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My Imaginary GF posted:Are you saying that if Israeli authorities allowed everyone in Israel free access to the temple mount, it wouldn't result in a lot of blood spilled? thats exactly what hes saying, great job
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Nov 19, 2014 03:22
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My Imaginary GF posted:Are you saying that if Israeli authorities allowed everyone in Israel free access to the temple mount, it wouldn't result in a lot of blood spilled? What the gently caress does that have to do with your spiel about 'Nation states existing to deprive their citizens of liberty'. Nothing. But, no, the oppressive government probably shouldn't be oppressive. Which, by the way, suggesting segregation is necessary through action of the oppressive government (the bigger man) pretty much invalidates most of your cheer-leading. My Imaginary GF posted:Israel does plenty of wrong. Nation-states exist to deprive individuals of absolute liberty, for absolute liberty is anarchy. The question is, why is Israel held to a higher standard in its wrongs than other states in the world, much less the region?  "Israel get's so picked on and they don't know why, doesn't the world remember our suffering in the Holocaust? They must just hate jews"
CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 03:23
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Don't you understand the danger of letting Muslims pray to their god too close to the shrine of power? The Dragon Ball will float right out and they'll put it in their knapsack.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:24
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CommieGIR posted:What the gently caress does that have to do with your spiel about 'Nation states existing to deprive their citizens of liberty'. Nothing. But, no, the oppressive government probably shouldn't be oppressive. Sometimes, oppression is necessary. Democratic nations exist to ensure that a population has some say in determining when those times are necessary, and to make oppression about more than "gently caress you give me what I want," where what you want could be anything. SedanChair posted:Don't you understand the danger of letting Muslims pray to their god too close to the shrine of power? The Dragon Ball will float right out and they'll put it in their knapsack. More like, "Suicide bombings at the Wailing Wall would be very bad. So, too, would be hasidic mobs tearing down the dome of the rock."
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Nov 19, 2014 03:25
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My Imaginary GF posted:Sometimes, oppression is necessary. Democratic nations exist to ensure that a population has some say in determining when those times are necessary, and to make oppression about more than "gently caress you give me what I want," where what you want could be anything. That isn't oppression. You are comparing community moral and social obligations of criminal code to, say, walling people in a giant gently caress off ghetto and embargoing life sustaining necessities. Having your home/town/farm demolished makes you the oppressed. It is in no way comparable to allowing anarchy by not enforcing the law. You think it makes you sound intellectual, when it just makes you sound really petty.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:27
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My Imaginary GF posted:More like, "Suicide bombings at the Wailing Wall would be very bad. So, too, would be hasidic mobs tearing down the dome of the rock." both sides having equal culpability and power in the israel/palestine conflict,
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Nov 19, 2014 03:27
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TEAYCHES posted:both sides having equal culpability and power in the israel/palestine conflict, Fine. If you want to make it unequal, only jews at wailing wall and hasidim are free to do what they want on the temple mount. That's the alternative policy option available to state-enforced segregation. Do you want that? Is that what you would like to see?
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Nov 19, 2014 03:29
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TEAYCHES posted:both sides having equal culpability and power in the israel/palestine conflict, I mean, at this point, to justify his really poor comparison: The actions of the Israelis against the Palestinians is like if there was a school shooting in Alabama by a black kid, so they wall in New Orleans and start bombing it, despite there being no other connection other than culture or color. Its a really bad comparison. My Imaginary GF posted:That's the alternative policy option available to state-enforced segregation. Do you want that? Is that what you would like to see? Or, and this is just me, they could NOT segregate a people that lived there prior to them establishing their state  You are loving justifying the oppressors. You are literally victim blaming because there was an unconnected crime carried out.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:30
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My Imaginary GF posted:Fine. If you want to make it unequal, only jews at wailing wall and hasidim are free to do what they want on the temple mount. maybe if you are looking at the conflict through a telescope where this single incident is the best way to consider the i/p conflict
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Nov 19, 2014 03:31
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hint: its not actually about the temple mount/al aqsa.. its a symptom... to ~*~*~a deeper cause~*~*~.. a long and storied history.....
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Nov 19, 2014 03:32
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CommieGIR posted:I mean, at this point, to justify his really poor comparison: If the protestors in Ferguson begin launching homemade rockets at Clayton, and refused to police themselves and shot at anyone coming in to disarm them, you'd see one hell of a response. TEAYCHES posted:hint: its not actually about the temple mount/al aqsa.. its a symptom... to ~*~*~a deeper cause~*~*~.. a long and storied history..... Of religious heresies deviating from obediance to the laws of god?
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Nov 19, 2014 03:33
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My Imaginary GF posted:If the protestors in Ferguson begin launching homemade rockets at Clayton, and refused to police themselves and shot at anyone coming in to disarm them, you'd see one hell of a response.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:34
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My Imaginary GF posted:If the protestors in Ferguson begin launching homemade rockets at Clayton, and refused to police themselves and shot at anyone coming in to disarm them, you'd see one hell of a response. What, the B-52s would warm up and carpet bomb them? The Israeli's are the bigger man. In a deep set of irony, the POLICE in Ferguson are supposed to be the bigger man too, and they haven't been Seriously, you are really bad at this.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:34
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My Imaginary GF posted:Of religious heresies deviating from obediance to the laws of god? so like did you read sam harris' new book yesterday or what (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 19, 2014 03:35
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My Imaginary GF posted:Of religious heresies deviating from obediance to the laws of god? Yes, this is all about the Jews and their religious stance. Nothing to do with that segregation you mentioned. Or the air strikes, ghetto, land theft, settlements, embargo, etc. etc. etc. Like I said, you are really bad at this.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:36
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By the way if anyone wants an actually good OP, PM me materials that would be relevant for it, like a primer on the history of the conflict or relevant international humanitarian law provisions or whatever else that is a useful lens for understanding the current unrest so there can be a happy, informed debate. I will not put the Netanyahu cartoon bomb image since that presentation was done in reference to Iran, not Palestine. namaste
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Nov 19, 2014 03:38
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CommieGIR posted:What, the B-52s would warm up and carpet bomb them? First you send in state guard with authorization to use force. If that fails, you send in the army; if that fails, you wall off the area; if that fails, you continue targeted strikes in response to any continued attacks; if that fails, you cut off the food, water, and sustinance utilities to the area; if that fails, you level the neighborhood and show the world your shame for having to use the M108 when you came bearing an olive branch as a viable alternative.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:39
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My Imaginary GF posted:First you send in state guard with authorization to use force. If that fails, you send in the army; if that fails, you wall off the area; if that fails, you continue targeted strikes in response to any continued attacks; if that fails, you cut off the food, water, and sustinance utilities to the area; if that fails, you level the neighborhood and show the world your shame for having to use the M108 when you came bearing an olive branch as a viable alternative. What loving Olive branch has Israel offered? Please, enlighten us. They've basically demonstrated that its either settlements and land seizures or nothing. Where do you get this load of garbage?
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Nov 19, 2014 03:40
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CommieGIR posted:The dog whistle anti-sematism suggestion is really getting old. But they are an oppressive apartheid colonial power, not it has nothing to do with their religion, but they sure do love using their religion as a bat over everyone's heads whenever criticized. You seem to have the reference backwards, C.G. Dog whistling isn't used to describe criticism of bigotry but its covert usage. If dog whistle racism is talking about "welfare queens" instead of blacks explicitly directly but still conveying a message of hatred to those predisposed to hear it, dog whistle anti-semitism would therefore be railing against the "Zionists" while really attacking Jews. The metaphor you seem to want is the old  favorite, the "race card". I guess that would make it a "Jew card"? For example: compare "those lie-beral commies playing the race card are the real racists" to "those hasbara playing the Jew card are the real anti-semites". Fits much better than your usage, I think.CommieGIR posted:Oh good, Insect Court is here. Yes, excellent, you're really starting to understanding the deep connection here. Just as insists that "reverse racism" is a vastly greater problem than actual racism, the equivalent opinion as expressed in regards to anti-semitism would be that bigotry and violence by Jews is a vastly greater problem than anti-semitism.
The Insect Court fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 03:40
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wasnt todays attack carried out by some insane leninist sect called the popular front for liberation nah but its just.. these religions!! man.. they are crazy, why are they fighting??? religion is a hosed up thing imo
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Nov 19, 2014 03:41
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Oh good, Insect Court is here. Its why I emphasized, however it is used in a sort of dog whistle fashion: Accuse others of bigotry or anti-sematism while yourselves practicing bigotry.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:41
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MIGF thinks Israel was created as the result of a 2000 year long strategy and the Palestinians should adopt a similar 'approach'.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:42
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TEAYCHES posted:wasnt todays attack carried out by some insane leninist sect called the popular front for liberation get out of here with your "facts" we're trying to justify collective punishment here
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Nov 19, 2014 03:43
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israel is completely willing to stop expanding settlements if
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Nov 19, 2014 03:43
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Panzeh posted:MIGF thinks Israel was created as the result of a 2000 year long strategy and the Palestinians should adopt a similar 'approach'. If their cause is truly about something more than earthly hatreds and desires, it will survive the test of time. TEAYCHES posted:israel is completely willing to stop expanding settlements if ...no Arab attack is carried out against Israel for 2 election cycles.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:44
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TEAYCHES posted:israel is completely willing to stop expanding settlements if The Olive branch is that they will bulldoze your town more SLOWLY. And without airstrikes. My Imaginary GF posted:If their cause is truly about something more than earthly hatreds and desires, it will survive the test of time. Get. Help.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:44
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My Imaginary GF posted:If their cause is truly about something more than earthly hatreds and desires, it will survive the test of time. makes u think
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Nov 19, 2014 03:44
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My Imaginary GF posted:...no Arab attack is carried out against Israel for 2 election cycles. Ha. Great of you to bring this up: This DID happen. And the Palestinians (and ironically Hamas) kept to their bargain under the assumption that Israel would lift the embargo of the Gaza Strip. Rocket attacks went from common to nothing, which was not only surprising, it was unheard of considering Hamas normally being unwilling to work with the Palestinian Authority. Guess who didn't hold up their end of the bargain, and MIGHT be why the Palestinians don't exactly trust the Israeli governments promises?
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Nov 19, 2014 03:47
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israel is just building and expanding settlements as a bargaining chip to stop palestinian aggression?? thats pretty hosed up if true, arent they putting their own ppl in danger if they are just doing it to try and achieve peace? i mean in a world where defending against ppl colonizing your land is aggression.. the world we live in... its crazy as heck (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 19, 2014 03:51
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TEAYCHES posted:israel is just building and expanding settlements as a bargaining chip to stop palestinian aggression?? thats pretty hosed up if true, arent they putting their own ppl in danger if they are just doing it to try and achieve peace? Nice town there, be ashame if we bulldozed it and built our own...which we're going to do anyways.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:52
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Maybe you should stop continually advocating, defending, and rationalizing an ongoing series of war crimes being committed by the apartheid state of Israel. Just a thought.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:52
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My Imaginary GF posted:If their cause is truly about something more than earthly hatreds and desires, it will survive the test of time. I think we've gone full circle from moralism to faux-realism back to moralism.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:52
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Classyquote:Shortly before 6 P.M. on Tuesday, Israeli media outlets received emails containing six pictures from the scene of the massacre in the Jerusalem synagogue. Four of the photos contained difficult images of bloodied prayer shawls and prayer books, but two were particularly gruesome, showing the bodies of two of victims. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.627257
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Nov 19, 2014 03:52
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They are looking to get something out of this. I don't know what...they can't possibly take large scale action from this. The Palestinian Authority already denounced it. The group that could be connected to it is so small the only way to get them is small scale action...
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Nov 19, 2014 03:53
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My Imaginary GF posted:If their cause is truly about something more than earthly hatreds and desires, it will survive the test of time. Are you on some mission to prove how big of a moron you are to D&D?
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Nov 19, 2014 03:53
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He's on a divine mission from the war god Yahweh to show the world the supremacy of the tribe of Israel.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:56
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CommieGIR posted:They are looking to get something out of this. I don't know what...they can't possibly take large scale action from this. If only. Here's how it will probably go: Israelis demonstrate, a few palestinians get killed. Palestine retaliates, fires a few rockets, maybe kills a few more Israelis. Israel uses large scale action. It will definitely allow them one more pass from Europe (allowing at least one more large scale action,) despite talks of Europe wanting to crack down on them. Sudden Loud Noise fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 03:58
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Sudden Loud Noise posted:If only. True. Can always count on Hamas for ill-fated rocket demonstrations.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:59
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Sudden Loud Noise posted:If only. I think if you replaced "Europeans" with "anti-Semites," you'll be closer to the talking points.
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Nov 19, 2014 04:01
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My Imaginary GF posted:I think if you replaced "Europeans" with "anti-Semites," you'll be closer to the talking points. down with slavery posted:Are you on some mission to prove how big of a moron you are to D&D?
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Nov 19, 2014 04:03
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