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NikkolasKing posted:Speaking of Hawke, I just started the DA games and while I know he has a bit of a dark history and all that, Alistair seems like a lot of fun. His cheerfulness and snarkiness in the face of all the crap he's been through/is going through is great. He also seems to be by far most people's favorite character from Origins. If we're going with Bioware sidekicks, then there's definitely Vega from ME3. I personally dislike Alistair, but Corporal Beefcake was great.
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Dec 1, 2014 16:43
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Endorph posted:a 21-year-old dating an 18-year-old isnt really pedophilia I was agreeing with you.
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Dec 1, 2014 16:43
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morallyobjected posted:I was agreeing with you.
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Dec 1, 2014 16:45
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ImpAtom posted:
Adults don't want happy-go-lucky protagonists (unless they eventually break down) cause we are all bitter assholes. Can't stand looking at someone else be successful and happy... 
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Dec 1, 2014 17:08
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ImpAtom posted:Alistair is literally written as a Joss Whedon character. I don't mean "similar to', I mean the writers explicitly and literally tried to mimic Buffy and Firefly when writing him. I missed the Whedon part in the original post. Then again, I don't see why "happy go lucky" and "snarky Whedon character" have to be separate things. I mean, I watched Buffy, and Willow was pretty "cheerful girl" most of the time. (first few seasons anyway) But yes, I do get the point. Anime and JRPGs do seem to produce more of the happy go lucky heroes than Western series, especially video games. I want to see a Western Vash the Stampede. (even though the best thing about Vash was that his happy go lucky attitude was largely a mask/defense against the fact he lives on a lovely planet with people trying to kill him) NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Dec 1, 2014 |
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Dec 1, 2014 17:09
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From what I can tell, a lot of western nerds have this weird misconception that pessimism = maturity and optimism = immaturity.
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Dec 1, 2014 17:11
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Endorph posted:From what I can tell, a lot of western nerds have this weird misconception that pessimism = maturity and optimism = immaturity. if you are old and optimistic then youre an rear end in a top hat.
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Dec 1, 2014 17:29
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NikkolasKing posted:Then again, I don't see why "happy go lucky" and "snarky Whedon character" have to be separate things. I mean, I watched Buffy, and Willow was pretty "cheerful girl" most of the time. (first few seasons anyway) Whedon/Whedon-style writing enjoys breaking down happy-go-lucky characters. Not to spoil Dragon Age for you but Alistair's personality and what it means for him is a pretty central (and generally unhappy) part of the character.
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Dec 1, 2014 17:43
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TommyGun85 posted:if you are old and optimistic then youre an rear end in a top hat. Maybe you shouldn't be proving his point.
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Dec 1, 2014 17:48
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mycot posted:Maybe you shouldn't be proving his point. but, hes right
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Dec 1, 2014 17:52
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Mister Adequate posted:Aatrak new account detected. morallyobjected posted:And Snow is 21. Seriously this is like the dumbest thing to try and bring up. Endorph posted:a 21-year-old dating an 18-year-old isnt really pedophilia Endorph posted:From what I can tell, a lot of western nerds have this weird misconception that pessimism = maturity and optimism = immaturity. TommyGun85 posted:if you are old and optimistic then youre an rear end in a top hat. mycot posted:Maybe you shouldn't be proving his point. TommyGun85 posted:but, hes right 
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Dec 1, 2014 18:02
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I dont get it...
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Dec 1, 2014 19:20
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TommyGun85 posted:I dont get it... Widestancer is a shitposter. That's really all there is to get.
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Dec 1, 2014 19:35
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Greetings.
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Dec 1, 2014 19:37
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morallyobjected posted:Widestancer is a shitposter. That's really all there is to get. Yeah man totally not the people arguing over whether or not some character in a final fantasy game is dating whoever and the ages involved.
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Dec 1, 2014 19:39
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fronz posted:Greetings. Greetings friend!
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Dec 1, 2014 19:39
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gently caress these shitposters cant we get back to arguing about Cecils age and whether Kain is repressing the gay dude inside
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Dec 1, 2014 19:40
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Widestancer posted:gently caress these shitposters cant we get back to arguing about Cecils age and whether Kain is repressing the gay dude inside Cecil's transformation represents his coming to terms with his love for sex with men; that Kain remains a Baron dragoon shows that he is having difficulty coming to the same understanding. This is immediately made clear by a careful reading of the text.
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Dec 1, 2014 19:43
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Widestancer posted:gently caress these shitposters cant we get back to arguing about Cecils age and whether Kain is repressing the gay dude inside I know, why would people talk about characters in Final Fantasy in this, the Final Fantasy general discussion topic? good addition with the doge meme
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Dec 1, 2014 19:43
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Widestancer posted:gently caress these shitposters cant we get back to arguing about Cecils age and whether Kain is repressing the gay dude inside these things are very important to me, please understand
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Dec 1, 2014 19:45
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morallyobjected posted:I know, why would people talk about characters in Final Fantasy in this, the Final Fantasy general discussion topic? good addition with the doge meme The Doge is really good and if anyone can't see that I'm sorry that they're riddled with fail AIDS. fronz posted:Cecil's transformation represents his coming to terms with his love for sex with men; that Kain remains a Baron dragoon shows that he is having difficulty coming to the same understanding. This is immediately made clear by a careful reading of the text. Unlike this post which is really good. Kain's use of the phallic lance is also possibly a projection of traditional masculinity; this comes under threat through the developments you just described.
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Dec 1, 2014 19:46
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morallyobjected posted:I know, why would people talk about characters in Final Fantasy in this, the Final Fantasy general discussion topic? good addition with the doge meme Don't do this. Don't engage.
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Dec 1, 2014 19:46
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Dec 1, 2014 19:51
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at least this one is related.
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Dec 1, 2014 20:02
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Widestancer posted:Yeah man totally not the people arguing over whether or not some character in a final fantasy game is dating whoever and the ages involved. also the conversation was already over until you decided to empty quote the whole thing
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Dec 1, 2014 20:05
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Dec 1, 2014 20:07
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Endorph posted:we werent arguing over whether or not they were dating Whoah no way
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Dec 1, 2014 20:07
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Widestancer posted:Whoah no way
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Dec 1, 2014 20:09
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Ventana posted:Adults don't want happy-go-lucky protagonists (unless they eventually break down) cause we are all bitter assholes. Can't stand looking at someone else be successful and happy... The problem is that "constantly cheerful" is as one-dimensional as "constantly brooding" and most "constantly cheerful" anime heroes usually have some dark secret or, if done more properly, a character arc that balances them out to round out their character into something realistic. The same could be said for the "brooding" type from the west. As for why you don't see it as often in the west, it's because all the well-regarded western RPG companies like Obsidian/Black Isle and Bioware tended to go with avatar-style main characters where you could play them however you wanted. My Shepard from ME wasn't really the brooding sort, though you could certainly play him/her that way. Same with the Courier from New Vegas. As for playable side characters, if we want to throw up ME1/2 and New Vegas as top-tier-quality examples of western RPG's, they both have characters that are on the more cheerful side. From ME you had Liara, Tali, Miranda, and even Mordin though they all were more complicated and ended up fairly damaged by the end of the game(s). New Vegas notably had Veronica, though she also had her "dark secret" of course as well as some uncategorizable oddballs. I'll admit in New Vegas, the brooding companions like Boone and Arcade were generally more popular with fans but Raul, Veronica, and Cass got a lot of love from goons. The only constant that I see from fans of ME about the playable side characters were that they hated Ashley and Kaidan, the latter of which was the brooding type while pretty much every other character from the brooding types like Jack and Garrus to the more positive types like Liara and Tali had large fan followings.
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Dec 1, 2014 20:16
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Come to think of it, this might be part of the reason why Ezio from Assassin's Creed was so wildly popular. Compared to pretty much every other player character in the scene (including other AC games) he didn't get "THIS CHARACTER FEELS BAD AND DOES BAD THINGS" hammered as much.
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Dec 1, 2014 20:23
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The problem is largely that developers are so dead-set on making Serious Mature Games for Mature People that they end up making boring one-note overly-serious characters. This is also why 8 out of every 10 games now ends with your protagonist dying, usually in slow motion or some overly-symbolic way while sad music plays. Even the ones that don't end with you dying end with "but was it REALLY a victory?!" (often tied in with sequel baits.) It's so rare to have an ending which is just "You won! Isn't it awesome? Check it out" short of something like Mario. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Dec 1, 2014 |
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Dec 1, 2014 20:26
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A character is as one-dimensional as the writing wants it to be. Tidus is a good example of a pretty cheerful guy that tries to get through things in a positive light, but he's definitely got issues and thoughts on things that go beyond trying to befriend everyone.ImpAtom posted:The problem is largely that developers are so dead-set on making Serious Mature Games for Mature People that they end up making boring one-note overly-serious characters. This is also why 8 out of every 10 games now ends with your protagonist dying, usually in slow motion or some overly-symbolic way while sad music plays. I have not been playing enough games this year, apparently 
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Dec 1, 2014 20:27
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Tae posted:I have not been playing enough games this year, apparently It's been a little better this year but last year was extremely noticeable for it.
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Dec 1, 2014 20:35
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Hey now, Joel didn't die he just murdered someone and doomed the human race.
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Dec 1, 2014 20:37
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Oh poo poo I'm an idiot forget this
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Dec 1, 2014 20:43
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Metal Gear Solid is insanely Japanese.
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Dec 1, 2014 20:44
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NikkolasKing posted:Hey I got one for Western games with cheerful leads. How about MGS3 Naked Snake? I mean, he isn't super-cheerful in that he's constantly grinning, but he is beloved by people on here because of his dopey little boy mentality and all the funny, upbeat chats he has with his team. ... Well, uh, for one, MGS3 ends with Snake shooting his mentor in the face before finding out he was betrayed and lied to and then he goes on to be a Hitler-like madman. His wacky support crew all go on to be horrific monsters who are each murdered. Also Hideo Kojima is not Western.
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Dec 1, 2014 20:44
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ImpAtom posted:The problem is largely that developers are so dead-set on making Serious Mature Games for Mature People that they end up making boring one-note overly-serious characters. This is also why 8 out of every 10 games now ends with your protagonist dying, usually in slow motion or some overly-symbolic way while sad music plays. Even the ones that don't end with you dying end with "but was it REALLY a victory?!" (often tied in with sequel baits.) Yeah, a little bit of good, lighthearted dialogue goes a long way and I think some developers have forgotten this.
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Dec 1, 2014 20:45
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Yes I realized that right after I posted it. I are stupid. MGS just never feels like a Japanese game to me, especially in 3. I mean, there are Japanese elements of course but there's so much Western stuff in there too. Doesn't excuse my totally being an idiot though, sorry.
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Dec 1, 2014 20:45
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| # ? May 25, 2024 10:36 |
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ImpAtom posted:The problem is largely that developers are so dead-set on making Serious Mature Games for Mature People that they end up making boring one-note overly-serious characters. This is also why 8 out of every 10 games now ends with your protagonist dying, usually in slow motion or some overly-symbolic way while sad music plays. Even the ones that don't end with you dying end with "but was it REALLY a victory?!" (often tied in with sequel baits.) I just finished Sleeping Dogs for the first time and was surprised by just how 'oh yeah, everything's cool now, good job' the ending was given the tone of the rest of the game.
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Dec 1, 2014 20:48
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