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Mr. Wiggles posted:Because when they are, as in oyokodon, the results are so good that we have to be careful how often we indulge. Oh lord yes, donburi of just about all variations is some good poo poo. My old gym was next to a place that used to make the best I've ever had, but last time I went back they'd lost their knack. I mean it wasn't bad, but it wasn't up to the old standards either.
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Dec 17, 2014 23:11
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The Diggers were a group of Protestant English agrarian socialists,[1][2] begun by Gerrard Winstanley as True Levellers in 1649, who became known as Diggers, because of their attempts to farm on common land. Their original name came from their belief in economic equality based upon a specific passage in the Book of Acts.[3][4] The Diggers tried (by "leveling" real property) to reform the existing social order with an agrarian lifestyle based on their ideas for the creation of small egalitarian rural communities. They were one of a number of nonconformist dissenting groups that emerged around this time. Historical backgroundEdit The year 1649 was a time of great social unrest in England. The Parliamentarians had won the First English Civil War but failed to negotiate a constitutional settlement with the defeated King Charles I. When members of Parliament and the Grandees in the New Model Army were faced with Charles' perceived duplicity, they tried and executed him. Government through the King's Privy Council was replaced with a new body called the Council of State, which due to fundamental disagreements within a weakened Parliament was dominated by the Army. Many people were active in politics, suggesting alternative forms of government to replace the old order. Royalists wished to place King Charles II on the throne; men like Oliver Cromwell wished to govern with a plutocratic Parliament voted in by an electorate based on property, similar to that which was enfranchised before the civil war; agitators called Levellers, influenced by the writings of John Lilburne, wanted parliamentary government based on an electorate of every male head of a household; Fifth Monarchy Men advocated a theocracy; and the Diggers, led by Gerrard Winstanley, advocated a more radical solution. TheoryEdit In 1649 Gerrard Winstanley and 14 others published a pamphlet[2] in which they called themselves the "True Levellers" to distinguish their ideas from those of the Levellers. Once they put their idea into practice and started to cultivate common land, both opponents and supporters began to call them "Diggers". The Diggers' beliefs were informed by Winstanley's writings which envisioned an ecological interrelationship between humans and nature, acknowledging the inherent connections between people and their surroundings.[citation needed] Winstanley declared that "true freedom lies where a man receives his nourishment and preservation, and that is in the use of the earth".[5] An undercurrent of political thought which has run through English society for many generations and resurfaced from time to time (for example, in the Peasants' Revolt in 1381) was present in some of the political factions of the 17th century, including those who formed the Diggers. It involved the common belief that England had become subjugated by the "Norman Yoke". This legend offered an explanation that at one time a golden Era had existed in England before the Norman Conquest in 1066. From the Conquest on, the Diggers argued, the "common people of England" had been robbed of their birthrights and exploited by a foreign ruling-class. PracticeEdit St George's Hill, Weybridge, Surrey The Council of State received a letter in April 1649 reporting that several individuals had begun to plant vegetables in common land on St George's Hill, Weybridge near Cobham, Surrey at a time when food prices reached an all-time high. Sanders reported that they had invited "all to come in and help them, and promise them meat, drink, and clothes." They intended to pull down all enclosures and cause the local populace to come and work with them. They claimed that their number would be several thousand within ten days. "It is feared they have some design in hand." In the same month, the Diggers issued their most famous pamphlet and manifesto, called "The True Levellers Standard Advanced".[2] At the behest of the local landowners, the commander of the New Model Army, Sir Thomas Fairfax, duly arrived with his troops and interviewed Winstanley and another prominent member of the Diggers, William Everard. Everard suspected that the Diggers were in serious trouble and soon left the group. Fairfax, meanwhile, having concluded that Diggers were doing no harm, advised the local landowners to use the courts. Winstanley remained and continued to write about the treatment they received. The harassment from the Lord of the Manor, Francis Drake (not the famous Francis Drake, who had died more than 50 years before), was both deliberate and systematic: he organised gangs in an attack on the Diggers, including numerous beatings and an arson attack on one of the communal houses. Following a court case, in which the Diggers were forbidden to speak in their own defence, they were found guilty of being Ranters, a radical sect associated with liberal sexuality (though in fact Winstanley had reprimanded Ranter Laurence Clarkson for his sexual practices).[6][7] Having lost the court case, if they had not left the land, then the army could have been used to enforce the law and evict them; so they abandoned Saint George's Hill in August 1649, much to the relief of the local freeholders. Little Heath near Cobham Some of the evicted Diggers moved a short distance to Little Heath in Surrey. 11 acres (4.5 ha) were cultivated, six houses built, winter crops harvested, and several pamphlets published. After initially expressing some sympathy for them, the local lord of the manor of Cobham, Parson John Platt, became their chief enemy. He used his power to stop local people helping them and he organised attacks on the Diggers and their property. By April 1650, Platt and other local landowners succeeded in driving the Diggers from Little Heath. Wellingborough, Northamptonshire There was another community of Diggers close to Wellingborough in Northamptonshire. In 1650, the community published a declaration which started: A Declaration of the Grounds and Reasons why we the Poor Inhabitants of the Town of Wellingborrow, in the County of Northampton, have begun and give consent to dig up, manure and sow Corn upon the Common, and waste ground, called Bareshanke belonging to the Inhabitants of Wellinborrow, by those that have Subscribed and hundreds more that give Consent....[8] This colony was probably founded as a result of contact with the Surrey Diggers. In late March 1650, four emissaries from the Surrey colony were arrested in Buckinghamshire bearing a letter signed by the Surrey Diggers including Gerrard Winstanley and Robert Coster inciting people to start Digger colonies and to provide money for the Surrey Diggers. According to the newspaper A Perfect Diurnall the emissaries had travelled a circuit through the counties of Surrey, Middlesex, Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Berkshire, Huntingdonshire and Northamptonshire before being apprehended.[9] On April 15, 1650, the Council of State ordered Mr Pentlow, a justice of the peace for Northamptonshire to proceed against 'the Levellers in those parts' and to have them tried at the next Quarter Session.[10] The Iver Diggers recorded that, nine of the Wellingborough Diggers were arrested and imprisoned in Northampton jail and although no charges could be proved against them the justice refused to release them. Captain William Thompson, the leader of the failed "Banbury mutiny," was killed in a skirmish close to the community by soldiers loyal to Oliver Cromwell in May 1649. Iver, Buckinghamshire Another colony of Diggers connected to the Surrey and Wellingborough colony was set up in Iver, Buckinghamshire about 14 miles (23 km) from the Surrey Diggers colony at St George's Hill (see Keith Thomas, 'Another Digger Broadside' Past and Present No.42, (1969) pp. 57–68). The Iver Diggers "Declaration of the grounds and Reasons, why we the poor Inhabitants of the Parrish of Iver in Buckinghamshire ..."[11] revealed that there were further Digger colonies in Barnet in Hertfordshire, Enfield in Middlesex, Dunstable in Bedfordshire, Bosworth in Gloucestershire and a further colony in Nottinghamshire. It also revealed that after the failure of the Surrey colony, the Diggers had left their children to be cared for by parish funds. InfluenceEdit The San Francisco Diggers Main article: Diggers (theater) During the middle and late 1960s, the San Francisco Diggers (who took their name from the original English Diggers) opened stores which simply gave away their stock; provided free food, medical care, transport and temporary housing; they also organized free music concerts and works of political art. Some of their happenings included the Death of Money Parade, Intersection Game, Invisible Circus, and Death of Hippie/Birth of Free. The Diggers were a radical community-action group of community activists and Improv actors operating from 1966–68, based in the Haight-Ashbury neighborhood of San Francisco. Their politics were such that they have sometimes been categorized as "left-wing". More precisely, they were "community anarchists" who blended a desire for freedom with a consciousness of the community in which they lived. They were closely associated with and shared a number of members with a guerilla theater group named the San Francisco Mime Troupe. Like the original English Diggers, they envisioned a society free from private property, and all forms of buying and selling. Actor Peter Coyote was a founding member of the Diggers. Other The American Diggers were echoed in the 1960s in the UK (see Alternative Society and Sid Rawle). Since the revival of anarchism in the British anti-roads movement, the Diggers have been celebrated as precursors of land squatting and communalism. In 2011, an annual festival began in Wigan to celebrate the Diggers. In 2012, the second annual festival proved a great success, and in Wellingborough, a festival has also been held annually since 2011.[citation needed] WritingsEdit [1] Many archive resources are available at the Diggers.org site about both the English and San Francisco diggers. 1600s Truth Lifting up its Head above Scandals (1649, Dedication dated October 16, 1648), Gerrard Winstanley The New Law Of Righteousness (January 26, 1649), Gerrard Winstanley The True Levellers Standard A D V A N C E D: or, The State of Community opened, and Presented to the Sons of Men William Everard, John Palmer, John South, John Courton. William Taylor, Christopher Clifford, John Barker. Gerrard Winstanley, Richard Goodgroome, Thomas Starre, William Hoggrill, Robert Sawyer, Thomas Eder, Henry Bickerstaffe, John Taylor, &c. (April 20, 1649) A DECLARATION FROM THE Poor oppressed People OF ENGLAND, DIRECTED To all that call themselves, or are called Lords of Manors, through this NATION... Gerrard Winstanley, John Coulton, John Palmer, Thomas Star ,Samuel Webb, John Hayman, Thomas Edcer, William Hogrill, Daniel Weeden, Richard Wheeler, Nathaniel Yates, William Clifford, John Harrison, Thomas Hayden, James Hall. James Manley, Thomas Barnard, John South, Robert Sayer, Christopher Clifford, John Beechee, William Coomes, Christopher Boncher, Richard Taylor, Urian Worthington, Nathaniel Holcombe, Giles Childe (senior), John Webb, Thomas Yarwel, William Bonnington. John Ash, Ralph Ayer, John Pra, John Wilkinson, Anthony Spire, Thomas East, Allen Brown, Edward Parret, Richard Gray, John Mordy, John Bachilor, William Childe, William Hatham, Edward Wicher, William Tench.(June 1, 1649). A LETTER TO The Lord Fairfax, AND His Councell of War, WITH Divers Questions to the Lawyers, and Ministers: Proving it an undeniable Equity, That the common People ought to dig, plow, plant and dwell upon the Commons, with-out hiring them, or paying Rent to any. On the behalf of those who have begun to dig upon George-Hill in Surrey. Gerrard Winstanly (June 9, 1649) A Declaration of The bloudie and unchristian acting of William Star and John Taylor of Walton (June 22, 1649), Gerrard Winstanley An Appeal To the House of Commons; desiring their answer: whether the common-people shall have the quiet enjoyment of the commons and waste land; ... (July 11, 1649), Gerrard Winstanley, John Barker, and Thomas Star A Watch-Word to the City of London, and the Armie (August 26, 1649), Gerrard Winstanley To His Excellency the Lord Fairfax and the Counsell of Warre the Brotherly Request of those that are called Diggers sheweth (December 1649), John Heyman, An. Wrenn, Hen. Barton, Jon Coulton (in the behalf of others called the Diggers), Robert Cosler, John Plamer, Jacob Heard (in The Clarke Papers volume 2, [1894]) To My Lord Generall and his Councell of Warr (December 8, 1649), Gerrard Winstanley (in The Clarke Papers volume 2, [1894]) The Diggers Song (circa 1649,1650) (in The Clarke Papers volume 2, [1894]), attributed to Gerrard Winstanley by the historian C. H. Firth, the editor of The Clarke Papers. The Declaration and Standard Of the Levellers of England, delivered in a speech to His Excellency the Lord Gen. Fairfax, on Friday last at White-Hall ..., William Everard Several Pieces gathered into one volume (1650, Preface dated December 20, 1649), A second edition of five of Gerrard Winstanley's works printed for Giles Calvert, the printer for nearly all the Diggers writings.[12] A New-yeers Gift FOR THE PARLIAMENT AND ARMIE: SHEWING, What the KINGLY Power is; And that the CAUSE of those They call DIGGERS (January 1, 1650), Gerrard Winstanley Englands Spirit Unfoulded or an incouragement to take the Engagement ... (Ca. February or March, 1650), Jerrard [sic] Winstanley. A Vindication of Those Whose Endeavors is Only to Make the Earth a Common Treasury, Called Diggers (March 4, 1650), Gerrard Winstanley Fire in the Bush (March 19, 1650), Gerrard Winstanley An appeale to all Englishmen, to judge between bondage and freedome, sent from those that began to digge upon George Hill in Surrey; but now are carrying on, that publick work upon the little heath in the parish of Cobham..., (March 26, 1650), Jerard [sic] Winstanley [and 24 others] A Letter taken at Wellingborough (March, 1650), probably written by Gerrard Winstanley.[13] An Humble Request, to the Ministers of both Universities, and to all Lawyers in every Inns-a-court (April 9, 1650), Gerrard Winstanley Letter to Lady Eleanor Davies (December 4, 1650), Gerrard Winstanley The Law Of Freedom in a Platform, or True Magistracy Restored (1652), Gerrard Winstanley 1960s-70s Ringolevio Emmet Grogan Broadgate Gnome (mag) 67 -71 Truro Diggers (Cell magazine) 77-81 International Times Influence on literature and popular cultureEdit In 1966 a faction of the San Francisco Mime Troupe formed a Diggers group in the hippie community in the Haight-Ashbury district of San Francisco. A strongly anti-establishment group, they handed out free food in Golden Gate Park[14] "The World Turned Upside Down" by Leon Rosselson, 1975, a song about the Diggers and their activities on St. George's Hill in 1649; this song was performed by Billy Bragg on his Between the Wars EP, 1985; by Dick Gaughan on Handful of Earth, 1981; by Chumbawumba on the b-side of their single "Timebomb," 1993; by Four to the Bar on Another Son in 1995; by Attila the Stockbroker with Barnstormer on The Siege of Shoreham, 1996;by Oysterband on their albums Shouting End of life and Alive and Shouting, 1995 and 1996;by Clandestine, a Houston-based Celtic group, on their To Anybody At All album, 1999; by the Fagans, an Australian folk group, on their album, Turning Fine, 2002; and by Seattle Celt-rock band Coventry on the album Red Hair and Black Leather, 2005. Winstanley, a fictionalized 1975 film portrait of the Diggers, directed by Kevin Brownlow, was based upon the novel Comrade Jacob by David Caute. Rev Hammer's Freeborn John (The Story of John Lilburne—The Leader of the Levellers) (Cooking Vinyl CD, London, 1997), is a recent example of confusion between the Levellers and True Levellers. As Meat Loves Salt by Maria McCann, Harcourt, 2001 (ISBN 0-15-601226-X) deals in part with the founding and destruction of a fictional Digger colony at Page Common near London. Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy is strongly influenced by Winstanley's writings, including the idea of the Republic of Heaven. Caryl Churchill's 1976 play Light Shining in Buckinghamshire, named after the Digger pamphlet and set in the English Civil War, charts the rise and fall of the Diggers and other radical ideas from the 1640s. Jonathon Kemp's 2010 play The Digger's Daughter tells the tale of the Diggers and quotes much of Winstanley's teaching directly. FootnotesEdit Campbell 2009, p. 129. E.g. "That we may work in righteousness, and lay the Foundation of making the Earth a Common Treasury for All, both Rich and Poor, That every one that is born in the Land, may be fed by the Earth his Mother that brought him forth, according to the Reason that rules in the Creation. Not Inclosing any part into any particular hand, but all as one man, working together, and feeding together as Sons of one Father, members of one Family; not one Lording over another, but all looking upon each other, as equals in the Creation;" in The True Levellers Standard A D V A N C E D: or, The State of Community opened, and Presented to the Sons of Men Acts 4:32, Today's English Version: "The group of believers was one in mind and heart. No one said that any of his belongings was his own, but they all shared with one another everything they had." The "The True Levellers Standard A D V A N C E D" specifically mentions Acts 4.32 Grant, Neil. Hamlyn Children's History of Britain: From the Stone Age to the Present Day, 2nd Rev edition (Dean, 1992), p.144 Laurence 1980, p. 57. Vann 1965, p. 133. A Declaration by the Diggers of Wellingborough – 1650 Keith Thomas, 'Another Digger Broadside' Past and Present No.42, (1969) pp. 57–6.) Calendar of State Papers, Domestic, 1650 (London, 1876) p. 106. A Declaration of the Grounds and Reasons (Iver) from Hopton, Andrew, ed. Digger Tracts, 1649–50. London: Aporia, 1989. (transcribed by Clifford Stetner) Loewenstein, David (2001). Representing revolution in Milton and his contemporaries: religion, politics, and polemics in radical Puritanism (illustrated ed.). Cambridge University Press. p. 315. ISBN 0-521-77032-7. Winstanley, Gerrard (2009). The complete works of Gerrard Winstanley 2. Oxford University Press. p. 430. ISBN 0-19-957606-8. Miles, Barry (2003). Hippie. Sterling Press. p. 106. ISBN 1-4027-1442-4. ReferencesEdit Campbell, Heather M, ed. (2009). The Britannica Guide to Political Science and Social Movements That Changed the Modern World. The Rosen Publishing Group, 2009. pp. 127–129. ISBN 1-61530-062-7. Laurence, Ann (February 1980). "Two Ranter Poems". The Review of English Studies (New Series ed.) 31 (121): 56–59 [57]. doi:10.1093/res/xxxi.121.56. Vann, Richard T. (January–March 1965). "The Later Life of Gerrard Winstanley". Journal of the History of Ideas 26 (1): 133–136. doi:10.2307/2708404. JSTOR 2708404. Further readingEdit Books Berens, Lewis Henry. The Digger Movement in the Days of the Commonwealth at Project Gutenberg Hill, Christopher (1972). "Levellers and True Levellers". The World Turned Upside Down: Radical Ideas During the English Revolution. London: Temple Smith. ISBN 0-85117-025-0. Petegorsky, David W. (1995) [1940]. Left-wing Democracy in the English Civil War: Gerrard Winstanley and the Digger Movement. Stroud: Alan Sutton. ISBN 0-7509-1053-4. Johannes Agnoli. Subversive Theorie (Subversive Theory) Kennedy, Geoff (2008). Diggers, Leveller and Agrarian Capitalism : Radical Political Thought in Seventeenth Century England. United States: Lexington Books. Articles Bernstein, Eduard. Chapter IX: The "True" Levellers and Their Practical Communism from Cromwell and Communism Fox, Jim. 1642–52: Levellers and Diggers in the English Revolution, website libcom.org, from Revolutions Per Minute Staff at Elmbridge Museum. Surrey Diggers Trail, facsimile at The Diggers Heritage Project Staff. The English Diggers (1649–50), Digger Archives Staff. English Dissenters: Diggers, ExLibris Staff. An index page: Diggers, Ranters and other radical Puritans at Street Corner Society Read in another language Wikipedia ® MobileDesktop Content is available under CC BY-SA 3.0 unless otherwise noted. Terms of UsePrivacy
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Dec 17, 2014 23:36
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Kyrie eleison posted:I guess I don't need eternal life anymore and can die and go to the dirt forever and never feel or experience anything again. Thanks. As a Presbyterian I think its extremely funny you feel entitled by your faith in Jesus to salvation. God does not ask for your faith and devotion, he either wills it or he does not. You sound like a textbook non-select.
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Dec 17, 2014 23:53
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Jimlit posted:As a Presbyterian I think its extremely funny you feel entitled by your faith in Jesus to salvation. God does not ask for your faith and devotion, he either wills it or he does not.  Calvinism is simultaneously the best and worst fit for American capitalistic religion. It's no wonder it's still going strong here.
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Dec 18, 2014 00:21
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Jimlit posted:As a Presbyterian I think its extremely funny you feel entitled by your faith in Jesus to salvation. God does not ask for your faith and devotion, he either wills it or he does not.
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Dec 18, 2014 00:23
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Nessus posted:Kyrie actually seems to agree, since God already knows the outcome of whether or not we will become good Catholics or instead be perfidious Jews and other assorted heathens. No, Catholics believe that we choose for ourselves whether we accept salvation. God does not predestine it for us. That would be silly: we wouldn't have free will if God chose it.
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Dec 18, 2014 00:31
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Jimlit posted:As a Presbyterian I think its extremely funny you feel entitled by your faith in Jesus to salvation. God does not ask for your faith and devotion, he either wills it or he does not. Presbyterians have as much apostolic authority as Krusty the Clown 
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Dec 18, 2014 00:33
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blowfish posted:kyrie leison is the warden from Shawshank Redemption Kyrie eleison is the road that I must travel Kyrie eleison, through the darkness of the night
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Dec 18, 2014 00:33
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Kyrie eleison posted:Presbyterians have as much apostolic authority as Krusty the Clown http://www.lettersofnote.com/2009/10/krusty-clown-is-god.html
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Dec 18, 2014 00:36
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Cavaradossi posted:No, Catholics believe that we choose for ourselves whether we accept salvation. God does not predestine it for us. That would be silly: we wouldn't have free will if God chose it. Like this doesn't seem to have been resolved at any point, and seems to suggest God created huge numbers of people purely for the sake of their suffering. To paraphrase Darwin about this, looking at the parasitic wasps, we can see how such a Creator could be, but he hardly seems to be good and loving.
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Dec 18, 2014 00:40
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So Vatican II was wrong?
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Dec 18, 2014 00:46
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VitalSigns posted:So Vatican II was wrong? Hardcore right-wing Catholics like Kyrie hate Vatican II
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Dec 18, 2014 00:48
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Cavaradossi posted:No, Catholics believe that we choose for ourselves whether we accept salvation. God does not predestine it for us. That would be silly: we wouldn't have free will if God chose it. I've noted it before, but, Catholics observe that the Bible supports both predestination and personal choice, and thereby come to the conclusion that both are true. A Protestant tripped over a Bible and when it landed upturned to a specific page that supported one view, they decided to ignore all of the others. Also they don't get baptized because evidently that's not necessary for salvation anymore despite it being said a million times in the Bible that it is!! (John 3:5, Mark 16:16) I guess they just love taking chances!
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Dec 18, 2014 00:54
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What's with the obsession with eternal life? Why would someone want to be eternal? That sounds like torture after long enough time. I know I'd like to end, and that life is more meaningful when it ends.
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Dec 18, 2014 00:55
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Kyrie eleison posted:Also they don't get baptized because evidently that's not necessary for salvation anymore despite it being said a million times in the Bible that it is!! (John 3:5, Mark 16:16) I guess they just love taking chances! Boy I guess it sure is lucky that thief on the cross beside Jesus was baptized at some point or otherwise Jesus would either be lying when he said that the thief would join him in paradise, or it would be proof that baptism isn't necessary for salvation! I mean, the Bible totally never says he was baptized, but he obviously must have been.
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Dec 18, 2014 00:56
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Wasn't Vatican II like, fifty years ago?Panzeh posted:What's with the obsession with eternal life? Why would someone want to be eternal? That sounds like torture after long enough time. I know I'd like to end, and that life is more meaningful when it ends. Dying is scary I guess?
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Dec 18, 2014 00:59
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Kyrie eleison posted:I've noted it before, but, Catholics observe that the Bible supports both predestination and personal choice, and thereby come to the conclusion that both are true.chances! CCC 600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of "predestination", he includes in it each person's free response to his grace:
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Dec 18, 2014 01:02
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Nessus posted:But God knows how you're going to choose, right? So in a sense the outcome is already known. Since that outcome was already known by God at the creation of the Universe, if you do not choose for salvation, and God does not give everyone a ride through Purgatory, that means God created intelligent beings who were destined only to suffer eternally (unless your conception of Hell is not literal eternal suffering). Only because they chose to reject grace.
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Dec 18, 2014 01:03
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Kyrie eleison posted:Also they don't get baptized because evidently that's not necessary for salvation anymore despite it being said a million times in the Bible that it is!! (John 3:5, Mark 16:16) I guess they just love taking chances! The thief on the cross in Luke didn't get baptized so it doesn't seem like it's as important as all that. I mean, not in the sense that you physically need magic water dripped on you. Jesus said He came to baptize us in the Holy Spirit which is probz a bit more important than some H2O. e: fb that's what I get for not reading! Twelve by Pies posted:but he obviously must have been. Well it's not like the Catholic Church isn't above blatantly making poo poo up to fit some political agenda of theirs, like oh if we don't baptize you you go to hell no matter how good you are, or sex is bad see Jesus' brothers were like totally from Joseph's unmentioned first wife and were there all along but no one bothered to say anything about it or note the astonishing fact that a married woman remained a lifelong virgin. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Dec 18, 2014 |
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Dec 18, 2014 01:04
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Yeah it was but the more conservative and traditionalist Catholics loving hate Vatican II because it says Muslims are totally cool and have a lot good about them and the Church should work together with them, it states Jews are not responsible for the death of Jesus any more than non-Jews are, and it supported religious liberty and said the Church should not try to establish itself as the state religion and suppress non-Catholic faiths if the country is majority Catholic. You can see why Kyrie and others like him would think Vatican II is terrible and don't want to acknowledge it.
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Dec 18, 2014 01:04
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Kyrie are you a sedavacantist? It sounds like it from your positions, but then again you also love Pope Benedict and his totally dope wide tassles and bling and self-aggrandizement that Jesus loved so much about the Pharisees.
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Dec 18, 2014 01:08
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Twelve by Pies posted:Hardcore right-wing Catholics like Kyrie hate Vatican II I love Vatican II, it's an infallible council and those who reject it are crazy conspiracy theorists. I do subscribe to an awesome sedevacantist Youtube channel though and recently they posted an informative video about Sandy Hook crisis actors. Anyway Vatican II did not change any doctrines. All we did was add some theological wiggle room so the hellbound would stop whining
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Dec 18, 2014 01:12
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Kyrie eleison posted:I've noted it before, but, Catholics observe that the Bible supports both predestination and personal choice, and thereby come to the conclusion that both are true. You and all other Catholics who believe this are wrong.
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Dec 18, 2014 01:14
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Kyrie eleison posted:I love Vatican II, it's an infallible council and those who reject it are crazy conspiracy theorists. I do subscribe to an awesome sedevacantist Youtube channel though and recently they posted an informative video about Sandy Hook crisis actors. BTW you still haven't explained why hell is a bad thing.
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Dec 18, 2014 01:19
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Kyrie eleison posted:Anyway Vatican II did not change any doctrines. All we did was add some theological wiggle room so the hellbound would stop whining Waitwaitwait, this is possibly more interesting than your take on Jesus' gently caress-the-poor teachings in the Gospels. What exactly are you saying here, because it sounds like your interpretation of Vatican II is not that it was a genuine statement of ecumenicism and the universal love of God for mankind, but rather a cynical ploy to get the hellbound Methodists, Jews, Muslims etc to shut up and wallow in their heresy until the day the good Catholics get to gleefully watch them all burn.
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Dec 18, 2014 01:20
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Kyrie eleison posted:Also they don't get baptized because evidently that's not necessary for salvation anymore despite it being said a million times in the Bible that it is!! (John 3:5, Mark 16:16) I guess they just love taking chances! The Bible says a lot of things on how to get salvation. I like the part in Matthew 25, 31-46 where it says yo only those who help the poor, sick, homeless and hungry get salvation, those who don't can go to hell. You're gonna burn is what I'm saying. Also Jesus teaches us to love our enemy, but you're not particularly loving to the people in here, what's the deal with that.
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Dec 18, 2014 01:21
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Cavaradossi posted:CCC 600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of "predestination", he includes in it each person's free response to his grace: You keep coming back to the seemingly paradoxical belief that God both created the entirety of the universe (within which we made a choice in a sequence of events that God specifically created) and gave us free will to choose or not to choose. Do you subscribe to some form of Christian multi-worlds theory where God created every possible future and we, by our choices, decide in which one we find ourselves? That would make your claims make so much more sense if that were representative of your beliefs.
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Dec 18, 2014 01:44
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Kyrie eleison posted:I love Vatican II, it's an infallible council and those who reject it are crazy conspiracy theorists. I do subscribe to an awesome sedevacantist Youtube channel though and recently they posted an informative video about Sandy Hook crisis actors. Was the information "they don't exist"?
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Dec 18, 2014 01:46
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blowfish posted:kyrie leison is the warden from Shawshank Redemption Put your trust in the lord, your rear end belongs to me -Kyrie back when he was a filthy sinner
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Dec 18, 2014 01:47
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Panzeh posted:What's with the obsession with eternal life? Why would someone want to be eternal? That sounds like torture after long enough time. I know I'd like to end, and that life is more meaningful when it ends. OwlFancier posted:Dying is scary I guess? Kyrie eleison posted:Thanks. That's really inspiring. I guess I don't need eternal life anymore and can die and go to the dirt forever and never feel or experience anything again. Thanks. I will admit, that's part of why I still believe in universalism (and reincarnation). Now if I'm wrong, there won't be a "me" anymore to care that I was wrong, so win-win. I have applied Logic to Faith, and universalism+reincarnation is the (terribly heretical) result I came up with. 
fade5 fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Dec 18, 2014 |
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Dec 18, 2014 01:48
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a cartoon duck posted:Also Jesus teaches us to love our enemy, but you're not particularly loving to the people in here, what's the deal with that. The person you're addressing invoked God's genocide of innocents to defend being hateful to strangers on an internet forum while simultaneously expressing joy that they will be tortured for eternity. Seriously you guys are wasting your time even engaging him.
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Dec 18, 2014 01:49
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Hey OP, what would you think about removing the catholic church's tax exemptions and requiring them to adhere to appropriate financial regulations and reporting requirements?
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Dec 18, 2014 01:52
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My Imaginary GF posted:Hey OP, what would you think about removing the catholic church's tax exemptions and requiring them to adhere to appropriate financial regulations and reporting requirements? Get thee behind me satan and poz my neg hole.
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Dec 18, 2014 01:55
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My Imaginary GF posted:Hey OP, what would you think about removing the catholic church's tax exemptions and requiring them to adhere to appropriate financial regulations and reporting requirements? Agreed but for all churches. In fact, they should be taxed more stringently.
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Dec 18, 2014 01:59
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Panzeh posted:Agreed but for all churches. In fact, they should be taxed more stringently. I can't think of any other church which issues passports to pedophiles as a matter of official policy. Literally The Worst posted:Get thee behind me satan and poz my neg hole. Other churches aren't a sovreign tax shelter with their own, standing armed forces. The Holy See is. Ask yourself, what would Napoleon do, versus what would Hitler do? Clearly, the answer is to side with Napoleon and not act like Hitler towards the Catholic church.
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Dec 18, 2014 02:04
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Kyrie eleison posted:I love Vatican II, it's an infallible council and those who reject it are crazy conspiracy theorists. I do subscribe to an awesome sedevacantist Youtube channel though and recently they posted an informative video about Sandy Hook crisis actors. I can no longer tell if you're the most dedicated troll since TobleroneTriangular, or if you're really as much of a crackpot as you appear. So, if it's the former, congratulations.
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Dec 18, 2014 02:04
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My Imaginary GF posted:I can't think of any other church which issues passports to pedophiles as a matter of official policy. In fact, I would go so far as to say you're not really an American if you have loyalty to the Holy See any more than if you had loyalty to Israel. It's treasonous thought, and has to be stamped out.
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Dec 18, 2014 02:07
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Panzeh posted:In fact, I would go so far as to say you're not really an American if you have loyalty to the Holy See any more than if you had loyalty to Israel. It's treasonous thought, and has to be stamped out. 
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Dec 18, 2014 02:13
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Kyrie eleison posted:Presbyterians have as much apostolic authority as Krusty the Clown So....we formed an apostolic authority committee that was supposed to work this stuff out, but got totally side tracked by Krispy Kreme doughnuts and coffee that Brenda bought. Long story short nothing got done, but who gives a poo poo cause its like a fifty fifty crap shoot we're saved anyway and there was coffee.
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Dec 18, 2014 02:28
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Technogeek posted:I can no longer tell if you're the most dedicated troll since TobleroneTriangular, or if you're really as much of a crackpot as you appear. So, if it's the former, congratulations. He's not as entertaining as TT though. He's a collection of other people's craziness not his own brand entirely.
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Dec 18, 2014 02:40
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