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Didn't Peter King literally fund the IRA before he became America's #1 opponent of those dastardly browm mooslim terrorists? A guy who can do those mental gymnastics can provably justify anything. The real fun question would be to ask him if it would have been okay for scotland yard to do these exact things to IRA members (and a few random innocent cab drivers thrown in). Basically, if CIA torture offers another opportunity to watch Peter King defend white terrorists in the same breath he attacks brown ones, then it was worth it.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 03:42 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 14:59 |
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Badger of Basra posted:It's not really "tarring" when the only people who will take it that way are people who already don't like them anyway. Every CIA agent who gets a preemptive pardon from Obama will go on Fox talking about how it's really a badge of honor and if the usurper in chief thinks I shouldn't have protected the country, well that's his problem. People who care about torture will continue to think it is wrong. Nothing changes. It removes the defense of "well the obama administration didn't think it was a crime, and thats why we in the clinton-2 administration feel confident that ramming feeding tubes up asses is a legal and acceptable enhanced interrogation technique".
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 03:42 |
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Papercut posted:On the News Hour today, their guest objected to the term "torture" so for the rest of the discussion both sides referred only to "EITs" (enhanced interrogation techniques). Awesome work NPR. That's PBS, but awesmoe posted:It removes the defense of "well the obama administration didn't think it was a crime, and thats why we in the clinton-2 administration feel confident that ramming feeding tubes up asses is a legal and acceptable enhanced interrogation technique". Yeah a pardon is something actually doable that at least officially categorizes what happened as crimes. See Nixon's library if you think it wasn't effective.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 03:47 |
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Has anyone heard any media outlet call this rape yet? I've only seen it referred to as rectal feeding so far, which is approximately the same thing as calling it EIT instead of torture.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 03:53 |
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Kazak_Hstan posted:Didn't Peter King literally fund the IRA before he became America's #1 opponent of those dastardly browm mooslim terrorists? A guy who can do those mental gymnastics can provably justify anything. Thing only thing you'll find consistent here are Republicans defending Bush and Cheney, because this is pretty drat incriminating: Fred Kaplan posted:Of all the shocks and revelations in the Senate Intelligence Committee’s report on CIA torture, one seems very strange and unlikely: that the agency misinformed the White House and didn’t even brief President George W. Bush about its controversial program until April 2006.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 03:56 |
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Kazak_Hstan posted:Has anyone heard any media outlet call this rape yet? I've only seen it referred to as rectal feeding so far, which is approximately the same thing as calling it EIT instead of torture. I some ways, I think rectal feeding is the better term. I mean, yes, rape is a powerful, emotive term, but shunting entire meals up someone's rear end to gently caress up their digestive system somehow seems even more horrifying, and the more precise 'rectal feeding' seems to better encapsulate what made it special. 'Anal food rape', maybe?
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 04:01 |
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Shbobdb posted:So, how would someone apply for a job at one of these CIA torture sites? How do you get yourself in that situation? If we're going to have an evil gravy train, may as well be on it! First thing first, make sure your history is squeaky clean. No arrests, no unpaid bills, no positive drug tests, etc. Also make sure all your friends and family will only say nice things about you when federal investigators come to ask questions. Funfact: Mormons have a disproportionately high representation in our intelligence services because they get through background checks really easily! Next, have some sort of college degree - a soft one in psychology or foreign relations is generally a good bet. If you can take some beginners classes in Arabic, that helps, but isn't necessary. Lastly have no scruples. If you can check those three boxes, then check cia.gov for their next recruiting meet & greet (they have a few per year) and just show up to hand in a resume and fill out an application. Congrats, you're on your way to a rewarding career in atrocities and war crimes!
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 04:12 |
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Weltlich posted:First thing first, make sure your history is squeaky clean. No arrests, no unpaid bills, no positive drug tests, etc. Also make sure all your friends and family will only say nice things about you when federal investigators come to ask questions. Funfact: Mormons have a disproportionately high representation in our intelligence services because they get through background checks really easily! Uh, according to the report, it would help more to have been discharged under other than honorable conditions from a military intelligence job, have anger management issues, and be an admitted sexual predator.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 04:14 |
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Darth Walrus posted:I some ways, I think rectal feeding is the better term. I mean, yes, rape is a powerful, emotive term, but shunting entire meals up someone's rear end to gently caress up their digestive system somehow seems even more horrifying, and the more precise 'rectal feeding' seems to better encapsulate what made it special. 'Anal food rape', maybe? I don't think rape is appropriate because it's powerful or emotive, but because it is correct. The CIA documents acknowledged they used the technique instead of safe IV/nasal alternatives because it furthered their goal of creating a power dynamic based on humiliation and fear. Nonconsensual penetration of the anus is included under the U.S. Code (and any state statute I am familiar with) definition of rape: quote:penetration, however slight, of the vulva or anus or mouth, of another by any part of the body or by any object, with an intent to abuse, humiliate, harass, or degrade any person or to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person. 10 U.S.C §920(g)(1)(B), provided one of the compulsion elements of subsection (a) is present, which they were. It's right there next to the hold a bitch down and gently caress her subsection. If this had been a female detainee and they raped her with a penis to break her, that would be the numero uno thing people talk about. This is the same thing, at least according to the U.S. Code (and I would argue under any sane definition of rape, though I don't want to derail into a debate about what counts as "rape rape"). They shoved things up peoples' asses for the sole purpose of humiliating them. That's rape, and it should be called rape.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 04:23 |
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Stultus Maximus posted:Uh, according to the report, it would help more to have been discharged under other than honorable conditions from a military intelligence job, have anger management issues, and be an admitted sexual predator. These things are just gravy for the resume's bullet points. The important part is that you say you ar willing to work overseas assignments. Otherwise you get stuck in DC doing analyst work instead of analist work in Poland.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 04:29 |
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Kazak_Hstan posted:Has anyone heard any media outlet call this rape yet? I've only seen it referred to as rectal feeding so far, which is approximately the same thing as calling it EIT instead of torture. Over here the Guardian called it "rectal assault" in its sub-headline for the story, which I thought was a good phrase for it. Rectal feeding conjures something more medical than blending up prison food and pumping it into people's arses for no reason other than torture. Its really lovely but not remotely surprising a lot of news is taking the "Just a little waterboarding nobody really got hurt" stance, but the report is basically geared to do that. It was the first thing I thought on reading it is "this is horrible, but all the worst stuff is in the margins" the main body concerns waterboarding and stress positions and focusses on how effective the torture was at gathering intelligence. This stance is much like the anti-Iraq war liberal hawks whose opposition was based on how badly it was run. The idea is if it was effective torture would be fine.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 04:30 |
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It appears from the report most of the interrogators were ex-CIA hired by the psychologist contractors. So, join the CIA and then decide that working for the CIA isn't extreme enough for you.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 04:30 |
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Trabisnikof posted:It appears from the report most of the interrogators were ex-CIA hired by the psychologist contractors. So, join the CIA and then decide that working for the CIA isn't extreme enough for you. More like "and then become 'subcontracted' to add more layers of obfuscation"
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 04:32 |
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Bel Shazar posted:More like "and then become 'subcontracted' to add more layers of obfuscation" Oh sure, but if you want the actual job of torturing people you need to be ex-CIA and connected in the right circles. However, there are lots of jobs where you'd get to help torture people, with opportunities in every career field!
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 04:34 |
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Weltlich posted:These things are just gravy for the resume's bullet points. The important part is that you say you ar willing to work overseas assignments. Otherwise you get stuck in DC doing analyst work instead of analist work in Poland. Actual interview footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_urvjCXg6c
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 04:34 |
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Trabisnikof posted:That's PBS, but Don't worry I've heard plenty of CIA apologists on NPR getting softballed as well
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 04:39 |
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awesmoe posted:It removes the defense of "well the obama administration didn't think it was a crime, and thats why we in the clinton-2 administration feel confident that ramming feeding tubes up asses is a legal and acceptable enhanced interrogation technique". You're right, that's why Reagan was skittish about expanding presidential power.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 04:40 |
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Antares posted:Don't worry I've heard plenty of CIA apologists on NPR getting softballed as well If they ask the hard questions nobody will come back to talk to them.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 04:40 |
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This is the reason no one is going to go to jail: "If a defendant has a good faith belief that his actions will not result in prolonged mental harm, he lacks the mental state necessary for his actions to constitute torture. A defendant could show that he acted in good faith by taking such steps as surveying professional literature, consulting with experts, or reviewing evidence gained from past experience." Oh man this bit is even better: VF posted:However, the conflict even exceeded the multiple roles played by the psychologists. Ultimately, according to the report, the C.I.A.’s Office of Medical Services raised concerns that the conflicts of interest were “nowhere more graphic than in the setting in which the same individuals applied an [enhanced interrogation technique] which only they were approved to employ, judged both its effectiveness and detainee resilience, and implicitly proposed continued use of the technique—at a daily compensation reported to be $1800/day, or four times that of interrogators who could not use the technique.” Why yes, this thing that I authorize only myself to do and pays $1800 a day is totally working! Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Dec 11, 2014 |
# ? Dec 11, 2014 04:42 |
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Trabisnikof posted:This is the reason no one is going to go to jail: Awesome, so studying better ways to torture people is acting in good faith and negates the torture. Makes sense.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 05:06 |
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Trabisnikof posted:This is the reason no one is going to go to jail: That's just, like, Jay Bybee's opinion, man.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 05:09 |
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Antares posted:Don't worry I've heard plenty of CIA apologists on NPR getting softballed as well Mike Morell was on CBS News this morning displaying his freshman level understanding of ethics. He essentially admited that he would kill 1,000 people to save 1,001. It is comforting to know that it isn't just local police who callously disregard the dignity of humanity, but that all our institutions of justice and national security are rotten to the core with violence and depravity.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 05:20 |
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Unhinged Vulcan posted:https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/index.html Everyone should apply and list experience with anal on their resume.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 05:47 |
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Bel Shazar posted:If they ask the hard questions nobody will come back to talk to them. That would be a net good.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 07:37 |
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Of course there's a link to the Contras:quote:In the 1980s, a CIA officer devised an interrogation manual for the use of the U.S.-backed contras fighting the government of Nicaragua, which included the use of violence to elicit information. The CIA’s inspector general recommended that the officer be admonished for inappropriate use of interrogation techniques. It appears from the Senate report that this same man became the officer in charge of CIA interrogations in 2002.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 08:45 |
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fade5 posted:E: Or did this happen some time in the past, like back when Gaddafi was still in power? You know how Gaddafi was, after decades of hostility, getting closer and closer to the West before the whole Arab Spring thing happened? Think about how that happened. Jagchosis posted:john yoo explained his strategy for appearing slick in interviews to me: government types are generally given a set of 2 or 3 talking points to repeat with different wording, and journalists (and stewart) know this, so if you anticipate what talking points the journos are expecting in advance just completely talk around it and talk about something that they don't expect, but make it sound like you're answering their question. please tell me if he deploys this strategy on CNN, or if he's refined it Jagchosis suffered more consequences for ommitting punctuation from this post than Bush & Cheney et al ever will for rectal feeding, waterboarding and straight up murder. Serious question, how does anyone still take any US law seriously after this? Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Dec 11, 2014 |
# ? Dec 11, 2014 11:05 |
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I didn't know American Dad was a documentary. I am disgusted by this as much as videos of ISIS assholes beheading people. The US is no better than ISIS. You are both terrorist. I am disgusted by having my country allied with yours. If you do not prosecute these people no matter their position, you will have completely lost your soul as a country.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 11:43 |
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Regarding Bush: Cheney claims he knew everything (also the report is bullshit):quote:But the former Republican vice-president dismissed this, saying: "The notion that the committee is trying to peddle that somehow the agency was operating on a rogue basis and that we weren't being told - that the president wasn't being told - is a flat-out lie." http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30427211
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 14:07 |
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Cheney should be tried and hung.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 14:10 |
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Cheney should be tried and hung. he's halfway there
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 14:25 |
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This was all over the internet this morning
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 14:31 |
Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:This was all over the internet this morning Joke's on them: torture doesn't gather information.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 14:40 |
They don't care it's all about revenge on people that were already dead before the guy in the photo.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 14:42 |
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:This was all over the internet this morning Too bad the CIA is pretty terrible at identifying terrorists.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 14:55 |
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Badger of Basra posted:It's not really "tarring" when the only people who will take it that way are people who already don't like them anyway. Every CIA agent who gets a preemptive pardon from Obama will go on Fox talking about how it's really a badge of honor and if the usurper in chief thinks I shouldn't have protected the country, well that's his problem. People who care about torture will continue to think it is wrong. Nothing changes. This doesn't really matter, because history shows people look back and have negative views of these types of things. Pardoning them would suggest they committed a crime and be a victory for being on the right side of history. In 40 years once many of the baby boomers are dead I doubt anyone who isn't sociopathic or self-absorbed will defend the Bush-era torture programs. Pardoning them would go a long way to creating that view. Of course, Obama is a coward and probably won't. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Dec 11, 2014 |
# ? Dec 11, 2014 14:59 |
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I hope I never die in a terrorist attack so republicans can't use pictures of me to justify their war crimes.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 15:03 |
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Joke's on them: torture doesn't gather information. I'm sure you only say that because some liberals told you so. That CIA gentleman on the television told me that they've prevented five 9/11s already.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 15:05 |
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Joke's on them: torture doesn't gather information. Everyone in the CIA program is a vetted terrorist, right? Right?
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 15:06 |
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mobby_6kl posted:Regarding Bush: Cheney claims he knew everything (also the report is bullshit): http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30423280 Hayden said the same thing. I don't know if this interview has been posted in this thread yet, but you should watch it. Hayden is this huge dick the whole time and then at the end he's like, "Reminder that all this happened before I came in and actually I took dudes out of the black sites". The best part about what Hayden says is, when asked if Bush knew he says "Oh, he knew. [pause] I don't know when he knew it but by the time that I blah blah blah" so you can literally see the words "What did the President know and when did he know it" in a thought bubble above his head.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 15:52 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 14:59 |
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:This was all over the internet this morning Please respond with this Ward Sutton cartoon Bel Shazar posted:If they ask the hard questions nobody will come back to talk to them. People say that, but if you have a large enough audience, I bet most will be willing to give it a go anyways.
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# ? Dec 11, 2014 16:02 |