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Dr. Fetus posted:Okay, so how are people getting through the game with The Lost? The farthest I've managed to get with him is the first floor of the Caves. It really doesn't help that there's just some rooms where it's near impossible to avoid taking damage. They cheat. If you crash the game when you get killed it will respawn you at the start of the floor. Doing this you can get infinite tries at beating a floor as the Lost so its not one hit and your done. Alternatively they reroll everything until they get an item combo that lets you cheese the game (gnawed leaf + any passive damage dealer). As for the people that beat the game with the Lost legitimately, I guess they're just insanely good. Still not sure how they deal with stuff like the burrowing enemies in womb. No matter how well I'm doing they basically always hit me because they pop up right below me.
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Dec 6, 2014 05:50
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Dr. Fetus posted:Okay, so how are people getting through the game with The Lost? The farthest I've managed to get with him is the first floor of the Caves. It really doesn't help that there's just some rooms where it's near impossible to avoid taking damage. One (or preferably more) of these items are nearly 100% necessary for runs as the Lost: Holy Mantle, 9 Lives, Stop Watch, or Gnawed Leaf. In addition you are hoping for a good set of items in your first Devil Room and ideally a Goat Head as soon as possible so you can take advantage of as many free deals as you can. The RNG can be a fickle bitch though so have fun resetting until you find a decent 1st Treasure room and then get lucky with the rest. 95% of the time you can probably dodge everything so long as you have enough speed, its a matter of actually dodging it that is the problem. The other 5% are what the necessary items are for.
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Dec 6, 2014 05:57
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Logan 5 posted:Finding Epic Fetus is usually a game winner I've found. Unless you have high luck and Loki's Horns/Mom's Eye, then its very easy to kill yourself without Pyromaniac. Playing the Lost when you start with an Epic Fetus was some of the most frustrated I've been at the game, just because you can clear out so much poo poo but you have to be super careful with positioning. I never made it past It Lives with that as a start in a decent number of tries. Re: Mega Satan and Azazel: IMJack posted:You get yourself a full set of orbitals and you park under his jaw. Most of his bullets move pretty slow and can be intercepted by orbitals before they hit you. Even more so if you have stuff like BFF or Guardian Angel. Davincie posted:i stood right next to his arms and he had trouble hitting me  The first few phases were fairly easy, I could dodge everything but the big central Brimstone blast that he only did twice. I had enough health that I wanted to see what skull phase was like as Azazel so I used Chaos Card to skip the phase after the Dark Angels and the bullet hell parts were just my Tech baby + Mongo Baby plinking at him while I failed at dodging stuff. Eventually I just charged up and tried damage racing him, and won with like three hearts left. I used a 6 reroll room in that run, originally I had a cool BFFs + Bob's Brain/Little Steven/Rainbow Baby/???'s Only Friend/Daddy's Love thing going that was absolute chaos in rooms, I kinda wish I stuck with that but beefed up ???'s Only Friend moving around the room while I charged my Azazel shots was way more distracting than it should have been. Also rerolling a Krampus' Head away in the Womb was why I rolled into Mega Satan with Crack the Sky as my spacebar item 
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Dec 6, 2014 05:58
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Dr. Fetus posted:Okay, so how are people getting through the game with The Lost? The farthest I've managed to get with him is the first floor of the Caves. It really doesn't help that there's just some rooms where it's near impossible to avoid taking damage. I tried for a bit before deciding it wasn't fun. I've made it to Mom before, though I usually died in the Depths/Necropolis. Other than resetting until you get the items you need, it's really just a matter of doing it over and over until you get better. There are some rooms where you're destined to fail though. For example, mullibooms are faster than the Lost starts off so if you get them early on it's almost guaranteed to be a game over. I really don't think they designed any of the rooms with the Lost in mind, especially the ones with red poop.
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Dec 6, 2014 06:01
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I just got my first successful run with The Lost tonight and it was solely because of Alt+F4. The idea of the challenge is interesting at first blush until you realize just how many rooms are like THINK FAST TOO SLOW YOU JUST TOOK DAMAGE. Also, if you think you hate spiders, jumping enemies, or especially those jumping head spiders now, you do not truly understand pain until you have to deal with them as The Lost. They leap across a screen and a half in 2x2 rooms like heat-seeking missiles and they want you. Once you reach critical mass of required items you can either lame out most fights or obliterate them before they can do anything, but you still have "one mistake = you're done" hanging over your head. I started Alt+F4ing because I lost a run with Holy Mantle to those loving burrower assholes in the Womb.
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Dec 6, 2014 06:13
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Daeren posted:I started Alt+F4ing because I lost a run with Holy Mantle to those loving burrower assholes in the Womb. Was it just an empty room? You could have sat on a rock and been untouchable. Or over a chasm.
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Dec 6, 2014 06:16
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Logan 5 posted:One (or preferably more) of these items are nearly 100% necessary for runs as the Lost: Holy Mantle, 9 Lives, Stop Watch, or Gnawed Leaf. In addition you are hoping for a good set of items in your first Devil Room and ideally a Goat Head as soon as possible so you can take advantage of as many free deals as you can. Reset until you get a starting item good enough to carry you through the second floor. You're going to live and die on your first two devil deal rooms unless you get really lucky, but if you can get one of the defensive items + Brimstone or Mom's Knife it's much more manageable. I'd at least try a decent amount of runs with mediocre starting items (Cricket's Body and Taurus were some starting items on my successful Lost runs) because - There are rooms that you kinda need to trial and error with the Lost, like the ones with like four wall spiders with the triple shot. Don't lose a run that starts with like Epic Fetus down the line because you didn't know how to react to that. - If you're going for Godhead, your starting item's going to be Dead Cat way more than anything else because starting curse rooms are more common than treasure rooms on hard. This becomes immediately obvious when you start resetting, and preserving those lives until you've got some damage or something is vital. Logan 5 posted:The RNG can be a fickle bitch though so have fun resetting until you find a decent 1st Treasure room and then get lucky with the rest. 95% of the time you can probably dodge everything so long as you have enough speed, its a matter of actually dodging it that is the problem. The other 5% are what the necessary items are for. "The other 5%" makes me think of my most humiliating Lost run ending, where I had Mom's Knife + Gnawed Leaf and was full clearing floors like a jackass. I go into a challenge room for the shot at a guppy piece, hit the chest, freeze, and two of the bone-throwing skeletons spawn on either side of me and rapid-fire bones, not stopping or moving close enough to get knifed whatsoever. I stood there like an idiot and eventually .05 seconds after I press a directional key I'm dead.
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Dec 6, 2014 06:20
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Internet Kraken posted:As for the people that beat the game with the Lost legitimately, I guess they're just insanely good. One of my successes was starting with Epic Fetus, getting plenty of extra damage and then finding Holy Mantle in depths 1 at which point every non-boss room I would just bomb the door and run out because I couldn't get hit twice in the time it would take to do that, and then the rest was just not choking in the endgame or boss fights.
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Dec 6, 2014 06:23
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Y'know what would be nice for the Lost to start with? Spectral tears. Why the gently caress does it not have those to begin with? It's a loving ghost! Being able to shoot through rocks and the like from the get-go would be so incredibly useful.
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Dec 6, 2014 06:44
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Manatee Cannon posted:Y'know what would be nice for the Lost to start with? Spectral tears. Why the gently caress does it not have those to begin with? It's a loving ghost! Being able to shoot through rocks and the like from the get-go would be so incredibly useful. I started an Eden run with spirit of the night and thought "oh this must be what its like to play the lost". I mean it even changes your model to look like the lost. He doesn't get the spectral tears though even though they are really good with flight. I get that he's supposed to be hard but at least with spec tears you would have more options. Of course even with that I'd probably still do awful. I'm sure if I ever did get a good lost run going I would touch red poop and die because I run into those rooms on a regular basis and forget about them a second later.
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Dec 6, 2014 06:52
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Fun fact: If you have a run where you use the D4 or D100 a bunch to reroll your poo poo and then you quit out and resume the game, some of the poo poo you had previously will return. How I found this out: I got to the chest with Eve on Hard and one of the items in the first room was the ankh. I quit out real quick to see if I still needed the Hard kill on ??? with ???. When I left I had (among other poo poo) Fly mode with 20/20 and Ipecac. When I came back in I had regained Isaac's Heart and Soy Milk. Which would have been fine if I had Pyromaniac but I didn't and lost to ??? with both lives. I've lost two potential Hard Mega Satan attempts today. I also discovered that Angels don't drop anything after you've already built the key.
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Dec 6, 2014 06:55
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Huh, here's a head-scratcher for you all. I ran into a bug of some kind, but I have no idea what caused it. I think it might have been some item interaction I had, then again who knows. Playing as Lazarus on Hard, I found a Joker card 1st floor and picked up Spirit of the Night and the Satanic Bible (no more red hearts after this). I later picked up the Whip (range+dmg), Fire Mind, use two tears up pills, the Lucky Scab, Chocolate Milk, the Pact, and then Technology 1. Somewhere before the Pact maybe and after Technology my tears were suddenly slow and my damage was poo poo. I was baffled because it should have been an ok setup so far, and looked at the pause page and sure enough my tears stat was back at 1, and my damage was back at 2. This is in Depths 1 now where starting stats aint doing poo poo, specially with tech 1. I found a Suicide King for the first time ever and out of frustration I took it and... my stats all went back to how they should be and my fire laser was shooting fast and with the damage it should have? I died shortly after this because I only had one heart and didnt care about the run. Any idea what could have caused this?
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Dec 6, 2014 07:16
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What happens if you use We Need to Go Deeper on mom's level when you are playing a challenge that only requires you to beat her?
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Dec 6, 2014 07:19
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Manatee Cannon posted:Y'know what would be nice for the Lost to start with? Spectral tears. Why the gently caress does it not have those to begin with? It's a loving ghost! Being able to shoot through rocks and the like from the get-go would be so incredibly useful. Because he still wouldn't be any fun to play whatsoever.
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Dec 6, 2014 07:20
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goodness posted:What happens if you use We Need to Go Deeper on mom's level when you are playing a challenge that only requires you to beat her? I'm pretty sure you can't complete the challenge then.
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Dec 6, 2014 07:27
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Didn't get a key for the first 4 floors on a HM Eden run. Cleared and bombed everything I possibly could. gently caress you, game.
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Dec 6, 2014 07:35
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I started rerolling an angel room by going in and out with Scapular+Sharp Plug+Goat's Head and now I'm getting regular pool items. What's up with that? I haven't gone through it all since I 1) haven't seen Godhead, dammit and 2) also didn't see two out of Body/Soul/Mind  e: the next one was like that from the start, too! 
DACK FAYDEN fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Dec 6, 2014 |
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Dec 6, 2014 09:04
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I think the running theory is that Angel/Devil rooms will pull items (and thus remove) from the pool even if you don't actually get to see the room and possibly that this persists through restarts. That or it generates a smaller pool that it actually pulls from for each run.
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Dec 6, 2014 09:35
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Jibo posted:I'm pretty sure you can't complete the challenge then. the trophy spawns on the next floor down. there's no way to actually gently caress yourself out of a challenge because no matter what the trophy is going to spawn at some point or another until you reach a point where you can't even go any deeper
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Dec 6, 2014 09:36
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Jibo posted:I think the running theory is that Angel/Devil rooms will pull items (and thus remove) from the pool even if you don't actually get to see the room and possibly that this persists through restarts. That or it generates a smaller pool that it actually pulls from for each run. e: one wiki has probabilities, and I definitely have d6/pyromaniac/stopwatch, but I don't know what a 1/8 chance to appear MEANS, given that I've rerolled two Breakfast at least twenty times. DACK FAYDEN fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Dec 6, 2014 |
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Dec 6, 2014 09:39
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:the trophy spawns on the next floor down. there's no way to actually gently caress yourself out of a challenge because no matter what the trophy is going to spawn at some point or another until you reach a point where you can't even go any deeper Awesome, this is good to know. So basically I can skip the last boss needed for a Challenge and the trophy will show up in the first room after spawning on the next floor?
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Dec 6, 2014 09:49
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no, i'm pretty sure it only spawns after the boss of the next floor. what i meant is that there's no way to prevent yourself from eventually getting the reward, even if you somehow skip the intended boss for said challenge
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Dec 6, 2014 09:50
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:no, i'm pretty sure it only spawns after the boss of the next floor. what i meant is that there's no way to prevent yourself from eventually getting the reward, even if you somehow skip the intended boss for said challenge Ah alright. Well I finished my 2nd challenge today (2 in a row woo). Was doing Solar System and luckily picked up Krampus' Head. Allowed me to 1-shot all the bosses which was nice.
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Dec 6, 2014 10:03
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Eighteen rerolls after complaining here, so probably about 50 total... Godhead did show up. I am apparently a real true platinum god fellow or something. Time to never play this game again... ...for like three day until I start a second save file 
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Dec 6, 2014 10:15
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:no, i'm pretty sure it only spawns after the boss of the next floor. what i meant is that there's no way to prevent yourself from eventually getting the reward, even if you somehow skip the intended boss for said challenge Yeah once you kill the next boss you'll get the trophy to pop up on the ground. I don't know why you would do this when the Womb is arguably more dangerous than the Mom fight itself, though.
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Dec 6, 2014 10:30
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Manatee Cannon posted:Yeah once you kill the next boss you'll get the trophy to pop up on the ground. I don't know why you would do this when the Womb is arguably more dangerous than the Mom fight itself, though. I like to do this whenever I can, just for the extra challenge (and to get more items because let's face it, getting items is why we all play this), even if I risk losing my trophy. This has happened before. It will happen again. I can't stop myself 
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Dec 6, 2014 15:03
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My modus operandi for the lost was pretty much just to scum for the dead cat, usually from the first curse room, but if I got something good in the item room/boss room I'd just keep going usually, my only successes had the dead cat (also full guppy transformation and brimstone in two out of three). My first dark room win (I took my boss rush win there later as well). I picked up a chaos card in the room before the lamb. And just to be clear it took me in the realm of 900-1000 restarts to finish it. If I had to do it again I would probably use the script that was posted a ways back to just make the lost start with dead cat. e: just to be clear this was after the bug was fixed and I was only using it for the extra lives, the extra lives are still a huge boon.
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Dec 6, 2014 15:57
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Right, finally stopped being lazy and killed the angels and got Dad's Key/curbstomped Mega Satan (Yes, please send more healing shockwaves. Pyromania makes those hurt so good), time to do Family Man. It wasn't bad, Satan really wanted me to become Guppy and kept giving me red chests with Guppy parts in them. With some damage ups to up my fly damage, I was rocking the challenge...only to enjoy the worst loving holy beam RNG in the Isaac fight's mid stage. I've never seen the random beams hit me more than once or twice in a fight before at the worst. I suddenly had them home in on me and hit me like 5 times. There went the easiest Family Man run ever.
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Dec 6, 2014 16:19
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What, I don't... oh  stop  game pls  no game  why  other people need drops too
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Dec 6, 2014 17:21
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Power of Pecota posted:- There are rooms that you kinda need to trial and error with the Lost, like the ones with like four wall spiders with the triple shot. Don't lose a run that starts with like Epic Fetus down the line because you didn't know how to react to that. How do you react to that?
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Dec 6, 2014 17:40
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I just had a ridiculous Suicide King run. First level: two luck up pills, stumble on the trapdoor treasure room and it has Mom's Knife. Other highlights include Broken Watch, buying Tarot Deck and Starter Deck from the same shop, and top it off with Blank Card before hitting up Utero with the Joker and Emperor cards in hand. PNTF 8QBN
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Dec 6, 2014 18:11
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How are you supposed to do the Demo Man challenge? Dr. Fetus is such a bad item now.  It takes ages to kill anything.
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Dec 6, 2014 18:14
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Dr. Fetus posted:How are you supposed to do the Demo Man challenge? Dr. Fetus is such a bad item now. Get a thousand damage ups. Or get something that overrides Dr. Fetus. But yeah. Dr. Fetus is only really good with sufficient damage ups.
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Dec 6, 2014 18:16
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IGgy IGsen posted:Get a thousand damage ups. Or a bomb booster, because it changes the Dr. Fetus bombs damage to match your dropped bombs.
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Dec 6, 2014 18:32
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Dr. Fetus posted:How are you supposed to do the Demo Man challenge? Dr. Fetus is such a bad item now. Get Spoon Bender, Sacred Heart or Bobby Bomb for homing bomb. Now bombs home to/stick to enemies and poo poo is 10x easier. Also damage ups. In other news, WOOO! I have every challenge but beans and lemons done!
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Dec 6, 2014 18:40
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I'm trying to fill out the final marking (the lamb) on blue baby's sheet and given how annoying this character is to use, I'm struggling to come up with a good reason to even attempt any of the lost's bullshit. It's not necessarily the lack of HP that's putting me off, it's the fact that what I like about this game, the synergies between items, just doesn't seem to apply to the lost. Some 1/3 of the items just do nothing for him which makes all of his runs lame and not interesting whatsoever. Does anyone out there have anything to say about this character that makes it sound fun at all and not a complete chore? If not, I'm pretty much just going to download a save file when all I have left are the losts achievements and the meat boy/bandage girl.
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Dec 6, 2014 18:57
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omeg posted:How do you react to that? I immediately charge to the left side halfway between the spiders, then shoot at the top left spider ideally killing it before the shots from the left spiders reach you so you can move up into the upper left quadrant and not have to dodge any overlap from the right wall spiders. Take out the bottom left spider, then get the other two to move together, swipe over above or below them, and clear them out. That room ended more Lost runs than any other one for me, if you don't have orbitals you can be straight up hosed if you stay toward the middle.
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Dec 6, 2014 19:53
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Ghost Head posted:I'm trying to fill out the final marking (the lamb) on blue baby's sheet and given how annoying this character is to use, I'm struggling to come up with a good reason to even attempt any of the lost's bullshit. It's not necessarily the lack of HP that's putting me off, it's the fact that what I like about this game, the synergies between items, just doesn't seem to apply to the lost. Some 1/3 of the items just do nothing for him which makes all of his runs lame and not interesting whatsoever. Does anyone out there have anything to say about this character that makes it sound fun at all and not a complete chore? If not, I'm pretty much just going to download a save file when all I have left are the losts achievements and the meat boy/bandage girl. It is a complete chore, if you don't feel like a cheater downloading a 100% save file go for it. Personally I knew going in that I'm going to pump a shitton of hours into this game and believed that I could do it, so why not earn it and get to be a smug fucker legitimately?
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Dec 6, 2014 19:58
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IMJack posted:Or a bomb booster, because it changes the Dr. Fetus bombs damage to match your dropped bombs. Not all of them, and can't you hurt yourself on the fire left behind by fire bombs? That would be actively detrimental to you. Mister Mega and Butt Bombs would be perfect though. You can also get out of the challenge with the dice rooms or things like Missing No.
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Dec 6, 2014 22:09
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I would suggest using the starting items script to give The Lost dead cat or holy mantle (or both) to start with if you're having a lot of trouble, I would have done this if I learned about it before I smashed my head against the game till I found dead cat enough to win normally. I mean, you'll still die a lot, but it gives you a stepping stone so that when you do get a good run going a single mistake doesn't throw it down the drain.
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Dec 6, 2014 22:14
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