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Somebody get the mayor of Boston on the line so he can publicly apologize for the marathon bombings. Also the collective people of Chechnya and anyone living in the Cambridge area or white phosphorous is back on the table.
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Nov 22, 2014 06:08
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syscall girl posted:Somebody get the mayor of Boston on the line so he can publicly apologize for the marathon bombings. Also the collective people of Chechnya and anyone living in the Cambridge area or white phosphorous is back on the table.
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Nov 22, 2014 06:10
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Dead Reckoning posted:Jordan had also previously demonstrated an extremely firm commitment to cracking down on terrorist groups on their soil. So does Abbas. So has Hamas. And this is recent, you don't seem to recall how things were when Arafat was still alive, cracking down on Hamas, and getting his cops killed for the trouble.
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Nov 22, 2014 06:16
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down with slavery posted:Absolutely not. Like you said, a dominant power NEVER gives it up(your words, not mine). So why would we? We could have just colonized the entire country. Maybe bulldoze a few homes and start sending settlers. I mean, we never know if those pesky japs are going to fight back. Better to be sure, right? syscall girl posted:Somebody get the mayor of Boston on the line so he can publicly apologize for the marathon bombings. Also the collective people of Chechnya and anyone living in the Cambridge area or white phosphorous is back on the table.
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Nov 22, 2014 06:24
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Dead Reckoning posted:On the other side of the coin, we invaded Afghanistan for refusing to hand over people we suspected of involvement with 9/11. That was also wrong and bad. Wasn't even the right country. Total failure. Good analogy, mouth-breather.
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Nov 22, 2014 06:26
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Dead Reckoning posted:I don't know why you keep harping on this Because you unironically posted this: Dead Reckoning posted:You're asking one side to back off from a position of absolute dominance and just accept the fact that it will most likely result in the deaths of more of their citizens. No matter how "moral" it may be, it isn't something that any state would do. Why is my "most likely" any less valid than yours?
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Nov 22, 2014 06:28
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syscall girl posted:That was also wrong and bad. Wasn't even the right country.  So, Bin Laden and the senior AQ leadership weren't in Afghanistan in 2001?down with slavery posted:Because you unironically posted this: Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Nov 22, 2014 |
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Nov 22, 2014 06:31
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Dead Reckoning posted:
Do you have proof that they were? Either way it was a failure which a lot of Americans (myself included) didn't support and led to a lot of needless deaths with terrible consequences all around. Unless you believe Bush was spreading democracy instead of mindless vengeance.
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Nov 22, 2014 06:38
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Clearly what Israel needs to do is to crack down harder on Palestinians until Fatah and Hamas are deposed and ISIS and Al Qaeda chapters are in control everywhere. Verily, there lies a path for peace for plucky little Israel.
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Nov 22, 2014 06:40
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down with slavery posted:Senior Israeli officials... quite trustworthy lol quote:
You're shifting your goal posts. You asked for a citation for UN schools being used for conflict purposes. I provided it.
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Nov 22, 2014 06:45
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syscall girl posted:Palestine's leadership and citizenry don't owe any apologies for the acts of a couple murderers, who are now dead. syscall girl posted:Do you have proof that they were? Absurd Alhazred posted:Clearly what Israel needs to do is to crack down harder on Palestinians until Fatah and Hamas are deposed and ISIS and Al Qaeda chapters are in control everywhere. Verily, there lies a path for peace for plucky little Israel. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Nov 22, 2014 |
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Nov 22, 2014 06:59
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Dead Reckoning posted:I don't think Israel has an endgame. (I don't think any of the Palestinian factions do either.) They're running the same "attack until the enemy agrees to peace on your terms" plan that worked for them in '67 and '73, but the Palestinians are never going to agree to peace on any terms Israel would consider favorable.  It was Sadat who played that game in '73 and won. And he won because he coupled the willingness to do war with a commitment to peace, both before and after. Israel has had to be dragged kicking and screaming into every single peace initiative. The Oslo stuff only came up after being pushed into Madrid in 1991, and even that was through the Oslo channel Arafat had already opened in 1979.Palestinians already agree to peace on terms that Israel would consider favorable if it didn't have US diplomatic and military backing making the price of the status quo somewhat lower than actually battling the settler movement. It's removing that which will, much like it did in '56, '79 and '91, push them into pragmatism. Either that or getting more soldiers killed. I hope it's not the latter, my brother is being drafted in two years.
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Nov 22, 2014 07:04
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Dead Reckoning posted:Politically motivated violence carries a different weight from a random homicide. And how do you know that was politically motivated? What politics was it furthering? Who deserves to be punished for it now that the perpetrators are dead?
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Nov 22, 2014 07:05
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Dead Reckoning posted:Again, you can't extract the event from the context. If the U.S. told Canada, "Hey, we can't seem to stop these Québécois separatists who keep staging raids across the border from their bases in Maine. Your police killed this bunch, so I don't really see what else we can do." no one would consider that acceptable. Politically motivated violence carries a different weight from a random homicide. I don't see a Shin Bet/Palestinian Security Forces joint task force to hunt down militants inside Palestinian territory to be a thing that would ever be considered acceptable. I'd agree, there really isn't an endgame other than "Force Hamas to unconditionally recognize Israel, on Israel's terms, while handing over the most militant leadership and ruling Gaza as part of a three-state solution." Until that occurs, I expect settlement policies to continue if not speed up, with attacks on Jewish religious targets meant to incite sectarian conflict. Absurd Alhazred posted:
Sadat made peace, and died for it. Who in the Palestinian leadership is willing to die a traitor for the cause of peace?
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Nov 22, 2014 07:05
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My Imaginary GF posted:Sadat made peace, and died for it. Who in the Palestinian leadership is willing to die a traitor for the cause of peace? Yeah, those darn right-wing Palestinian fanatics, always killing advocates for peace like Yitzhak Rabin and wait, what?
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Nov 22, 2014 07:10
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:Yeah, those darn right-wing Palestinian fanatics, always killing advocates for peace like Yitzhak Rabin and wait, what? That's my point. Whoever in the Palestinian leadership is able to broker a real peace will die a traitor in the eyes of their militants. So, who in Hamas is willing to die a traitor for the cause of peace?
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Nov 22, 2014 07:12
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My Imaginary GF posted:Whoever in the Palestinian leadership is able to broker a real peace will die a traitor in the eyes of their militants. Mahmoud "Abu Mazen" Abbas, you moron. I'm surprised he has yet to be assassinated, but that day is nigh. The only thing keeping him safe is just how much Israel is loving him over for his trouble. Although, again, Israel didn't need that to become a viable state at all. Like, who in Hagganah called Ben Gurion a traitor?
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Nov 22, 2014 07:13
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syscall girl posted:That was also wrong and bad. Wasn't even the right country. Total failure. Good analogy, mouth-breather. No it was perfectly fine. And they did in fact have Bin Ladin, it was just that our idiots in charge of America forgot about Afghanistan and went to Iraq.
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Nov 22, 2014 07:32
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Crowsbeak posted:No it was perfectly fine. And they did in fact have Bin Ladin, it was just that our idiots in charge of America forgot about Afghanistan and went to Iraq. It's okay to invade a country based on the word of known liars resulting in thousands of deaths to not find someone accused of a crime?
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Nov 22, 2014 07:38
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My Imaginary GF posted:I would not be happy, however, it is a result I could live with, and one which would not be as detrimental to American interests were the other result to occur. I sort of disagree. I'm not convinced Israel's continued existence is all that useful to us these days, and I'm pretty sure our support of them is actively counterproductive given that it annoys bigger countries with more economic weight and geopolitical influence.
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Nov 22, 2014 07:40
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Dead Reckoning posted:Again, you can't extract the event from the context. If the U.S. told Canada, "Hey, we can't seem to stop these Québécois separatists who keep staging raids across the border from their bases in Maine. Your police killed this bunch, so I don't really see what else we can do." no one would consider that acceptable. Politically motivated violence carries a different weight from a random homicide. I don't see a Shin Bet/Palestinian Security Forces joint task force to hunt down militants inside Palestinian territory to be a thing that would ever be considered acceptable. You're right. The States would be obligated to assert its dominance by bombing the poo poo out of Quebec, killing thousands of citizens, moving their own citizens in instead, and instituting a blockade.
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Nov 22, 2014 08:22
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syscall girl posted:It's okay to invade a country based on the word of known liars resulting in thousands of deaths to not find someone accused of a crime? We did, Bin Ladin is now dead. Also we had a video that showed him admitting to the act.
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Nov 22, 2014 08:25
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Crowsbeak posted:We did, Bin Ladin is now dead. Also we had a video that showed him admitting to the act. I'm not making the case that bin Laden didn't orchestrate 9/11 but people admit to things they haven't done all the time for attention or cachet (and that's when they aren't under duress.) And he certainly was not extra-judicially murdered in Afghanistan, nor did the Afghan war affect that.
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Nov 22, 2014 08:32
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I would just like to point out that MIGF is a fantasist and religious nutjob who believes the Torah contains the supreme moral law for all people and that he could bring down the Chicago machine, but only at the cost of his own life. So, pretty bog standard Israel apologist I guess
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Nov 22, 2014 09:19
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syscall girl posted:It's okay to invade a country based on the word of known liars resulting in thousands of deaths to not find someone accused of a crime? You're dropping a lot of hints here, if you have your own theory it would be nice if you could stop dancing around and just come out and say it. If not bin Laden and al Qaeda, who did 9/11? Did someone else do 9/11? syscall girl posted:Palestine's leadership and citizenry don't owe any apologies for the acts of a couple murderers, who are now dead. So are you admitting the killings in the synagogue were brutal murders of innocent people? Well, that's a start even if it's just one poster and it's twenty pages in and it's a grudging admission. SedanChair posted:I would just like to point out that MIGF is a fantasist and religious nutjob who believes the Torah contains the supreme moral law for all people and that he could bring down the Chicago machine, but only at the cost of his own life. Do you have any reason to believe that MIGF is Jewish, SedanChair? Other than your well-documented tendency to see agents of the Zionist conspiracy in every shadow? Not that there's anything wrong with him being Jewish, if he is. At least, I don't think so. Do you have a problem with that S.C? I ask because you seem to find the religious beliefs you ascribe to MIGF particularly objectionable. The Insect Court fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Nov 22, 2014 |
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Nov 22, 2014 09:23
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SedanChair posted:I would just like to point out that MIGF is a fantasist and religious nutjob who believes the Torah contains the supreme moral law for all people and that he could bring down the Chicago machine, but only at the cost of his own life. I think you mean troll gimmick account whose continued posting is baffling challenge: Find a thread with MIGF posts that are not laughably derailed challenge: Find correlation that MIGF's claims of being an "insider" in any field is at all legitimate
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Nov 22, 2014 09:23
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The Insect Court posted:Do you have any reason to believe that MIGF is Jewish, SedanChair? Other than your well-documented tendency to see agents of the Zionist conspiracy in every shadow?  MIGF has been raving about the supremacy of Jewish law in another thread for days. Still I didn't assume he's Jewish; nor did I say anything about his being Jewish, only that he is a religious nutjob which he definitely is. D- see me after class e: and any person who claims religion and the same appalling beliefs MIGF does is by definition perverse and highly objectionable; you're just a runaway-rear end wimp though woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Nov 22, 2014 |
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Nov 22, 2014 09:34
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The Insect Court posted:You're dropping a lot of hints here, if you have your own theory it would be nice if you could stop dancing around and just come out and say it. If not bin Laden and al Qaeda, who did 9/11? Did someone else do 9/11? Pretty sure Osama did 9/11. I'm not a truther or anything like that. I'm saying that the invasion of Afghanistan was a pitiful flailing attempt to appease the frothing masses. And Israel does worse to Palestinians over poorly aimed bottle rockets launched by literal angry children. quote:So are you admitting the killings in the synagogue were brutal murders of innocent people? Well, that's a start even if it's just one poster and it's twenty pages in and it's a grudging admission. It's not a 'grudging admission'. Murder is wrong and the people who did those murders were wrong to do it. Not only that but they are providing the pittance of fuel the IDF needs to murder and displace civilians in a manner that would make Hammurabi blush.
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Nov 22, 2014 09:50
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SedanChair posted:MIGF has been raving about the supremacy of Jewish law in another thread for days. Still I didn't assume he's Jewish; nor did I say anything about his being Jewish, only that he is a religious nutjob which he definitely is. D- see me after class But doesn't any religious believer think that their faith's holy scriptures contain the supreme moral law?  I'm sure that virtually every Muslim in the world would state that they believe the Qu'ran contains the supreme moral law. Do you think all Muslims are religious nutjobs S.C? Or just religious people who believe in the supreme moral authority of the Torah? Because I find either of those beliefs to be quite troubling. syscall girl posted:It's not a 'grudging admission'. Murder is wrong and the people who did those murders were wrong to do it. Not only that but they are providing the pittance of fuel the IDF needs to murder and displace civilians in a manner that would make Hammurabi blush. It's striking how similar this is to hearing some gun nut whine about the fatalities from the latest mass shooting because he thinks it means politicians will try to take some of his guns away. To him the murders are essentially background noise, what matters is his pet cause. You should probably consult a dictionary for the meaning of the word grudging before making that claim, since you don't seem to be using it correctly.
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Nov 22, 2014 09:54
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Dead Reckoning posted:If Israel has to keep Palestine in crushing poverty in order to limit the Palestinians' options to violence, they're going to need a really good reason to back off from their position of military dominance. My Imaginary GF posted:You're shifting your goal posts. You asked for a citation for UN schools being used for conflict purposes. I provided it. https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1173808/elliot-rodger-manifesto.txt You asked for a citation for women being cruel to Elliot Rodger and deserving death. I provided it.
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Nov 22, 2014 11:59
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Wait a minute, did MIGF shift the discussion again to put the onus on the Palestinians and pretend like their resistance to Israeli occupation and aggression is the cause for said occupation and aggression? My Ahistorical Girlfriend
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Nov 22, 2014 13:00
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The Insect Court posted:It's striking how similar this is to hearing some gun nut whine about the fatalities from the latest mass shooting because he thinks it means politicians will try to take some of his guns away. To him the murders are essentially background noise, what matters is his pet cause. This analogy would work if the response to shootings were not gun control, but the persecution of innocent gun owners as a reprisal for gun crimes. The "pet cause" here is human rights.
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Nov 22, 2014 13:46
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My Imaginary GF posted:UN admitted that rockets have been stored in its facilities, which were then turned over to Hamas. What do you do when your policy is "No site is off limits if used to launch an attack on a foreign nation"? You respond and eliminate the target. I hate giving MIGF any attention, but this is a common argument. Of course, one must carefully omit the fact that these schools where rockets were found were closed and vacant and that there is absolutely no evidence that the schools, shelters or hospitals that Israel bombed were being used militarily when they were attacked. This is hardly surprising, since attacking civilian infrastructure as a form of collective punishment is Israeli policy(the Dahiya Doctrine). Moreover, in previous conflicts, Israel has tried to justify its illegal and deadly attacks on civilians with the same false excuse. From Amnesty International's report on Cast Lead quote:In the cases investigated by Amnesty International of civilians killed in Israeli attacks, the deaths could not be explained as resulting from the presence of fighters shielding among civilians, as the Israel army generally contends. In all of the cases investigated by Amnesty International of families killed when their homes were bombed from the air by Israeli forces, for example, none of the houses struck was being used by armed groups for military activities. Similarly, in the cases of precision missiles or tank shells which killed civilians in their homes, no fighters were present in the houses that were struck and Amnesty International delegates found no indication that there had been any armed confrontations or other military activity in the immediate vicinity at the time of the attack." I repeat: attacking civilian targets in order to punish the community as a whole and to break the Palestinians' spirit is Israeli policy.
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Nov 22, 2014 14:04
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FreshlyShaven posted:I repeat: attacking civilian targets in order to punish the community as a whole and to break the Palestinians' spirit is expressed, popular Israeli policy. Hope you don't mind me fixing that for you.
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Nov 22, 2014 14:07
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eSports Chaebol posted:This analogy would work if the response to shootings were not gun control, but the persecution of innocent gun owners as a reprisal for gun crimes. The "pet cause" here is human rights. It's only human rights if you consider Arabs to be humans, which the likes of TIC and MIGF assuredly do not.
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Nov 22, 2014 15:25
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The Insect Court posted:But doesn't any religious believer think that their faith's holy scriptures contain the supreme moral law? Nobody cares about what you find troubling, moral cripple. If you're going to shrug, shrug at your own bad faith and idiocy. Read MIGF's posts instead of asking me, idiot. Were "all Muslims" posting in this thread or was MIGF? Then why on earth would I talk about them? Typical Muslim-baiter, expecting people to just take potshots at Muslims for no reason.
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Nov 22, 2014 16:18
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The Insect Court posted:But doesn't any religious believer think that their faith's holy scriptures contain the supreme moral law? Nah
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Nov 22, 2014 16:21
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syscall girl posted:Pretty sure Osama did 9/11. I'm not a truther or anything like that. I'm saying that the invasion of Afghanistan was a pitiful flailing attempt to appease the frothing masses. And Israel does worse to Palestinians over poorly aimed bottle rockets launched by literal angry children. "ma'an posted:Palestinian woman run over by Israeli near Shufat I assume Israel will bulldoze this settlers home won't they? Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Nov 22, 2014 |
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Nov 22, 2014 16:26
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Can we institute a rule wherein one decent article pertinent to the CURRENT crisis/spate of violence must be posted per page? We all were paying attention during Cast Lead, Pillar of Defense, and Operation Protective Edge. We all know what happened. The vast majority of this thread is personal insults, slap fights, and debating over pre-1948 history. I just want a place to get informed about what may well end up becoming (or indeed, already is) the Third Intifidah. Can we do something about that?http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/israeli-and-palestinian-leaders-know-what-they-need-to-do-to-stop-a-third-intifada/2014/11/19/20d12a30-7026-11e4-ad12-3734c461eab6_story.html posted:Mr. Netanyahu, the prime minister, promised last week not to change the status quo at the holy sites. But the Israeli leader, who some believe is preparing for an early election, is also exploiting the crisis for political ends. Though investigators found that the synagogue attackers were not linked to any group, Mr. Netanyahu concentrated his rhetorical fire on Mr. Abbas. On Monday he ordered the family homes of the attackers demolished — a much-criticized punishment that Israel employed during the previous uprisings. He asked all Israeli parties to join in a unity government, a measure the country has previously embraced only in wartime.
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Nov 22, 2014 17:27
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:Can we institute a rule wherein one decent article pertinent to the CURRENT crisis/spate of violence must be posted per page? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl9a-WPE8nI http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Jordanian-parliament-observes-moment-of-silence-for-terrorists-of-synagogue-attack-382433 "nrg posted:Parliament member Mahmeh Alkatasha (?) asked the council to also formulate a statement condemning the Zionist attacks on Jerusalem following the heroic acts of the Abu-Jamal brothers. I now completely understand how hatred of the Zionist entity by no means extends to hatred of the Israeli people.
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