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hepatizon posted:Here's your reference -- all 101 occurrences of "gaggle of gooks" on the public internet, and they all look pretty racist. Feel free to provide a reference of your own, but right now you sound like my racist-rear end grandmother saying that it wasn't at all a problem to call brazil nuts "friend of the family toes". So it was a regionally tone deaf idiom which is seen nationally as racist? Fair enough, I won't say it in the future.
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Dec 8, 2014 20:32
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Space Whale posted:If every little slight wasn't a trumpet call for the piranhas to come take a bite out of someone, and the person making the slight didn't have to always and forever be "that *-ist person" I'd be more inclined to play ball. Instead I've seen that when someone is apologetic it's like blood in the water, and that's stupid. That's just fanning the flames of "let's derail into beating someone up for a while" and then there's a long term, if not indefinite, period where the person who made the slight is just a whipping-person, unless they wise up and leave for greener pastures. Yes, and how has your tactic of wailing and gnashing of teeth gone so far? Not very well I'd say. All you're doing is cementing your reputation as "the guy who really wants to say 'gooks', which seems pretty drat counterintuitive to the goal of not being seen as a racist. Space Whale posted:Unless I'm mistaken, it's just an alliteration for "collection of things" like "mob of mooks" as a nonsense word. Then there was a Korean war and Gook became an insult, and to say "gook" in isolation is to be clearly racist. Space Whale posted:It sure was growing up in my experience. I didn't learn "gook" was a mutation of a Korean term which was a racist slur against southeast Asians until I was in my teens, and only then, it was a term used in isolation or a specific context. No, every time you heard "gook" that person was using it as a slur. It doesn't exist in a non-racist context. Just like there's not a context that makes where calling someone a "friend of the family" isn't racist. E: Space Whale posted:So it was a regionally tone deaf idiom which is seen nationally as racist? Fair enough, I won't say it in the future. No, it's still racist in your region too. Double E: it's good you'll stop saying it, regardless. Who What Now fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 20:33
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Space Whale posted:So it was a regionally tone deaf idiom which is seen nationally as racist? Fair enough, I won't say it in the future. I thought you said you learned it was racist years ago: Space Whale posted:It sure was growing up in my experience. I didn't learn "gook" was a mutation of a Korean term which was a racist slur against southeast Asians until I was in my teens, and only then, it was a term used in isolation or a specific context. Unless you're still a teenager, which I'm prepared to believe. You haven't apologized.
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Dec 8, 2014 20:37
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Who What Now posted:Yes, and how has your tactic of wailing and gnashing of teeth gone so far? Not very well I'd say. All you're doing is cementing your reputation as "the guy who really wants to say 'gooks', which seems pretty drat counterintuitive to the goal of not being seen as a racist. I don't want to offend people. OTOH I don't want to have someone say "you said the g-word" every time they want to argue against me, or every time something offending someone is said everything be dropped for an interrogation and chewing with permanent sanctioning against the person who said the word. If I had kowtowed, would that have been the end of it this time? I've seen tons of poo poo on twitter and elsewhere where there's always a fight, but it only lingers if the person was apologetic and put up with random busybodies circling and taking potshots. Who What Now posted:No, every time you heard "gook" that person was using it as a slur. It doesn't exist in a non-racist context. Just like there's not a context that makes where calling someone a "friend of the family" isn't racist. Slope has a non racist context. Who What Now posted:No, it's still racist in your region too. I certainly didn't know it was.
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Dec 8, 2014 20:38
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SedanChair posted:I thought you said you learned it was racist years ago: I literally said gook in isolation was racist but the phrase wasn't. Please work on your reading comprehension. I realize you get a thrill out of chewing out people for ism slights so you can call them ists, but slow down, man. SedanChair posted:You haven't apologized. I thought you pretended to be black, not Korean.
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Dec 8, 2014 20:40
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Space Whale posted:I don't want to offend people. OTOH I don't want to have someone say "you said the g-word" every time they want to argue against me, or every time something offending someone is said everything be dropped for an interrogation and chewing with permanent sanctioning against the person who said the word. New people you meet IRL won't know you were spouting off racial slurs. Go forth and say loving racial slurs no more you dummy.
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Dec 8, 2014 20:40
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Space Whale posted:South Park did a brilliant take on this. South Park has never done a brilliant take on anything except maybe fart jokes. It's occasionally funny but the creators' politics are pretty poo poo, which wouldn't be a problem but the show is essentially their soapbox so it's valid to criticize them on it.
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Dec 8, 2014 20:41
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Xibanya posted:New people you meet IRL won't know you were spouting off racial slurs. Go forth and say loving racial slurs no more you dummy. So my point if "you poison the well indefinitely if you make an unintentional slight." Is this a problem to you or no?
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Dec 8, 2014 20:41
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Zeitgueist posted:South Park has never done a brilliant take on anything except maybe fart jokes. I dunno they mock "The truth is in the middle" like pros.
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Dec 8, 2014 20:42
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Space Whale posted:I certainly didn't know it was. Before you posted it? Now you're telling lies, as is common for your kind. Space Whale posted:I thought you pretended to be black, not Korean. Nice pivot! We probably would have kept savaging you if you hadn't deftly pivoted to being racist towards light skinned African Americans.
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Dec 8, 2014 20:44
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SedanChair posted:Before you posted it? Now you're telling lies, as is common for your kind. If I had apologized and been contrite to the point of tears it would be seen as weakness and gotten just as many new claws out, though. Also lol, a fuss-out over racism and here we got someone going "your kind." The hits just keep coming.
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Dec 8, 2014 20:45
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Space Whale posted:If I had apologized and been contrite to the point of tears it would be seen as weakness and gotten just as many new claws out, though. Look, take a second and think about how this comes across. You're unwilling to admit you're wrong just because somebody might be a dick to you. If somebody is a dick to you, that's on them. But admitting you're wrong -- that's on you. If you want to have a useful conversation, that is the price of admission.
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Dec 8, 2014 20:58
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Space Whale posted:Also lol, a fuss-out over racism and here we got someone going "your kind." Your "kind" is racists. People who realize they said something racist and refuse to apologize are called "racists."
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Dec 8, 2014 21:00
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hepatizon posted:Look, take a second and think about how this comes across. You're unwilling to admit you're wrong just because somebody might be a dick to you. If somebody is a dick to you, that's on them. But admitting you're wrong -- that's on you. If you want to have a useful conversation, that is the price of admission. Because in the end it's better for me if I don't show weakness, unless this is materially different from twitter/most other forums, that is. It might be! If that's the case I'll have two things to apologize for  There is no "might" involved. If it would be better in the end to apologize, that's would be great! Except in this context, it isn't. Nevertheless, I don't owe a bunch of busybodies apologies like I hurt them. I don't even know their races, there was no mens rea, nothing. This is just "circle the wagons!"
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Dec 8, 2014 21:01
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SedanChair posted:Your "kind" is racists. People who realize they said something racist and refuse to apologize are called "racists." So I'm essentially unchangeably racist and should be shot since it's hopeless?
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Dec 8, 2014 21:02
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You don't seem willing to change. I'll leave the shooting part up to you.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:02
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SedanChair posted:You don't seem willing to change. I'll leave the shooting part up to you. Oh, I'm willing to continue to not hurt people. I'm not willing to engage with a group where people scan for poo poo to get offended over, and then demand personal apologies, like it's their job to go sin eating through privilege checking.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:04
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Space Whale posted:If I had kowtowed, would that have been the end of it this time? Yes Space Whale posted:Slope has a non racist context. Slope isn't gook. Space Whale posted:I certainly didn't know it was. What, did you think there was a Something Awful conspiracy to convince forums user Space Whale that the word "gook" is actually super racist when half a dozen posters pointed this out to you? I'll ask you again, you keep saying that had you apologized you'd have been ripped to shreds but how has refusing to do so gone for you so far? Do you feel you were successful in whatever point you were trying to make? Space Whale posted:I dunno they mock "The truth is in the middle" like pros. They aren't mocking, bro. 
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Dec 8, 2014 21:04
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Ormi posted:Expecting people to "give up" their privileges at all when confronted with them is exactly the opposite of what privilege theory prescribes, actually. Anyway, this seems to run counter to the ideas espoused by I think at least a few people in this thread. SedanChair in particular seems to be a big fan of awareness. Apparently it's more interesting to discuss the precise nature of Space Whale's racist tendencies though. I do find it interesting that privilege theory seems to be essentially amoral. Like, what's stopping "John" from recognizing the advantages he has been granted by being born a white man, and embracing them? Privilege theory in the minds of the wrong people seems to be a recipe for "race consciousness" or whatever. Space Whale posted:Because in the end it's better for me if I don't show weakness, unless this is materially different from twitter/most other forums, that is. It might be! If that's the case I'll have two things to apologize for
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Dec 8, 2014 21:05
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Who What Now posted:They aren't mocking, bro. Just because you don't see it as parody doesn't mean it isn't parody ok.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:05
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Who What Now posted:They aren't mocking, bro. "haha both sides are stupid, everyone is stupid" is such a relaxing cop-out for bro idiots. They Want to Believe.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:06
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A Buttery Pastry posted:"Then John checked all his privilege, and he saw that it was good." I like how I owe a random goon a personal apology to him for uttering something offensive which isn't even directed at him in his presence. 
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Dec 8, 2014 21:06
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someone on the internet told me to check my privilege and now i hate niggers! thanks leftists!
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Dec 8, 2014 21:08
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SedanChair posted:"haha both sides are stupid, everyone is stupid" is such a relaxing cop-out for bro idiots. They Want to Believe. No, it's a pretty astute observation. I'm basically just as dumb as you right now. We're both doing this to get a laugh. This is masturbation at best. This isn't fixing a god damned thing and never will. You want to argue. I want to demonstrate how much people want to argue but feel like it's really doing things. I'm not pretending to be better than you, though. Maybe a little more honest?
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Dec 8, 2014 21:08
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Flectarn posted:someone on the internet told me to check my privilege and now i hate niggers! thanks leftists! 9/10, excellent form.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:09
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Space Whale posted:No, it's a pretty astute observation. I'm basically just as dumb as you right now. We're both doing this to get a laugh. This is masturbation at best. This isn't fixing a god damned thing and never will. You want to argue. I want to demonstrate how much people want to argue but feel like it's really doing things. I'm not pretending to be better than you, though. Maybe a little more honest? The more I force you to talk, the more I heal reluctant, horrified white people who realize they never want to be in your embarrassing position. You're doing this to get a laugh. I'm busy doing the Lord's work.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:11
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SedanChair posted:The more I force you to talk, the more I heal reluctant, horrified white people who realize they never want to be in your embarrassing position.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:13
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Space Whale posted:I like how I owe a random goon a personal apology to him for uttering something offensive which isn't even directed at him in his presence.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:13
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Space Whale posted:Just because you don't see it as parody doesn't mean it isn't parody ok. No, seriously, they aren't mocking it and in fact there's a whole ideology about it. quote:South Park co-creator Trey Parker is actually a registered member of the Libertarian Party.[2] Fellow co-creator Matt Stone sums up their views with the comment, "I hate conservatives, but I really loving hate liberals."[3] Space Whale posted:Because in the end it's better for me if I don't show weakness, unless this is materially different from twitter/most other forums, that is. It might be! If that's the case I'll have two things to apologize for You are showing weakness though. Being overly stubborn in the face of good sense and the inability to man up and admit you're wrong show weakness of character. Space Whale posted:There is no "might" involved. If it would be better in the end to apologize, that's would be great! Except in this context, it isn't. Nevertheless, I don't owe a bunch of busybodies apologies like I hurt them. I don't even know their races, there was no mens rea, nothing. This is just "circle the wagons!" This all started because someone said "Dude, don't say gooks because that's a racist thing to say" and then you went goddamn apeshit trying to defend it. I guarantee that had you simply said "I never knew it was racist and I didn't mean it that way, but I won't use that word anymore" it would have been done and over with. It was your braying that it was totally not racist that summoned the wolves. And no, you don't need to personally apologize to anyone but you do need to admit you were wrong and shouldn't have said it. Who What Now fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 21:15
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twodot posted:The problem isn't actually saying something offensive, people say offensive poo poo all the time, sometimes on purpose, sometimes not (the first time you wrote "gaggle of gooks" I assumed it was a typo for "gaggle of goons"), it's just not efficient to spin up the outrage machine every time it happens. The problem is that in addition to doubling down on "gaggle of gooks" being a phrase, which it isn't, you're also actively claiming that apologizing would somehow create an even more hostile environment than what you have now (which is pretty loving hostile). The second claim is essentially arguing that we are arguing in bad faith, except you haven't bothered to collect the evidence of that, you're just claiming that we're guilty of pre-crime. That is directed at everyone reading the thread. Do you READ twitter?
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Dec 8, 2014 21:16
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Gantolandon posted:OK, to sum the last page up: OK so the last page or so is a dude melting down over his right to use anachronistic slurs, and that sure is something, but was this an accurate summary?
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Dec 8, 2014 21:17
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Space Whale posted:Do you READ twitter? This isn't Twitter.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:18
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Who What Now posted:And no, you don't need to personally apologize to anyone but you do need to admit you were wrong and shouldn't have said it. As I said to twodot, do you read twitter? I've seen people apologize and get it far worse. On principle reconciliation is something I'd prefer, but if it comes down to "a little more poo poo now and less later, or more over time," I'd rather get it over with.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:19
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If it's worth anything I don't think Space Whale is a moron or a racist, just really stubborn. I thought his mini-autobiography was pretty illuminating so, thanks for sharing I guess. I've never heard the word 'gook' in a non-racist context in my whole life. Then again I watched a lot of vietnam movies growing up v vMaybe people can let bygones be bygones since the guy says he won't say 'gook' any more, which was the object of the whole shaming exercise to begin with.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:20
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Zeitgueist posted:OK so the last page or so is a dude melting down over his right to use anachronistic slurs, and that sure is something, but was this an accurate summary? You realize I was making a point that a lot of people are just over-eager to drop EVERYTHING and go on a witch hunt and tear people to pieces, right? Or self rightous to the point they say it's the Lord's Work to argue on the internet to save White People™ or something?
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Dec 8, 2014 21:21
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murphyslaw posted:If it's worth anything I don't think Space Whale is a moron or a racist, just really stubborn. I thought his mini-autobiography was pretty illuminating so, thanks for sharing I guess. I'm sorry to any Koreans who are offended. If you're hunting for poo poo to tell people to apologize to you over for the sake of hunting for poo poo to get self righteous over, you can go gently caress yourself.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:22
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Zeitgueist posted:but was this an accurate summary? Exaggerated but people really haven't raised any convincing defense of privilege theory so far itt.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:22
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Zeitgueist posted:OK so the last page or so is a dude melting down over his right to use anachronistic slurs, and that sure is something, but was this an accurate summary? It is in that it is largely the same strawmanning of leftist positions that has been going on for most of the thread.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:23
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Space Whale posted:As I said to twodot, do you read twitter? I've seen people apologize and get it far worse. On principle reconciliation is something I'd prefer, but if it comes down to "a little more poo poo now and less later, or more over time," I'd rather get it over with. Who What Now posted:This isn't Twitter.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:24
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Nevvy Z posted:It is in that it is largely the same strawmanning of leftist positions that has been going on for most of the thread. No True ScotsCriticism.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:24
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