There is only one thing that matters and it is Jesus Christ

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > There is only one thing that matters and it is Jesus Christ

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My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

SedanChair posted:

So we have to judge Jews on their most venal representatives' interactions with the state as well?

Now you're beginning to understand how America is a Judeo-Christian nation, SedanChair. Good for you, I'm glad for you.

We judge everyone in accordance with a divinely inspired law, and separate the law from human hands through a series of institutional layers.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 20:03

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 16:15

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Crowsbeak posted:

I probably wouldn't be a Christian than. Of course than there would be no Christianity than.

Okay, you're still dodging around the question. What you said is that you support the law because it is required of Christians. What it appears now is that you are Christian because of the morality that (you feel) Christianity espouses; that if Christianity didn't encourage charity to the poor, you wouldn't be a Christian. What I'm suggesting is that you support the law not because your religion compels you, but because you, as a human being, think that it is good to be nice and sympathetic to other human beings.

To give perhaps a more apt example, biblical Christianity is silent on whether science education for children is a good thing, and in many ways condones gender inequalities. I think that education for children is good, and that we ought to pass laws supporting the education of children, including equal access for women. Do you think that education for children is good, and do you support laws establishing that we educate children?

# ? Nov 18, 2014 20:03

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

My Imaginary GF posted:

We judge everyone in accordance with a divinely inspired law, and separate the law from human hands through a series of institutional layers.

No, we don't. No, its not.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 20:06

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

My Imaginary GF posted:

Now you're beginning to understand how America is a Judeo-Christian nation, SedanChair. Good for you, I'm glad for you.

We judge everyone in accordance with a divinely inspired law, and separate the law from human hands through a series of institutional layers.

I am in fact sick of your politics bullshit. Many religious people throughout history have nothing to do with gross power brokers and viziers like yourself, who smell of perfumed oils. They use their mystical perspective to help others. Please don't try to piggyback onto it with your hollow-eyed killer's lack of morality and say "waannnn, this is what religion is!" It's what being a toady is.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 20:06

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Obdicut posted:

Okay, you're still dodging around the question. What you said is that you support the law because it is required of Christians. What it appears now is that you are Christian because of the morality that (you feel) Christianity espouses; that if Christianity didn't encourage charity to the poor, you wouldn't be a Christian. What I'm suggesting is that you support the law not because your religion compels you, but because you, as a human being, think that it is good to be nice and sympathetic to other human beings.

To give perhaps a more apt example, biblical Christianity is silent on whether science education for children is a good thing, and in many ways condones gender inequalities. I think that education for children is good, and that we ought to pass laws supporting the education of children, including equal access for women. Do you think that education for children is good, and do you support laws establishing that we educate children?

I do it for both reasons, and I support education because it can lead people to a better understanding of God and the creation of God, either through writing, or through science, also it allows a better understanding of our fellow humans, ensuring less conflict and therefore less warfare amongst God's creation.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 20:10

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Crowsbeak posted:

I do it for both reasons, and I support education because it can lead people to a better understanding of God and the creation of God, either through writing, or through science, also it allows a better understanding of our fellow humans, ensuring less conflict and therefore less warfare amongst God's creation.

I'd point out the push for creationism in schools and the massive backlash against proper science education in the South...

# ? Nov 18, 2014 20:12

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

My Imaginary GF posted:

Now you're beginning to understand how America is a Judeo-Christian nation, SedanChair. Good for you, I'm glad for you.

America is only Judeo-Christian because Hitler ruined calling one's nation just regular Christian.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 20:14

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Who What Now posted:

America is only Judeop-Christian because Hitler ruined calling one's nation just regular Christian.

Yes, Hitler was the ultimate outcome of having a purely christian nation. Hence you have to return to Judaic values of law originating from divine providence in order to avoid future hitlers.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 20:15

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Crowsbeak posted:

I do it for both reasons,

Okay. So, even if there wasn't a religoius command to do it, you would still do it, correct?

quote:

and I support education because it can lead people to a better understanding of God and the creation of God, either through writing, or through science, also it allows a better understanding of our fellow humans, ensuring less conflict and therefore less warfare amongst God's creation.

In general, education often leads people to conclude that there isn't a god, which throws a bit of a wrinkle into this.

You stated that your support for charity came from a religious instruction to be charitable--though you've now agreed that you also support this just out of your own decency as a human being. your response about edit:~~religion~~ education is different: you don't say that there is a specific instruction to educate the youth, but you claim that it will have positive religious-related effects. This is a different rationale than saying you're instructed to support the law because of religion, and speaks a lot more to your conception of god rather than some textual or dogmatic instruction by god.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 20:15

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

CommieGIR posted:

I'd point out the push for creationism in schools and the massive backlash against proper science education in the South...

TO which I would say they are idiots. I am not a biblical literalistic I do not believe that Noah had every species that ever existed in a frankly unbuildable ship, nor do I believe that human lived along with a t-rex that ate plants.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 20:16

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Crowsbeak posted:

TO which I would say they are idiots. I am not a biblical literalistic I do not believe that Noah had every species that ever existed in a frankly unbuildable ship, nor do I believe that human lived along with a t-rex that ate plants.

Cool. We're golden then, although I agree with Obdicut that education is not likely to support your stated views on it.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 20:17

burnishedfume: Mar 8, 2011; You really are a louse...

My Imaginary GF posted:

The more important question is, at what mood does it become ok to start, and how do you determine that mood is legal?

I'm pretty sure you determine what mood is legal by consulting your local laws, which are derived from secular logic and ethics? What a silly question.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 20:20

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

My Imaginary GF posted:

Yes, Hitler was the ultimate outcome of having a purely christian nation. Hence you have to return to Judaic values of law originating from divine providence in order to avoid future hitlers.

No, you just pretend not to hate Jews while giving money to Israel. See: Republican policy for the last four decades.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 20:22

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Crossposting a bit, but:

SpiderHyphenMan posted:

A better analogy would be if someone walks into a championship tournament, says "GEE I THINK I MAY HAVE TRANSCENDED THE UNDERSTANDING OF SOME OF YOU GRANDMASTERS HERE, WANT TO JOIN MY NEW SCHOOL OF CHESS STRATEGY?", then loses by scholar's mate twice in the first round.

This person then refuses to leave his seat, claiming that he needs additional proof that the queen in f7 actually ontologically exists before he will admit defeat, and that the rules of the CHESS ESTABLISHMENT were unfairly biased against him by disallowing the possibility of his king being able to leapfrog pieces.

Then he pulls out an ancient shopping list from 1905 and claims that "1. Eggs" means 'The King', "2. Butter" means 'can', and "3. Milk" means 'leapfrog'. This is admissible evidence for his case because he has lived according to the dictates of this list since he was a teenager, and it has drastically improved his quality of life. When the referees tell him that this makes no loving sense, he drags them into a three hour debate over the precise meaning of the words 'makes', 'no', 'loving', and 'sense'.

When people point out that there is more than enough evidence to suggest his list is just a scrap of paper from some long-dead housewife's purse, he rather proudly points out how close-minded they are in dismissing outright the possibility that the list was in fact a secret coded message on the best way to live life, originally formulated by Atlanteans and passed down through the ages disguised as everyday documents. After all, if one starts with the presupposition that such a document exists, then it would be very fair to argue that it is indeed in the form of his shopping list.

Never mind that his previous interpretations of the list led to three convictions and time served for robbery, hate crimes, and murder. These were just unfortunate misinterpretations on his part of the list's true intentions, he says. The list itself is blameless. In fact, the Atlanteans deliberately obfuscated the true meaning of the list in this way, so that it would require multiple failed misinterpretations before one would happen across its TRUE meaning, and in doing so appreciate it all the more.

In fact, he does have some evidence to back up his claims. Why, just last week during his daily meditation on the list, he felt it telling him that something good was about to happen in his future. And yesterday, wouldn't you know it, he found a twenty dollar note on the sidewalk! Evidence of the list's prophetic powers if I ever saw one. And believe him, he has many more stories where that came from.

By now, the debate has splintered off into innumerable tangents, with the one man against literally every other player and referee present at the tournament. Finally, he graciously accepts the possibility of defeat in some of the myriad topics now being covered. OK, maybe the tallest player doesn't always get to go first. Fine, I will concede that there isn't much evidence to support my third-invisible-knight hypothesis. But that's all irrelevant. What he wants to concentrate on, and what nobody has yet been able to disprove, he adds, is the ability of the king to leapfrog over other pieces.

The argument drags on for weeks. Finally, one afternoon, the beet-faced referee exhausts his last reserves of decency and throws his arms up in frustration and despair. "YOU loving RETARD, HOW CAN YOU LAY CLAIM TO KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT CHESS STRATEGY WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN GRASP THE MOST BASIC RULES!?" He shouts, just as a new entrant walks through the door. "I'm sorry," replies the man calmly, "I simply cannot discuss the rules of chess with such an 'official' if you insist on using such strong and uncouth language. Please retract your insults or I will be forced to plug my ears whenever you say anything from now on."

Seeing only this last exchange, the new entrant pipes up. "He's right, you know. If he did something wrong, then you as the referee have every right to tell him he is so, but it should be done with a patient and thorough explanation of the details of his error. Hurling ridicule at him solves nothing and won't change anyone's mind."

The lazy eye of the retarded List-following, King-leapfrogging man twitches almost unnoticeably, as he cranes his head towards the source of this new voice. A welcoming smile cracks, inch by beaming inch, across his face. He licks his lips. He clears his throat.

"So glad to know decent people like you still value a polite discussion. Care for a game?"

Thus, Christianity and Islam.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 21:26

Polygynous: Dec 13, 2006; welp

pretty sure that was originally written about victor so I'm not sure what your point is

e: forgot which variety of crazy you were, I guess it's appropriate then, carry on.

Polygynous fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Nov 18, 2014

# ? Nov 18, 2014 21:33

burnishedfume: Mar 8, 2011; You really are a louse...

Thread, should I be Episcopalian, Presbyterian or stay with the One True Faith? On the one hand, these other faiths aren't true and so I'll go to hell, but on the other, women priests and gays seem pretty cool and I want a church where we can all come together and get a gay abortion.

E: Wait, the One True Faith believes in works over faith, I can even be a dirty God-believing Atheist and go to heaven! :angel:

# ? Nov 18, 2014 21:43

Captain Mog: Jun 17, 2011

I'm a gay Catholic who is engaged to another man. What is your opinion of me, OP? And what do you think of Pope Francis's efforts to make the Church more welcoming to LGBT people?

Oh and also, just so everyone knows, the Catholic church is quite possibly the single largest Christian denomination that is most open to science. The Big Bang Theory was actually proposed by a priest. Just sayin

Captain Mog fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Nov 18, 2014

# ? Nov 18, 2014 21:56

Colonel J: Jan 3, 2008

There are many people raised in religion who turn irreligious later in their life. Are there documented cases of the opposite, i.e. people who grow up irreligious and decide later to start following a religion?

# ? Nov 18, 2014 22:04

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Colonel J posted:

There are many people raised in religion who turn irreligious later in their life. Are there documented cases of the opposite, i.e. people who grow up irreligious and decide later to start following a religion?

Millions. Those are usually the folks who go all ISIS and extremist.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 22:06

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Colonel J posted:

There are many people raised in religion who turn irreligious later in their life. Are there documented cases of the opposite, i.e. people who grow up irreligious and decide later to start following a religion?

Do people who grew up in state atheist countries who decided to actually follow a religion afterwards count?

# ? Nov 18, 2014 22:08

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

My Imaginary GF posted:

Millions. Those are usually the folks who go all ISIS and extremist.

Um......no, most of them were already religious to some degree. You should probably cite something to support that.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 22:08

burnishedfume: Mar 8, 2011; You really are a louse...

Colonel J posted:

There are many people raised in religion who turn irreligious later in their life. Are there documented cases of the opposite, i.e. people who grow up irreligious and decide later to start following a religion?

I've done some research in my lab and have determined through empirical proof that it can happen.

For real though, here's a list of some documented cases http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_converts_to_Christianity_from_nontheism

It does cheat though and include people who are raised one religion, drift away from it, and then come to Catholicism later. There are some though that are born and raised atheists that become Christian later.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 22:12

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

Colonel J posted:

There are many people raised in religion who turn irreligious later in their life. Are there documented cases of the opposite, i.e. people who grow up irreligious and decide later to start following a religion?

Sure, sometimes I thought "I should just be a Catholic, that's where modern values all come from anyway." Then I saw what kind of positions it puts you in. Can't I just be a Jesuit?

# ? Nov 18, 2014 22:23

Captain_Maclaine: Sep 30, 2001; Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

spoon0042 posted:

pretty sure that was originally written about victor so I'm not sure what your point is

It was, and the original author was hurrrr².

# ? Nov 18, 2014 22:47

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

SedanChair posted:

Sure, sometimes I thought "I should just be a Catholic, that's where modern values all come from anyway." Then I saw what kind of positions it puts you in. Can't I just be a Jesuit?

You can be anything you want if you just believe in yourself.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 23:02

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

Who What Now posted:

You can be anything you want if you just believe in yourself.

I want to be a skeleton

# ? Nov 18, 2014 23:16

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Sounds like "God" is a bit of a dickhead and needs a kicking. With the light of science we can one day build a big enough gun to shoot "Gods" gay little face off.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 23:29

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

Mister Adequate posted:

I want to be a skeleton

You will definitely be a skeleton. I thought this was the whole problem to begin with.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 23:30

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Regarde Aduck posted:

Sounds like "God" is a bit of a dickhead and needs a kicking. With the light of science we can one day build a big enough gun to shoot "Gods" gay little face off.

STV showed all you need is a photon torpedo.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 23:31

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

SedanChair posted:

You will definitely be a skeleton. I thought this was the whole problem to begin with.

No see, people always say that, but I want to be a skeleton right now and carry on with everyone else pretty much as normal.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 23:54

D1Sergo: May 5, 2006; Be sure to take a 15-minute break every hour.

Mister Adequate posted:

I want to be a skeleton

Someone with that "SJW -> Skeleton" filter is probably confused right now.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 23:56

Ninjasaurus: Feb 11, 2014; This is indeed a disturbing universe.

This thread has brought us so very close to the dream of having a pure 1-on-1 debate between SedanChair and ~~My Imaginary GF~~ Rahm Emmanuel and I'm loving every minute of it. :allears:

# ? Nov 19, 2014 00:55

rudatron: May 31, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

America isn't a judeo-christian nation, and in fact, states that are based on religion tend to be really loving lovely.

# ? Nov 19, 2014 03:37

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

rudatron posted:

America isn't a judeo-christian nation, and in fact, states that are based on religion tend to be really loving lovely.

They'd certainly like to think they are, and adding 'Under God/In God We Trust' in the 40's and 50's didn't help.

# ? Nov 19, 2014 03:50

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Look at all those SJWs

# ? Nov 19, 2014 04:07

Captain Mog: Jun 17, 2011

McDowell posted:

Look at all those SJWs

Is there anywhere I could like read arguments between social justice warriors and fundamentalist Republican Christians? That sounds like the best thing ever.

# ? Nov 19, 2014 04:20

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Captain Mog posted:

I'm a gay Catholic who is engaged to another man. What is your opinion of me, OP?

Hell.

Captain Mog posted:

And what do you think of Pope Francis's efforts to make the Church more welcoming to LGBT people?

Antipope.

Captain Mog posted:

Oh and also, just so everyone knows, the Catholic church is quite possibly the single largest Christian denomination that is most open to science. The Big Bang Theory was actually proposed by a priest. Just sayin

Antipopes all of them. That's when the rot started.

# ? Nov 19, 2014 05:42

Bwee: Jul 1, 2005

Where the gently caress is the OP and why hasn't he told me if he can cast a spell

# ? Nov 19, 2014 06:37

ShadowCatboy: Jan 22, 2006; by FactsAreUseless

Crowsbeak posted:

Alright this is a serious question for atheists here, could someone explain why quite a few atheists seem to be drawn to the Jesus Mythers? The people who maintain Jesus was made up by the Gospel writers rather than one of many first century speakers in Judea murdered by the Romans for being a possible threat to their domination?

Well, it really depends on what exactly you mean by "Jesus Mythers." Even disregarding all the magic and miracles, there is little to no evidence for a historical Jesus that most Christians would recognize. While there was no doubt a historical figure (or multiple figures) who would over time become the Biblical character known as Jesus Christ, there isn't much historical data outside of the Bible to indicate that events went down as dramatically as described in the Gospels.

"Jesus" as is popularly conceived can probably be likened to Johnny Appleseed or Paul Bunyan... a historical figure was the seed for the myth, but the details ballooned out of proportion to what is likely to have happened historically.

# ? Nov 19, 2014 07:15

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 16:15

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Yeshua was a pretty common Judean name. I'm willing to believe that there was someone named Yeshua around in first-century Judea.

# ? Nov 19, 2014 07:35

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