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My Imaginary GF posted:Yes, they are, and yes, they do, as much as if not more than Israel. If you think America gives away anything for free, you're wrong; sometimes, America will discount exports and provide them at-cost. At worst, we'll intervene when non-intervention threatens to show us video of starving and dying children in the street, or when it will impact our broader interests. Usually, Americans on this board don't pay attention to those, yet pay disproportionate attention to Israel. The others also don't lead to huge blowback, which being the obedient boytoy of Israel does. Also I really do want us to require these clients to be more moral than they currently are.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:52
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Zeitgueist posted:Israel isn't the worst regime that the USA has supported. It's just pretty bad. because there are no good solutions to the I/P conflict, so its a matter of promoting the least-worst policies and living with their results. Crowsbeak posted:The others also don't lead to huge blowback, which being the obedient boytoy of Israel does. Also I really do want us to require these clients to be more moral than they currently are. There is tremendous blowback against American interests. If you think this weeks' mosque raids and ethnic strife in Kenya won't have American blowback, you're not familiar with the situation.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:53
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My Imaginary GF posted:because there are no good solutions to the I/P conflict, so its a matter of promoting the least-worst policies and living with their results. There are good solutions, actually.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:54
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My Imaginary GF posted:because there are no good solutions to the I/P conflict, so its a matter of promoting the least-worst policies and living with their results. There are plenty of good solutions to the I/P conflict that won't be pursued because people like you are morons.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:54
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My Imaginary GF posted:There are no justifications. Everyone in the region is poo poo. Israel happens to be slightly less poo poo to Americans than others, so you have widespread American support for Israel. That's peculiar, you claim Americans support the Israelis more than the Palestinians because the Israelis are "less poo poo" to Americans but oddly enough Palestinians don't seem to be any sort of poo poo to Mexicans or Brazilians. I propose to your consideration that the reason Palestinians are "more poo poo" to Americans than the Israelis is because America supports the Israelis in their fight against the Palestinians. I know this whole "cause" and "effect" and "arrow of time" is crazy hard but there just might be something to my idea if you think about it.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:55
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My Imaginary GF posted:because there are no good solutions to the I/P conflict, so its a matter of promoting the least-worst policies and living with their results. wait how is that a response to what I just typed?
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Nov 19, 2014 19:56
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Israel doesn't have the luxury of avoiding criticism because they actually have a unified right wing government that pedals the interests of the public that elected them: Likud. You cannot equivocate Hamas to Fatah or the PLO or any other faction in Palestine. Stop pretending that the Palestinians have a unified consensus on Israel. It's so goddamn dishonest. You've been grasping at straws searching for this consensus this whole thread MIGF.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:56
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I'm pretty sure grasping at straws is kinda MGIF's gimmick.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:58
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down with slavery posted:I'm pretty sure grasping at straws is kinda MGIF's gimmick. Number of Israeli imams that are known to have been 'disappeared' by Israel to American torture sites this week: Yet many here think America cares about something more than its interests and securing business.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:02
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My Imaginary GF posted:Number of Israeli imams that are known to have been 'disappeared' by Israel to American torture sites this week: A good faith argument, right here 
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Nov 19, 2014 20:03
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My Imaginary GF posted:Yet many here think America cares about something more than its interests and securing business. Haha no that's exactly what we think America cares about.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:03
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My Imaginary GF posted:Number of Israeli imams that are known to have been 'disappeared' by Israel to American torture sites this week: No I think most people who regularly post in D&D have long come to terms with how lovely the American government can be. That's why they want it to change you dense moron.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:04
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My Imaginary GF posted:Number of Israeli imams that are known to have been 'disappeared' by Israel to American torture sites this week: How about preventing destabilizing an entire region? First time America intervened on the Israel issue was when they threatened to use nukes. Furthermore , Israel is a toxic asset to anyone wants positive foreign policy. The Obama Administration knows that
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Nov 19, 2014 20:05
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Zeitgueist posted:Haha no that's exactly what we think America cares about. What policy options are realistic to deal with the current intifada which do not impede upon those considerations?
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Nov 19, 2014 20:06
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Job Truniht posted:How about preventing destabilizing an entire region? First time America intervened on the Israel issue was when they threatened to use nukes. Furthermore , Israel is a toxic asset to anyone wants positive foreign policy. The Obama Administration knows that You brought up nukes. MIGF will now tell you about his wonderful plan to nuke Iran. My Imaginary GF posted:What policy options are realistic to deal with the current intifada which do not impede upon those considerations? Oh, I don't know, not giving the Israeli Government weapons and aid because they are not very good allies?
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Nov 19, 2014 20:06
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My Imaginary GF posted:What policy options are realistic to deal with the current intifada which do not impede upon those considerations? You're making a stupid argument here. Nobody is thinking the US will actually resolve this conflict, but it definitely could. The fact that it also supports other lovely regimes is irrelevant to the discussion, or the fact that this will likely not get better any time soon because of political realities. It's an atrocious situation and deserves discussion. You're not presenting a new or interesting argument and I don't even really get your point.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:08
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CommieGIR posted:You brought up nukes. MIGF will now tell you about his wonderful plan to nuke Iran. Iranian acquisition of nuclear weapons is unacceptable to American policy, and will be prevented by force when necessary. As for the latter, that impedes upon American interests and business, therefore is unrealistic. What other proposals do you have? Zeitgueist posted:You're not presenting a new or interesting argument and I don't even really get your point. Nor do these threads present any realistic policy alternatives for managing the current situation.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:08
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CommieGIR posted:You brought up nukes. MIGF will now tell you about his wonderful plan to nuke Iran Iran? Where's Cefte when you need him?
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Nov 19, 2014 20:09
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He has no point, he's a goddamn idiot who just posts stream of consciousness bullshit without putting half a thought into it.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:10
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My Imaginary GF posted:Iranian acquisition of nuclear weapons is unacceptable to American policy, and will be prevented by force when necessary. Shut the hell up, and please stop posting bad faith arguments and Clancy chat in the thread, you are going to get it locked again.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:10
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My Imaginary GF posted:Iranian acquisition of nuclear weapons is unacceptable to American policy, and will be prevented by force when necessary. American policy is not eternal, and American interests and businesses are too diverse for the US to do anything without impeding on them in some way, so the correct answer is to go gently caress yourself.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:10
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Effectronica posted:American policy is not eternal, and American interests and businesses are too diverse for the US to do anything without impeding on them in some way, so the correct answer is to go gently caress yourself. Yes, I think you've made a good assessment of American policy towards Palestinians.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:12
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JeffersonClay posted:So you think the only possible resistance is indiscriminate rocket attacks and rabbi-cleaving? I'm not suggesting palestinians should sit around doing nothing, I'm suggesting that random violence directed at the most sympathetic Israelis is counterproductive. I think the world's attention span is so crazy short that nobody will be talking about this one attack in a year, and if it slides into a bigger conflict, all anyone will remember is "Oh yeah, they were being assholes again and a bunch of people died, mostly Palestinians." I mean nobody gives a poo poo about those three kids that got killed anymore, the ensuing demolition of Gaza stays longer in memory though. So they will not really matter in the long run. Maybe even hasten it because Israel doesn't even pretend to respond proportionally anymore.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:13
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My Imaginary GF posted:Iranian acquisition of nuclear weapons is unacceptable to American policy, and will be prevented by force when necessary. I don't think anyone disagrees that America's foreign policy on Iran is this. The fact that it's bad policy is for another thread. quote:As for the latter, that impedes upon American interests and business, therefore is unrealistic. What other proposals do you have? Look, we've got a world where "American interests and business" is god, we want to move away from that because of issues like the I/P conflict (not to mention climate change, healthcare, economic inequality, etc)
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Nov 19, 2014 20:13
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Shut the gently caress up already, you horrific parody of a human being. Edit: I meant MIGF.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:14
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My Imaginary GF posted:Iranian acquisition of nuclear weapons is unacceptable to American policy, and will be prevented by force when necessary. Why is it unnaceptable? American policy should be to let the Middle East solve its own problems, we don't need the oil anyways and as long as the Suez stay open I don't see why we should be conscerned.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:15
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My Imaginary GF posted:Yes, I think you've made a good assessment of American policy towards Palestinians. down with slavery posted:Are you on some mission to prove how big of a moron you are to D&D?
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Nov 19, 2014 20:15
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Crowsbeak posted:Why is it unnaceptable? American policy should be to let the Middle East solve its own problems, we don't need the oil anyways and as long as the Suez stay open I don't see why we should be conscerned. Because 'solve its own problems' results in genocide. For better or worse, Americans are firmly against photogenic genocides.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:16
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What's interesting is that people are automatically disclaiming that Israel wants peace. Not universally, but nobody assumes that settlers attacking Palestinians are trying to make peace or talks about how this moves things away from peace. This only really makes sense if you believe that Israel is completely hostile to peace or the idea of it.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:17
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My Imaginary GF posted:Because 'solve its own problems' results in genocide. For better or worse, Americans are firmly against photogenic genocides. Yes, god forbid we allow genocide to happen. Instead, let's genocide the Palestinians until they can't genocide back. Surely this is a winning strategy. Effectronica posted:What's interesting is that people are automatically disclaiming that Israel wants peace. Not universally, but nobody assumes that settlers attacking Palestinians are trying to make peace or talks about how this moves things away from peace. This only really makes sense if you believe that Israel is completely hostile to peace or the idea of it. I'd imagine, much like the US, there are a great deal of Israelis who are disgusted at their Government's actions. Israel the state as it is now, with the politicians they have, is not interested in peace. Can that change in the future? Sure.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:18
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What I find interesting in this thread is how MIGF get's dog piled over and over and still thinks his argument is somehow valid. Obviously its divinely inspired.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:19
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Effectronica posted:What's interesting is that people are automatically disclaiming that Israel wants peace. Not universally, but nobody assumes that settlers attacking Palestinians are trying to make peace or talks about how this moves things away from peace. This only really makes sense if you believe that Israel is completely hostile to peace or the idea of it. Our government of the last several years has definitely done everything in its power to make sure that peace isn't an option. I don't think our generation will ever see peace here barring some freak, history changing occurrence.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:19
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down with slavery posted:Yes, god forbid we allow genocide to happen. Instead, let's genocide the Palestinians until they can't genocide back. Surely this is a winning strategy. Doflamingo posted:Our government of the last several years has definitely done everything in its power to make sure that peace isn't an option. I don't think our generation will ever see peace here barring some freak, history changing occurrence. I'm talking more about a rhetorical shift. People are (not universally) abandoning the idea that Israel wants peace, which is probably not all that positive in the long run, more realistic though it be.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:20
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CommieGIR posted:What I find interesting in this thread is how MIGF get's dog piled over and over and still thinks his argument is somehow valid. I'm eagerly awaiting some posts about "the D&D hivemind"
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Nov 19, 2014 20:20
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down with slavery posted:I'm eagerly awaiting some posts about "the D&D hivemind" Its like the 'Shills/Sheeple' argument from Anti-GMO/Anti-Government crowd.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:21
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My Imaginary GF posted:Because 'solve its own problems' results in genocide. For better or worse, Americans are firmly against photogenic genocides. Yeah when our interventions instead lead to slow genocides and ethnic cleanings I really don't see how us leaving would make a difference. I say let Turkey, Iran and Saudi Arabia decide what happens to the region.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:21
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Crowsbeak posted:Yeah when our interventions instead lead to slow genocides and ethnic cleanings I really don't see how us leaving would make a difference. I say let Turkey, Iran and Saudi Arabia decide what happens to the region. I'm sure Pakistan wants a say too, at least then MIGF can live out his Clacy-esque dreams of a preemptive nuclear strike
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Nov 19, 2014 20:23
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MIGF what plausible reasons would Israel be allowed to deploy nuclear weapons and/or biological warfare?
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Nov 19, 2014 20:23
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CommieGIR posted:I'm sure Pakistan wants a say too, at least then MIGF can live out his Clacy-esque dreams of a preemptive nuclear strike Considering that place has significant problems keeping itself together, I want to know what reality sees it extending influence anywhere beyond the Pashtun areas of Afghanistan.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:24
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Job Truniht posted:MIGF what plausible reasons would Israel be allowed to deploy nuclear weapons and/or biological warfare? Spread of the intifada to American soil Iranian acquisition of nuclear weapons capabilities with determination to acquire weapons Attempts by Palestinian organizations to coordinate with ISIS/acquire WMDs
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Nov 19, 2014 20:25
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