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Am I wasting my time and an interviewer's time if the position posts an "expected max starting salary" that is significantly below what I would accept? It's for a non-profit, but I do the same thing for a non-profit right now and get paid 20% more - and that's still well below the market rate for the same job at a for-profit company. If it's worth pursuing, how can I delicately broach the subject while making it clear I need at least 20% more? I know some people in this thread recommend trying to make up for a lower salary in other ways (vacation, 401k, etc.) but 20% is a long way to go...
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Nov 25, 2014 20:23
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Guinness posted:But they are legally required to pay you out for any accrued vacation time or bonuses that are on the books but not paid out yet. Anyway, I think it's a moot point. This is a 6000+ person company, we'd be parting ways on good terms, and I'm not a network guy with root access to everything or anything like that. At worst I think they'd simply say that my last day will have to be 12/31.
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Nov 25, 2014 20:56
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Mary loving Poppins posted:Am I wasting my time and an interviewer's time if the position posts an "expected max starting salary" that is significantly below what I would accept? It's for a non-profit, but I do the same thing for a non-profit right now and get paid 20% more - and that's still well below the market rate for the same job at a for-profit company. If it's worth pursuing, how can I delicately broach the subject while making it clear I need at least 20% more? I know some people in this thread recommend trying to make up for a lower salary in other ways (vacation, 401k, etc.) but 20% is a long way to go... Straight up you are going to make less money at a non-profit than a for-profit for an equivalent role, such that there are basically two market rates. If you absolutely need to be making what you are now+, I wouldn't bother.
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Nov 25, 2014 21:57
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Skier posted:Glad I didn't put out a number first: the verbal offer I received last week was $10k/year higher than what I would have said. Hopefully final check-in on this topic: I received another offer that came in after I accepted a different one, and it paid within $1,000 of the pulled offer, but had way better benefits and paid hourly instead of salary. Another tally for the "attempt to be gamed" point of view on that pulled offer. Total of three offers made to me and the pulled one was the weakest. I tried scheduling a face to face with the hiring manager for the pulled offer two or three times and it was like pulling teeth, so I've given up on trying to figure out why the offer was pulled. Today was my first day with the new company and I think it'll be a great fit. 
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Dec 2, 2014 05:20
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1) Does anyone have any experience negotiating contracts regarding joining a medical practice or other similar small business? It's tricky because you're starting off as an employee with the expectation that you'll buy in to the practice and become partner in 2 years or so if everyone is happy. Obviously, when you buy in to a practice, you need an accountant to go over all the books. Would it be weird to hire an accountant to go over everything before you even sign the initial contract? I ask because your 1st year income is usually a combination of base salary and an incentive bonus as a percentage of the gross profit that you bring in. An accountant would be useful to determine what that potential gross profit is (depends on insurance mix, overheads, types of procedures, etc.) Or should I just trust their estimates? Also, you're negotiating against the senior partner, and every dollar they give you as an employee is a dollar out of their pocket, so both parties have a lot on the line. 2) How far is it reasonable to feign interest in other practices if I don't really want to go there. I interviewed at 5 practices, but there are 2 that I realistically will not be joining. Right now, they're saying that if I'm interested, they'll go ahead and draft a contract. Can I say "Hell yeah I'm interested" and use it in my negotiations with the places that I actually want to go to? Some people say that hammering out a contract has the expectation that you'll sign if things are reasonable. I wouldn't sign with them unless the money was very unreasonable.
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Dec 3, 2014 01:12
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potatoducks posted:
It kind of does, and while I'd say go for it if you were applying to a large corporation, it's pretty rude when you're looking at smaller businesses, who might start passing over other candidates with the expectation that you're joining. You could do it, but given that you have three other potential places to join, I personally wouldn't start negotiating with the other two if you aren't interested.
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Dec 3, 2014 01:17
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I don't have any medical experience. Generally i'd say if you're making a commitment up front to buy in subject to whatever then you should totally see the books now. If the buy in is at your option then you can probably be more flexible on it but I'd still want summary financials or something. In terms of negotiating, it's not really on you if a business doesn't have the same mindset to keep looking until someone's signed. If they're smart they'll keep talking to people and say 'we're negotiating with someone but you're top of our list of that falls through'. Either way it's not on you, and if it gives you a better sense of what kind of deals are in the market you're in then it's information positive to you. The only consideration for this is if it's a small community and there's a risk they start badmouthing you but that would be horrifically unprofessional on their part.
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Dec 3, 2014 01:34
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potatoducks posted:1) Does anyone have any experience negotiating contracts regarding joining a medical practice or other similar small business? It's tricky because you're starting off as an employee with the expectation that you'll buy in to the practice and become partner in 2 years or so if everyone is happy. Obviously, when you buy in to a practice, you need an accountant to go over all the books. Would it be weird to hire an accountant to go over everything before you even sign the initial contract? RE #2: I think if you tell them the price where you'd go to work there, then you have no other obligations to dissuade them from drafting a contract. The difference between 3 legitimate options and 5 legitimate options is not nearly as big as the difference between one and two, so I wouldn't lie to them in an attempt to get competing offers. Also you might be getting into a mental trap of overplaying your hand. If there's only three places you'd legitimately work at, there are only three places you would legitimately work at. If you play up those undesirable opportunities too much, you may end up backing yourself into a corner where they are the only opportunities left for you.
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Dec 3, 2014 15:26
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:RE #2: I think if you tell them the price where you'd go to work there, then you have no other obligations to dissuade them from drafting a contract. The difference between 3 legitimate options and 5 legitimate options is not nearly as big as the difference between one and two, so I wouldn't lie to them in an attempt to get competing offers. Yeah, but the problem is that I want them to mention a number first right? Isn't that the number one rule? They're offering to draw up a contract even before we even discuss salary. Dwight Eisenhower posted:Also you might be getting into a mental trap of overplaying your hand. If there's only three places you'd legitimately work at, there are only three places you would legitimately work at. If you play up those undesirable opportunities too much, you may end up backing yourself into a corner where they are the only opportunities left for you. Well, that's 3 out of the 5 places I interviewed at. I'm not looking to start until next July at the earliest. If everything somehow falls though, I figure I can just interview at more places and be more liberal with my selection criteria. I'll keep that in mind though, thanks.
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Dec 3, 2014 20:33
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potatoducks posted:Yeah, but the problem is that I want them to mention a number first right? Isn't that the number one rule? They're offering to draw up a contract even before we even discuss salary. Ideally you try to force them to offer a price because generally one of three things are true: they want to pay you more than you're looking for, they want to pay you less than you're looking for, or they want to pay you around what you are looking for. In the first case, if you quote a price first, you never know what they were expecting to pay you, you gain that information and can start negotiating from a position of strength. In the second, you are unlikely to meet up on an acceptable price anyway, so you lose nothing. In the third you are going to be so close to each other that aggressive negotiation will get finely grained and detailed, and you have anchored the discussion near the top of what they want to pay. If you have opportunities that absent price you are pessimistic about, come up with a silly number. A high number that makes you happy to take that opportunity. This does two things, either you get that number and you are now making bank, or they balk and you don't get it, but don't have to burn any bridges or shut down negotiations. These rules are good guidelines and applying them aggressively should lead to many people getting paid better than they otherwise would, but you need to understand why we advise people of things like "Don't give out a number first." and "Don't ever tell anyone what you make now.", which come down to the psychology of adversarial negotiation. For a job you don't want you have literally nothing to lose, so you can get totally ridiculous in what you ask for without caring if they balk. potatoducks posted:Well, that's 3 out of the 5 places I interviewed at. I'm not looking to start until next July at the earliest. If everything somehow falls though, I figure I can just interview at more places and be more liberal with my selection criteria. I'll keep that in mind though, thanks. I got knocked on my rear end in 2010 when the startup I was working at couldn't make payroll. I'd never really worried about it because I was technically adept and working in a field with a lot of opportunities. I still spent close to 3 months bleeding money without any way to really make any. When you've got a good position, like it sounds like you do, it can be really easy to overplay your hand. Don't count opportunities that aren't in writing or about to become that way.
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Dec 8, 2014 18:59
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Pieces posted:Thank you! I took your advice into consideration when drafting an email to my HR department to ask for more. I requested a single dollar figure and stated the reasoning behind the points. Just as a follow up to this - the company stated they made a fair offer and told me to take it or leave it. I decided it wasn't worth following up with something from a lawyer and just took it.
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Dec 8, 2014 20:31
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This thread has really helped me in my recent trials and tribulations. Still, I want to make sure I am acting as professional as possible so I must ask: If a company is asking me who their competition is, am I obligated to tell them? They have heard I have other offers, but how do I ensure they take them seriously? To be clear, there are other offers.
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Dec 10, 2014 04:41
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Boot and Rally posted:This thread has really helped me in my recent trials and tribulations. Still, I want to make sure I am acting as professional as possible so I must ask: If a company is asking me who their competition is, am I obligated to tell them? They have heard I have other offers, but how do I ensure they take them seriously? You have exactly zero obligation to disclose competing offers to a company.
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Dec 10, 2014 11:09
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I would in fact NOT disclose who you have an offer from. The offer number (or its relative position) and your feelings about it should be sufficient if you want to leverage the offer.
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Dec 10, 2014 14:12
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I wouldn't tell them. We all know how business works; someone in your company goes to the same church/is related/drinks beers on saturday with someone from the other company and they'll chat to figure out what the offer amount is and then come in just shy of it so you have to pick if you want to move companies or not.
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Dec 10, 2014 14:21
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Boot and Rally posted:This thread has really helped me in my recent trials and tribulations. Still, I want to make sure I am acting as professional as possible so I must ask: If a company is asking me who their competition is, am I obligated to tell them? They have heard I have other offers, but how do I ensure they take them seriously? You're not obligated to tell them, and they're not obligated to give you an offer. If you like your other offers, then disclose the existence of the ones you like and the total compensation. Put this potential employer into a bidding war for your talents. If you don't like them, don't talk about them and negotiate with this employer for what you want. Telling them the other offer benefits you by creating competitive pressure and demonstrating your market value. Do not tell them who the other offer is from, as that info can only benefit them. Specifically, it gives them the opportunity to try and scuttle that offer. If they don't want to believe that you've gotten another offer, or the amount of that offer, that's fine, they can not match it, and you can go to the better offer that really exists.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:23
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How would you go about negotiating a level increase for a job offer? At my previous position, I was a level 2 employee, and the other job offers that I have are at level 2 and level 3. The company that I'm most interested in made me a offer to be a level 1 employee (and is apparently at the max compensation that they can offer a level 1 employee, which is substantially less than the other offers). When I brought up the compensation issue previously, my recruiter said that he could potentially increase my salary but would need special approval. Now that I've seen offers from other companies, I'm not really interested in taking a level demotion given that I wouldn't be eligible for a promotion until October - but if the company brought me in at level 2 (and compensated me appropriately for that level), I would almost certainly take the job. All the job offers are for software engineering positions at tech companies, but most of them are substantially smaller than my first choice company.
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Dec 13, 2014 21:25
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turing_test posted:How would you go about negotiating a level increase for a job offer? That sounds like the bad decision I made going to this consulting firm I'm at. I took a level hit to get the name on my resume and the experience, plus I was told that I would be eligible for, and likely promoted in 6 months. Hilariously enough, based on when I was hired I am not eligible for a compensation increase or a promotion (due to all the bureaucracy and bullshit with a global consulting firm and their "rating/promotion" system) for 20 months after my initial hire date. At least I got 15k in a signing bonus? Anyway, point being I wouldn't take a level decrease with a promise of a potential promotion to your previous company's level from a recruiter. They don't know dick.
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Dec 13, 2014 21:35
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To Vex a Stranger posted:Anyway, point being I wouldn't take a level decrease with a promise of a potential promotion to your previous company's level from a recruiter. They don't know dick. I'm definitely not planning on taking a level demotion - if they won't bring me in at level 2, I'm going to take a different job. Do you have advice on how to communicate this to the recruiter?
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Dec 13, 2014 21:44
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turing_test posted:I'm definitely not planning on taking a level demotion - if they won't bring me in at level 2, I'm going to take a different job. Do you have advice on how to communicate this to the recruiter? While I didn't do this, I would be like "Hey I think you leveled me wrong. I'm currently level 2, these other places want to bring me in at level 2, I like your company, but there's no way I can come in at level 1, what can you do for me?" Worst case they can't give you the level you want, and you don't go there anyway. The reason I didn't do that is because I had a friend at the company saying it was better to come in at the lower level and the higher salary range because when you get promoted, you stay at the same range in the new position. The recruiter also said this, but everything I've heard from the company since then has been the complete opposite. That and I was stupid 
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Dec 13, 2014 21:47
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turing_test posted:I'm definitely not planning on taking a level demotion - if they won't bring me in at level 2, I'm going to take a different job. Do you have advice on how to communicate this to the recruiter? Basically what To Vex said: Since you'd like to work there but for the level / pay, you can be explicit on that. If by email, something like: Dear [contact], Thank you for the offer! I'm very interested in working at [company], however I had a few questions / concerns about your offer that I'd appreciate if you could address before I make my final decision. Probably the most important point is that your offer is for a level 1 role. As you know, I'm currently at level 2 at [currentco]. I have also been in discussions with other companies as I undertake my job search and have recently received competing offers including several which were for level 3 opportunities. Are you in a position to modify your offer to a [level 2 or 3] position? Secondly, and likely related to the above point, your offer is currently not competitive on the basis of compensation. I would be willing to consider your offer assuming the compensation was revised commensurate with the adjusted level. [Any other points, make sure you've covered any issues you have with the offer including 'soft' stuff like benefits / vacay] I'm very excited by the opportunity to work at [company] and look forward to your responses to the above points. Best regards, [You]
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Dec 14, 2014 06:22
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I think you should be far more firm, as you are not willing to go to level 1. Too much soft language. Dear [contact], Thank you for the offer! I'm very interested in working at [company], however I had a few questions / concerns about your offer that I'd appreciate if you could address before I make my final decision. [Any other points, make sure you've covered any issues you have with the offer including 'soft' stuff like benefits / vacay] I'm very excited by the opportunity to work at [company] and look forward to your responses to the above points. Best regards,
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Dec 14, 2014 13:25
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Thanks for the advice, all - I sent an e-mail to my recruiter and will let you know what they say!
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Dec 14, 2014 17:19
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I think you should be far more firm, as you are not willing to go to level 1. Too much soft language. If they're willing to move on seniority (and pay), they'd get the same message from my version as yours, although to be fair I considered writing something closer to your tone. Turing has lots of options and so doesn't need to be hyper-aggressive in trying to get his preferred company to move. Either they do or they don't. If they're not willing to change the job seniority there's nothing a more aggressive tone will do. In any case, they're both forms, and not a definitive 'right' answer - Turing, hopefully you've modified the wording you preferred to fit in with the tone of the discussions that you've had to date.
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Dec 14, 2014 20:19
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Well, I spoke to the recruiter today - he said that their leveling system is different and they typically promote from level 1 to level 2 after 3 years. My previous company (I'm currently unemployed which may or may not be complicating things) basically auto-promoted from level 1 to level 2 after a year, so the recruiter said that they're not comparable and that's why the directors don't want to bring me in at level 2. I'm not sure how much this is just talk, but it seems like it will be challenging to get the level bump. They seem more flexible on compensation and I do really like the company so I might decide to let this one go. It sounds like I was way overpaid in my previous position and I may need to lower my salary standards. I do have an offer pending from a very comparable company, so hopefully that salary will come in higher and I'll at least be able to negotiate total compensation...it's a little rough to negotiate right now because their base + expected bonus + stock is higher than the base at the startups and it's easy to argue that startup equity is worth nothing. I think my best strategy at this point is to wait for the other company to come back with an offer and to ask the first company to match it. All in all, it's not like I'll be underpaid no matter who I go with.
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Dec 15, 2014 19:38
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turing_test posted:Well, I spoke to the recruiter today - he said that their leveling system is different and they typically promote from level 1 to level 2 after 3 years. My previous company (I'm currently unemployed which may or may not be complicating things) basically auto-promoted from level 1 to level 2 after a year, so the recruiter said that they're not comparable and that's why the directors don't want to bring me in at level 2. I'm not sure how much this is just talk, but it seems like it will be challenging to get the level bump. They seem more flexible on compensation and I do really like the company so I might decide to let this one go.
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Dec 15, 2014 23:53
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turing_test posted:Well, I spoke to the recruiter today - he said that their leveling system is different and they typically promote from level 1 to level 2 after 3 years. My previous company (I'm currently unemployed which may or may not be complicating things) basically auto-promoted from level 1 to level 2 after a year, so the recruiter said that they're not comparable and that's why the directors don't want to bring me in at level 2. I'm not sure how much this is just talk, but it seems like it will be challenging to get the level bump. They seem more flexible on compensation and I do really like the company so I might decide to let this one go. You did mention you have two other job offers (at level 2/3), are those both with lower salary as well? If you want that first job, you should inquire (and try to get in writing) how long it would be for a promotion to level 2 if you come in at level 1. I've seen some companies try to pull poo poo where they don't just want x years of experience for a promotion, but x years of experience at the company. Normally I'd tell you to walk away, but given that you're unemployed, it may be worth taking something just to get a job. Do wait for the other offers though.
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Dec 16, 2014 00:02
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Xandu posted:You did mention you have two other job offers (at level 2/3), are those both with lower salary as well? The two offers from startups have base salaries that are ~15% higher than the large company and are offering 0.5% equity in stock options. The large company has a 10% bonus, but I'd miss the first bonus cycle. They're also offering a signing bonus and about $100k in stock vesting over 4 years. When I do all the math, the large company's offer is comparable, I'm just struggling with why I'd give up a position at a startup where I'd be able to learn more and have more impact (and possibly make significantly more money, if all goes well) for basically the same amount of money. In terms of being unemployed...it's only been about a month. I definitely wouldn't take this offer if I didn't think I'd enjoy the work, and there are some significant upsides to going with the large company (lots of paid vacation, great benefits, 401k matching - standard big company stuff). I'd just like to get as much money and career development as possible out of switching jobs.
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Dec 16, 2014 02:10
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Hello all - I'm wondering if anyone can offer any insight into a potential negotiation I may soon be doing. I just finished the second and final round of interviews for a position today and an offer should be put out to the successful candidate within a week or so. I'm feeling pretty optimistic at this point as both interviews went well and I developed a pretty good rapport with those present. I happen to know someone who works for this company and unbeknownst to them, she pulled the internal posting for me, which lists the salary range. The gap is pretty huge - $50-80k. $50k is less than I currently make at my job with a nationally-known retailer and would frankly be insulting; $80k would be an enormous pay raise. I'm concerned that their offer will be much more to the left of what I want it to be and I'm thinking about my counter offer. Some people I've spoken to say that since I know what they have budgeted for the position, I should go for broke and ask for more or less all of it (giving the appropriate justifications for it of course). Others urge caution and say that the company might not like to start someone too close to the end of the range as they'll cap out fairly quickly and I think that causes complications of some boring kind, I don't know. What do you guys think? My instinct is to ask for around $70-75k, that would be a healthy raise while still leaving a little bit of wiggle room at the end of the band. They did ask during the last interview what my salary expectations where - I replied that it was negotiable in what I hoped was a very mysterious voice, and she dutifully noted this down.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:02
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We're in year-end review season at my company, where the steps so far have been for employees to do self-evaluations which are now in the hands of supervisors. I am also leaving for a two-week vacation on Wednesday so I figure I won't have my sit-down review with my boss until I get back. Imagine my surprise when he comes up to me and wants to do my yearly sit-down review tomorrow. Now in addition to finishing packing, I have to figure out tonight how to approach this. I can say with confidence that among my peers (people with the same job title or similar job descriptions) I am the most valuable employee, and also that I am not being paid nearly as much as I deserve for both my background and for the asset I am (but no one at my company makes what they deserve, my employer lumps a lot of our "compensation" into its benefits package, which gets a lot of praise when people see what's in it but I won't go into why I think it's not worth the pay cut for me). Knowing that I have minimal prep time, how do I approach this? When discussing this in another thread one person said to print off my current job description and go through it to show how I'm going above and beyond what it lists, but I'm not sure if I can get a copy of it in time and it may just be part of my review anyway. Part of our self-evaluation was to comment on how much of our goals we completed, and how much we felt we were demonstrating our company's core values, I definitely have examples of those that weren't on my submitted reviews, and people in other departments who would vouch for me (probably going too far with that). Any advice for cramming for a performance review, and to ask for a good raise without coming across like I am now (a condescending dick)? My boss is a decent supervisor at best but he knows and has told me multiple times how much he values the things I accomplish for our department, and we've lost three people this year and only picked up two to replace (and I KNOW those two don't cost nearly as much as the other three) so we have the money for raises. Thoughts?
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Dec 16, 2014 03:03
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sheneedstherapy posted:Hello all - I'm wondering if anyone can offer any insight into a potential negotiation I may soon be doing. If you know they have a budget of $80k for the position, try to get $80k. Have a better justification than "That's what you've budgeted for the position." (Don't mention you know their budget at all.) Knowing the budget for the position basically undermines the motivation for not giving a number first, which is avoiding anchoring the discussion at a price they are happy to pay. You're in a good information asymmetry: you know what their tolerances are, but they don't know what yours are. If you ask for $70k, and they talk you down from it, how far can they talk you down before you get up and walk? If you ask for $85k, and they manage to talk you down into their price range at $80k, now you're getting the top of their range, a big raise, and if you play your cards right, they feel like they're getting a deal. That kind of a gambit requires good information management. If you tell them "I'm looking for $85k, that would be a huge raise for me!" they know you're making less than $85, and will undercut it vigorously in a counter. If you tell them "Based on my skills and experience, I'm looking for about $85k." they still have no clue what you make now, but if you're convincing, they may feel the need to get close to it. Their first reaction will likely be "That's outside the range of what we're looking to hire at." Now you've positioned yourself to appear cooperative: "Well, I do find the position intriguing, so how close can you get? Could we increase my vacation time in exchange for a lower salary?" You're extending an olive branch, you're looking for a mutually beneficial solution. It's much like playing poker, what you know about yourself and your opponent, and what you choose to let them know and when will vastly influence the outcome and their decision making process.
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Dec 16, 2014 15:42
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I've recently been approached by my old bosses who have moved onto a new company, and they basically are offering me a more senior role than what I do now at my current company, with more responsibilities and the like. I know they are keen as I'm one of the better people in my company at the moment and have been told so by everyone from the new guys to the MD. Im basically going to take the new job but want to make sure I'm maximising my salary. However, as it's my old bosses who approached me, they know my current salary so that'll make negotiation harder. Although, since they're keen on me I reckon I could use that to my advantage. What kind of strategy should I go for? I've got an informal chat tomorrow with my old line manager, who is great and would answer any questions honestly, but after Christmas have a more formal meeting with both her and the MD (who also used to be at my company). He's much more of a 'business' person so it's here I need some advice. How you assess my situation?
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Dec 22, 2014 00:30
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I have job offer from a very small company ( < 10 salaried employees) ran by a very distant uncle who I didn't know well until about a year ago when he first broached the topic of me working there. About myself, I'll be separating from the military in June and, based on what he's told me, he would like to hire me shortly thereafter. I've done the informational interview with him where we discuss what I've done in the military and what he does at him company (custom manufacturing and installation of electrical AC drive systems) and what he'd expect from an employee. What wasn't discussed in any great detail was (surprise!) pay. I don't consider him to be very closely related as far as my relatives go. He's on an entirely different part of my extended family. What concerns me most when negotiating pay with him is that I am not sure if I can really ask for the equivalent of my current salary in the military in good conscience considering that I'll be taking an entry level job as a field technician with only limited peripheral experience in the equipment he specializes in manufacturing and selling. Although maximizing pay would be nice, my real goal taking this position is to learn as much about the industry as possible and establish for myself a resume outside of my work in the military. Without going into more detail, what would be the best way to figure out what my realistic pay scale should be and what kind of pitfalls should I be wary of when negotiating for a pay at a position with a very small manufacturing and industrial services company?
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Dec 22, 2014 03:11
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Lady Gaza posted:I've recently been approached by my old bosses who have moved onto a new company, and they basically are offering me a more senior role than what I do now at my current company, with more responsibilities and the like. I know they are keen as I'm one of the better people in my company at the moment and have been told so by everyone from the new guys to the MD. Im basically going to take the new job but want to make sure I'm maximising my salary. Maximizing your salary requires exploiting information asymmetries, which you have very few of in your present situation. Your potential employers know most of the circumstances of your present compensation package as well as your overall level of satisfaction with your present employer. You can bluff about raises you've received in the intervening time between their departure and the present, but you don't have much else to work with. If you want to maximize your salary, you talk to other companies, including ones that your colleagues do not work at, in your field and secure offers from them. This strengthens your position in declining to accept their offer, and puts them under competitive pressure. By approaching you and moving quickly, your potential employers have put you on your heels. You are not in a position with other alternatives to what they offer, and if they start to structure timetables to hurry you into a decision you do not have other immediate opportunities to fall back on other than staying in your present employment. You need to rigorously evaluate how much you need to move on from your current work, how much your potential employers need you, and your willingness to pass on this opportunity. If you can start to relate time and money together into concrete figures, it can help you start to set your own limits and stick to them. If they will pay you your desired number when you first go into meet, then accept on the spot. If they get to 90% of that figure, wait a week, 85%, wait two, etc. If they won't come to your goal income, you tell them that you need to think about it, but be ready to tell them where you'd deal today. While you're "thinking about it" hustle, and start finding other opportunities. This gets you a realistic picture of what you can make, gives you options to go with so you can refuse their offer, and keeps you honest so you don't overplay your hand. The most important points are to understand the game they are playing with you right now and the tools they will reach for to minimize your expense as an employee. They will probably emphasize their need to move quickly. Moving quickly won't help you, it helps them. Remember that they don't have much room to deceive you in either, you both know what you presently make, you both know that you perform well, you both know you likely have reasonably good job security, etc. Force them to entice you away. Underscore your value, you're a known quantity for them. Remember that they approached you and you are probably their first pick. Ultimately your negotiation and consequent salary will come down to how convincingly you can decline their offer, if it is unsatisfactory. Dwight Eisenhower fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 19:22
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Maximizing your salary requires exploiting information asymmetries, which you have very few of in your present situation. Your potential employers know most of the circumstances of your present compensation package as well as your overall level of satisfaction with your present employer. You can bluff about raises you've received in the intervening time between their departure and the present, but you don't have much else to work with. Thanks, that's really useful. I managed to find out how much the company has budgeted for the position I'd be filling, which has helped matters. I did some research and it's what I was expecting based on similar roles and responsibilities in other companies. Based on your advice I'm hoping to get a little more; your comment about me being a known quantity is something I'll definitely use. However if they were to present a final offer to me of the figure they've budgeted, I'd be happy. Thanks again.
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Dec 23, 2014 06:38
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To finally report back - the negotiating didn't go great. I wasn't able to get a substantially better offer from another company to ask my preferred company to match or to negotiate the level bump, but I did get a bit more stock and signing bonus that seemed to mostly be from asking nicely and holding out signing until they sweetened the pot. I accepted the offer this morning and am excited to start my new job on 1/12!
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Dec 24, 2014 00:41
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turing_test posted:To finally report back - the negotiating didn't go great. I wasn't able to get a substantially better offer from another company to ask my preferred company to match or to negotiate the level bump, but I did get a bit more stock and signing bonus that seemed to mostly be from asking nicely and holding out signing until they sweetened the pot.
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Dec 24, 2014 03:31
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swenblack posted:Good job! One of the hardest parts of negotiating is knowing when to stop. It sounds like you did enough legwork to have confidence you got a fair offer. Out of curiosity, how much extra money did you get just by asking niecely? It wasn't substantial - they upped the signing bonus by 50% and gave me around 1/3 more RSUs. I did have competing offers so that was definitely a factor, but they seemed very inflexible on base salary and the bonus percentage. Those seem to be the harder aspects to negotiate anyway (which seems reasonable, given that extra for a signing bonus is a one-time thing but extra in base salary is a permanent thing over the life of the employee).
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Dec 24, 2014 07:11
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turing_test posted:To finally report back - the negotiating didn't go great. I wasn't able to get a substantially better offer from another company to ask my preferred company to match or to negotiate the level bump, but I did get a bit more stock and signing bonus that seemed to mostly be from asking nicely and holding out signing until they sweetened the pot. This is the other side of the coin for negotiating which it sounds like you did well with, not overplaying your hand. Going out and evaluating other opportunities not only gives you leverage for negotiation, but it also gives you pricing data. If you find out that your offer is about the going rate, or superior to other offers, it lets you know that you are in fact doing well. Short of a comprehensive open salary/benefit database, it's the best you're gonna get.
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Dec 24, 2014 18:55
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I'm likely to be entering a negotiation for a new position very shortly, but it's a little unusual in that they've already offered more than I expected. I broke the cardinal rule and provided my current compensation, but I have the benefit of being in a somewhat prestigious position (and being very happy there) and them having initially approached me. I declined to interview on two occasions, but ultimately decided to go in for an interview, and had a very good experience. They've offered what is basically double my current compensation (even knowing what I was getting), and that's an offer that I obviously would be happy accepting. With that said, they still seem eager to please, and I hate to think that I'm leaving money on the table by just accepting the initial offer. But obviously I don't want to overplay my hand, since it's an offer that I'd be thrilled with as-is. Is it worth trying to grab another $5,000 in base salary? How do I reasonably justify that when my true reasoning is just "Well you're giving me so much already, what's an extra $5k?" They proactively offered to see if they could increase my vacation days, since that's one of the benefits of my current position, so they're getting back to me on that without me even having brought it up. So how do I balance "Wow, this is absurd money - when do I start!?" with "Eh, it's just a first offer, there's probably room to grow" when I really have no basis to ask for anything more? It's worth noting that I'm switching from government to private sector, so even if I hadn't provided my compensation, they'd know very well that they were offering more than I could be making as a government employee.
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Dec 24, 2014 21:46
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