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GAINING WEIGHT... posted:Hey, another question, which may sound flippant, but is actually sincere. It is a sacred mystery to ponder, and you will always gain by thinking about it. Jesus, sinless, preached the forgiveness of sins. He taught eternal life, and the true spirit of the law. He was put to death for it, as he prophesied. Then he resurrected, as he prophesied. His sacrifice on the cross was instrumental to his teaching. He saw it necessary to prove, via his resurrection, that resurrection was real, and that even men condemned on this Earth were capable of it. He was doing this for our spiritual benefit, out of his love for us. Going through the worst torments, the worst injustices, so that we might observe that he is with us when we undergo the same. This is infinitely more powerful for God to do than to snap his fingers and end all evil, which he could do, but chooses not to, in his divine wisdom, and as his divine right. God did not change the rules, but upheld the same rules that have always been in place. Jesus existed at the beginning of time, with the Father and the Spirit, as they are one.
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Nov 26, 2014 06:58
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Hey guys, just got back from church where joined together in praise. As I made my pilgrimage after the mass concluded, I stopped to partake in communion at a local chapel. Translation for all you idiots who don't get that everything is religion: I just got back from taking my final. On my way home, I stopped at an Arby's and got dinner.
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Nov 26, 2014 06:59
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Miltank posted:This is the great Catholic heresy The Church does uphold predestination, which is attested to in the Bible. It just does not reject free will, and interestingly neither does Zizek in his "nuanced" theology. You can look at CCC 600 for the official Catholic teaching on predestination and free will. fade5 posted:Universalism/universal reconciliation, the OG Christian afterlife theology, and pretty much the only one that doesn't make God into a mean, vengeful rear end in a top hat who tortures people for eternity. Universalism's cool, it's basically the backbone of the squishy, contradictory mess you could call my belief system. Universalism really should be a more popular theology/belief, but for some reason people prefer the ability to threaten nonbelievers with eternal punishment rather than assuring them that the afterlife will be better than their current one. There is a problem with it, which is that the Bible directly contradicts it. A Christian is obligated to hope for the salvation of all, but to respect God's final judgment. One cannot demand of God that he does not cast anyone apart from him into the eternal fire. God accepts only his servants and slaves into Heaven, not those who challenge his Will, which is good and just. And if it seems otherwise to you, it is because you are a mere mortal with no wisdom, as all of your wisdom proceeds from your Creator, and he can change your mind tomorrow, and very well may, if you invite him to.
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Nov 26, 2014 07:06
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quote:It is a sacred mystery to ponder, and you will always gain by thinking about it. Jesus, sinless, preached the forgiveness of sins. He taught eternal life, and the true spirit of the law. He was put to death for it, as he prophesied. Then he resurrected, as he prophesied. Assuming that this is not a joke post: How can you possibly know that the resurrection part of the mythology - the part that is necessary to substantiate Jesus's claim about his divinity - happened? Even if you were willing to believe eye witness testimony, we don't have it. Everything we do have is third hand, and was written well after Jesus, whomever he was, had left this world in one way or another. One would expect that this would be rather big news in Rome, from which we have excavated tons (literally tons) of documentation... and there's no mention of it. The best we have is a very dull, very ordinary listing of the supposed execution (and even that is not certain - only something you can stretch to fit plausibility).
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Nov 26, 2014 07:20
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The concept of eternity, which is essential to thoughts of the divine, is an interesting one, as it transcends the concept of time. For God has created time, as he created space. The world God knows, the Heavenly realm, has neither time nor space, and the best analogy we have in thinking about it would be another dimension. For him, all moments on Earth are viewable simultaneously, like all places, and all minds. And if he places you aside from him, he does it for all time; and yet, if he wishes, he can also retrieve you from that place, for all time. What does it mean that Jesus reigns for "a thousand years" in Revelation, with his most loyal servants, or that Satan is imprisoned in the abyss for "a thousand years," and yet, the beast and the false prophet are punished in the lake of fire "day and night, forever and ever"? There is something about the concept of eternity that we are not quite grasping. I think God's judgment is eternal (that is, not bound by time), but changeable; in the way a person can commit a mortal sin, and thus drat himself to Hell forever, and yet he can confess it, and be welcomed back into eternal Paradise. There is also the question of what God intends to do after bringing this world to a close, after its time has finished executing and the Second Coming ends the universe. Will he create a new world? A new Heavens and a new Earth? We get a bit into questioning the motives of God here, which also interests me; I suspect it is in no small part amusement. I wouldn't hold any of the above as proper doctrinal thinking, I'm sure it likely contains some errors, but it seems plausible enough at my current level of study. The Ender posted:Assuming that this is not a joke post: God has given me the knowledge that it happened.
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Nov 26, 2014 07:36
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How did God give the knowledge? Did you fall over and hit your head on something one afternoon, and when you got back up suddenly it was all so clear? quote:The concept of eternity, which is essential to thoughts of the divine, is an interesting one, as it transcends the concept of time. For God has created time, as he created space. The world God knows, thethat in Heavenly realm, has neither time nor space, and the best analogy we have in thinking about it would be another dimension. For him, all moments on Earth are viewable simultaneously, like all places, and all minds. And if he places you aside from him, he does it for all time; and yet, if he wishes, he can also retrieve you from that place, for all time. None of this is mentioned in the Torah. Or even the NT. This is all contemporary fantasy, reinterpretation & window dressing sitting on top of a mythology that involved a powerful but nevertheless mortal OT deity (Yahweh) telling his people how to worship, wage war and perform rituals. Yahweh mentions multiple times that he is unable to overcome certain arms, he uses very conventional & violent means to dispatch his enemies and he requires certain rituals be performed to maintain his power. The NT is much more romantic, plainly influenced by greek literature, but again - Jesus makes no mention of some extraplanar existence or omniscience. The stories involving apparent magic are mostly allegorical, and even if we were to take them literally, the miracles could be reproduced by most stage magicians. I thought you said you'd read the Bible and understood it?
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Nov 26, 2014 07:57
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Kyrie eleison posted:God has given me the knowledge that it happened. That's called being insane.
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Nov 26, 2014 07:59
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The Ender posted:How did God give the knowledge? Did you fall over and hit your head on something one afternoon, and when you got back up suddenly it was all so clear? Yes, I've read it, and it's astoundingly clear and repeated throughout the Bible that the Lord whose name you write in vain, is in fact the one true God, who created the universe, knows all and sees all, and is the giver of all wisdom. But you are not reading it with any intention of understanding its message.
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Nov 26, 2014 08:01
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If God can't take me saying "you're a bitch God," then I'm better than him. I'm his God.
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Nov 26, 2014 08:05
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SedanChair posted:If God can't take me saying "you're a bitch God," then I'm better than him. I'm his God. I assure you he can endure the insult, but you will not be able to endure the consequences.
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Nov 26, 2014 08:06
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VitalSigns posted:Money is actually worthless, give it all to the Church, they'll take it off your hands The only thing that's really disappointed me about Francis is his lack of style compared to Benedict. I prefer my Wizard-King straight pimpin'.
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Nov 26, 2014 08:09
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Kyrie eleison posted:Yes, I've read it, and it's astoundingly clear and repeated throughout the Bible that the Lord whose name you write in vain, is in fact the one true God, who created the universe, knows all and sees all, and is the giver of all wisdom. But you are not reading it with any intention of understanding its message. quote:And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. Can you explain why the LORD, fighting with his chosen people, was unable to overcome the guys with the chariots?
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Nov 26, 2014 08:12
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Kyrie eleison posted:I assure you he can endure the insult, but you will not be able to endure the consequences. So he'll punish me super hard? And what'll that avail him?
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Nov 26, 2014 08:26
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The Ender posted:Can you explain why the LORD, fighting with his chosen people, was unable to overcome the guys with the chariots? Because it was not His will that the army of Judah defeat the guys with the chariots at that time. SedanChair posted:So he'll punish me super hard? And what'll that avail him? Who knows? Some satisfaction, I suspect.
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Nov 26, 2014 08:31
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Kyrie eleison posted:Who knows? Some satisfaction, I suspect. An omnipotent being would experience satisfaction? Sounds like a bitch to me
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Nov 26, 2014 08:35
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SedanChair posted:An omnipotent being would experience satisfaction? Sounds like a bitch to me Why not? What would you do if you were omnipotent? So far as I can tell, the big problem with omnipotence is boredom.
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Nov 26, 2014 08:40
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Kyrie eleison posted:Because it was not His will that the army of Judah defeat the guys with the chariots at that time. The passage does not say he did not will it or did not want to, it says he could not, which is significantly different. It's within the context of several passages where Yahweh is leading onward the conquest of different territories & cities - it was very much his will & desire to drive out those people in the valley, but they had chariots, and the cavalry repulsed them. Later on Yahweh had to resort to violent coercion of city inhabitants to show his army weaknesses in the enemy defenses so that they could be exploited. Why does an all powerful super being need spies to find gaps in city fortifications? ...Also, like... quote:Now after the death of Joshua it came to pass, that the children of Israel asked the LORD, saying, Who shall go up for us against the Canaanites first, to fight against them? And the LORD said, Judah shall go up: behold, I have delivered the land into his hand. And Judah said unto Simeon his brother, Come up with me into my lot, that we may fight against the Canaanites; and I likewise will go with thee into thy lot. So Simeon went with him. And Judah went up; and the LORD delivered the Canaanites and the Perizzites into their hand: and they slew of them in Bezek ten thousand men. And they found Adonibezek in Bezek: and they fought against him, and they slew the Canaanites and the Perizzites. But Adonibezek fled; and they pursued after him, and caught him, and cut off his thumbs and his great toes. And Adonibezek said, Threescore and ten kings, having their thumbs and their great toes cut off, gathered their meat under my table: as I have done, so God hath requited me. And they brought him to Jerusalem, and there he died. Why is Yahweh demanding that his armies start torturing people by cutting off their fingers and toes and poo poo? Why is he telling them to eat said fingers and toes? That's pretty hosed-up. Sounds like the actions of a bronze age warlord rather than the actions of some almighty & supremely wise deity.
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Nov 26, 2014 08:40
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Kyrie eleison posted:Why not? I could have compassion, and empathy, for the beings in my creation?
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Nov 26, 2014 08:45
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Kyrie eleison posted:I assure you he can endure the insult, but you will not be able to endure the consequences. God is dead, fool. Get with the times.
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Nov 26, 2014 08:49
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Kyrie eleison posted:Why not? What would you do if you were omnipotent?
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Nov 26, 2014 08:53
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The Ender posted:The passage does not say he did not will it or did not want to, it says he could not, which is significantly different. It's within the context of several passages where Yahweh is leading onward the conquest of different territories & cities - it was very much his will & desire to drive out those people in the valley, but they had chariots, and the cavalry repulsed them. Later on Yahweh had to resort to violent coercion of city inhabitants to show his army weaknesses in the enemy defenses so that they could be exploited. Why does an all powerful super being need spies to find gaps in city fortifications? God is pretty metal, dude. Rappaport posted:I could have compassion, and empathy, for the beings in my creation? What compassion and empathy do you have for someone who insults you? Especially a being you have created? Vaall posted:God is dead, fool. Get with the times. You mean... the end times?
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Nov 26, 2014 08:53
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Someone called me a bitch once. So I set him on fire. Then I used magic to keep him alive so I could set him on fire over and over and relish the stench and the screams. That's my supreme goodness at work right there. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Nov 26, 2014 |
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Nov 26, 2014 08:58
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Kyrie eleison posted:What compassion and empathy do you have for someone who insults you? Especially a being you have created? The same I would have for anyone else? That I would not wish upon anyone anything but good things, a full belly and merriment, the fulfillment of their personal goals?
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Nov 26, 2014 08:59
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VitalSigns posted:Someone called me a bitch once. So I set him on fire. Then I I used magic to keep him alive so I could set him on fire over and over and relish the stench and the screams. Frank Castle really is the greatest superhero.
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Nov 26, 2014 09:00
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VitalSigns posted:Someone called me a bitch once. So I set him on fire. Then I used magic to keep him alive so I could set him on fire over and over and relish the stench and the screams. Rappaport posted:The same I would have for anyone else? That I would not wish upon anyone anything but good things, a full belly and merriment, the fulfillment of their personal goals? Yeah, sure. 
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Nov 26, 2014 09:08
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Go gently caress yourself Kyrie.
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Nov 26, 2014 09:10
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Kyrie eleison posted:Yeah, sure. A being of infinite wisdom and infinite resources would hold petty grudges and resentments, mete out infinite punishments for finite transgressions? This is what you wish to venerate and hold dear? I pity you.
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Nov 26, 2014 09:15
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Rappaport posted:A being of infinite wisdom and infinite resources would hold petty grudges and resentments, mete out infinite punishments for finite transgressions? This is what you wish to venerate and hold dear? I pity you. Why do you hate yourself?
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Nov 26, 2014 09:19
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Kyrie eleison posted:Why do you hate yourself? Sie bitte? Rappaport fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Nov 26, 2014 |
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Nov 26, 2014 09:20
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Kyrie eleison posted:Yes, I've read it, and it's astoundingly clear and repeated throughout the Bible that the Lord whose name you write in vain, is in fact the one true God, who created the universe, knows all and sees all, and is the giver of all wisdom. But you are not reading it with any intention of understanding its message. Also, this focus on the text of the Bible seems decidedly... protestant. Are you sure you haven't slid into heresy? Perhaps your prayers merely anger God. Perhaps he's tricked you, for the joy of hearing your eternal torment screams!!
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Nov 26, 2014 09:28
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Kyrie eleison posted:;___; - why is God burning me it's so unfair all I did was call him a bitch! Geez! Yes this is the sane response to... oh wait poo poo you are being sarcastic  Love how it only takes a little bit to get "loving" Christians to whack their cocks and cum huge loads over the thought of eternal torture for the horrible crime of...insulting someone.
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Nov 26, 2014 09:32
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VitalSigns posted:Yes this is the sane response to... oh wait poo poo you are being sarcastic Extending the analogy, this does not mean the old fellow couldn't hold us responsible for our actions to some extent, dole out punishment, etc. and so forth, but eternity is a very large word.
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Nov 26, 2014 09:45
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All this fuss over some old guy who got killed when Sputnik hit him in the head.
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Nov 26, 2014 09:49
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Nessus posted:So there's a book, which says it's the final authority and source of all knowledge... and the evidence is that the final authority and source of all knowledge says that the book is that! This seems like a syllogism. Is this another miracle? The book says that the Creator is the final authority and source of all knowledge, which is obviously true. And since the human authors of this book speak with reverence of him, and with consistency in teaching, they speak using the Spirit, and thus their Word is inerrant. quote:Also, this focus on the text of the Bible seems decidedly... protestant. Are you sure you haven't slid into heresy? Perhaps your prayers merely anger God. Perhaps he's tricked you, for the joy of hearing your eternal torment screams!! As if Protestants know anything of the text! They removed seven whole books from it, that's how much they value the Sacred Scriptures... anyway, of course the Bible and its teachings are central to Catholicism. Catholics compiled the thing! VitalSigns posted:Yes this is the sane response to... oh wait poo poo you are being sarcastic Look at this hypocrisy! You who turn away from God, find it insane that He turns away from you? You who mock God, find it insane that He mocks you? You think it isn't fair? Nessus posted:If God is so all-fired superior to us, while still being analogous to us, sending any human to eternal torment - literally eternal - would be like throwing an infant in the meat grinder because it pissed on the rug, because we literally are incapable of knowing any better. I write a post about eternity before, equating it with "timeless" rather than "unchanging". The earliest writing of "unquenching fire" comes from the prophet Isaiah, who describes it in the last verse he ever wrote: "They shall go out and see the corpses of the people who rebelled against me; For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be extinguished; and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh." I am open to the possibility of salvation from Hell, but only through repentance.
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Nov 26, 2014 09:53
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Kyrie eleison posted:Look at this hypocrisy! You who turn away from God, find it insane that He turns away from you? You who mock God, find it insane that He mocks you? You think it isn't fair? I'm not sure where the hypocrisy is? I mean, YHWH's been dead since 1957, and Laika's a good dog, yes she is, so I'm not sure how anyone's not supposed to find the idea that they might still face eternal punishment after death for insulting YHWH's crusty old man peen anything but preposterous.
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Nov 26, 2014 10:10
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Kyrie eleison posted:;___; - why is God burning me it's so unfair all I did was call him a bitch! Geez! If god is burning someone merely for calling it a "bitch", then god must be very small indeed. Kyrie eleison posted:I assure you he can endure the insult, but you will not be able to endure the consequences. If it can endure the insult, then why are there consequences at all? Gizmoduck_5000 fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Nov 26, 2014 |
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Nov 26, 2014 10:26
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Kyrie eleison posted:The book says that the Creator is the final authority and source of all knowledge, which is obviously true. And since the human authors of this book speak with reverence of him, and with consistency in teaching, they speak using the Spirit, and thus their Word is inerrant. Kyrie eleison posted:Look at this hypocrisy! You who turn away from God, find it insane that He turns away from you? You who mock God, find it insane that He mocks you? You think it isn't fair? Well it would be hypocritical of me, having set God on fire forever, to object to Him doing the same to me... oh wait poo poo, I didn't set Him on fire at all, yet Christians are still threatening me with burning for eternally just for disagreeing with them. Well then. I mean I'm cool with the whole turning away from me thing, that's fine if God doesn't want to hang out. It's the part where you threaten me with eternal suffering that's hosed up and horrible.
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Nov 26, 2014 10:33
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Gizmoduck_5000 posted:If god is burning someone merely for calling it a "bitch", then god must be very small indeed. What is your reaction when one of your creation calls you a bitch? Gizmoduck_5000 posted:If it can endure the insult,then why are there consequences at all? I said that he can endure it, not that it doesn't sting. All insults have consequences. VitalSigns posted:Even if the Creator is obviously real and is the final authority of all knowledge, that doesn't mean any particular random douchebag claiming to speak for Him "with reverence" is automatically right. For an example, see: your opinion on Mohammed. Mohammad is inconsistent with prior teaching, which I listed as essential criteria. quote:Well it would be hypocritical of me, having set God on fire forever, to object to Him doing the same to me... oh wait poo poo, I didn't set Him on fire at all, yet Christians are still threatening me with burning for eternally just for disagreeing with them. Well then. Very well -- by your request, I will tune you out, and let your life play out naturally, come what may. And upon your death, I will not attend your funeral, and you can simply cease existence, and be forgotten. And if you come calling to me for help, I will say, "I never knew you."
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Nov 26, 2014 10:50
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quote:Look at this hypocrisy! You who turn away from God, find it insane that He turns away from you? You who mock God, find it insane that He mocks you? You think it isn't fair? Of course it isn't. You're proposing a being with power, intellect & morality well beyond that of a human being - a human issuing a petty insult at a deity must be about equivalent as best to a cat clawing your leg. Is it then totally appropriate to beat the cat or light it on fire because, hey, those claws hurt? You also never really explained how this awesome deity somehow got bested by some guys with light cavalry or why he needed human spies to infiltrate a settlement's defenses. Also, why did he need to rest after claiming to have erected the firmament and pillars and poo poo? Also, why did he claim to erect the firmament and pillars and poo poo when none of those things actually exist?
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Nov 26, 2014 10:52
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The Ender posted:Of course it isn't. You're proposing a being with power, intellect & morality well beyond that of a human being - a human issuing a petty insult at a deity must be about equivalent as best to a cat clawing your leg. Is it then totally appropriate to beat the cat or light it on fire because, hey, those claws hurt? Very well; I will release the cat into the wilderness where it will no longer pester me. quote:You also never really explained how this awesome deity somehow got bested by some guys with light cavalry or why he needed human spies to infiltrate a settlement's defenses. Also, why did he need to rest after claiming to have erected the firmament and pillars and poo poo? Also, why did he claim to erect the firmament and pillars and poo poo when none of those things actually exist? Because your first question is almost identical to the one before, so I hoped you could extrapolate the answer using your brain. And He rested because He wanted to. Seriously -- do you have any critical thinking ability at all?
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Nov 26, 2014 11:04
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