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namesake posted:a system of free movement allowing people to work where they like to address the problem of a regional skills mismatch [...] but noooo, that's impossible because its hard for businesses to make profits if that were to happen. aw poo poo my time machine took me back to 1351 again
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Dec 9, 2014 14:02
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Prince John posted:We've really got to find a better way of matching unemployment with desired skills. Is there any way to do it other than governments guessing at what skills will be in demand a few years down the line and funding training programs accordingly? Does the government get involved in targeted skills development at all?
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Dec 9, 2014 14:03
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Also it's unsurprising if they can't find many workers after blacklisting a shitload of them and many others then refusing to work for the company out of principle.
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Dec 9, 2014 14:29
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Surely there are bricklayers literally fountaining out of job centres what with all these apprenticeships the government is trumpeting. That's what apprenticeships still are, right? Learning a skilled trade? Right guys?
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Dec 9, 2014 14:33
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baka kaba posted:Surely there are bricklayers literally fountaining out of job centres what with all these apprenticeships the government is trumpeting. That's what apprenticeships still are, right? Learning a skilled trade? Right guys? Last time I checked it was learning to stack shelves in Tesco, or answering phones in a call centre.
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Dec 9, 2014 14:41
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namesake posted:Well we could have a system of free movement allowing people to work where they like to address the problem of a regional skills mismatch combined with strong welfare to prevent failing living standards from large movements in the working population but noooo, that's impossible because its hard for businesses to make profits if that were to happen. That sounds a bit to much like central planning to me and that interferes with the free market.
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Dec 9, 2014 14:48
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I had to go back to the loving jobcentre today for the first time in 2 years. I have to go back tommorow for first sign on. I was told my 3 options are a 'course' (dunno what that means) signing every day (inpractical) or slave labour (will turn to crime first). How about that for depressing.
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Dec 9, 2014 14:51
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Seaside Loafer posted:I had to go back to the loving jobcentre today for the first time in 2 years. I have to go back tommorow for first sign on. I was told my 3 options are a 'course' (dunno what that means) signing every day (inpractical) or slave labour (will turn to crime first).
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Dec 9, 2014 14:55
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Seaside Loafer posted:I had to go back to the loving jobcentre today for the first time in 2 years. I have to go back tommorow for first sign on. I was told my 3 options are a 'course' (dunno what that means) signing every day (inpractical) or slave labour (will turn to crime first). Find out more about the course then see if it is more of a time commitment than signing on every day. I thought you'd gone back to uni? Has that finished now or am I thinking about someone else?
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Dec 9, 2014 15:01
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Seaside Loafer posted:I had to go back to the loving jobcentre today for the first time in 2 years. I have to go back tommorow for first sign on. I was told my 3 options are a 'course' (dunno what that means) signing every day (inpractical) or slave labour (will turn to crime first). See if there's a course in bricklaying
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Dec 9, 2014 15:05
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hookerbot 5000 posted:I thought you'd gone back to uni? Has that finished now or am I thinking about someone else?  Everything has gone from happy ticking along doing nicely to complete loving disaster at a rapid pace. They are even going to bill me for this terms maint loan it seems.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:09
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Phoon posted:See if there's a course in bricklaying I believe he's already mastered that
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Dec 9, 2014 15:14
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Phoon posted:See if there's a course in bricklaying
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Dec 9, 2014 15:15
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KKKlean Energy posted:I believe he's already mastered that
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Dec 9, 2014 15:16
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Seaside Loafer posted:I did yeah but im getting kicked out because of funding, apparently there is some weird bullshit where the SLC remembers that I repeated a year 20 years ago and no one noticed until a couple of weeks ago. Im almost suicidally pissed off, I was doing really well as well Could you get a career development loan from a bank to make up the shortfall in the SLC funding?
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Dec 9, 2014 15:17
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Seaside Loafer posted:I had to go back to the loving jobcentre today for the first time in 2 years. I have to go back tommorow for first sign on. I was told my 3 options are a 'course' (dunno what that means) signing every day (inpractical) or slave labour (will turn to crime first). What's the point of signing in every day? It's not like there are job postings that are only open for 24 hours. When I was unemployed in Dumfriesshire, I lived about 10 miles from the nearest jobcenter and a return bus ticket was just short of £5 (and you don't get re-imbursed). I would have been fuming if they demanded I lose almost half my JSA doing something as pointless as that. In fact, the jobcenter was useless in general. All they had were these little terminals where you could search jobs and print out the details. I could do the same search from home. I could also apply online at home, but not at the jobcenter. I could check other job sites and company websites and email CVs from home but not from the jobcenter. The only purpose of the Jobcenter is to shame you and lower your self-worth.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:19
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Seaside Loafer posted:I did yeah but im getting kicked out because of funding, apparently there is some weird bullshit where the SLC remembers that I repeated a year 20 years ago and no one noticed until a couple of weeks ago. Im almost suicidally pissed off, I was doing really well as well That's rubbish, sorry to hear that Hopefully it'll all get sorted so you don't end up having to pay it at least til you're earning whatever the student loan threshold is.quote:Im going to ask the guy if there is a foriegn language course, if they actually have one that would be great. If the only options are cashier skills im going to mention that I wrote the software for one of the first touchscreen till systems in the uk and probably know more about how retails systems work than any store manager ... for all the good it will do me. I wouldn't get your hopes up too much, the course will almost definitely be 'How to be good at interviews' or 'Computer basics for people who don't know which way round to use a mouse'. Edit: bitterandtwisted posted:
That and to keep you away from your massive TV with full Sky subscription.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:20
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LemonDrizzle posted:Could you get a career development loan from a bank to make up the shortfall in the SLC funding?
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Dec 9, 2014 15:20
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Ddraig posted:From my experience of being unemployed, you basically turn up at the job center, give a list of what you've done to look for a job, they look over it disinterestedly and send you on your way. What a hellish system. It sounds outright dystopian.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:24
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bitterandtwisted posted:What's the point of signing in every day? It's not like there are job postings that are only open for 24 hours. According to the people at the Jobcenter (ha!) that's exactly what it's like. Postings that get put up in the morning and are gone by midday.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:26
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KKKlean Energy posted:I believe he's already mastered that 
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Dec 9, 2014 15:29
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In rare "Politician being not-poo poo" news, Dennis Skinner slapping UKIP down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnvGYAmpDxQ
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Dec 9, 2014 15:47
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Does the JobCentre ever advertise anything other than retail work? Like, do they have their own job ads system or are you just expected to browse Monster.com from within that particular building?
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Dec 9, 2014 15:52
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They have loads of jobs on their system a lot of which are chugger.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:57
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There's the universal jobmatch, which last I checked was full of anonymous job ads, each one showing up about eight times because they were put on reed or monster or something like that separately for each region. And none of the ads are for actually reputable companies, because they only take people who apply through their own site.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:00
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Dabir posted:There's the universal jobmatch, which last I checked was full of anonymous job ads, each one showing up about eight times because they were put on reed or monster or something like that separately for each region. And none of the ads are for actually reputable companies, because they only take people who apply through their own site. And unless things have changed, you explore this magical world through the worst touchscreen technology known to mankind
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Dec 9, 2014 16:12
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Dabir posted:According to the people at the Jobcenter (ha!) that's exactly what it's like. Postings that get put up in the morning and are gone by midday. Makes you wonder why an employer would bother advertising this way, doesn't give them much chance of finding good applicants. Can only imagine that these are jobs which they've already earmarked a current employee/ known person / family member for, but still have to advertise for legal reasons. Would make them particularly pointless jobs to apply for.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:27
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Seaside Loafer posted:I did yeah but im getting kicked out because of funding, apparently there is some weird bullshit where the SLC remembers that I repeated a year 20 years ago and no one noticed until a couple of weeks ago. Im almost suicidally pissed off, I was doing really well as well I'm very sorry to hear of this situation. It sounds eerily familiar, as something similar happened to my wife when she applied for student funding. She originally struggled through two years of university in the 1990s, but left due to severe depression brought on by a messed up family situation (she was a neglected child from a very young age due to alcoholism in the family). Because she had 2 years behind her, her uni gave her a Diploma of Higher Education (basically a cert saying she'd done 2 years). So, fast forward over 20 years and she felt she was ready to try again at the uni thing (having met me and got married in the meantime). However, the local college only offered the degree course she wanted as a split programme (2 years foundation + 1 year top up to full honours). Student Finance England conveniently rates a Diploma of Higher Education the same as a Foundation Degree, which we realised could be a problem as SFE won't pay out if the qualification you're going for is the same as one you already have (even if it's just a stepping stone on the way to a full degree). However, at the same time she had been forced out of uni due to illness, so there was some uncertainty as to whether this meant we could reapply for funding as though she'd never been to uni (there's conflicting advice concerning this). Being relatively clueless, we contacted SFE and explained the full situation and asked if there was any point in applying. The adviser on the phone was very positive and told us to go ahead. We did as we were asked, filled in all the forms and over the course of several months (and several phone calls) sent off various old medical reports on her depression to SFE, as well as testimony from her former 1990s uni tutor that her illness was legitimate. Finally, we got a letter from them saying we were entitled to funding. Excellent, or so we thought... Less than a month later, we got a mail in the post saying that because my wife had an "equivalent qualification", she was entitled to nothing and that all money that SFE had paid out to us (or her college) had to be paid back. On contacting SFE, the adviser claimed to know nothing of the history of her case (despite the fact we'd been in constant contact for months), and claimed he could not help. His manager was similarly unable to answer any queries and seemed totally out of his depth. We've entered an appeal but are not hopeful anything will come of it. I was irritated, not because my wife didn't get the money or because the reason they gave was wrong, but because we were encouraged to apply by SFE themselves, provided all the information and jumped through all their stupid hoops, only to have everything clawed back for a reason they'd had ever since we sent the first loving form off. In a way, we were really lucky that they retracted everything relatively quickly after agreeing to it, or we'd have been totally screwed financially. There is no oversight of SFE by anyone it seems, and no real independent recourse for people whose lives are totally messed about because of their mistakes. The decision whether or not to go back into education, particularly for mature students, can have severe financial impacts. The fact that SFE can confirm and pay out funding, only to turn around and demand tens of thousands of pounds back at a moment's notice, only adds to the stress involved.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:28
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Galaspar posted:Makes you wonder why an employer would bother advertising this way, doesn't give them much chance of finding good applicants. Can only imagine that these are jobs which they've already earmarked a current employee/ known person / family member for, but still have to advertise for legal reasons. Would make them particularly pointless jobs to apply for. The implication I got was that they put the thing up and by midday they've had hundreds of applicants and have to close it or they'll never get through them all. Wouldn't be surprised really.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:46
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I got a job in university for the summer through JobCentre Plus with Arcedia Direct. It was advertised as a decent wage going door to door offering Scottish Power plans, but what it actually was commission work with no wage at all. Something I didn't even find out until I'd got until the end of my first month of 12 hour shifts, which had been pretty poo poo because it was a wet month and had rained like hell. That's about when I realized that JobCentre Plus hadn't actually got me a job and I was self employed and due to commission cuts and them holding a portion of commissions for a few months in case of defaults I wasn't going to see much money for all the effort I'd put in. I should have probably have known it wasn't a job a lot earlier but I was dumb student who honestly didn't know better. I thought the job center was setting me up for work, not setting me up to get hosed over by a pyramid selling scheme. Edit: Looking it up now, turns out the Mirror did an article on it a year after I quit. http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations/2009/10/undercover-proof-of-arcedia-ru.html Fans fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Dec 9, 2014 |
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Dec 9, 2014 17:34
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Did it say anything about On Target Earnings or OTE? All sales jobs use ludicrously improbable assumptions about how many widgets you'll sell when they calculate those.
Zephro fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Dec 9, 2014 |
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Dec 9, 2014 17:43
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Funerals are becoming so hard to afford that some people are burying relatives in their back gardens, according to an MP.  quote:The Labour MP for South Shields said the average funeral had reached £3,551. [...] SunLife Direct's annual Cost of Dying report said the average cost of a funeral had increased by 87% since 2004.
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Dec 9, 2014 17:49
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Zephro posted:Did it say anything about On Target Earnings or OTE? All sales jobs have use ludicrously improbable assumptions about how many widgets you'll sell when they calculate those. Never heard anything about OTE, might be a new thing. They said you'd sell around three a day, which was bollocks because most people were lucky to sell one. The whole time though they were never very forthcoming with any information, if you asked about wage they'd tell you average wages for someone working there and potential earnings but they'd skirt around the fact there wasn't an actual wage and they never mentioned I was self employed once.
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Dec 9, 2014 17:49
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Zephro posted:Did it say anything about On Target Earnings or OTE? All sales jobs use ludicrously improbable assumptions about how many widgets you'll sell when they calculate those. From the Mirror article quote:
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Dec 9, 2014 17:54
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hookerbot 5000 posted:From the Mirror article As a PSA to any other teenagers possibly reading this: sales jobs are generally the pits, and anything they tell you about your likely commission is almost certainly bollocks.
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Dec 9, 2014 18:05
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goddamnedtwisto posted:If we're thinking about the same documentary (it was a three-parter) the lion's share of arrests featured wre from Operation Ore, and more than one of the men who went on to commit suicide was exonerated. Didn't matter, the local Plod had already let all his neighbours know exactly what he'd been arrested for. I think there were two documentaries that came out around the same time, one was mainly focused around Ore and the other was more focused on the day to day workings of the police who do this stuff routinely and featured ferret guy. I'll see if I can dig up the names, they were interesting. I think I read something recently that operation Ore caught up a load of people who had their cards cloned? Obviously people who are caught up and falsely labeled as pedophiles shouldn't be driven to suicide, or have their lives ruined. But ferretman was somewhat lacking in remorse and as I said, he had actually featured in videos that showed him raping kids. I know victims of pedophiles, some of whom have got away with it. I don't want to nudge nudge wink wink make jokes about prisons, the systems here and in the US are repugnant and there are clearly issues with the police individually and as an institution. But the small groups of people who whether police or social services who actually try to catch and prosecute these people deserve praise. I couldn't care less what happens to the perpetrators.
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Dec 9, 2014 18:21
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I'm now finding myself desperately applying for lovely data entry jobs because I had a bit of experience of that before uni. They pay abysmally and from memory are soul crushing, but I'm up for anything that gets me out of the JobCentre. I have a loving master's degree. What is going on with this country. e: Oh yeah and my dad loves to get very confused and frustrated asking me why I can't find anything and suggesting that I'm just lazing around. It's loving ridiculous. I can't be mad I guess, in his day having any degree at all effectively guaranteed you could walk into a decent job. Seaside Loafer posted:I had to go back to the loving jobcentre today for the first time in 2 years. I have to go back tommorow for first sign on. I was told my 3 options are a 'course' (dunno what that means) signing every day (inpractical) or slave labour (will turn to crime first). Wait what they said that from the get go? I thought you signed every two weeks for the first six months or so, then they started pushing the course/slave labour poo poo on you after that. If I recall properly from when I was 18, a 'couse' is just sitting around an A4E (or equivalent) office being talked down to and treated like scum for a few days. Beats slave labour I guess! ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Dec 9, 2014 |
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Dec 9, 2014 18:34
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Saki posted:This would be nightmarishly expensive and an absolutely enormous workload to administer. In an ideal world... haha utter, utter bullshit. It'd be a piece of piss with a proper council housing infrastructure. Opt-in to register your skillsets and quals, job offer comes up, system matches your jobset to job and local council house, offer to move is sent. What you mean is this requires a difficult and deliberately moderated housing surplus to safeguard us against hyperinflation without deflating the entire economy, and strong government social control of said houses. In a not shite world... ThomasPaine posted:
My dad did this, although not too much, before the company he managed a front for went under. He spent two years moving between gimmicky vehicle-maufacture firms for six months at a time, met Nigel Farage a bit, and now hates tories.
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Dec 9, 2014 18:36
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Spangly A posted:My dad did this, although not too much, before the company he managed a front for went under. He spent two years moving between gimmicky vehicle-maufacture firms for six months at a time, met Nigel Farage a bit, and now hates tories. Yeah, I think I've talked him round now. He's now more just confused and angry at the same things I am, but there's always that underlying feeling of disapproval which to be honest I imagine is pretty difficult to shake.
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Dec 9, 2014 18:40
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So the job centre's a lost cause, that's pretty obvious. What else is there? How the hell are we supposed to get into work these days? Most likely answer: we're not, gently caress us.
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Dec 9, 2014 18:48
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