|
I'm pretty sure defensive playing has always been a core part of the Team Fortress gameplay and not just a random thing that got thrown at the wall. It is Team Fortress after all. In pub play the engineers and medics effectively dictate the entire match. Medics control when pushes happen and engies control where they are forced to happen, and I don't think that aspect of the game is just something that's just stuck around because of grognards.
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 00:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 18:51 |
|
|
Well if they put the word Fortress there in the name, you can't argue with that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 00:32
|
|
|
ninjewtsu posted:DR spycicle enforcer should be the only way to play because then you're always using your gun and occasionally your melee, instead of the other way around Ambassador is the gun of kings. I mean sure a headshot only does like 100 damage compared to the much easier to get 70 or so the enforcer can get at close range, but whatever. It has the advantage of working at range, and the sound of a crit headshot completely ruins people's morale. Fantastic for taking care of a pyro that's making a beeline to you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 00:35
|
|
|
Remove scout he just a silly throwback the Unreal days of fps and I cant hit him
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 00:35
|
|
|
Reiley posted:Well if they put the word Fortress there in the name, you can't argue with that. And what's with all this mining in minecraft? And what is the deal with airline food in airport simulator???
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 00:36
|
|
|
Split TF2 into three games: one with only Soldiers, Demomen, and Medics. One consists entirely of Engineers, Spies, Snipers, and Heavies. The final mode has every class, but with a class limit of 1 except for unlimited Pyros and Scouts.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 00:38
|
|
|
ninjewtsu posted:I'm pretty sure defensive playing has always been a core part of the Team Fortress gameplay and not just a random thing that got thrown at the wall. It is Team Fortress after all. In pub play the engineers and medics effectively dictate the entire match. Medics control when pushes happen and engies control where they are forced to happen, and I don't think that aspect of the game is just something that's just stuck around because of grognards. I want to frame this post because it's the first time in 7 years I have seen the emphasis on Fortress and not Team.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 00:39
|
|
|
2Fort and Hightower are maps where nothing ever happens and this is TF2 as intended.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 01:10
|
|
|
I think Engineers are actually a good part of the game, having to defend a teleporter when on the attack/good sentry spots and dispensers when on defense is interesting.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 01:23
|
|
|
Irony Be My Shield posted:I think Engineers are actually a good part of the game, having to defend a teleporter when on the attack/good sentry spots and dispensers when on defense is interesting. I agree, I think dispensers and teleporters are a great feature and (mini)sentries are a logical extension to make support buildings a little less fragile. I just wish the emphasis was more on the support and less on the sentry, though. I've been thinking about what I'd like to see out of a Team Fortress 3, and I wish that full size sentries were pre-placed defensive features that could be repaired but not rebuilt, and engineers were strictly limited to (slightly nerfed) minisentries instead. I like the use of level 3 sentries as temporary speedbumps but against disorganized teams they too easily create stalemate situations.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 01:48
|
|
|
Any decent Australian servers kicking around?
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 04:41
|
|
|
bowmore posted:Any decent Australian servers kicking around? search for servers with tags 'smurfy' or 'nkh'.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 05:04
|
|
|
Gabriel Pope posted:I've been thinking about what I'd like to see out of a Team Fortress 3, and I wish that full size sentries were pre-placed defensive features that could be repaired but not rebuilt, and engineers were strictly limited to (slightly nerfed) minisentries instead. I like the use of level 3 sentries as temporary speedbumps but against disorganized teams they too easily create stalemate situations. The problem with that is that a spy could just run around the backfield while everyones on the front and destroy them all. Maybe if they were pop-up turrets or immune to sappers (probably a bad idea), or something. And if you're going to go with pre-placed defensive structures, there could be other things like walls/doors that block off flanking routes, or barricades you could hide behind until they explode. Not really sure how these things would fit into "The TF2 Experience," though. They sound out of place just thinking about them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 05:53
|
|
|
Gabriel Pope posted:I agree, I think dispensers and teleporters are a great feature and (mini)sentries are a logical extension to make support buildings a little less fragile. I just wish the emphasis was more on the support and less on the sentry, though. Even the most perfectly placed level 3 is only a speedbump to teams that have at least one non-retarded demoman or soldier kicking around. The issue is that there is no class limit and when you randomly distribute five sentries around a room that basically requires extreme coordination to ever deal with. Just jam a class limit of 1 or 2 on there and suddenly the issue has disappeared. And jesus christ, no, more minis is not anything the game needs.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 06:34
|
|
|
I was playing on a randomizer server today, and they've changed something since last time I played: if you spawn as an engineer and build buildings, those buildings will hang around even when you die and change class. And we were playing on dustbowl. The last control point on dustbowl 1 had 4 level 3 sentries, and the other team simply didn't have the loadouts or ubers to kill them. The only one repairing/upgrading the sentries was a demoman with a golden wrench, and there wasn't an actual engineer in sight.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 08:04
|
|
|
bowmore posted:Any decent Australian servers kicking around? Payload inc
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 11:04
|
|
|
Lobsterpillar posted:I was playing on a randomizer server today, and they've changed something since last time I played: if you spawn as an engineer and build buildings, those buildings will hang around even when you die and change class. That's a straight up atrocity, sentries have no place in randomizer.  Except if anyone could build them if they get the right item. and you have to have the wrench to upgrade. Even then, staying after class change is bull. edit: alternative acceptable clause: sentries fire randomised crap. look out for the flame and jarate sentry. This one shoots sandman balls! QwertySanchez fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Nov 16, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 11:31
|
|
|
I would play on a server modded so that sentries shoot sandman balls instead of bullets Maybe level 3s shoot jarate instead of missiles
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 11:59
|
|
|
QwertySanchez posted:That's a straight up atrocity, sentries have no place in randomizer. Sentries and dispensers with hats is one of the good things about randomizer. Spies spawning without a sapper is one of the bad things... although a spy did manage to flank me with a minigun.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 12:08
|
|
|
If you walk into Randomizer and expect not-bullshit then you are in the wrong server. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 13:04
|
|
|
My fondest memory of randomiser is spawning with the sticky jumper, gloves of running urgently (back when they used to deplete your health rather than just mark you for death) and the gunboats, and finding out that if the health tick killed me it counted as suiciding and made me respawn with the same loadout so I had to stand outside spawn completely still while a scout bobbed and weaved back and forth and kept completely missing me with everything he had until I finally got killed by a sniping engineer. Oh that and the time I was a spy with the cloak and dagger, a dalokohs bar and direct hit, and I could use the bar while cloaked. I murdered so many people.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 14:33
|
|
|
Teleporters are incredibly important, but they don't give nearly enough points, and it's hard to incentivize building good teleporters without giving a bunch of points to useless teleporters. Solution: if someone gets a kill while they've got the trailing footprints debuff, the Engineer gets a point.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 17:58
|
|
|
Teleporters give PLENTY of points. When I've managed to keep a L3 teleporter up on a 24-person pub game, I've topscored with 2/3 of those points coming from the nonstop stream of people taking the teleporter. The problem is that they're incredibly difficult to keep alive for very long. A typical pub server consists of a sea of newbies and 1-3 competent players per team. The competent players' movement isn't nearly as restricted as it should be: they can easily end up fighting deep past the front lines on a regular basis. So there's no "safe" place to put your exit -- anywhere you leave it is highly susceptible to being found by a wandering soldier or scout within a minute or two, after they've cleared out 3-4 of your teammates. So you can only build a teleporter exit if you intend to babysit it yourself, perhaps even building a sentry in the same location and never leaving that room. No thanks! Back when I played engineer a lot more, the answer to "why don't you have a teleporter up?" usually was "there was a teleporter but it was destroyed."
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 18:46
|
|
|
You don't just stick your tele down by your sentry? Why not? It actually makes it easier to get out and about and not be tethered to your sentry. the stream of people coming through ensures a 50% chance that when a demo comes by to demolish your sentry, there's going to be a scout or soldier just coming out to blast him in the face. And I mean that's where your sentry and dispenser are anyways, why not just throw the tele onto the junk pile? My order is usualy dispenser -> sentry -> tele -> upgrade sentry to level 3 -> upgrade dispenser to level 3 -> upgrade tele to level 3. It's the least reliable addition to your sentry nest when it comes to fighting off other players, but the value of that chance for a surprise pyro to pop out just before a spy starts sapping is too good to not bother putting a level 1 tele down in your nest at least
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 18:59
|
|
|
In a 24 person server, teleporting your entire team is worth 6 points, or 3 backstabs. e: the genesis of me thinking they score too low (never loving play Engineer) was a game where I hit my teleport record with 11, and realized I was on the bottom of the scoreboard. It's literally your most important asset; getting another player to the front is always better then (eg) a gun. The scoreboard doesn't reflect that at all. CoolCab fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Nov 16, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 19:02
|
|
|
ninjewtsu posted:You don't just stick your tele down by your sentry? You upgrade the dispenser before the tele? At least bring the teleporter to level 2 first, man.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 19:06
|
|
|
Yeah, in my experience a fully upgraded tele is a key factor in defending your nest, what with that constant stream of respawns coming through. Keep the dispenser nearby as well, both for your own metal source and to keep the team coming back for heals and ammo, which also adds to your defence. For me a sentry is a low priority compared to keeping a layer of ablative meat shielding around me at all times.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 19:17
|
|
|
Somebody make an ablative meat armour cosmetic.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 19:31
|
|
|
Tollymain posted:Somebody make an ablative meat armour cosmetic. base it on this 
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 19:33
|
|
|
Kelp Plankton posted:base it on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OVg8uov78I
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 19:35
|
|
|
ninjewtsu posted:You don't just stick your tele down by your sentry? I don't "nest" when I play engineer. I don't plop a sentry down and try to keep it at L3 in a single location for as long as possible. If you do that, then sure, that's a good spot for a teleporter exit. But that's the "sitting in the same location and never leaving that room. No thanks!" I mentioned -- boring as hell. If I'm going engineer, I'm either gunslinging, or building level 1's/2's as far forward as I can, to help push the enemy back. I hide dispensers around corners for my teammates, and since they build faster and cheaper than teleporters, they do some good before they inevitably blow up. I feel like this playstyle is far more effective and helpful than nesting (well, more effective at everything except keeping a teleporter up), and it's far more fun. Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Nov 16, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 19:51
|
|
|
Ditocoaf posted:I don't "nest" when I play engineer. I don't plop a sentry down and try to keep it at L3 in a single location for as long as possible. If you do that, then sure, that's a good spot for a teleporter exit. But that's the "sitting in the same location and never leaving that room. No thanks!" I mentioned -- boring as hell. None of your buildings are half as good as a good tele. A tele knocks 10+ seconds off the respawn timer. e: this is why it takes longer to build
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 19:54
|
|
|
CoolCab posted:None of your buildings are half as good as a good tele. A tele knocks 10+ seconds off the respawn timer. I'll build a teleporter when I'm playing with mostly competent players on both teams, because nobody on the other team is going to suddenly wipe out 5 of your teammates by themselves, so it's easier to figure out a "safe spot" for the exit. But public servers have a mix of highly-skilled players and masses of pubbies, which makes things too unknowable. But these days, I don't even play engineer anymore, I just go Scout if I want to shoot people up with a shotgun, which is most of the time. Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Nov 16, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 19:58
|
|
|
Ditocoaf posted:But these days, I don't even play engineer anymore, I just go Scout if I want to shoot people up with a shotgun, which is most of the time. There's your problem, Engineer is for when you want to run around shooting people with a pistol. Though one time there was a guy running around as Pistol-Only Scout and he was terrifyingly effective.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 20:06
|
|
|
Lobsterpillar posted:I was playing on a randomizer server today, and they've changed something since last time I played: if you spawn as an engineer and build buildings, those buildings will hang around even when you die and change class. I think that's always been the case, at least on the randomizer I play on. It's supposed to be "balanced" by the fact that you need to luck into a wrench or gunslinger to be able to upgrade stuff. Randomizer on non-koth/arena doesn't work very well though since you need to luck into being able to do something useful. QwertySanchez posted:My fondest memory of randomiser is spawning with the sticky jumper, gloves of running urgently (back when they used to deplete your health rather than just mark you for death) and the gunboats, and finding out that if the health tick killed me it counted as suiciding and made me respawn with the same loadout so I had to stand outside spawn completely still while a scout bobbed and weaved back and forth and kept completely missing me with everything he had until I finally got killed by a sniping engineer. One of the most fun runs I had was spawning as a scout with a caber and just kamikazeing into people with it, and cratering from fall damage to suicide and get the same loadout again
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 20:11
|
|
|
So it's been like over a year since I've played TF2. Every now and then, I hear what sounds like square dancing music off in the distance. Is that supposed to mean something?
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 20:23
|
|
|
Bluff Buster posted:So it's been like over a year since I've played TF2. Every now and then, I hear what sounds like square dancing music off in the distance. Is that supposed to mean something? You can buy custom taunts now, some of them have custom sountracks. I think there's a square dance one? Honestly most of the time you hear the conga.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 20:24
|
|
|
It means you need to find them and start dancing. Don't leave them waiting, that's totally rude. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 20:24
|
|
|
ninjewtsu posted:You don't just stick your tele down by your sentry? The teleporter might be the least reliable addition to your nest, but having a level 3 tele up for your team is often more important than your sentry or dispenser, and keeping it safe when the enemy team gets its poo poo together and busts your nest is worth hiding it a little further back. The risk is that someone will get clever and go sniffing around behind the lines for the lone teleporter exit, but in my experience that doesn't happen very often.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 20:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 18:51 |
|
|
Gabriel Pope posted:The teleporter might be the least reliable addition to your nest, but having a level 3 tele up for your team is often more important than your sentry or dispenser, and keeping it safe when the enemy team gets its poo poo together and busts your nest is worth hiding it a little further back. The risk is that someone will get clever and go sniffing around behind the lines for the lone teleporter exit, but in my experience that doesn't happen very often. This is a primary Scout role, btw. Hunt their teles, win game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2014 20:26
|
|