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My Imaginary GF posted:AIPAC is a domestic lobby in America on a foreign policy issue. To label such lobbies as 'foreigners who need to be expelled' is a case of anti-semitism, even though you've much too freely accused individuals of anti-semitism in your previous posts. For the record you were completely incorrect, technically and otherwise. Don't go all meta because you got found out.
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Nov 28, 2014 15:07
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Even if we were to accept that Jerusalem does not appear in the Koran that doesn't magically override the fact that it holds huge religious significance for Muslims today. I mean there's no mention of the Vatican and Pope in the Bible but they're undeniably hugely important to Catholics. e: Don't bother responding with interpretations, for it to meet your standards it literally has to contain the words "Pope" and "Vatican".
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Nov 28, 2014 15:18
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The only reason MIGF and TIC aren't on my ignore list is that they are a easy way to regain Rage Points.
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Nov 28, 2014 17:04
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MonsieurChoc posted:The only reason MIGF and TIC aren't on my ignore list is that they are a easy way to regain Rage Points. My eyes just glass oer any time I see MIGF. Seriously ignore him. So according to Mondoweiss Avigdor has unveiled his parties new solution to the Palestinians in pre 1967 Israel. Pay them to get out. http://mondoweiss.net/2014/11/lieberman-unveils-palestinians Wish I could quote but for some reason cannot copy and paste. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 17:16
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Crowsbeak posted:My eyes just glass oer any time I see MIGF. Well they have the world's most moral army™, why not also have the world's most moral ethnic cleansing?
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Nov 28, 2014 17:36
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Even if we were to accept that Jerusalem does not appear in the Koran that doesn't magically override the fact that it holds huge religious significance for Muslims today. I mean there's no mention of the Vatican and Pope in the Bible but they're undeniably hugely important to Catholics. Well, considering il duce pope is officially called: quote:Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the Vatican City State, Servant of the servants of God. an argument can be made that he retains an iterative of titles awarded to Caesar. The Pope is head of the Roman bureaucracy in Western Europe and takes his authority directly from his position over that bureaucracy. The point is a larger one: for Palestinians to claim faith in interpretations without critical thinking on the methodologies which derived those interpretations is a bad-faith gesture towards the Israelis. Fortunately, concepts of faith have little place in diplomacy--its all about politics anyway. So yes, the Rabbi is technically correct: the kind of legalistic, pedantic correctness the Palestinians need more of if they want to be treated like respectable statesmen and not just a bunch of rabble revolting against the existance of non-arab state institutions.
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Nov 28, 2014 18:10
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MIGF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTduy7Qkvk8
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Nov 28, 2014 18:15
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A ballad to a Druze, by Yonatan Gefen. (I wanted to link to an article someone posted fairly recently comparing the Sikh and Duze positions as "plucky warrior cultures" co-opted by the Brits and Israelis here, but I can't seem to find it) בכפר ירוק במורדות הכרמל, נולד בן נאמן למדינת ישראל. למד בבית הספר, בנים לחוד, שתי שעות מוחמד ושלוש שעות ציונות. דהר קדימה, עם הרוח שנשבה, בגיל שמונה עשרה התגייס לצבא, דווקא לסיירת ואחר כך קורס קצינים. מפקדיו התגאו בו וחילקו לו ציונים ואמרו: נו עם הדובון ועם העוזי מי יכול היה לראות שהוא דרוזי? בקרית שמונה מול אש ורוצחים הוא רץ ראשון ושלף אקדחים, וראשון נפל במעלה המדרגות, פצוע קשה ורגליו משותקות, ואלה שפינו אותו כבר הודיעו בחדשות: עם הדם שנשפך על הדובון והעוזי- מי יכול היה לראות שהוא דרוזי? למחרת, בהפגנה, אחיו של הפצוע בוכה בפינה. ולפתע, מבלי שקודם יחשוש, הוא מתחיל לקבל אבנים בראש, משום שבלי הדובון ובלי העוזי כולם ראו עד כמה שהוא דרוזי. In a green village at the feet of Mount Carmel A loyal son is born to the state of Israel Taught at his school (a boys only class) Two hours on Muhammad and three on Zionism to pass He rushed ahead with the tailwind And joined the army at eighteen. Specifically into the Sayeret and then an officers course His commanders took great pride, of course. (I believe I'll stop trying to rhyme now) And they said; with the Doobon and the Uzi, who on earth can see he's a Druze? At Kiryat Shmona, facing a murderers fire He forged ahead with his gun drawn And was the first to be wounded and collapse badly injured, his feet paralyzed And the medevac crew told the news: With that blood being spilled on the Doobon and the Uzi, who on earth can see he's a Druze? The next day, the demonstration starts while the wounded hero's brother cries aside When suddenly, without a word of warning he starts taking stone throws to the head Because without a Doobon and with no Uzi it was all too clear he's a Druze. ... Shame I can't find any recording of the ballad being performed. The Israeli internet kinda sucks that way. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Dec 29, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 18:19
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My Imaginary GF posted:So yes, the Rabbi is technically correct: the kind of legalistic, pedantic correctness the Palestinians need more of if they want to be treated like respectable statesmen and not just a bunch of rabble revolting against the existance of non-arab state institutions. Again, you cannot argue from power politics on one hand and from pedantic legalism on the other hand at the same time. One is bad enough, but the two together are wholly incoherent, because they have nothing to do with each other and are generally contradictory. And also again, the fact that your instincts are to stand up for cultural erasure shows how deeply unpleasant you are. Because that's what the good rabbi was engaging in, and you quoted the entire post and said, "well, is he incorrect?" Yes. Yes he was.
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Nov 28, 2014 18:35
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My Imaginary GF posted:Well, considering il duce pope is officially called:
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Nov 28, 2014 18:49
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You know Israel is not in any way in the US constitution. So we should probably not support it.
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Nov 28, 2014 18:52
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My Imaginary GF posted:Well, considering il duce pope is officially called: Yes, in exactly the same sense that an argument can be made that the rightful sovereign of the Holy Land is Felipe VI of Spain. You know, because he's the King of Jerusalem. But no sensible person would make that argument, would they? e: You use the word "intellectuals" quite wrongly, I think. Tacky-Ass Rococco fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 18:52
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Crowsbeak posted:You know Israel is not in any way in the US constitution. So we should probably not support it. I wouldn't be opposed to enshrining support for Israel in the Constitution. There has been some talk about this in the more radical quarters of the intellectuals.
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Nov 28, 2014 18:59
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For what its worth, there have been lots of solidarity, support and advice from Palestinians to protestors in Ferguson. Sorry if its a repost. I can't handle trying to slog through the last dozen pages of people dealing with MIGF.
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Nov 28, 2014 19:05
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My Imaginary GF posted:There has been some talk about this in the more radical quarters of the intellectuals.
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Nov 28, 2014 19:23
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quote:Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman on Friday published an updated platform for his party, Yisrael Beiteinu, which includes a “peace plan” that calls on the government to encourage the transfer of Israeli Arabs to a Palestinian state* by offering them “economic incentives.”
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Nov 28, 2014 19:23
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My Imaginary GF posted:I wouldn't be opposed to enshrining support for Israel in the Constitution. lol
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Nov 28, 2014 20:17
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Ograbme posted:Is this actually true? Its mostly a christian zionist position right now; yes, grassroots advocacy for this does exist in some quarters of American policy advocates. Compared to the grassroots non-Jewish lobbies, the predominantly-Jewish interests groups in America lobbying on Israeli foreign policy issues are much more moderate than this thread gives credit for.
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Nov 28, 2014 20:27
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oh I believe that there are idiots out there saying that, i just can't believe you actually voiced support for it (or didn't explicitly call them idiots) this is on par with texas secessionists
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Nov 28, 2014 20:30
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My Imaginary GF posted:Its mostly a christian zionist position right now; yes, grassroots advocacy for this does exist in some quarters of American policy advocates. Compared to the grassroots non-Jewish lobbies, the predominantly-Jewish interests groups in America lobbying on Israeli foreign policy issues are much more moderate than this thread gives credit for. If "moderate" just means "I can find someone crazier", the term loses all operational meaning. Also, by that standard, both Fatah and Hamas are moderates that Israel should be working with rather than cracked down upon. Glad to see we're on the same page, please pay your respects to ar-Rais Abbas at your earliest convenience, and do your damnedest to pressure the American administration to press Israel into freezing settlements, removing outposts, and allowing for free elections in the Territories with the view of negotiating with whoever gets the mandate to do so, whether they like them or not.
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Nov 28, 2014 20:34
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My Imaginary GF posted:I wouldn't be opposed to enshrining support for Israel in the Constitution. There has been some talk about this in the more radical quarters of the intellectuals. So, in your amoral "realist" pragmatism, you favor giving a foreign power effectively infinite leverage over the US government. How are you this poo poo at your own gimmick?
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Nov 28, 2014 20:41
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MeLKoR posted:
I've deciphered the code even further: quote:quote:
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Nov 28, 2014 20:43
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Jack of Hearts posted:So, in your amoral "realist" pragmatism, you favor giving a foreign power effectively infinite leverage over the US government. How are you this poo poo at your own gimmick? I favor Democrats winning elections. The definition of foreign is, in my view, an elastic and nuanced concept: there are Democratic voters and donors, and there are individuals who haven't yet realized they're Democratic voters and donors. Palestinians have made clear they are neither; until they begin to realize democratic principals and self-organize within appropriate structures for that end, there is little to discuss with them.
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Nov 28, 2014 20:46
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My Imaginary GF posted:The definition of foreign is, in my view, an elastic and nuanced concept what a surprise
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Nov 28, 2014 20:49
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My Imaginary GF posted:I favor Democrats winning elections. The definition of foreign is, in my view, an elastic and nuanced concept: there are Democratic voters and donors, and there are individuals who haven't yet realized they're Democratic voters and donors. Palestinians have made clear they are neither; until they begin to realize democratic principals and self-organize within appropriate structures for that end, there is little to discuss with them. I don't think you understand the base of your party very well. Remember how Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel had to be reinstated at the 2012 DNC without a clear majority, with the chair of the convention abusing his power for that purpose?
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Nov 28, 2014 20:51
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down with slavery posted:what a surprise Everyone is American; Israelis realize and react to the implications of this better than Palestinians. You can cut a deal with an Israeli; can you cut the same sort of deal with an arab? Well, Israel's foreign minister means to demonstrate that, no, you cannot cut a rational deal with a patrilinialist relative to the sort you can cut with a non-patrilinialist state. Absurd Alhazred posted:I don't think you understand the base of your party very well. Remember how Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel had to be reinstated at the 2012 DNC without a clear majority, with the chair of the convention abusing his power for that purpose? Like I've mentioned, true leadership is the ability to ignore your base in order to pursue policy in the state's best interest.
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Nov 28, 2014 20:51
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My Imaginary GF posted:I wouldn't be opposed to enshrining support for Israel in the Constitution. I want this quote framed.
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Nov 28, 2014 20:52
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My Imaginary GF posted:Everyone is American lol
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Nov 28, 2014 20:52
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My Imaginary GF posted:I wouldn't be opposed to enshrining support for Israel in the Constitution. There has been some talk about this in the more radical quarters of the intellectuals. What an un-American concept. My Imaginary GF posted:I favor Democrats winning elections. The definition of foreign is, in my view, an elastic and nuanced concept: there are Democratic voters and donors, and there are individuals who haven't yet realized they're Democratic voters and donors. Palestinians have made clear they are neither; until they begin to realize democratic principals and self-organize within appropriate structures for that end, there is little to discuss with them. You seem to have this idea that providing campaign contributions is equivalent to providing state treasury money, which is insane. American power will not be increased with campaign contributions. Money in the treasury is much much more important. If Israel wants Senate seats, they can join the US at the 51st state. My Imaginary GF posted:Like I've mentioned, true leadership is the ability to ignore your base in order to pursue policy in the state's best interest. I agree, this is why Israel must be annexed or its influence over the US must be removed. The US's best interest is to cut Israel off from our largesse and find more willing clients.
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Nov 28, 2014 20:53
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Panzeh posted:Money in the treasury is much much more important. If Israel wants Senate seats, they can join the US at the 51st state. My Imaginary GF posted:I wouldn't be opposed to enshrining support for Israel in the Constitution. There has been some talk about this in the more radical quarters of the intellectuals.
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Nov 28, 2014 20:54
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The US Constitution does not mention any state in particular. I see no need for Israel to be a special case. If they don't wish to, they don't have to be a state. Instead they can go and beg Putin for cash.
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Nov 28, 2014 20:56
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My Imaginary GF posted:You can cut a deal with an Israeli; can you cut the same sort of deal with an arab? Ah yes, the arab is shifty and untrustworthy, often prone to succumb to its most base urges, despite its primitive mode of thinking it is often wily and seeks to take advantage of the kindhearted nature of its caucasian and jewish betters.
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Nov 28, 2014 20:56
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My Imaginary GF posted:I favor Democrats winning elections. The definition of foreign is, in my view, an elastic and nuanced concept: there are Democratic voters and donors, and there are individuals who haven't yet realized they're Democratic voters and donors. What does this even mean? You want to give Israelis the vote in American elections? What is your "elastic and nuanced" view of foreignness? Not that this was in any way a response to what I said, unless you believe that demagoguing on Israel will win Democrats elections. And if you do, some little voice in your head should still be telling you that the idea is complete lunacy. George Washington spins once in his grave every time you post.
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Nov 28, 2014 20:56
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Ah yes, the arab is shifty and untrustworthy, often prone to succumb to its most base urges, despite its primitive mode of thinking it is often wily and seeks to take advantage of the kindhearted nature of its caucasian and jewish betters. There are different social and political dynamics for patrilinialist systems of order and systems of political order which funnel patrilinialist through institutional dynamics. Would you disagree? Jack of Hearts posted:Not that this was in any way a response to what I said, unless you believe that demagoguing on Israel will win Democrats elections. And if you do, some little voice in your head should still be telling you that the idea is complete lunacy. George Washington spins once in his grave every time you post. George Washington is dead. Dead men do not spin graves; that takes parts and labor and has numerous costs associated with it. Far cheaper to monumentalize than it is to continuously spin a grave. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 20:58
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My Imaginary GF posted:There are different social and political dynamics for patrilinialist systems of order and systems of political order which funnel patrilinialist through institutional dynamics. Would you disagree? You know it's funny, if you google 'patrilinialist' the only result is your posts.
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Nov 28, 2014 21:01
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emanresu tnuocca posted:You know it's funny, if you google 'patrilinialist' the only result is your posts. Try 'patrilineality'; my English spellings aren't always the best, I admit, especially on devices without spellcheck.
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Nov 28, 2014 21:03
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My Imaginary GF posted:Try 'patrilineality'; my English spellings aren't always the best, I admit, especially on devices without spellcheck. I did and by golly, the first result was literally "One cannot cut a deal with an arab". I'm going to join a Beitar Jerusalem fan club and
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Nov 28, 2014 21:07
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I did and by golly, the first result was literally "One cannot cut a deal with an arab". I'm going to join a Beitar Jerusalem fan club and See, this is why not all the world has realized they're American: There is only one Google, and it is Google.com.
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Nov 28, 2014 21:08
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My Imaginary GF posted:See, this is why not all the world has realized they're American: There is only one Google, and it is Google.com. The point being both your stance and perspective of thr I/P conflict is nonsensical and pedantic. Your take on the I/P conflict is just as imaginary as your girlfriend.
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Nov 28, 2014 21:12
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CommieGIR posted:The point being both your stance and perspective of thr I/P conflict is nonsensical and pedantic.  Now that we are done with the MIGF beatdown I would like to hear what the Israeli posters thoughts are on the coming election could Likud lose seats?
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Nov 28, 2014 21:26
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