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Giant Isopod posted:I never understood this viewpoint. It is almost assured that the car on the lot isn't stolen, somewhat less so for the one some guy on Craigslist has listed.
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Dec 19, 2014 23:20
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I'm dreading the day when my car dies and the $17,000 I bought it for in 2010 would barely get me a rust box in 202X.
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Dec 19, 2014 23:26
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beepo posted:I've been looking at getting a new car and the price between brand new and 2-3 years old is so little I can't really justify not just paying the slight premium and buying new. Sure I might save like $1,500 but I would be getting a used car with 70,000+km on it. Maybe the previous owner was a lovely driver and put a lot of wear on the car or had an unreported accident. The old belief that driving the car off the lot depreciates it significantly is definitely not true in Canada for cheaper cars. Plus safety standards/features advance with every generation. New cars offer better crash safety standards and are starting to include crash-avoidance technologies previously found in the luxury models. Different people prioritize different things. Bad with money is buying more car than you can afford. That car could be new, slightly used, or an old beater that needs a ton of money in repairs.
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Dec 19, 2014 23:45
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marchantia posted:This was also true where I am in Wisconsin. The dealership used market was laughable for the last three model years or so, and as far as private dealers went, there weren't a ton out there and the price difference wasn't big enough to make it worth the uncertain maintenence/driving/accident record, for me anyway.
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Dec 20, 2014 00:07
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beepo posted:I've been looking at getting a new car and the price between brand new and 2-3 years old is so little I can't really justify not just paying the slight premium and buying new. Sure I might save like $1,500 but I would be getting a used car with 70,000+km on it. Maybe the previous owner was a lovely driver and put a lot of wear on the car or had an unreported accident. The old belief that driving the car off the lot depreciates it significantly is definitely not true in Canada for cheaper cars. From what I understand, between Cash for Clunkers, the economic downturn, and a general growing cultural awareness in the US that a car payment doesn't have to be a fact of life, the immediate depreciation hit of a new car isn't quite what it used to be ten+ years ago. Long term, if such a thing were possible (is it?) I would definitely short car makers in the US; Millenials definitely give far less of a poo poo about owning a car than previous generations, it has been a source of much wailing and gnashing of teeth in Ford/GM boardrooms. Not that the US's poor infrastructure for mass transit/biking is going to go away overnight, but I'd put good money that car ownership as a percentage of the population will be in slow decline for years to come. Giant Isopod posted:I never understood this viewpoint. Not really, no. There are certainly bad used car dealerships, and they do have to turn a profit, but much of their stock comes from auction purchases (former lease/fleet vehicles, or trade-ins that the original dealership didn't want to deal with the hassle of selling), which are *substantially* cheaper than what you can buy on the street and are unavailable to people without a dealer's license. At least here in Florida, bidders only get to know if the car is rated "green" (running with no known issues), "yellow" (running with some issues), or "red" (not running/as-is), there is likely to be some value-added stuff going on as the dealership makes sure it's good to sell (tires, brakes, fluids, etc). Smaller operations might have some saved searches on Craigslist for something that comes up under value. Basically, being in the used car business doesn't mean you have to screw customers to turn a profit, in comparison to the average person a dealer has access to cheaper stock, is likely better at spotting good deals to flip for a profit, and can realise economies of scale with tools/repair facilities. Additionally, the small guys know that they live and die by word-of-mouth, it behooves a good used car dealer to maintain a good reputation. That jackoff from Craigslist you meet in a gas station parking lot? What the hell does he care, once he has your money? With this said, I haven't bought a car from a dealer before, but that doesn't mean I never would. Just do your homework, ask people for recommendations, and look stuff up online. I was looking at a private sale about an hour and a half away from me last year, so I used Google reviews to find a mechanic in the area to look it over. I was extremely satisfied with the experience even though I ultimately wound up passing on the car. Pompous Rhombus fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Dec 20, 2014 |
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Dec 20, 2014 00:23
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EgonSpengler posted:Plus safety standards/features advance with every generation. New cars offer better crash safety standards and are starting to include crash-avoidance technologies previously found in the luxury models. Different people prioritize different things. This is what buying new gets you. Old cars will murder you in a small overlap. 2014 Toyota Corolla small overlap IIHS crash test: http://youtu.be/9AnNSfVds9M
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Dec 20, 2014 00:51
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Stolennosferatu posted:This is what buying new gets you. Old cars will murder you in a small overlap. Not making sure you head on the drunk driver who veers over the middle lane divide is bad with money.
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Dec 20, 2014 01:21
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I was bad at buying cars. My husband got a huge deal on buying a previous model year car, so when my old car racked up the last massive repair bill we were willing to pay I went to the dealership looking to buy a previous year Mazda3 hatchback... not knowing that the new model year was the first year that they had the Skyactive engines with drastically better gas mileage. The salesman probably did an internal jig of glee when I said I wanted a previous model year and never once pitched me on the new ones. Probably my only saving grace in that whole mess was that I qualified for the 0% APR easily. Oh well, it's going to be paid off in the next few months and I'm going to drive it until it won't go anymore. My mother seems to think I need a bigger vehicle because of the kids, but their car seats are only going to get smaller and they fit fine now, so no thanks.
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Dec 20, 2014 01:50
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Lyz posted:I was bad at buying cars. My husband got a huge deal on buying a previous model year car, so when my old car racked up the last massive repair bill we were willing to pay I went to the dealership looking to buy a previous year Mazda3 hatchback... not knowing that the new model year was the first year that they had the Skyactive engines with drastically better gas mileage. The salesman probably did an internal jig of glee when I said I wanted a previous model year and never once pitched me on the new ones. Probably my only saving grace in that whole mess was that I qualified for the 0% APR easily. Most of the people talking about how little car you really need probably didn't need to fit two rear-facing car seats into their cars at any point. Kids start out needing a pile of safety equipment and stuff to transport in a car, and it scales down over time. When my kids were both under two, we ended up needing a minivan. Now that they are older, a compact wagon is enough space.
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Dec 20, 2014 01:55
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First model year vehicles tend to be more problematic as they haven't discovered all the flaws in the new systems. Your last model year car may well be the more reliable choice. Compared with my in-laws, everyone in this thread is bad with money. When they lived in Macau they carted around a family of four on a Honda scooter. MrKatharsis fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Dec 20, 2014 |
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Dec 20, 2014 01:57
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Ag42gMGK9WrwdDlkdUM2NEhudW42MkNfWDhJYmhFSVE&f=true&noheader=false&gid=0 Click over to the "roster" tab.
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Dec 20, 2014 02:01
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EgonSpengler posted:Most of the people talking about how little car you really need probably didn't need to fit two rear-facing car seats into their cars at any point. Kids start out needing a pile of safety equipment and stuff to transport in a car, and it scales down over time. When my kids were both under two, we ended up needing a minivan. Now that they are older, a compact wagon is enough space. Since it was just me driving the kids around most of the time, the big rear-facing convertible car seat went behind the passenger seat and anyone who sat there was just going to be uncomfortable. The infant bucket seat went behind the driver's seat and I ended up being the only one who could drive my car. When my daughter graduated up to the covertible seat my son switched to front facing out of necessity at just shy of three years old. It wasn't ideal but we made it work, given we really only drove together as a family on weekends. For longer trips we would just move the whole setup to my husband's car which had a couple inches more to spare. And I did extensive research to find a tandem stroller that would fit in the hatchback. I'll admit the thought of a minivan does kind of appeal to me but it's not a neccessity and I'm really looking forward to not having a car payment anymore.
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Dec 20, 2014 02:05
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Lyz posted:I'll admit the thought of a minivan does kind of appeal to me but it's not a neccessity and I'm really looking forward to not having a car payment anymore. The van I used to have in Japan was awesome, I wish you could get it elsewhere:  (actual picture of my van)   (stock interior pics) It had a 1.3L engine, so fuel economy was excellent. Could also fit 6-7 passengers, or a tonne of cargo with the easily folded down seats. The roof rack came in handy a few times, like taking four people and three road bikes on a trip across the island. Miss the hell out of that thing (a Daihatsu Atrai-7, for the curious). Crash ratings probably not the best since it's based off a kei platform, but since my other car was a motorcycle 
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Dec 20, 2014 02:43
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Crash ratings probably not the best since it's based off a kei platform, but since my other car was a motorcycle You were that guy who rides around dressed like Batman, weren't you?
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Dec 20, 2014 03:13
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Pompous Rhombus posted:The van I used to have in Japan was awesome, I wish you could get it elsewhere: That thing is so cute. I wish they had them in Canada.
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Dec 20, 2014 03:21
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I have a coworker who has taken over all financial responsibilities for her grandmother's house without putting anything in her name. I think the plan is for the grandmother (who is in a nursing home now) to leave the house to my coworker, but who knows how long that will be? I can see now way that anything could go wrong here.
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Dec 20, 2014 03:58
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MickeyFinn posted:You were that guy who rides around dressed like Batman, weren't you? I think that's someone else... I always ride fully geared up (I spent about as much on protective gear as I did on my bike), but it's pretty standard stuff. C... posted:That thing is so cute. I wish they had them in Canada. They're so practical... I think you can get Atrai-7's grey market in a few places (like New Zealand) that allow such things, don't think it'll be an option for me though. edit: was googling and I think Canada also allows grey market imports? The US sorta does, but unless you want to subject it to extremely expensive crash-testing and stuff, you have to wait until it's 25 years old. Kei cars are really cool and very BFC, but a piddly top speed (100-110kph is pretty much wringing one out, at least the non-turbos) and more lax crash standards means they're pretty much confined to the Japanese domestic market. The government has recently been making noise about removing some of the tax incentives for owning them, people speculate it actually may come from the automakers themselves, since I don't think the margin on kei cars is as high as it is for normal sized ones. Here's a cool mini-doco (~30 minutes) on them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlDtIdNx2Rc. I was trying to find an article I read a while back but couldn't turn it up, but basically kei cars make car ownership a reality for a lot of lower-income, rural people who need them and use them for essential daily stuff/running a small business.
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Dec 20, 2014 04:18
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Giant Isopod posted:I never understood this viewpoint. Does this make 2 or 3 full pages of carchat? HelloIAmYourHeart posted:I have a coworker who has taken over all financial responsibilities for her grandmother's house without putting anything in her name. I think the plan is for the grandmother (who is in a nursing home now) to leave the house to my coworker, but who knows how long that will be? I can see now way that anything could go wrong here.
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Dec 20, 2014 06:41
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SiGmA_X posted:Your point is fully valid here. Car dealerships are awesomely good at screwing people. And then convincing people the issues are OK! The first dealership said their cars are given a 30-point inspection. The next one claimed a "50-point inspection". The one after that? A "60-point inspection". And in the end it's just a "safety" inspection. It doesn't take much for a car to be deemed "safe". They'll slap the cheapest tires they can find onto it, along with the cheapest brake pads and rotors. Don't even get me started on the ridiculous warranties they tried selling me (but the other car shoppers were more than happy to take them up on their generous offers, from what I had overheard). Vent over. Sorry. melon cat fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Dec 20, 2014 |
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Dec 20, 2014 07:11
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Sorry to derail in the car argument thread but someone linked this on my Facebook. It would be amazing if it wasn't bullshit it is. #NotAllGamers
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Dec 20, 2014 08:46
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Re: Car buying chat, aka money vs time. The value of a dollar to a person is not constant, and is based on their current income and expenses. +1 net dollar per day is worth a lot more to someone who currently nets 1 dollar a day (100% increase) than it is to someone netting 100 dollars a day (1% increase). Any amount of dollars made or saved towards matching income to minimum expenses is infinitely more valuable than almost any amount of time, because it means the difference between surviving or not. Once one hits the break point of income exceeding expenses, the time value will drop on all further net dollars earned in relation to current net dollars earned, and it's good and fine to not be willing to spend significant amounts of time for increasingly smaller (% wise) savings. That's not even getting into other factors like lack of interest in mechanical knowledge, overall safety concerns, and available market.
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Dec 20, 2014 10:15
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jon joe posted:Re: Car buying chat, aka money vs time. Great point. That said, what I think this entire threat basically points to is the fact that cars are depreciating assets. Its better to accumulate appreciating assets, like stocks, bonds, or real estate. Avoid driving if you can.
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Dec 20, 2014 17:13
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gvibes posted:That sounds pretty typical. I don't really start see decent supplies of used cars until you get to about three years old, presumably because that's when cats start coming off three year leases en masse. I think for lower end cars like I was looking at, there is just less of a lease market. I have no stats on that, but I feel like someone showing up to lease at a dealer is going to want something a little nicer, or higher end I guess. We definitely looked at the CPO cars back thru 2009 when they stated making fits (I think, pulling that off the top of my head) and there wasn't much. Sorry I keep talking about my lovely car, but you guys keep bringing this thread back to lovely car chat so you brought this upon yourselves.
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Dec 20, 2014 18:42
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melon cat posted:Ain't that the truth. I went used car shopping last winter, then suddenly remembered why I hated it. And they really try to trick people into thinking that the car's in good, working condition "because our Red Seal mechanics here have already checked it out, so no need to get your mechanic to look at it!" When I bought my current car I pulled a CarFax and used a service (looks like it's just local) called Auto. P.I. I told them the VIN/male/model (It was a long time ago) they went out to the dealership and did their own inspection then gave me the report. When I went back to actually buy the car, the salesguy seemed a little hurt that I didn't trust them. No. No I don't. I just happened to come across this service and just kinda thought they were everywhere.
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Dec 20, 2014 21:42
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topenga posted:When I bought my current car I pulled a CarFax and used a service (looks like it's just local) called Auto. P.I. I told them the VIN/male/model (It was a long time ago) they went out to the dealership and did their own inspection then gave me the report. When I went back to actually buy the car, the salesguy seemed a little hurt that I didn't trust them. No. No I don't.
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Dec 20, 2014 21:59
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Man, you guys are obsessed with cars. It's like an American fetish. I pay three times as much for petrol and still only use about 20 euro a fortnight. Is the whole nation driving 24\7?
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Dec 21, 2014 11:31
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adamarama posted:Man, you guys are obsessed with cars. It's like an American fetish. I pay three times as much for petrol and still only use about 20 euro a fortnight. Is the whole nation driving 24\7? Basically, yes. Most people literally can't conduct their daily lives without a vehicle because where they live is unsuited to any other form of transportation. It's amazing how lovely people have it in their lives due to vehicle costs and they don't even realise it's not necessary. I'd also include the unhealthy aspects of living a car dependant lifestyle that take a toll on your body over your lifespan in "vehicle costs". Rick Rickshaw fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 12:39
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adamarama posted:Man, you guys are obsessed with cars. It's like an American fetish. I pay three times as much for petrol and still only use about 20 euro a fortnight. Is the whole nation driving 24\7?
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Dec 21, 2014 13:05
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adamarama posted:Man, you guys are obsessed with cars. It's like an American fetish. I pay three times as much for petrol and still only use about 20 euro a fortnight. Is the whole nation driving 24\7? Europe is a lot more dense than most of the US. Only living in the middle of a couple cities means you can get away with not driving very often. We're considered to live extremely close to my husband's work, and he still drives for his commute because the intersections are all 6 lanes across with no crosswalk. It's just very unfriendly to bikers, and he biked or walked to work his entire life before we moved here. With that said, our car is a Toyota Camery we bought for 7k with 20k miles. edit Forgot to add. Where I'm from, we have to drive to get to a bus station because transit is so sparse. My husband actually drops me off at the local bus hub so I can take the bus to school. Rurutia fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 14:33
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cowofwar posted:Most people live in suburbs with zero transit and there is the predominant attitude that transit is for poors (despite the fact that they are poor). Or, in cases like mine, the local public transit simply doesn't go anywhere near to where you work.
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Dec 21, 2014 14:59
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Rurutia posted:With that said, our car is a Toyota Camery we bought for 7k with 20k miles. 
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Dec 21, 2014 15:04
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quote:there is the predominant attitude that transit is for poors (despite the fact that they are poor). That and people with DUIs.
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Dec 21, 2014 15:12
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To chime in, a lot of business situate themselves in business parks in the middle of nowhere because land is cheap. The local transit agency is probably not running a bus out there, because of a lack of ridership. People live in spaced out suburbs, where you're lucky if there's one bus a day to the nearby city. So, you need a car to actually get to work. My sister in law planned on visiting us, but even though the car trip would take about 45 minutes, taking mass transit would take at least three hours (at one time, four every other) due to the direction being perpendicular to the direction to/from the city, as she would have to ride into the city and then back out to us. Is it any surprise that people would rather drive here? Also, we both live relatively near train stations. If there's no transit links nearby, it gets WAY worse.
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Dec 21, 2014 15:14
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Rick Rickshaw posted:I'd also include the unhealthy aspects of living a car dependant lifestyle that take a toll on your body over your lifespan in "vehicle costs". I miss walking to work but it's not an option anymore  jon joe posted:Re: Car buying chat, aka money vs time. This isn't even specific to car buying chat, it goes for everything in this thread too.
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Dec 21, 2014 15:15
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Volmarias posted:taking mass transit would take at least three hours . . . due to the direction being perpendicular to the direction to/from the city, as she would have to ride into the city and then back out to us. Sounds like that town needs a monorail.
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Dec 21, 2014 15:29
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They probably traded in a Camero to buy it.
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Dec 21, 2014 15:32
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I was phone posting, sue me. :|
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Dec 21, 2014 15:48
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I really like the idea of strong public transit, and I know its "bad with money", but I don't think the convenience of being able to go where I want WHEN I want is a huge draw for me and most Americans. I don't have a vehicle as a status symbol, I have a vehicle because I don't want to be late by 40 minutes instead of 4 if I miss a certain time when the bus comes by. I want to be able to go to get food when/where I want to if the nerve strikes. I feel safer driving my kiddo around in a LATCHed in Carseat than on a bus seat. I am not sure I can really attach a solid dollar amount to that. Sure if fuel costs and other costs made it prohibitive to drive, then obviously that would change.But the entire American culture is centered around the vehicle and has been since they were really invented and mass produced. I like Europe for a lot of things, but not their "tut tut" over Americans and their cars. You literally can't succeed in most American economies without one.
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Dec 21, 2014 16:23
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Your child is significantly less safe in your car tho
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Dec 21, 2014 17:25
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Rurutia posted:I was phone posting, sue me. :| Judge would probably throw it out and then I'd be out my lawyer's fees for no benefit. Bad with money.
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