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Guys how absurd not to pay attention to the many changes judeo-christian religion has gone through over time. These are basically different gods they're praying to, hell even the God of the Gospels is all over the loving place. Anyway, as I was saying, this is the religion I believe is irrefutably true and real,
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Nov 26, 2014 22:10
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SedanChair posted:Guys how absurd not to pay attention to the many changes judeo-christian religion has gone through over time. These are basically different gods they're praying to, hell even the God of the Gospels is all over the loving place. One God, man. One God. Many interpretations of him, all the true ones. But one god.
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Nov 26, 2014 22:13
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Yeah. basically. It is really weird that so many non-believers are essentially literalists, even though they allegedly reject these stories as false. If you think someone is wrong, then why accept the thinking that lead them to the wrong conclusion? Listen to the wisdom of Obi-wan: "Who is more foolish, the 'fool', or the one who follows him?" Panzeh posted:Like bribe African politicians to enact death penalties for gays. hosed up if true. I haven't heard this, do you have some links? down with slavery posted:did Jesus masturbate? Probably, at least before he dedicated himself to his mission. Sex isn't sinful, unless you're somehow harming yourself or others. Try not to do that! CommieGIR posted:If god exists, would god send himself to hell? Forgiving oneself is an important half of forgiveness. "All sin" means every possible bad thing you can think of.
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Nov 26, 2014 22:58
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Black Bones posted:hosed up if true. I haven't heard this, do you have some links? FRC funded legislation in Uganda to make homosexual acts a life imprisonment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Research_Council#Ugandan_Resolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Act,_2014 The law was invalidated in August 2014, granted, because they claimed it did not have the required votes, not that it was evil or wrong. Black Bones posted:Yeah. basically. You misunderstand our purpose. Our purpose is to bring up issues and watch people jump through irrational hoops to explain them. Its fun. Because you have to be able to twist the stories to make them fit into some grand scheme of a religion in general. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Nov 26, 2014 |
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Nov 26, 2014 23:10
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Black Bones posted:Yeah. basically. How is it weird? I'm a literalistic of Star Wars but just because I'm aware of what happens in Episode 1 scene 3 doesn't mean I think it's real. It's funny that you quoted Obi-wan. Many non-believers are literalists because they either studied the hell out of the bible in hopes of overcoming their doubts or they're well versed on the stupid poo poo all through it to debate actual literalists. It's not weird in the slightest. I mean donkey emissions, shebears, and that whole section of God having a fun gambling session with Satan is pretty fun.
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Nov 26, 2014 23:16
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Rappaport posted:Like VitalSigns said, there's really no way of telling what the creature would do; a child raised in a society devoted to it would probably perceive it differently and behave accordingly, either out of fear, hope or whatever, but as a person raised without religion I perceive the hypothetical creature as a monstrosity. Any citizen of Best Korea tries to abide by the insane society they've been cast into, but if Jong-Un could actually tell who was honest in their love of him and who was not, the situation would be far more dire than it is now. And it's pretty drat dire. If you're relatively certain you can't kow-tow to the monstrous deity, why even bother trying? As you say, anyone not pleasing to the monster would go down the memory hole and/or get tortured eternally. The threat of eternal torture would sway many, perhaps including me, but history has shown that people are capable of great sacrifice in defense of their own values. I could not appease the monster, so I might as well spend my life trying to adjust to the idea of eternal tortures, since the monster has created me with the properties that condemn me to said torture no matter what I do. Or at best leaves me incapable of knowing beforehand whether the eternal torture awaits me. There are those who show great determination, who willingly suffer Hell, and try to convince others to suffer Hell with them, in their spite for God, though they know they can never defeat Him. They are called Satan and his angels. But even in this defiance, they are merely the tools of God, and he could forcefully change their minds in an instant.
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Nov 26, 2014 23:20
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Buckwheat Sings posted:How is it weird? I'm a literalistic of Star Wars but just because I'm aware of what happens in Episode 1 scene 3 doesn't mean I think it's real. It's funny that you quoted Obi-wan. It's not weird, I suppose, but it is very telling. Literalism is the particular realm of American Evangelicalism, and curiously it is in opposition to American Evangelicalism that most atheists define and articulate their arguments. Which makes sense, considering the prevalence of that particular form of belief in American public life. Also, it's so much easier to poke holes in a literalistic interpretation of the Bible, as opposed to discussing it with someone who looks at from a more critical tradition - say, a Catholic or Orthodox believer or a member of one of the mainline Protestant churches. In fact discussions between the latter and atheists tend to end up with "hmm yes we agree on these things" which is nice over coffee but not very exciting on an internet forum where we're competing to be the most edgy.
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Nov 26, 2014 23:25
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Black Bones posted:It is really weird that so many non-believers are essentially literalists, even though they allegedly reject these stories as false. If you think someone is wrong, then why accept the thinking that lead them to the wrong conclusion? You can assume for the sake of argument that something is true in order to explore whether that results in a contradiction, and if it does then you reject the original assumption as a result. It's actually a form of reasoning that's like thousands of years old, not sure why you've never heard of it.
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Nov 26, 2014 23:31
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Kyrie eleison posted:There are those who show great determination, who willingly suffer Hell, and try to convince others to suffer Hell with them, in their spite for God, though they know they can never defeat Him. They are called Satan and his angels. And Muslims and Protestants and those evil schismatic Byzantine Greeks, right? Didn't you say in the other thread that everyone who isn't a Catholic actually secretly knows that Catholicism is true and rejects it out of spite? Kyrie eleison posted:The truthful answer, although most won't like to hear it, is that someone may claim that they are speaking from the Spirit, and even believe it on some level, but they are actually being misled by the devil. The Spirit never contradicts himself. If you want to know what the orthodox teaching is on a subject, there are readily available and more informative resources than simply intuition. Proper education is essential to having a coherent theology, as is an earnest willingness to appreciate God's will. Awwww yeah that's the stuff 
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Nov 26, 2014 23:33
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Kyrie eleison posted:There are those who show great determination, who willingly suffer Hell, and try to convince others to suffer Hell with them, in their spite for God, though they know they can never defeat Him. They are called Satan and his angels.
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Nov 26, 2014 23:50
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Nessus posted:It seems as though we were all created just to be the toy soldiers of a creature beyond our understanding. Even our thoughts and our dreams are not safe. How do you know you are not being guided to give such a dismaying interpretation? Actually Allah the All-Wise and All-Powerful took a dislike to Kyrie, and has reached in and hardened his heart against the truth of Mohammed's (pbuh) revelation so Allah may show His power by punishing the heretics like Kyrie that He in His Wisdom has created.
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Nov 27, 2014 00:08
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The magic of tautology, of course.
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Nov 27, 2014 00:08
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Kyrie eleison posted:the tools of God Please talk more about your urge to torture retarded children. Or at least own up to calling that God's instinct and example of morality and appropriate compassion.
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Nov 27, 2014 00:25
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quote:It is really weird that so many non-believers are essentially literalists, even though they allegedly reject these stories as false. If you think someone is wrong, then why accept the thinking that lead them to the wrong conclusion? I think it's foolish to frame the Bible as one document with a homogenized literary framework when we know it was written by multiple authors (and extensively edited) over a long span of time with different motives / writing styles. Some of it is plainly allegorical, and some of it (like the Judges passages) read more or less like a military propaganda pamphlet. When someone comes around thumping a volume that in my experience they haven't even read half of and declaring it to be proof positive of their magical claims, I don't see the sense in trying to dissect allegorical stories rather than talking about the matter-of-fact propaganda that the book uses to describe the central deity. I mean, a lot of Dianetics is also allegorical. Would you then criticize someone for being a literalist hack just because they directly confront the junk science that a Scientologist starts spewing rather than get into a philosophical jerk-off session about what it really means to be human?
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Nov 27, 2014 00:33
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Nessus posted:It seems as though we were all created just to be the toy soldiers of a creature beyond our understanding. Even our thoughts and our dreams are not safe. How do you know you are not being guided to give such a dismaying interpretation? I am being guided to give the true interpretation, as best as I know it. How you interpret it is up to you. If one tries to whitewash religion for the faint of heart, atheists say, "but that is against the teachings!", and they are right. So I will give you the official teachings, the true gospel, and you can make your choice as to whether you would rather be in Heaven or Hell. In the meantime, enjoy this gift of life, which none of us deserve.
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Nov 27, 2014 00:40
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Kyrie eleison, can you read classical Aramaic or Koine Greek?
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Nov 27, 2014 00:40
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Kyrie eleison posted:I am being guided to give the true interpretation, as best as I know it. How you interpret it is up to you. If one tries to whitewash religion for the faint of heart, atheists say, "but that is against the teachings!", and they are right. So I will give you the official teachings, the true gospel, and you can make your choice as to whether you would rather be in Heaven or Hell. In the meantime, enjoy this gift of life, which none of us deserve. 
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Nov 27, 2014 00:40
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Kyrie eleison posted:I am being guided to give the true interpretation, as best as I know it. How you interpret it is up to you. If one tries to whitewash religion for the faint of heart, atheists say, "but that is against the teachings!", and they are right. So I will give you the official teachings, the true gospel, and you can make your choice as to whether you would rather be in Heaven or Hell. In the meantime, enjoy this gift of life, which none of us deserve.  Official teachings of the true gospelWe deserve the gift of life. But we were not given it by some supreme being, we were given it by our parents. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Nov 27, 2014 |
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Nov 27, 2014 00:44
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Kyrie eleison posted:I am being guided to give the true interpretation, as best as I know it. No that's Puppetmaster Allah making you determined to spite Him and His Prophet, just like He does with devil's and evil djinns.
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Nov 27, 2014 00:48
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Kyrie eleison posted:In the meantime, enjoy this gift of life, which none of us deserve. What a horribly sad belief you have. It really explains a lot about you. But you should know that it's not true; you do deserve life, you do deserve to be happy, and you don't need to be ashamed of who you are.
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Nov 27, 2014 00:58
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Kyrie eleison posted:What is your reaction when one of your creation calls you a bitch? I would uh, oh um, what's the term, uhhhh geez it was uhhh....oh yeah, turn the other cheek.
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Nov 27, 2014 01:10
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXb7do9C-w Kyrie, you sound like a broken person. I mean it's awesome you found religion since you can at least form a life around it compared to other things but geez man.
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Nov 27, 2014 01:14
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Kyrie eleison posted:I am being guided to give the true interpretation, as best as I know it. How you interpret it is up to you. If one tries to whitewash religion for the faint of heart, atheists say, "but that is against the teachings!", and they are right. So I will give you the official teachings, the true gospel, and you can make your choice as to whether you would rather be in Heaven or Hell. In the meantime, enjoy this gift of life, which none of us deserve. I'd hardly call any interpretation of the universe's cosmology that doesn't come from Phil at the overpass on Powell true.
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Nov 27, 2014 02:26
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Who What Now posted:What a horribly sad belief you have. It really explains a lot about you. But you should know that it's not true; you do deserve life, you do deserve to be happy, and you don't need to be ashamed of who you are. If I remember right from the last thread, Kyrie's gay/attracted to other men (however you choose to define it) but consider that it's wrong to follow through on such attraction and thus believe God requires him to live a life of separation and abstinence. I swear I'm not making this up (and I apologize if I'm mistaking someone else for you, Kyrie) and just trying to recall whether it was him that said that, or someone else. If my memory does serve, I think it helps illustrated why he believes such things about not deserving life/happiness on their own terms Captain_Maclaine fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Nov 27, 2014 |
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Nov 27, 2014 03:53
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Captain_Maclaine posted:If I remember right from the last thread, Kyrie's gay/attracted to other men (however you choose to define it) but consider that it's wrong to follow through on such attraction and thus believe God requires him to live a life of separation and abstinence. That's pretty silly considering Laika doesn't care whose crotch you sniff.
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Nov 27, 2014 03:57
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Man I sure am glad I sentenced that insouciant flatworm to hellfire a billion years ago. I mean, the life forms I torture nowadays are vast sentient clouds of matter who communicate by way of flashing galactic storms, but never mind. Never mind, I held that smart-rear end flatworm to account for his defiant flippancy, and the sentient clouds'll be joining him soon enuff 
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Nov 27, 2014 06:01
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So to review, you believe a judgement requires a 'law' between the two subjects (judge and defendant), and as the the arbiter of the 'ultimate law', you can't judge 'god'. Correct? There are two problems I have with that. The first problem I'm having, as you guess, is I think you're metaphysicalizing law (or 'gods law' or whatever) as a 'thing' that exists in the universe. I cannot accept that, not at face value at least. Values and judgements exists from the perspective of a subject, they are not an object in the universe. 'Law' is an agreement between subjects, but again does not exist as an object. The second problem is the way you're treating this law: it automatically supersedes any other law. It is an 'ultimate' law right? But I can't interpret that as anything other than you're own judgement. You (and supposing god) believe in it's 'ultimate' nature, but what does that matter to anyone else? But okay, you believe both of these to be so. An argument takes premises, and results in a conclusion. Construct an argument, with premises of that are purely descriptive, that result in a normative conclusion. If this 'ultimate law' is truly an object, this should be possible. If, on the other hand, it's not possible, then that would bring into question your objection, no? Your talk on standards again is similar: law as object, god creates all objects, so has control. But what follows is a little different, so I'll take it on its own terms: Criticism of god on the subject's own terms use their own understanding, if you believe that understanding is incorrect (angry sky man as opposed to god) then by all means, talk about that understanding on a case by case basis. But that does not imply a lack of standards. Secondly, as for the strange nature, I'm not really seeing how 'evil' and 'laziness' conflict. Though I suppose something that seeks evil at every turn cannot be lazy, I still think it's valid to call something evil based on its actions without worrying about the, uh, lost opportunity costs of pure evil.
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Nov 27, 2014 08:06
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OP, if Jesus really is the only thing that matters... why bother even having an Internet connection, much less paying 15+ bucks to post with an avatar on the SA forums? Do you have any possessions? If so, why? Jesus is the only thing that matters. If it was his will that you have anything, he would surely provide it anyway. Do you eat food or drink beverages? Why? You might be denying him his will; if he wanted to be fed, you would never go hungry no matter how little you ate. Do you have friends or family? I sure hope not, because Jesus is literally the sole thing in the universe that matters at all. If he wanted you to have friends or a family, he would pick them out for you. Staying with the ones you chose is selfish - dare I say even sinful. An act of hubris and avarice, thinking that you deserve those things and that you know yourself & what's good for you better than Jesus does.
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Nov 27, 2014 08:16
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Just to be clear, everyone realizes kyrie is a troll right? I cant be the only one to notice it?
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Nov 27, 2014 08:36
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Kyrie eleison posted:I am being guided to give the true interpretation, as best as I know it. How you interpret it is up to you. If one tries to whitewash religion for the faint of heart, atheists say, "but that is against the teachings!", and they are right. So I will give you the official teachings, the true gospel, and you can make your choice as to whether you would rather be in Heaven or Hell. In the meantime, enjoy this gift of life, which none of us deserve. Cool story, but there is no God, Kyrie Eleison.
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Nov 27, 2014 08:40
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Rexicon1 posted:Just to be clear, everyone realizes kyrie is a troll right? I cant be the only one to notice it? we all troll down here!
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Nov 27, 2014 08:42
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Rexicon1 posted:Just to be clear, everyone realizes kyrie is a troll right? I cant be the only one to notice it? d&d always has been and always will be the stupidest loving forum on SA, easier to troll than a literal transethnic tumblr otherkin
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Nov 27, 2014 11:21
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just roll around in the mud Cover yourself in excrement and dive into the deep end of the mudslop That's the dnd way
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Nov 27, 2014 13:03
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Please keep up the extremely good work itt brother Kyrie.Kyrie eleison posted:The Church does uphold predestination, which is attested to in the Bible. It just does not reject free will, and interestingly neither does Zizek in his "nuanced" theology. You can look at CCC 600 for the official Catholic teaching on predestination and free will. Well naturally the church believes in some form of predestination because it is, like you said, the scriptural view. The real question is salvation by exchange versus salvation by election, where the Catholic Church seems to lean towards the former. Miltank fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Nov 27, 2014 |
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Nov 27, 2014 13:27
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Kyrie eleison posted:There are those who show great determination, who willingly suffer Hell, and try to convince others to suffer Hell with them, in their spite for God, though they know they can never defeat Him. They are called Satan and his angels. If you think that atheists are literally Satan's Angels you should probably get mental help. Actually I'd recommend in general that you do so regardless.
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Nov 27, 2014 13:38
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SedanChair posted:These are basically different gods they're praying to, hell even the God of the Gospels is all over the loving place. Right monotheism changes over time. One god highest among many gods to one god of particular nation to one God of the the entire world (and that really only happens when there is a state that thinks of itself as the entire world). And eventually you get to things like conceptualizations of God as the truth underlying reality or God as the ineffable real. paragon1 posted:So which one is the Real Christian God? "All of them" and "none of them" are not acceptable answers. "It is customary in Christian language to think of God as that which is alone finally real" - A Christian Theology of Religion John Hicks. But apparently customary in Christian language = esoteric CommieGIR posted:So how does that work into a monotheistic system? God just changed his mind after committing multiple genocidal crimes? I keep trying to communicate this but it doesn't get through. Talk about God is talk about us, about humanity. We are the ones doing the talking, people wrote the texts, people make the arguments. And that is true about talk about God in the OT, too.
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Nov 27, 2014 13:50
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Yes BrandorKP we get it, you have your own made-up definitions for common words, but literally no one else is willing to use your definitions because they are dumb, unnecessarily broad, and confusing because you never explain them until pressed.
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Nov 27, 2014 13:58
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You are mad that you don't understand.
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Nov 27, 2014 14:02
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Guys, BrandorKP is a good poster, but if you don't like him then don't just hurl abuse or whatever, that's dumb. At the very least, kyrie's thinking is way more questionable than brandor's.
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Nov 27, 2014 14:08
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rudatron posted:Guys, BrandorKP is a good poster, but if you don't like him then don't just hurl abuse or whatever, that's dumb. At the very least, kyrie's thinking is way more questionable than brandor's. No, it just sounds more moderate and is written in a less archaic, insufferable tone. it's equally batshit
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Nov 27, 2014 15:16
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