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The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > TRUMP: holy FUCK its november 8th

«‹›14088 »

Broken Machine: Oct 22, 2010

Jackson Taus posted:

To add on to this, the Koch Brothers/the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy are already a step ahead on this game - pushing their views through law schools and economics departments so that if they can't directly influence legislators at least they'll be molding them as they come into the system.

High schools too.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 22:55

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# ? May 10, 2024 08:50

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Broken Machine posted:

High schools too.

Thankfully Pearson and McGraw-Hill removed the changes the Koch's pushed through to their science books.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 22:56

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

CommieGIR posted:

Thankfully Pearson and McGraw-Hill removed the changes the Koch's pushed through to their science books.

Kochs have several grant programs available which offer students up to $2,000 reimbursement for enrollment in select, approved courses. If someone is willing to reduce the costs of students in higher ed while they're instructed upon best-practices analytical methods, I trust the students to be intelligent enough to see through potential bias and conflicts of interest.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 22:58

menino: Jul 27, 2006; Pon De Floor

My Imaginary GF posted:

Kochs have several grant programs available which offer students up to $2,000 reimbursement for enrollment in select, approved courses. If someone is willing to reduce the costs of students in higher ed while they're instructed upon best-practices analytical methods, I trust the students to be intelligent enough to see through potential bias and conflicts of interest.

Yeah it's certainly possible to overcome, but the main takeaway is that it's a lovely program that shouldn't exist.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 23:18

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

menino posted:

Yeah it's certainly possible to overcome, but the main takeaway is that it's a lovely program that shouldn't exist.

I agree, however, you can't reform education in America without first fixing our communities and restoring historical rates of intra-class mobility during the lifespan. Until then, its better than nothing.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 23:26

Nameless_Steve: Oct 18, 2010; "There are fair questions about shooting non-lethally at retreating civilian combatants."

!!!BREAKING NEWS!!!

Jim Webb Launches Exploratory Committee

Does he have the right stuff to officially enter?

# ? Nov 20, 2014 07:50

VanSandman: Feb 16, 2011; SWAP.AVI EXCHANGER

My Imaginary GF posted:

You 'reform' lobbying too much without addressing the underlying issues, all you do is push more money through unofficial channels.

Would you be in favor of a system whereby votes could be directly purchased with cash given to the voters?

# ? Nov 20, 2014 07:51

DynamicSloth: Jul 30, 2006; "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Nameless_Steve posted:

!!!BREAKING NEWS!!!

Jim Webb Launches Exploratory Committee

Does he have the right stuff to officially enter?

Maybe he can enter but...

quote:

The excitement among Democrats about James Webb, the Senator from Virginia, is understandable. Having a Vietnam-war-hero-turned- Reagan-administration-official-turned-Iraq-War foe on the ticket would lend Barack Obama a stiff dose of military experience, not to mention manly toughness.
But most speculation about Webb misses just how radical, risky and historic a choice Webb would be. He�s not some liberal Republican or moderate Democrat a few degrees to the right of the Democratic mainstream. He�s a Vietnam veteran whose driving passion for several decades was contempt for �the Left,� those draft-evading �elites� who came to run the modern Democratic Party.
Democrats have nominated southerners as part of their tickets nine times since 1976 (Carter, Bentsen, Clinton, Gore and Edwards) and military veterans eleven times (Carter, Mondale, Bentsen, Gore, Dukakis, and Kerry). They�ve convinced themselves therefore that they have reached out to the Reagan Democrats. But these veterans and southerners were all men who had been on the liberal side of the Vietnam-era culture wars. Not Jim Webb.
Choosing Webb would either violently re-open old wounds, or finally call home the Reagan Democrats.

Vietnam
To say Webb was a Vietnam veteran doesn�t begin to convey the full package. First, he wasn�t just there, he was a hero of the highest order � at one point having literally thrown his body in front of a grenade to protect another soldier. He persevered through unspeakable horrors, leading a platoon in which fifty-six men were killed or wounded, a typical moment being described in the book Nightingales Song when one of his squad leaders �hoisted a wounded Marine onto his narrow shoulders and was carrying him to safety when a burst of machine-gun fire tore his midsection apart, his lifeless body falling at Webb�s feet.�
More important, Webb developed a rage at those who opposed the war, especially those who avoided service. In his essays on Vietnam, he has blended, sometimes unfairly, all opponents of the war into one soldier-hating, elitist bloc who avoided service and then, to assuage their own guilt and prove their moral supremacy, villified the soldiers who did serve.
He shows no mercy to those who seemed overly friendly to North Vietnam. Asked at one point if he might want to meet Jane Fonda, Webb said, �I wouldn�t go across the street to watch her slit her wrist.� His contempt was not reserved for Hollywood radicals. Then-Congressman Christopher Dodd (now a senior Democratic colleague of Webb�s in the Senate) �typified the hopeless naivite of his peers� who assailed the South Vietnamese government and idealized the North. John Kerry, he wrote, �deserves condemnation� for leading Vietnam Veterans Against the War because he �portrayed their fellow veterans as unwilling soldiers, morally debased and haunted by their service.� Jimmy Carter, by providing amnesty to Vietnam draft evaders, had thereby elevated those who opposed the war to the �level of moral purist� while �insulting� those who had served.
And the Clintons? Well, after Bill Clinton left office amidst a scandal over his pardoning unscrupulous financiers, Webb wrote, �It is a pleasurable experience to watch Bill Clinton finally being judged, even by his own party, for the ethical fraudulence that has characterized is entire political career.� (Sort of makes one wonder how they might react to if Obama chose Webb instead of Hillary). Some of his animus toward the Clintons seems related to their involvement in the McGovern campaign and anti-war movements. Commenting on the 20th anniversary of Saigon, Webb was furious because war opponents, including the Clintons, were not apologizing. Sounding more like Rush Limbaugh than Barack Obama, Webb described anti-war protesters as too infatuated with the nobility of their efforts to recognize their own error:
�What would we make of the protest music that thrilled so many hearts, of the exhilarating antiwar rallies, of the love-soaked, dope-hazed evenings in places like Woodstock, if there finally was a conclusion that the young men who marched off to the jungles for years of unrelenting blood and terror had indeed done the right thing?�
Even his opposition to the Vietnam War Memorial (the black wall) arose from his belief that it mocked mock soldiers and would serve as �a wailing wall for future anti-draft and antinuclear demonstrators.�

Women
His views on women in the military flowed from a similar analysis that the cultural left de-valued and misunderstood military service. The class of congressman elected in 1974 � many of whom now chair the main committees of House and Senate � began a decade long attack on the military and soldiers, Webb believed. �All things military had become targets gleefully fired upon,� he wrote in the Weekly Standard.
Those who didn�t serve, Webb believed, benefited psychologically from ripping down the macho military. �For many males who did not serve, particularly the high achievers who wished no blemish on their reputations, the �demasculaization� of the military was a natural deterrent to any attack on their manhood as their youthful actions came to be viewed in retrospect.�
Webb�s controversial article, �Woman Can�t Fight� in Washingtonian in 1979 argued against having women in combat roles, and he previously had argued against admitting women to the Annapolis Naval Academy. �Men fight better,� Webb explains, because they are more naturally violent, cruel and aggressive. Again casting it as a dispute between real, everyday American and elites, he declared: �You might not pick this up in K Street law offices or in the halls of Congress, but once you enter the areas of this country where more typical Americans dwell, the areas that provide the men who make up our combat units, it becomes obvious. Inside the truck stops and in the honky-tonks, down on the street and in the coal towns, American men are tough and violent. When they are lured or drafted from their homes and put through the dehumanization of boot camp, then thrown into an operating combat unit, they don�t get any nicer, either.�
It is in that context, that Webb then wrote the words, that have gotten him trouble most: �And I have never met a woman, including the dozens of female midshipmen I encountered during my recent semester as a professor at the Naval Academy, whom I would trust to provide those men with combat leadership.�
He links his opposition to women in combat, and at the naval academy, to his sense that that by �attempting to sexually sterilize the Naval Academy environment in the name of equality,� the training regimen � which requires a certain amount of brutality � has become too soft and ineffective. �Our military forces are doomed to suffer the consequences.�

Affirmative Action
Webb�s views on affirmative action may have been shaped during the years when he was a card-carrying member of the conservative team in the post-Vietnam culture war. Some of his writings on race drip with the same loathing of the left, and a sense that cultural �elites� running the nation had once again denigrated his people, in this case not soldiers but the white working class.
In a book review praising Ward Connerly, the conservative black who led the efforts to overturn affirmative action in California, Webb said �Connerly�s views on race relations are decades ahead of the Jacobins who have foisted the affirmative-action regime on this country�.. Affirmative action, which originally sought to repair the state-induced damage to blacks from slavery and its aftermath, has within one generation brought about a permeating state-sponsored racism that is as odious as the Jim Crow laws it sought to countermand.�
Now, thanks to affirmative action in college admission and hiring, �the less successful white cultures have fallen further behind as a veneer of minorities have joined the elites.� Notably, during the primaries Webb ascribed Obama�s weak performance in the Appalachian region not as the result of racism but whites� justifiable disgust over the excesses of affirmative action.
While never insulting African Americans themselves, Webb clearly identifies far more with the grievances of whites, now and the in the past. Speaking of the 1960s, he refers to the �the regrettable and well publicized turmoil of the Civil Rights years.� As for the Civil War, Webb noted compassionately that the Confederate soldiers had to return to a �devastated land and military occupation� and then �endure the bitter humiliation of reconstruction.� He showed no particular awareness that it was that military occupation that protected blacks from constant terrorism.
Nowadays, he defends affirmative action for blacks � whom he says have a legitimate historical claim � but criticizes its expansion to help other minority groups. �When this program expanded to the present day diversity programs, where essentially every ethnic group other than Caucasians are included, then that becomes state sponsored racism.�
He now emphasizes the positive, urging his fellow white Scots-Irish to join forces with African Americans �with whom our history in this country most closely intertwines.� Obama, he suggests, could unite blacks and whites like never before. �If this cultural group could get at the same table with black America, you could really change politics because they have so much in common in terms of what they need out of government.�

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Webb was a loud cultural conservative for decades. Since he got frustrated with being a U.S. Senator and wandered off I doubt he'll have the stomach for the unrelenting oppo dump that is coming his way.

# ? Nov 20, 2014 13:45

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

DynamicSloth posted:

Maybe he can enter but...

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Webb was a loud cultural conservative for decades. Since he got frustrated with being a U.S. Senator and wandered off I doubt he'll have the stomach for the unrelenting oppo dump that is coming his way.

Don't trust any presidential candidate over thirty (except Bernie Sanders)

# ? Nov 20, 2014 14:06

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Nameless_Steve posted:

!!!BREAKING NEWS!!!

Jim Webb Launches Exploratory Committee

Does he have the right stuff to officially enter?

Who exactly is his constituency...

# ? Nov 20, 2014 15:34

Jackson Taus: Oct 19, 2011

mcmagic posted:

Who exactly is his constituency...

I feel like it's one of those "keep trying to compete for working class to middle-class whites" sort of things. Obviously if it worked it'd be great, but I think the reality is that given the choice between Diet Republican Tough Guy and Republican Tough Guy, folks are gonna go with the actual Republican.

# ? Nov 20, 2014 15:59

Chokes McGee: Aug 7, 2008; This is Urotsuki.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Don't trust any presidential candidate over thirty (except Bernie Sanders)

But you can't run for president unless you're—ooooooooooooooh.

# ? Nov 20, 2014 16:03

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Was Webb the one that pissed off Bush by telling him he wished his kid or nephew wasn't in Iraq?

# ? Nov 20, 2014 16:23

Bastaman Vibration: Jun 26, 2005

I told my conserva-dad about Webb. I bet the guy that kept getting caught by airport security for trying to take guns on planes will serve him well in his demographic.

Bastaman Vibration fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Nov 20, 2014

# ? Nov 20, 2014 17:17

The Warszawa: Jun 6, 2005; Look at me. Look at me.

I am the captain now.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Don't trust any presidential candidate over thirty (except Bernie Sanders)

Bernie's NPR interview was ... not encouraging.

# ? Nov 20, 2014 17:25

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

mcmagic posted:

Who exactly is his constituency...

Webb was supported by DKos and the Netroots early on with his 2006 Senate bid, mostly because of his opposition to the war in Iraq and because they knew they couldn't do much better in Virginia in 2006. Kos has since said that he's no longer on the Webbmentum train.

# ? Nov 20, 2014 17:26

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Joementum posted:

Webb was supported by DKos and the Netroots early on with his 2006 Senate bid, mostly because of his opposition to the war in Iraq and because they knew they couldn't do much better in Virginia in 2006. Kos has since said that he's no longer on the Webbmentum train.

Yeah but he's an easy choice if the alternative is a good ole boy Sons of Confederate Veterans member....

# ? Nov 20, 2014 17:32

ufarn: May 30, 2009

I don't think anyone with that website is ready to lead.

# ? Nov 20, 2014 18:10

Alec Bald Snatch: Sep 12, 2012; by exmarx

mcmagic posted:

Who exactly is his constituency...

# ? Nov 20, 2014 19:51

De Nomolos: Jan 17, 2007; TV rots your brain like it's crack cocaine

comes along bort posted:

It's actually a good book, esp if you're from Appalachia.

I'm assuming he'll be more pointed in his economic criticisms of Clinton, probably from a populist perspective, possibly more left-leaning. At least someone will talk about someone that's poor and not The Middle Class, even if it's just as some sort of cultural identifier that probably won't work since the Democrats are pretty solidly seen as the coastal liberal party and that's where the $ is.

# ? Nov 20, 2014 20:53

Rygar201: Jan 26, 2011; I AM A TERRIBLE PIECE OF SHIT.

Please Condescend to me like this again.

Oh yeah condescend to me ALL DAY condescend daddy.

The Warszawa posted:

Bernie's NPR interview was ... not encouraging.

I only caught the snippets where he ducked questions about the White Working Class. How was the whole interview?

# ? Nov 20, 2014 21:08

Alec Bald Snatch: Sep 12, 2012; by exmarx

De Nomolos posted:

It's actually a good book, esp if you're from Appalachia.

I'm assuming he'll be more pointed in his economic criticisms of Clinton, probably from a populist perspective, possibly more left-leaning. At least someone will talk about someone that's poor and not The Middle Class, even if it's just as some sort of cultural identifier that probably won't work since the Democrats are pretty solidly seen as the coastal liberal party and that's where the $ is.

I am and I've read enough about the subject that I doubt he has much new to offer.

Funnily enough Clinton was the white working class populist candidate in 2008. I was living in western NC back then and it was not surprising but notable the level of vitriol toward Obama and praise for her, despite the fact her husband sold pretty much everyone around under the river, and I seriously doubt she'd have done anything as president to make up for it.

# ? Nov 20, 2014 23:06

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

The Warszawa posted:

Bernie's NPR interview was ... not encouraging.

Not the worst NPR interview of this month though.

# ? Nov 20, 2014 23:07

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Raskolnikov38 posted:

Was Webb the one that pissed off Bush by telling him he wished his kid or nephew wasn't in Iraq?

Yep. Webb had just been elected, it was his first meeting with Bush, and was at an event welcoming the newly elected congressmen. Webb's son was a paratrooper over in Iraq, he'd worn his son's first pair of jump boots at every stop on his campaign. Bush came up to him and tried to do an overly friendly opener of "How's your son doing in Iraq?" To which Webb replied

"He'd be doing a lot loving better if he was home"

Beat pause, Bush left without saying anything else and left the event shortly thereafter

Webb has the stuff posted above as negatives for him as a candidate, but that interaction alone will always sit well with me

Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Nov 20, 2014

# ? Nov 20, 2014 23:22

Captain_Maclaine: Sep 30, 2001; Every moment I'm alive, I pray for death!

computer parts posted:

Not the worst NPR interview of this month though.

Way to set that bar high.

# ? Nov 20, 2014 23:24

VanSandman: Feb 16, 2011; SWAP.AVI EXCHANGER

comes along bort posted:

I am and I've read enough about the subject that I doubt he has much new to offer.

Funnily enough Clinton was the white working class populist candidate in 2008. I was living in western NC back then and it was not surprising but notable the level of vitriol toward Obama and praise for her, despite the fact her husband sold pretty much everyone around under the river, and I seriously doubt she'd have done anything as president to make up for it.

The phrase is sold down the river, because if you were a slave in America sold down the river that meant you were getting further into cotton land with more beatings and even shittier treatment.

# ? Nov 20, 2014 23:51

Alec Bald Snatch: Sep 12, 2012; by exmarx

looks like i picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue then

# ? Nov 21, 2014 01:29

The Warszawa: Jun 6, 2005; Look at me. Look at me.

I am the captain now.

Rygar201 posted:

I only caught the snippets where he ducked questions about the White Working Class. How was the whole interview?

"People shouldn't vote their color, they should vote on [class issues]," the same week as both the Ferguson grand jury is supposed to come in and Obama is acting on immigration reform (which ties into anti-Latino sentiment that's been boiling over since 2004) is just so incredibly out of touch. Lines like this make me think that Sanders is basically socialist Jim Webb:

quote:

Well, here's what you got. What you got is an African-American president, and the African-American community is very, very proud that this country has overcome racism and voted for him for president. And that's kind of natural. You've got a situation where the Republican Party has been strongly anti-immigration, and you've got a Hispanic community which is looking to the Democrats for help.

But that's not important. You should not be basing your politics based on your color. What you should be basing your politics on is, how is your family doing? ... In the last election, in state after state, you had an abysmally low vote for the Democrats among white, working-class people. And I think the reason for that is that the Democrats have not made it clear that they are prepared to stand with the working-class people of this country, take on the big money interests. I think the key issue that we have to focus on, and I know people are uncomfortable about talking about it, is the role of the billionaire class in American society.

# ? Nov 21, 2014 01:38

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Keep in mind that Sanders' constituency is 95.3% white.

# ? Nov 21, 2014 01:43

The Warszawa: Jun 6, 2005; Look at me. Look at me.

I am the captain now.

Joementum posted:

Keep in mind that Sanders' constituency is 95.3% white.

If you're going to run for President in a party that increasingly relies on minority votes for viability, even as an issue candidate to raise awareness, you should probably think beyond your immediate constituency.

# ? Nov 21, 2014 02:01

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

The Warszawa posted:

If you're going to run for President in a party that increasingly relies on minority votes for viability, even as an issue candidate to raise awareness, you should probably think beyond your immediate constituency.

Why do people think he's running seriously for President?

# ? Nov 21, 2014 02:03

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Trabisnikof posted:

Why do people think he's running seriously for President?

Even if you're only doing it to "bring a message" or whatever it probably shouldn't be "let's pretend that race doesn't exist, signed A Wyatt Mann".

# ? Nov 21, 2014 02:06

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

The Warszawa posted:

If you're going to run for President in a party that increasingly relies on minority votes for viability, even as an issue candidate to raise awareness, you should probably think beyond your immediate constituency.

I agree. It's clearly something he'll have to get more experience doing.

# ? Nov 21, 2014 02:07

Pirate Radar: Apr 18, 2008; You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!

Joementum posted:

Keep in mind that Sanders' constituency is 95.3% white.

Honestly that's lower than I would have guessed.

# ? Nov 21, 2014 02:24

The Warszawa: Jun 6, 2005; Look at me. Look at me.

I am the captain now.

Chantilly Say posted:

Honestly that's lower than I would have guessed.

It's 30% Franco-American!

# ? Nov 21, 2014 03:25

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

The Warszawa posted:

It's 30% Franco-American!

I didn't think Vermonters were that fascist.

# ? Nov 21, 2014 03:28

ReindeerF: Apr 20, 2002; Rubber Dinghy Rapids Bro

Bernie Sanders, beholden to Big Maple AND Big Pasta.

# ? Nov 21, 2014 09:38

Knight: Dec 23, 2000; SPACE-A-HOLIC; Taco Defender

The next great "See, I'm not racist" hope, Ben Carson, is already taking fire for not forsaking all other gods and worshiping at the altar of guns:

quote:

Ahead of a weekend trip to Iowa, potential 2016 Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson sought to assure supporters Wednesday evening that he's a strong Second Amendment supporter.

As he inches closer to the prospect of a presidential campaign, Carson used a conference call to try to address questions about his loyalty to gun rights. Skeptics often point to a statement the neurosurgeon-turned-conservative-activist made in 2013 to conservative talk-show host Glenn Beck, who asked whether people have the right to own semi-automatic weapons.

�It depends on where you live,� Carson told Beck. �If you live in the midst of a lot of people, and I�m afraid that that semi-automatic weapon is going to fall into the hands of a crazy person, I would rather you not have it.�

...

�Perhaps I didn�t convey it appropriately,� he said. �I wanted to convey that, you know, I've lived in urban areas. I've worked in urban areas. I've seen a lot of carnage, and I'd prefer a situation where the kinds of weapons that create that kind of carnage don't fall to the hands of criminal elements or insane people. But that is secondary to the desire to always defend the Second Amendment.�

Carson said that �under no circumstances� would he �allow a bureaucrat to remove any law-abiding citizen's rights for any kind of weapon that they want to protect themselves.�

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2014-11-20/ben-carson-seeks-to-assure-supporters-hes-solid-on-guns

This is not playing well. Even among Herman Cain's audience, where it was presented with the market-testing approach of "does his latest attempt to clarify his 2nd Amendment stance ease your concerns?", the responses compared him to Obama and expressed distrust. You cannot say anything to this base that is not 100% and unabashed support of all guns everywhere and at all times or you scare them. Either you're with us or your against guns.

Knight fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Nov 22, 2014

# ? Nov 22, 2014 01:57

Ninjasaurus: Feb 11, 2014; This is indeed a disturbing universe.

Knight posted:

The next great "See, I'm not racist" hope, Ben Carson, is already taking fire for not forsaking all other gods and worshiping at the altar of guns:
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2014-11-20/ben-carson-seeks-to-assure-supporters-hes-solid-on-guns

This is not playing well. Even among Herman Cain's audience, where it was presented with the market-testing approach of "does his latest attempt to clarify his 2nd Amendment stance ease your concerns?", the responses compared him to Obama and expressed distrust. You cannot say anything to this base that is not 100% and unabashed support of all guns everywhere and at all times or you scare them. Either you're with us or your against guns.

Carson is clearly a joke candidate and I'm cynically assuming he's just trying to raise his profile by running and doesn't actually expect to get the nomination.

Another Bloomberg article posted today quoted a Clinton insider as saying a Jeb Bush/Rob Portman ticket could make a worthy opponent to Hillary. Thoughts?

# ? Nov 22, 2014 02:09

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# ? May 10, 2024 08:50

Alec Bald Snatch: Sep 12, 2012; by exmarx

Ninjasaurus posted:

Another Bloomberg article posted today quoted a Clinton insider as saying a Jeb Bush/Rob Portman ticket could make a worthy opponent to Hillary. Thoughts?

Maybe in David Brooks' wet dreams.

# ? Nov 22, 2014 03:05

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > TRUMP: holy FUCK its november 8th

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