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You are investing in fun you hope to have at some point. A model that isn't getting played is not returning on that investment.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:22
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Hollismason posted:Dude, I'm the one arguing that we should not be endlessly bitching about these things and am enthusiastic about like Everything. Maybe you should go back and read what is actually going on. Cause it's like a bunch of posters bitching about getting cool new things and not liking changes. I have read every single word. What's more, I've actually understood them, which I think may be more than I can say for you. I don't know if you're getting a stipend from GW for this or if you're deep in sunken cost or if you just cannot fathom the other side of this argument. I just don't understand how you can see people complaining about the new changes to their editions-old armies (which represent a substantial investment in both time and money), and come up with "but you have this exciting new opportunity to pay even more money to vaguely approximate the army that you already have" as a useful response.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:24
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I still really like railsides. They've proven viable for me, and they look cool. You can return to your argument now.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:24
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I seem to be the only person at my LGS who even buys any of the GW stuff. It's been sitting stagnant there besides for the occasional new shipment, same boxes of stuff for months on end. Naramyth posted:Someone who is enthusiastic about the new release instead of crying about GW going for a money grab/ruining the game/faction/gently caress this I quit? You are a strange person. No, someone who gets condescending and deliberately obtuse whenever someone else is upset.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:27
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Naramyth posted:e:\/\/\/\/ That sounds about right. We have had a few people quit 40k to go complain about other games.\/\/\/ I don't consider those people a loss.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:30
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Naramyth posted:Someone who is enthusiastic about the new release instead of crying about GW going for a money grab/ruining the game/faction/gently caress this I quit? You are a strange person.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:32
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That Necron formation is expensive but actually I think is pretty cool. I may actually buy a Monolith now. Being able to deep strike release troops and then just keep adding bodies back is pretty awesome. Expensive overall but really seems worth it. SRM posted:You can be enthusiastic about new releases without being denser than an anti-tank round. They're completely ignoring everything that's been released. That's being dense and unreasonable. Oh no I have to include actual troops in my army. WTF.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:35
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Hollismason posted:The release isn't even finished. This right here is exactly the problem. Used to be that everything you needed was in one book. Now it's in 7. (Codex, 3 part campaign set, 4 white dwarf issues). Total cost: $220 For rules. Plus $70 in new Tac squad/scout squad models to make yourself CAD compliant. If you can't see this as a problem that people might get upset about, you've got your head screwed on wrong.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:36
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I don't have a problem with people complaining about actual monetary costs, but minor changes that over all improve the game balance is bullshit to complain about. Also, the formations from WD will be released probably on the Black Library. Why you would not want to buy Shield of Baal to me is the question. Also, if your so upset don't buy it it's not like it's impossible to get by other means.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:37
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People should just proxy assault marines for tactical marines. The kind of people who will care are the same people everyone seems to dislike playing.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:37
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Also, kind of neat that the Blood Angels get to make the most use out of that Gunslinger rule. That's pretty boss. I can't wait to see the new Necron Dynasty stuff, that seems really cool. Hoping there's a gently caress you old school we're just anti life death machine Dynasty.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:40
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Hollismason posted:I don't have a problem with people complaining about actual monetary costs, but minor changes that over all improve the game balance is bullshit to complain about. Holy poo poo you are loving broken.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:40
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Hollismason posted:Why you would not want to buy Shield of Baal to me is the question. Also, if your so upset don't buy it it's not like it's impossible to get by other means. Well, I'm focusing on my Dark Eldar, so it's basically got nothing for me. I mean, there are a few missions and scenarios, but I can take my pick from dozens of those, so not having a few specific to *that* campaign isn't even a remarkable loss for me.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:42
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Aren't the assault marines as troops pretty much the main Blood Angel gimmick? Why ruin an army's character for balance instead of rewriting the rules?
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Dec 17, 2014 18:43
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Ghost Hand posted:I don't consider those people a loss. Which is why I said they quit, not that we lost them. 
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Dec 17, 2014 18:43
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I don't think more supplements and poo poo improve game balance. I think it actually makes it more pay to win, surely? Pay to access flat out better rules? Different to buying better models, rules require no effort or input
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Dec 17, 2014 18:46
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This must be what its like for the Blood Angels to watch people fall into the Black Rage.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:48
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SRM posted:You can be enthusiastic about new releases without being denser than an anti-tank round. I love you, SRM
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Dec 17, 2014 18:48
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This is cool Sanguinary Priest w/ Angels Wings Angel's Wrath 10 Vanguard Veterans w/ 10 Assault Marines w/ 2 Meltaguns, Combimelta 10 Assault Marines w/ 2 Meltaguns, Combimelta Reroll Scatter on Deep Strike , the Assault marines don't scatter, 30 ST4 hits possibly in the turn it comes in. koreban posted:Well, I'm focusing on my Dark Eldar, so it's basically got nothing for me. I mean, there are a few missions and scenarios, but I can take my pick from dozens of those, so not having a few specific to *that* campaign isn't even a remarkable loss for me. Yeah, I got Necrons, Chaos Space Marine, and Chaos Daemons up to reasonable point levels. So I've been buying Ebay stuff for Dark Eldar. I'm more of a collector when it comes to armies. I have about a combined 3k of Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons, although that'll change after Christmas when I buy 2 Raptors O_o so expensive and hopefully my friend will sell me his Chaos Daemon stuff so I don't have to borrow it. Dark Eldar are really fun although I want more jetbikes but the only ones on Ebay are those 3rd edition ones that while not terrible are kind of lovely.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:48
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Ignite Memories posted:You are investing in fun you hope to have at some point. A model that isn't getting played is not returning on that investment. But what if you just like the model and never intend to play with it?
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Dec 17, 2014 18:49
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I have some Fantasy stuff because I really like the Fantasy range, but Jesus I cannot see myself buying those new Nurgle models unless we get some rules for 40k for them. So expensive but also so nice.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:51
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koreban posted:Used to be that everything you needed was in one book. Now it's in 7. (Codex, 3 part campaign set, 4 white dwarf issues). Total cost: $220 For rules. This is incredibly misleading. In regards to Shield of Baal: Part 1 only included rules for Tyranid units and formations. Part 2 came with actual models at a very reasonable discount. Part 3 covered the new Imperial and Necron rules. There's no overlap between books 1+3, and the minor rules in the boxed set comes with models that normally retail at more than double the cost of the box. I'm actually genuinely shocked that GW didn't put Tyranid + Imperial + Necron rules in every book. Which race relies on 4 White Dwarf issues for rules? So far all new units printed in WD have been copies of pages either from codexes, from a supplement, and/or later released for free. There was a single issue of formations for the new codex. And that's before taking into account that all the key content of every WD will inevitably be published all over the internet days before release, including in this very thread. You absolutely do not have to buy 7 books for the rules to a single army.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:53
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serious gaylord posted:But what if you just like the model and never intend to play with it? Just ordered Kurze but have no intention of playing 30k (though I now fear that this will ultimately be a gateway drug). Still, I would much prefer it if say, my Warp Talons were actually worth fielding. Or if I could use my Iron Warriors Basilisk without allying in guard. Or if I could use my noise marine terminators as what they were modeled to be.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:54
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Hollismason posted:I have some Fantasy stuff because I really like the Fantasy range, but Jesus I cannot see myself buying those new Nurgle models unless we get some rules for 40k for them. So expensive but also so nice. Use them as Great Unclean Ones? It would just require a Monstrous Creature base and you're good to go.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:55
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serious gaylord posted:But what if you just like the model and never intend to play with it? Then that's perfectly fine? What's your point, that people who don't play the game are GW's ideal customer? Makes sense, that's GW's ideal salesman too! Maybe in another few years the game will reach equilibrium with people who don't play the game selling models to people who don't play the game. Then GW will finally truly be 'just a model company' Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 19:01
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Raphus C posted:People should just proxy assault marines for tactical marines. The kind of people who will care are the same people everyone seems to dislike playing. This. I can get that you might have a problem when you enter a tournament, but your friends aren't going to care about WYSIWYG. And yeah, I get that invalidating entire units is a lovely thing for GW to do. It costs people money and rebalances the game. But this poo poo happens nearly every release, see Orks. Then people get used to the new meta and life goes on. I think a lot of people understand that, aren't surprised, and just want to talk about the new rules and play with their plastic toys. Can we just get to that part already? It seems like you guys aren't even mad at GW anymore; you're mad at forums posters and just want to win some pissing contest on the internet.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:02
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This really does not happen as much as people seem to think in most other games out there today.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:06
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3rd edition codex Ultramarines had 'troops' terminators and you could not bring cool stuff without buying a Techmarine. fuckin money grabbin gw
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Dec 17, 2014 19:11
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Lord Twisted posted:I don't think more supplements and poo poo improve game balance. I think it actually makes it more pay to win, surely? Pay to access flat out better rules? Different to buying better models, rules require no effort or input
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Dec 17, 2014 19:13
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xtothez posted:This is incredibly misleading... I'll apologize as someone who's not invested in any of the armies that made appearances in this release, but it's getting difficult to keep track of what is releasing with each part of this process. I estimated based on the scope of the release, and while I appear to have included one extra campaign book and 1-2 extra white dwarf issues (regardless of future no-cost re-release), the intention from GW is that people now buy multiple codices plus magazines or campaign box sets to get the summary rules for their army.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:14
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It's to early to build armies but the Necron formation and the Detachment look promising. I'm straight up expecting a big nerf to come down on the barge lord. He'll probably lose Mindshackle Scarabs, and the Warscythe maybe will go to unwieldy. It's cool that they're putting in the Dynasties which is interesting as it makes them kind of similar to Eldar and Dark Eldar their mortal enemies. It'd be loving killer to have a Campaign that was Eldar v. Necrons. koreban posted:I'll apologize as someone who's not invested in any of the armies that made appearances in this release, but it's getting difficult to keep track of what is releasing with each part of this process. I estimated based on the scope of the release, and while I appear to have included one extra campaign book and 1-2 extra white dwarf issues (regardless of future no-cost re-release), the intention from GW is that people now buy multiple codices plus magazines or campaign box sets to get the summary rules for their army. White Dwarf 189
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Dec 17, 2014 19:17
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SRM posted:They don't improve game balance, they just make it really hard to keep track of everything. I don't think they are pay to win, per se. They do provide benefits for taking this specific formation, but they're kind of rigid and have their own sort of restrictions and required units, not too dissimilar in a way from the FOC. Some of them are kinda no-brainers from what I can tell, unfortunately, but I don't think they're largely game breaking or anything. It's cheesy and lovely when people bring the Space Marine flyer one into their Tyranid list or whatever, but like I've said, shitlords will be shitlords. It just feels like 2nd and a good part of 3rd edition, where there was so much material spread out over so many things that trying to keep track of it all feels exhausting.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:19
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The Black Library publishing the new formations and units for free download is pretty sweet. Sorry I just don't have a problem with the books because I use a IPAd. Of course also edit the ebooks to my own liking format wise so I don't have to scroll through pictures.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:22
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Been thinking about my experience with 40 and I actually don't think the game is in as bad of shape as I've said in the past. Sure, there are some major imbalances in the game, but most of those need to be sought out by the players and intentionally abused. Most games played at my FLGS are normal CAD lists and the battles are usually close. Of course, we have some players who try to make the strongest, most broken and death star style lists, but they're in the minority. (I admit I've been guilty of this myself, what with my 8 flying MC list.) Tournaments are of course a whole different animal. It would be great if the GTs could agree on a set errata and FAQ (and many do, using the adepticon rules.) But as a whole, I think 40k is still a fun game and I'm gonna keep playing it.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:23
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I've been super busy the last few months and haven't had time to do any painting or get any games in. Then I picked up a Hydra kit and spent an hour assembling it, and I forgot how relaxing it is. And then I discovered that my local game store has a land of misfit minis bin, and I picked up this guy for $6.  I don't care if he's not a GW model. I already swapped the pistol for a bolt pistol anyway. He's going to be the Commissar of Funk. It makes me happy.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:34
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Also it's a bit weird to complain about the price of 'complete' Blood Angel rules because I paid 34.99 for the iBook of the 7e codex (I think that's the same price as what I paid for the 5e one) and it contains the complete rules for fielding a Blood Angel army, same as the 5e book. I suppose if you're some weirdo completionist and feel the need to own every book that contains rules mention of a Blood Angel it could get sort of weird but people trotting out this weird 200 dollar number are ignoring the fact you can spend just as much on the previous book and get the same amount of rules. Everything else is entirely extraneous and optional and doesn't make any sense to act like you need to buy them for any reason beyond one you're making up.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:35
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Squifferific posted:I don't care if he's not a GW model. I already swapped the pistol for a bolt pistol anyway. He's going to be the Commissar of Funk. It makes me happy. Sorry bro, you can't have fun with a non-GW model. Nice try. 
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Dec 17, 2014 19:36
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PierreTheMime posted:Sorry bro, you can't have fun with a non-GW model. Nice try. I can have fun with any men I want when it's in the privacy of my own home. Yeah.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:43
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Squifferific posted:I've been super busy the last few months and haven't had time to do any painting or get any games in. Then I picked up a Hydra kit and spent an hour assembling it, and I forgot how relaxing it is. And then I discovered that my local game store has a land of misfit minis bin, and I picked up this guy for $6. Clearly he should be the Inquisitor of Funk 
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Dec 17, 2014 19:46
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Slimnoid posted:Clearly he should be the Inquisitor of Funk Well, sure. Someone's got to root out the traitorous Renegades of Funk.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:49
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