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Hauldren Collider posted:Final thought: I thought Korra and Asami had a great dynamic as *friends*. The gay lovers thing reaaaalllly cheapens that. I honestly think that them just being friends is a whole lot more interesting and satisfying. We definitely need more close female friendships in media! However, the reason we don't see enough of them isn't a glut of same-sex relationships. It's the fact that like 90% of everything is about men.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:38
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Hauldren Collider posted:FYI, the part of the Avatar finale I hated most was the part where Aang kisses Katara. Annoyed the gently caress out of me. I think I may just hate love stories.... Yeah, that's honestly a reasonable thought. I disagree with this one being dime-a-dozen if only because holy crap actual same-sex rep on Nick, but I'm also the kind to usually groan when all stories end with The Big Kiss. Hell, I wanted to cheer when Pacific Rim avoided that one.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:39
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I'm annoyed at lesbians.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:39
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So if they don't put more obvious hints there it's "illogical" and putting hints of the romance means they're "pandering to a bunch of perverts?" Am I reading this correctly?
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Dec 19, 2014 20:40
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Hauldren Collider posted:FYI, the part of the Avatar finale I hated most was the part where Aang kisses Katara. Annoyed the gently caress out of me. I think I may just hate love stories.... It was completely predictable, but I don't see that as a reason to hate it. If everything has to be surprising and unpredictable, we would end up with random monkeycheese.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:40
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That was a good ending and Korrasami was cool. It also really came out of nowhere, so it circumstantially appears that Bryan and Mike may have been using it as a "gently caress You" to Nick, or to get a rise out of the fandom.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:41
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People who say things like 'korrasami' are disgusting subhumans & I would volunteer to work in the concentration camps.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:42
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Jaramin posted:That was a good ending and Korrasami was cool. It also really came out of nowhere, so it circumstantially appears that Bryan and Mike may have been using it as a "gently caress You" to Nick, or to get a rise out of the fandom. Considering the posts by one of the storyboard artists who said that the handholding scene at the very end was not on the original storyboards and must have been added post production, that's almost certainly the case. They snuck in a pretty obvious lesbian romance right before the final credit roll as a final middle finger to Nick. And my god was it glorious. 
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Dec 19, 2014 20:46
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http://imgur.com/xWg5JPR ...And someone already edited in a kiss. Honestly I like it better without them kissing though. Somehow that's MORE romantic, not less.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:46
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Sydin posted:Considering the posts by one of the storyboard artists who said that the handholding scene at the very end was not on the original storyboards and must have been added post production, that's almost certainly the case. They snuck in a pretty obvious lesbian romance right before the final credit roll as a final middle finger to Nick. And my god was it glorious. Yeah, they aren't going to get another Avatar sequel so decided to go out with a high note and giving the bird.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:49
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The only thing that annoys me about the Korra and Asami relationship is how they barely interacted for half the series, and then were best friends by the start of season 3 because... they just were.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:49
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Rosalind posted:http://imgur.com/xWg5JPR It's funny because I would be less annoyed with the ending if this happened. Where people see romance, I see the plausible explanation of two close friends comforting each other, or Korra specifically comforting Asami after losing her father. But I hate lesbians I guess. Hugs/hand holding is a sign of closeness, not necessarily a relationship. Considering neither of them had shown any interest in women for the entire series, I'm going to remain skeptical. Akumos fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Dec 19, 2014 |
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Dec 19, 2014 20:50
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That wasn't hand holding. That was hand clasping. Very important, but subtle, distinction there.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:54
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NutritiousSnack posted:Are people actually mad at this ending? Nah I enjoyed it. I was just irked by the fanservice at the end.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:54
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Sydin posted:Considering the posts by one of the storyboard artists who said that the handholding scene at the very end was not on the original storyboards and must have been added post production, that's almost certainly the case. They snuck in a pretty obvious lesbian romance right before the final credit roll as a final middle finger to Nick. And my god was it glorious. I'd feel a lot better about it if this turns out to actually be the real reason, but I would still prefer it be absent. Epic middle finger to Nick though, gotta say. Does anyone else picture Nick taking it out in one of the reruns and generating a huuuuge storm of criticism from lesbian/gay groups?
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Dec 19, 2014 20:55
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Hauldren Collider posted:Nah I enjoyed it. I was just irked by the fanservice at the end. What do you think fanservice means? I really don't see how it was even close to fanservice.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:55
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thexerox123 posted:What do you think fanservice means? I really don't see how it was even close to fanservice. It makes strangers I will never meet on tumblr happy.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:57
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Hauldren Collider posted:I'd feel a lot better about it if this turns out to actually be the real reason, but I would still prefer it be absent. Epic middle finger to Nick though, gotta say. So a same sex couple in the show would be good only if it was used as an attempt to gently caress over Nickelodeon?
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Dec 19, 2014 20:57
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 also http://imgur.com/a/OzBa3 Akumos fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Dec 19, 2014 |
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Dec 19, 2014 20:58
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Superstring posted:It makes strangers I will never meet on tumblr happy. I sincerely think that humanity has a solemn duty to make tumblr users sad.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:58
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Akumos posted:It's funny because I would be less annoyed with the ending if this happened. Where people see romance, I see the plausible explanation of two close friends comforting each other, or Korra specifically comforting Asami after losing her father. But I hate lesbians I guess. Hugs/hand holding is a sign of closeness, not necessarily a relationship. Considering neither of them had shown any interest in women for the entire series, I'm going to remain skeptical. Yeah, honestly, you appear to be stretching really, really, really hard and ignoring the framing of the shot. As I pointed out above, a literal 10 year old saw that scene and saw it as romantic, so this isn't a case of wild random tumblr bullshit running wild.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:00
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Yeah I don't get how this it was ambiguous at all that the scene was meant to be romantic. If that had been Korra and Mako, or any other male/female pair, nobody would be here arguing that they're ~*Just Friends*~.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:02
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, honestly, you appear to be stretching really, really, really hard and ignoring the framing of the shot. As I pointed out above, a literal 10 year old saw that scene and saw it as romantic, so this isn't a case of wild random tumblr bullshit running wild. I dunno, is it really stretching? Asami was just crying to Korra about losing her father. They wanted to go on a vacation to wind down from all of the emotional stress. I see no reason Korra couldn't just be comforting Asami, and in some way, Asami comforting Korra that it was over and they could go relax. Would Asami really go from sadness to wanting to swoon over Korra so quickly anyway? Seriously, who loses a parent and 5 minutes later jumps into a relationship all happy?
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Dec 19, 2014 21:03
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Jaramin posted:That was a good ending and Korrasami was cool. It also really came out of nowhere, so it circumstantially appears that Bryan and Mike may have been using it as a "gently caress You" to Nick, or to get a rise out of the fandom. I wouldn't say it came out of nowhere, but yeah I agree. I'm far too cynical to think Korrasami arose organically and I think it was a calculated move by the show creators to pander to the fandom and ensure the show ended on a high and a wave of hype. But gently caress it, if that's what it takes to get more representative characters in fiction that's fine with me.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:03
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Akumos posted:I dunno, is it really stretching? Asami was just crying to Korra about losing her father. They wanted to go on a vacation to wind down from all of the emotional stress. I see no reason Korra couldn't just be comforting Asami, and in some way, Asami comforting Korra that it was over and they could go relax. You must be really bad at picking up signals.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:04
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Akumos posted:I dunno, is it really stretching? Asami was just crying to Korra about losing her father. They wanted to go on a vacation to wind down from all of the emotional stress. I see no reason Korra couldn't just be comforting Asami, and in some way, Asami comforting Korra that it was over and they could go relax. Because the framing of the shot, from the delayed hand holding to the final shot of them clasping hands and looking into each other's eyes, was framed exactly using cinematic techniques reserved almost exclusively for romance. If this was a shot between a male and female character it wouldn't even be up for debate. Akumos posted:Seriously, who loses a parent and 5 minutes later jumps into a relationship all happy? A tremendous number of fictional characters in books, movies, and television shows? "A tragic parent death scene followed by new love blossoming" is a pretty drat common movie trope.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:04
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Hauldren Collider posted:FYI, the part of the Avatar finale I hated most was the part where Aang kisses Katara. Annoyed the gently caress out of me. I think I may just hate love stories.... In general, it has to be the weakest point of Diko's writing. Almost every relationship - with the exception of Varrick and Zhu Li - was forced and the dialogue was terrible. And even that one they managed to gently caress up pretty hard with the proposal scene. They would occasionally stumble onto something good - like Zuko and Katara, who were both older than Aang at an age when a few years really did matter and had actual chemistry - they couldn't use it because of plot. What makes Korra and Asami work is that it's not actually an on-screen relationship. It's just sort of, "Oh, all the men we wrote (or were forced to write in by Nick) were terrible for Korra, and she's great with Asami, so let's go with that."
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Dec 19, 2014 21:05
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I really liked that turn of events but I would have liked it had they more scenes together. I don't think it came out of no where but it could have used some more growth over the season.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:08
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I mean, I have to be honest, it does just seem like something thrown in at the end to make the LGBT community happy. I saw someones flair on a avatar sub "LGBT representation gently caress Yeah! Today, we made history!" and people in here have been saying similar. It's kind of awkward when two characters who have never shown any romantic interest in women or each other suddenly are the focus of the finale romantically, but I guess in some ways it makes sense after all they've gone through. I think I'd have liked it better if they were closer on screen more throughout the show. It felt more like random agenda pushing than a natural conclusion? For the entire series I considered Korrasami some stupid hentai fandom because it had no basis in reality until today.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:08
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In It For The Tank posted:I wouldn't say it came out of nowhere, but yeah I agree. I'm far too cynical to think Korrasami arose organically and I think it was a calculated move by the show creators to pander to the fandom and ensure the show ended on a high and a wave of hype. But gently caress it, if that's what it takes to get more representative characters in fiction that's fine with me. Pretty much. It can be a royal "gently caress you" to nick, a solid step in depicting an LGBT relationship in children's media, and an actually enjoyable plot development all at the same time. Honestly, some of the brilliance of the ending scene was that it was all these things. And yeah, it didn't come out of nowhere. They've been dropping subtle (and not so subtle) hints all through seasons 3 and 4, to the point that this very thread was arguing back and forth fairly regularly about whether it was shipperbait or just good friends interacting. I fully admit to thinking it was the latter, just because I did not believe they could actually pull a lesbian romance off in a children's cartoon without being beaten to death by the censorship board. They did though, and my hat's loving off to them. 
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Dec 19, 2014 21:09
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dj_clawson posted:In general, it has to be the weakest point of Diko's writing. Almost every relationship - with the exception of Varrick and Zhu Li - was forced and the dialogue was terrible. And even that one they managed to gently caress up pretty hard with the proposal scene. They would occasionally stumble onto something good - like Zuko and Katara, who were both older than Aang at an age when a few years really did matter and had actual chemistry - they couldn't use it because of plot. What makes Korra and Asami work is that it's not actually an on-screen relationship. It's just sort of, "Oh, all the men we wrote (or were forced to write in by Nick) were terrible for Korra, and she's great with Asami, so let's go with that." So it's great because everything happens offscreen, and it gets hammered in at the end so that the hero can have a love interest but--plot twist--she's gay! Yeah actually I remember thinking, wait, I thought Katara liked Zuko? What's this Aang crap? I really expected Avatar to end with Katara and Zuko hooking up, though I never cared much I later told by a friend of the existence of the whole "Zutara" cult on the internet related to this, which horrified and continues to horrify me.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:10
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Where the hell did any of you get the idea Katara liked Zuko in that way? Holy gently caress.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:11
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dj_clawson posted:They would occasionally stumble onto something good - like Zuko and Katara, who were both older than Aang at an age when a few years really did matter and had actual chemistry - they couldn't use it because of plot. 
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Dec 19, 2014 21:11
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Where the hell did any of you get the idea Katara liked Zuko in that way? Holy gently caress. I just assumed it'd be a really easy twist to avoid making the ending 100% super duper sugary happy for all parties involved while still being a happy ending, and Katara and Zuko in the cave or whatever in S2 and fighting Azula in S3 seemed to show them having a lot of chemistry. I just kind of assumed that was how it would play out, and when it didn't happen that way, I was surprised.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:12
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Where the hell did any of you get the idea Katara liked Zuko in that way? Holy gently caress. quote:Zuko and Katara, who were both older than Aang at an age when a few years really did matter and had actual chemistry
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Dec 19, 2014 21:13
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drat it I wanted to be the one to post that!   OK so, I dunno, as a lesbian maybe I'm a bit biased but I don't think the ending scene was really worth getting one's panties in a knot. Korra and Asami go off to the spirit world together with vague implication that their friendship might become something more romantic. It's probably as overtly gay as censorship will allow for something on Nickelodeon, but it's not like it's that distasteful as friendship or otherwise. It's also not like they showered the scene with lilies and clam shells and tacos. Come on folks. The "debate" is also distracting from one of the better, more explicit romantic parts of the episode:  They did the thing. 
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Dec 19, 2014 21:19
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Where the hell did any of you get the idea Katara liked Zuko in that way? Holy gently caress. Let me preface this by saying Zutara is and always will be dumb as hell, and there was no real subtext that things would develop that way at all. Having said that, from a literary perspective they were a good pair of foils, and that lends itself to a lot of people reading in romantic subtext where there isn't any. They also had a moment in the crystal cave at the end of season two, and a few episodes where they partnered up to do poo poo (finding the guy who killed Katara's mom, fighting Azula, etc) in season 3. Again, Zutara is loving dumb and was never ever going to happen, but there was material there for people to latch on to. There have been far stupider ships with far less material to work with that have gained more traction. Just sayin'.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:20
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I have to say that I would have goddamn hated the Varrick and Zhu-Li romance if not for the part where Zhu-Li told him to shut up and start treating her as an equal and partner instead of an assistant. That really helped get over the uncomfortably creepy elements of their relationship.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:27
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ImpAtom posted:That really helped get over the uncomfortably creepy uhh Can you elaborate on what you mean by this please?
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Dec 19, 2014 21:29
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"Zhu-Li, do the thing!" "I'm afraid there are no more things to do..." That was pretty funny.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:30
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