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Volkerball posted:He wasn't just the leader of Labor. He was the leader of the coalition with the Muslim Brotherhood and several other parties.  I... what?
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Dec 7, 2014 00:15
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Absurd Alhazred posted:
HaAvoda in hebrew? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Labor_Party quote:Asked by a reporter whether he’s surprised by the “North Korea-like level of public support for the war” — according to polls, an overwhelming majority of Jewish Israelis believe the military campaign is just — and whether this might endanger Israeli democracy, he laughed. “I really don’t think we’re North Korea in any possible sense,” said Herzog, who heads the center-left Labor party. http://www.timesofisrael.com/opposition-head-everyone-understands-its-a-battle-for-our-home/#ixzz3LA9YSMNn
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Dec 7, 2014 00:21
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Him being the head of the opposition doesn't mean he actually represented all the parties that weren't in the coalition, being the head of the opposition simply means he's the head of the largest party that is not in the coalition.
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Dec 7, 2014 00:23
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Him being the leader of the opposition doesn't mean he actually represented all the parties that weren't in the coalition, being the leader of the opposition simply means he's the head of the largest party that is not in the coalition. He definitely talked about having to address the needs of all those different parties. I don't know how it actually works, but he certainly implied that as the opposition leader, he had a responsibility to do that.
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Dec 7, 2014 00:25
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He's trying to consolidate the support of smaller parties, I doubt he actually has any intentions of working with any of the Arab parties he's probably just courting Arab voters with those kind of statements. It's already strongly suggested that he's going to ally with Livni these elections cause the polls suggest it will help both parties to gain more voters. Which is of course a huge farce cause Livni is a blood thirsty ghoul but whatever.
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Dec 7, 2014 00:27
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Last elections I voted for Meretz but I think I might go for Ha'avoda this go around. They have a better shot of taking down Bibi than anyone else and really that's my only objective.
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Dec 7, 2014 00:32
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Doflamingo posted:Last elections I voted for Meretz but I think I might go for Ha'avoda this go around. They have a better shot of taking down Bibi than anyone else and really that's my only objective. Yeah but it's the same as it always is, they'll always seat in an Avoda coalition if such a coalition has a chance to depose Bibi, similarly they'd never seat in a rightwing led coalition and they're also not as disgusting as Avoda on most issues so, why not vote for them again?
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Dec 7, 2014 00:39
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Future Prime Minister Naftali Bennett's speech starts in 10 minutes.  http://www.brookings.edu/events/2014/12/05-saban-forum-2014-united-states-israel-middle-east kill em before they grow up to be terrorists imo
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Dec 7, 2014 00:51
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Volkerball posted:He definitely talked about having to address the needs of all those different parties. I don't know how it actually works, but he certainly implied that as the opposition leader, he had a responsibility to do that. No, like emanresu said, you automatically become "chairperson of the opposition" if you head the largest party, it's not an elected position, and does not mean you represent the interests of the entirety of the opposition. Like, for example, in that very interview, he is supporting a war that the United Arab List (which has representatives from the Southern (more moderate) Chapter of the Israeli Islamic Movement, which is I guess a part of the wider Muslim Brotherhood movement in the region historically, and therefore Times of Israel felt it necessary to refer to them in this manner, oh I do wonder why) obviously opposed. The closest Labor has come to actually having the mainly Arab parties in the coalition is when those supported the Rabin minority government (that is, they did not join the coalition, but opposed attempts to remove it and call for an early election).
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Dec 7, 2014 00:53
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Absurd Alhazred posted:No, like emanresu said, you automatically become "chairperson of the opposition" if you head the largest party, it's not an elected position, and does not mean you represent the interests of the entirety of the opposition. I get your point, but it's a direct quote from Herzog, not the Times inner "When genocide is permissible" showing through. In fact, they even disclaimered it. quote:Herzog was likely referring to Ra’am-Ta’al, an Arab-Israeli faction in the Knesset, although it has no formal affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood. Journalistic integrity! 
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Dec 7, 2014 00:58
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Yeah but it's the same as it always is, they'll always seat in an Avoda coalition if such a coalition has a chance to depose Bibi, similarly they'd never seat in a rightwing led coalition and they're also not as disgusting as Avoda on most issues so, why not vote for them again? Meretz talks big but the smaller parties don't really change poo poo at the end of the day. Ha'avoda having more seats might. Doflamingo fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 01:01
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Volkerball posted:I get your point, but it's a direct quote from Herzog, not the Times inner "When genocide is permissible" showing through. In fact, they even disclaimered it. Well, sorry to have falsely impugned the integrity of Times of Israel, but it would have been nice if you had bothered disclaimering it in order to avoid confusing the low-attention reader of this thread. And frankly, how about you don't try to argue with Israelis about how the Israeli political system works based off of a news article you seem to have barely skimmed yourself?
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Dec 7, 2014 01:02
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Well, sorry to have falsely impugned the integrity of Times of Israel, but it would have been nice if you had bothered disclaimering it in order to avoid confusing the low-attention reader of this thread. And frankly, how about you don't try to argue with Israelis about how the Israeli political system works based off of a news article you seem to have barely skimmed yourself? I was basing it off the hour long conversation with Herzog. I just dug up an article real quick to cite his muslim brotherhood thing. I never asserted anything other than that he was the opposition leader and the leader of Labor, so sorry if I offended you by bringing up things to talk about, I guess. 
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Dec 7, 2014 01:07
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 "For some reason, the police are afraid to crack down on crime in Arab cities."
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Dec 7, 2014 01:27
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He just accused Jordan and Lebanon of "real" apartheid in the Palestinian refugee camps. Interviewer was like "This is pure mythology."
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Dec 7, 2014 01:38
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Volkerball posted:I was basing it off the hour long conversation with Herzog. I just dug up an article real quick to cite his muslim brotherhood thing. I never asserted anything other than that he was the opposition leader and the leader of Labor, so sorry if I offended you by bringing up things to talk about, I guess. Sorry, I'm being too testy. Still upset at that oil spill, I guess I hadn't realized how much I cared about that damned stretch of desert. 
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Dec 7, 2014 02:34
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Sorry, I'm being too testy. Still upset at that oil spill, I guess I hadn't realized how much I cared about that damned stretch of desert. Even the desert has life that will be impacted by this.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:36
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CommieGIR posted:Even the desert has life that will be impacted by this. I know. I've lived and traveled there quite a bit as a kid.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:44
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I know. I've lived and traveled there quite a bit as a kid. You should go take photos and start an American fundraising drive for relief assistance. Seriously. The desert has more life than most are willing to give credit. I do wonder, what are the long-term projections for climate change's impact upon Israel.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:11
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My Imaginary GF posted:You should go take photos and start an American fundraising drive for relief assistance. Seriously. Hopefully people on the ground will do something of that sort. As for climate change, Irsael's Ministry of Environmental Protection published a survey of that early this year. From their findings, what you may find relevant: --- Water Resources Israel’s water sector is expected to be highly affected by climate change. Reduced rainfall and increased extreme weather events are likely to increase flooding and surface runoff as well as to reduce water recharge. While desalination and advanced wastewater treatment for agricultural reuse are helping to close the gap between water supply and demand in Israel, they are expensive and energy intensive, resulting in increased emissions of pollutants and greenhouse gases. Thirty-one strategies for coping with the effects of climate change on Israel’s water sector, ranging from the most desirable (“no regret”) to the least desirable (“high egret”), were identified by the ICCIC’s water sector team. Recommendations call for promoting research and raising public awareness, using water saving devices and minimizing water losses, increasing wastewater treatment, preventing pollution and remediating contaminated wells, advancing water-sensitive planning, promoting rain harvesting, and reusing greywater and treated wastewater. Given the existence of several seawater desalination facilities in Israel, ICCIC experts have classified the building of additional facilities as a “high regret” strategy. Public Health Climate change is expected to affect public health directly through physical influences such as extreme heat and cold events and indirectly through the effect on chronic and infectious diseases and on mortality and morbidity from external sources. Extreme weather conditions are known to increase the frequency of certain illnesses, such as cardiovascular and respiratory diseases, while climate change is known to affect the presence and behavior of vector-borne diseases. Other climate factors, such as ultra-violet radiation, are associated with such diseases as cancer and cataracts. Moreover, climate-induced environmental and ecological changes are expected to change the geographical distribution of diseases and their seasonal patterns. Since the effects of climate change on the health sector are not fully understood, a “no regret” perspective is advocated based on the allocation of resources for reparatory measures that will have a positive effect on public health, with or without climate change. “No regret” interventions include air pollution improvement, construction of green neighborhoods and support for healthy lifestyles, all of which can reduce the frequency of the risk factors for chronic diseases. Recommendations call for real-time monitoring and coordinated response to extreme events together with coordinated adaptation to gradual changes in temperature and rainfall which could lead to the outbreak of diseases due to the invasion of new disease vectors. In parallel, the recommendations call for strengthening the preparedness of the health system through such means as personnel training and dissemination of information and guidelines to employees and the public. Geostrategy In the multidisciplinary geostrategy field, three major climate-induced risks are expected to affect Israel – water shortage, rising sea level and rising temperatures. Other areas that may be impacted by the combined effects of climate change include tourism, transportation, energy and national infrastructures, food security, fires, migration and geopolitics. Despite the potentially profound effects on Israel and its neighbors, insufficient knowledge exists on such issues as the geostrategic balance of power in the Middle East, water resources, migration patterns to, around or through Israel, accelerated energy consumption, food availability and preparedness of the defense system for the anticipated climatic changes. Israel should take into account the impact of climate change on its domestic and foreign policy and national security, including such issues as the allocation of sufficient domestic resources for future preparedness and adaptation, possible dependence on foreign aid in times of crisis, adjustments within the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) and the defense system as a whole, and more. The main recommendation is for Israel to transform the threats and risks of climate change into a lever for the advancement of projects that should be carried out in any case, in accordance with the “no regret” strategy: enhancement of water production, preservation of agricultural land, development of a policy on underground construction, securing the food supply and food storage, and securing the energy supply, including local natural gas resources. Economy The interdisciplinary economic perspective relates to all the impacts outlined above and estimates their effect on the Israeli economy. While the economic assessment of different adaptation measures has been extensively researched, most studies provide an evaluation at a global or regional level rather than a national or local level. Research on adaptation costs for Israel is scarce, and most of the existing economic studies focus on sea level rise or climate change impact on agriculture. Some recent economic studies employ the “top-down” method of CGE (Computable General Equilibrium) or IAM (Integrated Assessment Models) to evaluate the cost of greenhouse gas mitigation programs or climate change damage costs in Israel. To help professionals and policy makers identify the most suitable interventions for reducing damage, improving adaptation capacity and increasing resilience, a qualitative assessment of the costs and benefits of adaptation options in the different areas was initiated. Market failures in the adaptation process were identified along with projects and policies that will enhance well-being, even if the climate scenarios are not realized in their full severity (“no regret” strategies). The next stage in the process should include detailed research on selected adaptation policies, recommendations for appropriate policies, determination of an efficiency index and time range for each type of policy, and an evaluation of the efficiency of the policies.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:57
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Volkerball posted:He just accused Jordan and Lebanon of "real" apartheid in the Palestinian refugee camps. Interviewer was like "This is pure mythology."
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Dec 7, 2014 04:08
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Volkerball posted:kill em before they grow up to be terrorists imo Did he really say this? (Or anything with obviously this meaning to it?)
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Dec 7, 2014 05:03
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Zerilan posted:Did he really say this? (Or anything with obviously this meaning to it?) Not to the Western audience, but I'm pretty confident he's said stuff like that on his racist rear end facebook page in Hebrew. I know for a fact Ayelet Shaked did though, and she's a member of his party, so I'm sure he's sympathetic to that viewpoint even if he's never outright said it. Look into the eyes of pure evil.  His overall theme this time seemed to be that the last thing Arabs in the west bank and Jerusalem want is to be ruled by the corrupt PA, so annexing those places is a good thing for everyone. Also that he thinks there is no solution for Gaza, so rather than chase after a 10 and wind up with a 0, he wants to settle for an achievable "7." That 7 is letting food (literally the only thing he offered. Fruits, vegetables, etc) into Gaza, but nothing that will help Gaza security-wise. So nothing that will help Gaza begin to develop to de-escalate tensions whatsoever, but it's ok because he never claimed it was a solution, it's just what we have. My favorite part was when he accused the "peace industry" for selling the idea that there can be perfect solutions to everything. He said the idea of a perfect solution was a Western construct, and that not everything has a solution. For instance, an imperfect marriage.  It's up on youtube now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzHzxwQBJLU It's actually pretty entertaining. The interviewer, Martin Indyk, did not agree with Bennett at all.
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Dec 7, 2014 16:57
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Volkerball posted:It's actually pretty entertaining. The interviewer, Martin Indyk, did not agree with Bennett at all. Ohoho, Martin Indyk. Recent and President Clinton Era US envoy to the talks, who quit in a huff earlier in the year because he mostly felt the Israeli side was making progress impossible? I may just get over my instinctive revulsion at Bennett and watch it. ETA: From the Middle East thread: quote:UNITED NATIONS: UN General Assembly overwhelmingly approved a resolution on Tuesday calling on Israel to renounce possession of nuclear weapons and put its nuclear facilities under international oversight. Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 18:44
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A mere few hours before the Knesset is disbanded Benett and Netanyahu are using quasi-illegal means to transfer an additional 30 million dollar to settlements, at least 10 million of which to build new settlements. A band of thieves and doomsday fetishists.
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Dec 8, 2014 11:39
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Quasi-illegal means?
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Dec 8, 2014 11:49
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http://www.timesofisrael.com/on-its-last-day-a-knesset-gripped-by-election-fever/quote:As Shafir protest the lack of transparency, Slomiansky twice kicked her out of the meeting for 15 minutes, and finally booted her out altogether. “You’re forbidding opposition?” she protested, in one exchange broadcast on Army Radio, which put the sum being allocated for settlement needs in this eleventh-hour meeting at 130 million shekels. Passing out pro-settlement budget allocations while kicking out opposition members asking questions, not illegal per-se, but it should be.
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Dec 8, 2014 12:30
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The police made arrests related to the arson of the bilingual school, in true 'Fascism on the rise' tradition so far they have been held in complete isolation and weren't allowed to meet with their lawyer.
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Dec 8, 2014 17:09
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In standard ritualistic fashion, the Military Police started investigation in a dozen or so cases (or whatever the correct term is. Violations? Accusations?) made during Cast Lead.
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Dec 8, 2014 17:57
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Ohoho, Martin Indyk. Recent and President Clinton Era US envoy to the talks, who quit in a huff earlier in the year because he mostly felt the Israeli side was making progress impossible? I may just get over my instinctive revulsion at Bennett and watch it. Sarcasm aside, I'm popping in to ask a quick question: did Bibi or Israel in general ever actually manage to provide evidence that supported their claim that Palestinians killed the three teenagers or did a couple thousand people die and we have to take their word for it?
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Dec 8, 2014 18:00
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InequalityGodzilla posted:
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Dec 8, 2014 18:03
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InequalityGodzilla posted:It'll never happen. I mean, Israel's got Palau on board, how is the UN supposed to beat that? I'm pretty sure they ended up connecting it to a Palestinian group with no ties to Hamas. Keep in mind, the tunnels were already an issue before the bombing started, and by the end of Protective Edge, it was the sole objective of the Israeli forces. So this operation was going to happen sooner or later based around the tunnels.
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Dec 8, 2014 18:03
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Volkerball posted:I'm pretty sure they ended up connecting it to a Palestinian group with no ties to Hamas. Keep in mind, the tunnels were already an issue before the bombing started, and by the end of Protective Edge, it was the sole objective of the Israeli forces. So this operation was going to happen sooner or later based around the tunnels. I don't think the article's available online anywhere, I can type it up later if anyone's looking for something to anger them.
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Dec 8, 2014 18:18
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Xander77 posted:You're behind on your narrative. Now it's "did Bibi or Israel in general every actually managed to prove this rogue lone-wolf unaffiliated and independent wing of the Hamas killed these teenagers on the direct (signed and notarized) written orders of the Hamas leadership?" That's a nice misleading way to phrase things, The Qawasmehs have stated specifically that they were operating without Hamas involvement, they are not an unaffiliated or independent wing of Hamas, they are not a part of Hamas at all they are more of an organized crime family than anything else; the only possible link to Hamas and/or other terrorist groups is the question of the procurement of funds (some 200,000 NIS) that was used to purchase a new car with an Israeli license plate and the assault rifles.
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Dec 8, 2014 18:20
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Also no one was ever made to respond to the revelation that they'd known the teens were dead before they killed several Palestinians and arrested 400 in the search. Nor does anyone particularly care that during the investigation, a group of Jewish Israelis brutally murdered a Palestinian Israeli and the police response (caught on tape) was to beat a false confession out of a (Palestinian) US citizen. Everything happened on the level.
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Dec 8, 2014 20:31
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Kajeesus posted:Also no one was ever made to respond to the revelation that they'd known the teens were dead before they killed several Palestinians and arrested 400 in the search. That did get some exposure in Israeli leftist social media, but nobody ever answered for that, yeah. quote:Nor does anyone particularly care that during the investigation, a group of Jewish Israelis brutally murdered a Palestinian Israeli and the police response (caught on tape) was to beat a false confession out of a (Palestinian) US citizen. Everything happened on the level. You are conflating two things. The Muhammad Abu-Khdeir was burned alive, right-wingers spread rumors that it was some kind of honor killing, and eventually the Jewish perpetrators were caught, and the are standing trial. Netanyahu, even Bennett called it out at the time. Separately from this, his cousin, Tarek, a Palestinian-American, was beaten senseless as he was cuffed, after being taken in for taking part in protests after Muhammad's murder. He was never, to my knowledge, investigated in relation to the murder of Muhammad, and left for the US shortly after the incident. None of those policemen have suffered any consequences that I am aware of.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:34
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Prior to the beating footage being released, Tarek made a blog post about the police refusing to cooperate with the investigation unless they got a written "admission" that there had been a family feud over Muhammad being gay. It was nowhere to be found after, I think. E: Although I thought there was footage of him being beaten after he'd already been taken to the station. Maybe I am confusing some things here.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:39
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So Bennet decided to try to befriend Saban and other "friends of israel. Turns out they are a little taken a back at his ideas. Mondoweiss posted:
Seriously he is making putin style threats here. Also he is making one of the major players in the pro Israel lobby really nervous. BTW could anyone explain to me the whole Jonathan Pollard case, I have gotten into a debate with some of those idiots who want to release him, and they keep claiming the guy is some Edward Snowden like figure.
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Dec 9, 2014 00:16
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Man, you have to love right wing Israelis they are like caricatures of South Africans or something. Warlike and racist but also deeply sensitive. Actually now that I think about it thats not a lot different from Freepers. Just love the whole "People boycotting over annexation of the West Bank? Must be anti-semites!" Thing. It can be a good sign though, movements tend to fall apart once they start snorting their own bullshit.
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Dec 9, 2014 00:32
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Crowsbeak posted:BTW could anyone explain to me the whole Jonathan Pollard case, I have gotten into a debate with some of those idiots who want to release him, and they keep claiming the guy is some Edward Snowden like figure. Duder tries to sell state secrets to an Israeli Air Force colonel for  , he claims because he was concerned that Navy Intelligence was withholding vital information from it's ally, and so he sold information to Israel...... and (apartheid-era) South Africa. And (many attempts to sell to) Pakistan. And (possibly) China. And the information he stole often had nothing to do with the security or stability of Israel including things like classified politician and economic analyses. At best he sold some intelligence reports, however well intentioned, to foreign governments, not leaking state secrets to the American public. At worst, he was trying to make money on the side as a spy for whatever nation was paying the bills. The dude is nothing really like Snowden, he's just a classic "dude who got security clearance but wanted a bigger paycheck".
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Dec 9, 2014 00:43
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