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Job Truniht posted:Romans have a strong historical claim to Israeli land. We should give it to the Vatican. Wasn't that Tom Clanceys solution to the conflict?
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Nov 20, 2014 21:38
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Job Truniht posted:Romans have a strong historical claim to Israeli land. We should give it to the Vatican. The Israelistes stole the land from the Philestines. We need to create a Philestinian homeland.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:44
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Baloogan posted:http://electronicintifada.net/content/finnish-israeli-arms-trade-flouts-eu-regulations/8259 I guess if trade means supporting a country, we support a shitload of countries in the world! We don't protect Israel in the UN, we don't send them free money, we don't have a massive demographics driving for alliance with it no matter what. Business is business. We do business with far worse countries then Israel, so does the rest of the EU. You're willfully ignorant of the rest of the post, btw, once again showing what a coward you are 
DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Nov 20, 2014 |
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Nov 20, 2014 21:45
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Job Truniht posted:Romans have a strong historical claim to Israeli land. We should give it to the Vatican. No need to go that far, just rewind to before the British Mandate. And God bless the Ottoman Empire. And surely, if the I/P conflict is just about people, not land, for the Israelis, they'll be fine with a return to the Jewish confessional millet of Jerusalem if it would bring and to the grave and constant Palestinian threat.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:45
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Zeitgueist posted:The Israelistes stole the land from the Philestines. Philestine belonged to the Persians before it belonged to the Philestines. Clearly, the Persians have no interest in the current conflict, and must be given the land to counter-balance the Greek sphere.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:47
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My Imaginary GF posted:Philestine belonged to the Persians before it belonged to the Philestines. Clearly, the Persians have no interest in the current conflict, and must be given the land to balance the Greek sphere. Persian suzerainty didn't reach the shores of the Mediterranean till the sixth century BCE you sad, sad little man.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:48
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Crowsbeak posted:Wasn't that Tom Clanceys solution to the conflict? I have seen worse ideas tbqh.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:49
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My Imaginary GF posted:Philestine belonged to the Persians before it belonged to the Philestines. Clearly, the Persians have no interest in the current conflict, and must be given the land to counter-balance the Greek sphere. Eventually it'll just be given back to the Israeli's, right? right? CommieGIR posted:Oh, please explain the expansion of settlements. Right now. Or shut the hell up if its just about 'People'
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Nov 20, 2014 21:49
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zeal posted:Persian suzerainty didn't reach the shores of the Mediterranean till the sixth century BCE you sad, sad little man. Neo-Assyrian propaganda.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:49
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How about you stop making jokes to deflect criticism of your horrible opinions and just own up to them?
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Nov 20, 2014 21:51
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My Imaginary GF posted:Neo-Assyrian propaganda. Your pig-ignorance of history is a joke, but not in the way you think.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:52
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DarkCrawler posted:You're willfully ignorant of the rest of the post, btw, once again showing what a coward you are No I just chose not to respond to name calling, you jerk.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:54
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zeal posted:No need to go that far, just rewind to before the British Mandate. And God bless the Ottoman Empire. Serioustalk, the Jews were unhappy as a millet, and quite a few of them reacted by finding ways of getting membership in European Capitulations, which created a vicious circle of alienation which was working in parallel to early Zionist initiatives. In some ways similar to how Jews in Algeria, just as native as the Muslims, ultimately were alienated and mostly left for France because of French favoritism during the French Algeria period.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:56
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Baloogan posted:No I just chose not to respond to name calling, you jerk. You clearly don't choose to respond to bunch of other stuff then the name calling. It's not name calling when it is a demonstrable fact either, as your post history reveals nothing but poo poo-and-run  Do you have an actual opinion to defend? An actual viewpoint to argue? No? Not surprised. Like 99% of pro-Israelis in SA, you are a coward.
DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Nov 20, 2014 |
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Nov 20, 2014 22:01
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[quote="team overhead smash" post="437916459"] No, it doesn't depend on that at all. I'm talking about the law which defines how forces engaged in a conflict are legally allowed to fight. It is illegal and the people who carried out the attack are either criminals or war criminals depending on whether we consider them part of a militia. Your opinion has no basis in international military law or in the basic morality that the law is built upon. I was not referring to international military law or the ideology that underpins it , but to general morality. In my book that can potentially allow for any war crime provided the situation is horrible enough. Naturally this has no bearing on the legality of such acts and those who commit them should prosecuted no matter how morally defensible those crimes are. I am totally down for punishing those responsible for the latest attacks but i still regard them as morally justified. Who gets to decide what is the "correct" and "moral" way for an oppressed people to figth back anyway? Surely that should be up to the oppressed people themselves and no one else ?
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Nov 20, 2014 22:01
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Baloogan posted:No I just chose not to respond to name calling, you jerk. You actually believe that morality doesn't play a part in government policy? Have you ever met anybody who was elected to a statewide office, let alone a national one? There's a good reason why Kissinger never ran for any office and the sort of certified wheezy-voiced nerds who talk at length about political realism are confined to think tanks and eagerly wishing they were part of a think tank.
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Nov 20, 2014 22:02
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:Imagine how much more prosperous the entire region would be if this situation was resolved tomorrow: If these estimates are true, then this whole conflict is just absolutely cartoonish, as opposed to border-line cartoonish.
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Nov 20, 2014 22:37
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team overhead smash posted:- Even if we go by the Hamas charter, which I think isn't a great idea, the Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel but not Jews which it says can live within the Palestinian state that is created to replace it. The Mizrahi Jews who lived in Israel pre-1948. Everyone else gets ethnically cleansed. In some fantasy world where they can go back to Russia, or all of the Middle Eastern states that ethnically cleansed their Jews in 1948. quote:You have your chronology screwed up. Although other groups like PIJ launched rockets earlier on, Hamas had a ceasefire in place with Israel and only responded with rockets once Israel attacked Hamas militants ( No I don't. Tensions were escalating, but a ground invasion was only a fait accompli after the rockets started.
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Nov 20, 2014 23:51
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Relevant to what? Does it justify the continued military occupation of the West Bank, the blockade of Gaza and in general the collective punishment of the Palestinian citizenry? Yeah it is relevant when comparing the two organizations. quote:That a collaborationist government agreed to territorial exchanges pending good faith negotiations is indeed great, however, this hardly makes it permissible for Israel to unilaterally annex certain territories which it desires and on top of that, no compensation was ever provided. Everyone is cynical. Hamas does what it does because it thinks that it will help its negotiating position. The same goes for land grabs. quote:Even if some Palestinian leader agreed to waive the RoR it will not be legally binding as every refugee is entitled to his basic rights. How much precedent is there for descendants of refugees being repatriated? Regardless, this is basically saying that the conflict will perpetuate indefinitely, and it very wall may, because that absolute red line for Israel in that it means that a two state solution isn't feasible. They literally will never agree to it. I don't think Abbas could agree to waive it without being turned into Sadat, but this is one area where the international community largely is on Israel's side. It's also a gigantic can of worms due to all of the Jewish refugees from 1948.
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Nov 20, 2014 23:56
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Kim Jong Il posted:How much precedent is there for descendants of refugees being repatriated? Regardless, this is basically saying that the conflict will perpetuate indefinitely, and it very wall may, because that absolute red line for Israel in that it means that a two state solution isn't feasible. They literally will never agree to it. I don't think Abbas could agree to waive it without being turned into Sadat, but this is one area where the international community largely is on Israel's side. It's also a gigantic can of worms due to all of the Jewish refugees from 1948. I think you mean thr Balfour Decleration. Setting up this mess happened way before 1948, they just took advantage of the fact that the British were in no position to stop them by 1948 versus 1918. Either way, getting a lot of victim blaming from this post.
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Nov 20, 2014 23:59
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CommieGIR posted:I think you mean thr Balfour Decleration. "Survive the Shoah, get your house taken over by the Soviets and lose everything? Quit colonizing, that land with safety isn't yours." That's victim blaming. The post you cite lays out the political realities of the current situation, which you apparently see as victim blaming.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:05
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My Imaginary GF posted:"Survive the Shoah, get your house taken over by the Soviets and lose everything? Quit colonizing, that land with safety isn't yours." You don't believe in political realities you moron And no, its not victim blaming to say that colonizing someone elses homes was probably a bad idea, especially when the colony was being setup by whackjobs who think they are doing gods will by giving the Jews back their 'god given homeland'. Oh, bonus points: Enacting the same rules that the Soviets did to your people against the people who were already in your little colony when you arrived. But lets be honest: only the Israelis are allowed to be victims according to you. Hows the plan to nuke Iran going you daft idiot?
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Nov 21, 2014 00:10
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My Imaginary GF posted:"Survive the Shoah, get your house taken over by the Soviets and lose everything? Quit colonizing, that land with safety isn't yours." Survivors of ethnic cleansing don't get little gold tokens from the ICC entitling them to do it to someone else. They stop being the victims when they start oppressing other people who had nothing to do with it.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:13
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My Imaginary GF posted:"Survive the Shoah, get your house taken over by the Soviets and lose everything? Quit colonizing, that land with safety isn't yours." I thought you were against morality.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:13
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My Imaginary GF posted:"Survive the Shoah, get your house taken over by the Soviets and lose everything? Quit colonizing, that land with safety isn't yours." So, I suppose you're a pure realist, not making moral assertions. Reminder: My Imaginary GF posted:If their cause is truly about something more than earthly hatreds and desires, it will survive the test of time. You're a fraudulent realist, truly a treasonous lobbyist for Israel, actually. AIPAC, J-Street, and others are basically foreign spy agencies that bribe US politicians to serve another nation's interests. They would not be tolerated by any realist state.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:17
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My Imaginary GF posted:"Survive the Shoah, get your house taken over by the Soviets and lose everything? Quit colonizing, that land with safety isn't yours." In this above post, the Palestinians are not victims, since they are not human beings. Also the settlements that are being built right now are to relocate Jews expelled by the Soviet Union in TYOOL 2014.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:21
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Cat Mattress posted:In this above post, the Palestinians are not victims, since they are not human beings. Remember: You are only a real jew if you are white. At least that is how Isreali immigration treats the right of return.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:23
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My Imaginary GF posted:"Survive the Shoah, get your house taken over by the Soviets and lose everything? Quit colonizing, that land with safety isn't yours." The safety has nothing to do with the land, though. In fact, the land has directly contributed to endangering them in the past, such as when the Arab countries invaded in response to Israel's unilateral theft of the land in 1948. The factor that ensured their safety was not the land.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:33
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CommieGIR posted:Remember: You are only a real jew if you are white. At least that is how Isreali immigration treats the right of return. It doesn't though. Plenty of black and brown Jews in Israel. It's an ethnoreligious group, with a lot of variation.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:45
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DarkCrawler posted:It doesn't though. Plenty of black and brown Jews in Israel. What, is it just Ethiopian jews that don't make the cut?
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Nov 21, 2014 00:46
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DarkCrawler posted:I guess if trade means supporting a country, we support a shitload of countries in the world! We don't protect Israel in the UN, we don't send them free money, we don't have a massive demographics driving for alliance with it no matter what. Business is business. We do business with far worse countries then Israel, so does the rest of the EU. I wasn't sure before, but you seem determined to convince us that your loathing of Israel is just a sort of Freudian projection. Accusing another poster of being a coward for pointing out your unwilling to confront Finnish complicity with Israel kind of seals it. I know harsh introspection can be painful D.C., but you need to come to terms with reality even if it means discarding the delusions you've built up to minimize cognitive dissonance. CommieGIR posted:Remember: You are only a real jew if you are white. At least that is how Isreali immigration treats the right of return. Were you the poster in the last I/P thread stomping your feet and shouting that Mizrahi were white, no matter what they thought? Apologies if I'm mistaking you for someone else, but you do seem to have similarly troublesome issues with race and ethnicity. Is it about effacing the idea of Jews as a distinct ethnic group? Do you subscribe to the so-called Khazar theory? The Insect Court fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 00:57
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The Insect Court posted:Were you the poster in the last I/P thread stomping your feet and shouting that Mizrahi were white, no matter what they thought? Apologies if I'm mistaking you for someone else, but you do seem to have similarly troublesome issues with race and ethnicity. Is it about effacing the idea of Jews as a distinct ethnic group? Do you subscribe to the so-called Khazar theory? Nope. Not me. But nice 'Your a anti-semite' bait post.
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Nov 21, 2014 01:02
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The Insect Court posted:I wasn't sure before, but you seem determined to convince us that your loathing of Israel is just a sort of Freudian projection. Accusing another poster of being a coward for pointing out your unwilling to confront Finnish complicity with Israel kind of seals it. I know harsh introspection can be painful D.C., but you need to come to terms with reality even if it means discarding the delusions you've built up to minimize cognitive dissonance. Again, if trade is complicity, all nations are complicit with...pretty much all nations. United States supports Israel in ways that go above and beyond regular commerce between nations. If you actually get something in return it isn't helping someone. Please explain what about that is delusional. I don't actually believe that Israel acquiring arms is a moral failing on its part, either. I'm even OK with them having nukes
DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 01:03
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DarkCrawler posted:Again, if trade is complicity, all nations are complicit with...pretty much all nations. United States supports Israel in ways that go above and beyond regular commerce between nations. If you actually get something in return it isn't helping someone. Please explain what about that is delusional. I believe there is a law that specifically prohibits US companies from boycotting Israeli goods. Not sure if Finland has the same. It's weird that we have this law that only applies to Israel, I think.
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Nov 21, 2014 01:07
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The Insect Court posted:I wasn't sure before, but you seem determined to convince us that your loathing of Israel is just a sort of Freudian projection. Accusing another poster of being a coward for pointing out your unwilling to confront Finnish complicity with Israel kind of seals it. I know harsh introspection can be painful D.C., but you need to come to terms with reality even if it means discarding the delusions you've built up to minimize cognitive dissonance. Is collective punishment justifiable or not, Mr. Zorin? Don't wait for the translation.
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Nov 21, 2014 01:14
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syscall girl posted:I believe there is a law that specifically prohibits US companies from boycotting Israeli goods. Not sure if Finland has the same. http://www.cov.com/files/publicatio..._strategies.pdf wow, who knew i would actually learn a goddamn single thing from this thread. sure enough, this is a thing that exists. i'm astounded this hasn't been struck down on first amendment grounds.
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Nov 21, 2014 01:29
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Kim Jong Il posted:Yeah it is relevant when comparing the two organizations. Which I didn't. You brought this up. Regardless, I'm still curious as to how any of this mandates or justifies Israel's constant violations of Palestinian human rights and their right for self determination and governance. quote:Everyone is cynical. Hamas does what it does because it thinks that it will help its negotiating position. The same goes for land grabs. That's fine and all but once again, not pertinent, Israel is not negotiating, in fact one can wonder what imperative Israel has to negotiate anything even if it was interested in a territorial settlement and a two state solution, Israel is holding all the cards and can draw its own borders and defend them, moreover it seems absurd to suggest that the land grabs are meant to be swapped in future negotiations as Israel is settling hundreds of thousands of people in the territories it swaps. Also worth noting that while it's a nice negotiation strategy to actively seize lands just so that you could later hold on to a greater proportion of stolen land this is also an act of aggression and a war crime. quote:How much precedent is there for descendants of refugees being repatriated? Regardless, this is basically saying that the conflict will perpetuate indefinitely, and it very wall may, because that absolute red line for Israel in that it means that a two state solution isn't feasible. They literally will never agree to it. I don't think Abbas could agree to waive it without being turned into Sadat, but this is one area where the international community largely is on Israel's side. It's also a gigantic can of worms due to all of the Jewish refugees from 1948. Which modern precedent is there for ethnic cleansing where the refugees have requested to return to their homes and were repeatedly denied? Why should they lose their claims solely because the Israeli government is stalling for time? There is no can of worms in regards to Jewish refugees, the European refugees of the 1940s have received restitution and many of them (and their descendants) have had their citizenship reinstated in the countries they fled, lost property was also returned. Refugees from muslim countries during the 1950s likely do not want to return, regardless, they are still entitled for restitution which they should sue for from those respective countries. What can of worms can be possibly opened here? As for your claims that the RoR is an obstacle for peace and normality, I strongly disagree, while it is true that the RoR was a major source of hostilities during Israel's nascent years the obvious cause for the constantly escalating violence of the past few decades is the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, remove the constant friction between the IDF and the Palestinian citizenry and you've got yourself a recipe for peace and stability, there is no true cause to think otherwise, the refugees will get their due compensation eventually, the only obstacle towards that is the ongoing hostility and not the other way around. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 02:01
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DarkCrawler posted:Again, if trade is complicity, all nations are complicit with...pretty much all nations. United States supports Israel in ways that go above and beyond regular commerce between nations. If you actually get something in return it isn't helping someone. Please explain what about that is delusional. Interesting. So you obviously don't support BDS, given your liberal stance on trade with Israel. Frankly, I have to disagree. I think nations supplying Israel(or any other nation) with munitions have a basic moral responsibility to make sure they're not certain to be used in a manner that clearly and directly contravenes international law. Unlike you, I think it would be unacceptable for Finland or the United States to sell the Assad regime armaments. And I find your hands-off stance very morally disturbing, to be honest. Do you think it was morally acceptable for non-Axis nations in the Second World War to engage in trade with Nazi Germany(for example: Switzerland, Finland, etc.)? CommieGIR posted:Holy gently caress, can you go a single post without Your obsessive paranoia of being accused of anti-semitism simply isn't healthy C.G. Do you ever experience feelings of persecution as a result of this belief? Do you ever hear voices of people who aren't there accusing you of anti-semitism? I'm no mental health expert, but I would humbly suggest you consider raising the issue with your therapist in case there are underlying issues. The Insect Court fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 02:12
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The Insect Court posted:Do you think it was morally acceptable for non-Axis nations in the Second World War to engage in trade with Nazi Germany(for example: Switzerland, Finland, etc.)? Holy gently caress, can you go a single post without  or covertly accusing someone of anti-sematism?The Insect Court posted:Your obsessive paranoia of being accused of anti-semitism simply isn't healthy C.G. Do you ever experience feelings of persecution as a result of this belief? Do you ever hear voices of people who aren't there accusing you of anti-semitism? I'm no mental health expert, but I would humbly suggest you consider raising the issue with your therapist in case there are underlying issues. Its just this one fucker on a forum making GBS threads up all the posts. I don't know what his deal is, he is always trying to compare things to Nazi Germany or bait people into points where he can accuse them of being anti-semtitic. In a thread discussing the Israel-Palestinian conflict even. Isn't that a coincidence? Thankfully, everyone else seems to find his posts absurd. Except for this one other guy.... CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 02:16
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The Insect Court posted:
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Nov 21, 2014 02:28
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