|
I never joke. I have an Islamist's humour. I am 100% serious in every single post. Always.
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 21:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 20:20 |
|
|
Randler posted:It's sad how idiots blame the rich, who as a group are more beneficial for Germany than the average German, for being a burden on society, while they keep getting robbed by the left. If you have infinite resources and privileges at you disposal, expectations are a little bit higher than from the average German. I don't see how wishing that someone more capable and intelligent would get all these opportunities is a bad thing. There are probably a million people in this world who would be much better at his job and who have read a newspaper in the last 10 years and are not rambling about about Negers, Moslems and bootstraps. But as always, if wishes were horse, beggars would ride.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 21:43
|
|
|
Antwan3K posted:Wow this is the worst series of posts I have ever seen on D&D. waitwhatno posted:If you have infinite resources and privileges at you disposal, expectations are a little bit higher than from the average German. I don't see how wishing that someone more capable and intelligent would get all these opportunities is a bad thing. There are probably a million people in this world who would be much better at his job and who have read a newspaper in the last 10 years and are not rambling about about Negers, Moslems and bootstraps. But as always, if wishes were horse, beggars would ride.  I copied Lucy's previous argument regarding foreigners being more beneficial to society than Germans due to higher contributions to fiscal revenue and replaced the nouns.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 21:47
|
|
|
Badly Jester posted:I pulled that poo poo out of my rear end to make a joke, calm your tits. Racist jokes are racist.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 21:52
|
|
|
niethan posted:Racist jokes are racist. Not to mention, funny.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 21:54
|
|
|
Randler posted:
You changed words so that a true statement became a lie, presumably from the assumption that everything is interchangeable(?). Hence the absurd equivocations between antisemitism and economic justice? Don't really know what you wanted to prove by doing that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 21:59
|
|
|
Antwan3K posted:You changed words so that a true statement became a lie. You mean because rich people people contribute less to fiscal revenue than normal earners, and foreigners contribute more than Germans? Edit: And regarding the part you edited in, please show me where I equivocated antisemitism and economic justice. Y'know, because you brought up the topic of lies and stuff. Randler fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Dec 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:00
|
|
|
Randler posted:You mean because rich people people contribute less to fiscal revenue than normal earners, and foreigners contribute more than Germans? They profit from their position way more than they lose by paying taxes as opposed to the majority of immigrants who do actual work, yes. Randler posted:Edit: And regarding the part you edited in, please show me where I equivocated antisemitism and economic justice. Y'know, because you brought up the topic of lies and stuff. So it was the other guy (Riso). I was referring to the statements I was quoting. Antwan3K fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Dec 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:04
|
|
waitwhatno posted:If you have infinite resources and privileges at you disposal, expectations are a little bit higher than from the average German. I don't see how wishing that someone more capable and intelligent would get all these opportunities is a bad thing. There are probably a million people in this world who would be much better at his job and who have read a newspaper in the last 10 years and are not rambling about about Negers, Moslems and bootstraps. But as always, if wishes were horse, beggars would ride. If you were talking about Susanne Klatten or someone like that I would agree that the fact that they are rich is not due to their own ingenuity but in the case of Winfried Stöcker thats not the case. He escaped the socialist regime in the DDR and started a new life in the free/capitalist BRD, where he built his company from scratch. He is credited with a multitude of inventions, which is why his business now has a yearly revenue of over 100mil euro. My best guess is that he is trolling the people in Görlitz/media with the interview, which incredibly funny You have to understand that he bought an old "Kaufhaus" (think KaDeWe in Görlitz) that the leftist Bildungsbürger loved because it was an historic building and he wanted to open it again, reviving the city yadiyadiya... but now, oh horror, he turns out to be a racist and they can't even accept donations from him. Yes, thats right, a orphan home returned his donation because they could not accept money from such a vile person. Well, that just shows you how stupid the left is, because even the Romans knew "pecunia non olet".
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:12
|
|
|
I merely pointed out how the same rhetoric once used to disparage a small ethnic group is now used to disparage a small group based on their wealth. The overwhelming majority of the much maligned rich people are self-made and worked hard for it, providing services and products people want. By saying stuff like "kill all rich people" one just shows how much of an envious oval office one is, who very much dislikes hard work and lacks both dedication and ambition. The only people that should be really flogged are working in the financial industry because they produce nothing and contribute nothing. Their whole business model is parasitic. Edit: Actually I forgot politicians when I wrote the above but I am sure you get what I mean. Riso fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Dec 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:15
|
|
|
Riso posted:The overwhelming majority of the much maligned rich people are self-made and worked hard for it, providing services and products people want.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:24
|
|
|
Riso posted:I merely pointed out how the same rhetoric once used to disparage a small ethnic group is now used to disparage a small group based on their wealth. No this is actually an extremely disingenuous comparison between a class position and an ethno-religious identity, which is not at all the same thing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:29
|
|
|
niethan posted:Racist jokes are racist. I always suspected that that's why they're called 'racist jokes' and not 'politically correct jokes,' but thanks for clearing that one up for me. Riso posted:By saying stuff like "kill all rich people" one just shows how much of an envious oval office one is, who very much dislikes hard work and lacks both dedication and ambition.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:37
|
|
|
Badly Jester posted:I always suspected that that's why they're called 'racist jokes' and not 'politically correct jokes,' but thanks for clearing that one up for me. Maybe they're just annoyed by the fact that you keep addressing them as leftist intellectuals while making air quotes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:41
|
|
|
Antwan3K posted:You changed words so that a true statement became a lie Riso posted:Proving yet again that the "rich" have replaced the "jews" as the chosen group du jour to hate. E: oh, and regarding what to claim a moral higher ground over: I'd be fine with letting people live here even though they may contribute less than the average German, and I think that's the morally superior position, and while we can and should argue the numbers, I'm very close-minded about the moral side of this.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:42
|
|
|
Antwan3K posted:Maybe they're just annoyed by the fact that you keep addressing them as leftist intellectuals while making air quotes. I think it's some kind of predecessor to the Anglo-Saxon "SJW", which is a term mostly useful in flagging dumb bad wrong people. For once, Germans leading a cultural-linguistic trend!
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:46
|
|
|
Antwan3K posted:Maybe they're just annoyed by the fact that you keep addressing them as leftist intellectuals while making air quotes. I'm neither calling them that, nor am I making air quotes when I talk to them. I'm using quotes here because I'm not quite happy with the term, but couldn't find a better one. Nice dodge, though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:47
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:I thought we had all agreed that, actually considering the evidence, it's certainly not trivially true that people with immigrant backgrounds "contribute more to society than the average German". I read foreigners, as in non-nationals. Since they have more restricted access to the social security system, I can't imagine otherwise. And of course it shouldn't matter, but you should still fight these statements, but I guess you said as much Antwan3K fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Dec 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:47
|
|
|
Antwan3K posted:I read foreigners, as in non-nationals. Since they have more restricted access to the social security system, I can't imagine otherwise. Fun fact: We already dug up the study the news reports claimed made that claim and it turned out the study explicitly said it wasn't true and that foreigners actually contributed 16.4 percent less on average.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:49
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:If you were talking about Susanne Klatten or someone like that I would agree that the fact that they are rich is not due to their own ingenuity but in the case of Winfried Stöcker thats not the case. He escaped the socialist regime in the DDR and started a new life in the free/capitalist BRD, where he built his company from scratch. He is credited with a multitude of inventions, which is why his business now has a yearly revenue of over 100mil euro. That's great, really. But you see, the problem is that he thinks that only he and people with the same skin color as him should even be allowed to do that. He thinks that I should not be allowed to do that. What do you think "Negers should bootstrap themselves into wealth" means? What do you think "Segregated, but equal" means? He doesn't believe in meritocracy, he didn't grow up in a meritocracy and is not the product of one. So lets not get overboard with the praise. GaussianCopula posted:My best guess is that he is trolling the people in Görlitz/media with the interview, which incredibly funny You have to understand that he bought an old "Kaufhaus" (think KaDeWe in Görlitz) that the leftist Bildungsbürger loved because it was an historic building and he wanted to open it again, reviving the city yadiyadiya... but now, oh horror, he turns out to be a racist and they can't even accept donations from him. Yes, thats right, a orphan home returned his donation because they could not accept money from such a vile person. Well, that just shows you how stupid the left is, because even the Romans knew "pecunia non olet". Aehm ... great troll, i guess? Congratulations. Lets get him an account here. Also I don't see the shame in not giving positive publicity to hatemongers. Could have saved a couple of million lives 70 years ago. Riso posted:I merely pointed out how the same rhetoric once used to disparage a small ethnic group is now used to disparage a small group based on their wealth. Hey, guess what: rich peoples honor doesn't need your protection. They have media teams, lawyer, judges and entire political parties. You are technically right, but I'm not gonna lose sleep over the hurt feelings of some rich dude. He doesn't give a poo poo about mine either. I'm not even going to touch that "hard work makes you rich" poo poo with a ten foot pole. Are you twelve?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:50
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:E: oh, and regarding what to claim a moral higher ground over: I'd be fine with letting people live here even though they may contribute less than the average German, and I think that's the morally superior position, and while we can and should argue the numbers, I'm very close-minded about the moral side of this. I agree with what you're saying and didn't explain what I meant very well. The attitude that I'm encountering quite frequently goes something like: "My views are in line with the left, I hate fascism with a passion, so I have no need for nuances, and I can't possibly be wrong about anything." Obviously, this is an exaggeration to illustrate my point, but I hope you get what I mean.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:56
|
|
|
Badly Jester posted:I always suspected that that's why they're called 'racist jokes' and not 'politically correct jokes,' but thanks for clearing that one up for me. Don't be a racist piece of poo poo
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 23:06
|
|
|
niethan posted:Don't be a racist piece of poo poo You really enjoy being redundant, don't you? Also, your criticism is duly noted.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 23:09
|
|
|
Randler posted:Fun fact: We already dug up the study the news reports claimed made that claim and it turned out the study explicitly said it wasn't true and that foreigners actually contributed 16.4 percent less on average. OK, so I looked it up and it is not as clear cut as I thought (and as it is in the UK and most other countries. As a non-German I was not basing myself on any recent news reports). Still you yourself as well as several other posters were disputing the whole thing. I'll drop the point, having no intention to go into the small print of a German language research paper But I will maintain that The Rich (aka industrial and financial capital as well as old money) are definitely more of a net drain on any country. In fact, policies that they wrote more than likely caused parts of the lower contributions (by depressing wages in low-paying sectors)
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 23:34
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:but in the case of Winfried Stöcker thats not the case. He escaped the socialist regime in the DDR and started a new life in the free/capitalist BRD, where he built his company from scratch. Do you have a source you could cite that he's from East Germany? That's what I tried to find out when I googled him, but I couldn't find anything. My thinking was that it'd be extra funny if the guy going "Weihnachten ist Firlefanz" is actually a carpetbagger (  ) from the blackest depths of, say, Swabia.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 00:08
|
|
|
Antwan3K posted:Wow this is the worst series of posts I have ever seen on D&D. I too was shocked to discover that Germany/Europe was not the socialist wonderland of legend
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 01:20
|
|
|
Antwan3K posted:But I will maintain that The Rich (aka industrial and financial capital as well as old money) are definitely more of a net drain on any country. In fact, policies that they wrote more than likely caused parts of the lower contributions (by depressing wages in low-paying sectors) Now you can argue that a rich person causes more externalised costs or however that's called - like, his factories contribute massively to pollution, and the taxes he pays do not outweigh the damage that causes - but that is, I am sure, very hard to quantify, and as such, statements like that should be made carefully, at least when the class enemy is listening. When we're alone, we can plot what gulags to send the bankers to in peace, but for now we must keep up the pretence.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 01:30
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:You'll certainly have to clarify how you measure "drain" here, because simply on account of moving much more money, in capitalist societies, rich people will contribute more to e.g. welfare, and as they have more disposable income, they'll also tend to contribute a larger fraction of their income (poor people can't give to charities because they have no money in the first place). The rich (I mean actual rich not upper middle class) do pay proportionately less, as they get a large proportion of their income from sources other than labour, which are taxed less (eg. rent, inheritance) or put into different kinds of legal structures, to which the average or even above-average earner has no access. Also Switzerland still exists.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 03:42
|
|
|
I think we should tax the rich appropriately in order to support a sizeable social state
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 04:12
|
|
|
Antwan3K posted:The rich (I mean actual rich not upper middle class) do pay proportionately less, as they get a large proportion of their income from sources other than labour, which are taxed less (eg. rent, inheritance) or put into different kinds of legal structures, to which the average or even above-average earner has no access. Also Switzerland still exists.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 04:46
|
|
|
Antwan3K posted:The rich (I mean actual rich not upper middle class) do pay proportionately less, as they get a large proportion of their income from sources other than labour, which are taxed less (eg. rent, inheritance) or put into different kinds of legal structures, to which the average or even above-average earner has no access. Also Switzerland still exists. Nice attempt at changing the subject. Measuring stick is the amount of revenue generated after the deduction of transfers, not the proportion of that amount to taxable income, because that is what the ZEW study we were talking about used. Also contrary to what you claim rent income isn't taxed less than income from labour.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 10:17
|
|
|
quote:No this is actually an extremely disingenuous comparison between a class position and an ethno-religious identity, which is not at all the same thing. Why does the make up of the victim group matter when the complaint is about the hateful polemics used against it? quote:Hey, guess what: rich peoples honor doesn't need your protection. They have media teams, lawyer, judges and entire political parties. You are technically right, but I'm not gonna lose sleep over the hurt feelings of some rich dude. He doesn't give a poo poo about mine either. You heard it folks, vilifying a group of people and stir up hatred is ok if they have money.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 10:43
|
|
|
Riso posted:
Here we go with the moral high ground again. If you're not rich, you're obviously a victim, and therefore have moral outrage on your side. Any sense of nuance goes out the window in a discussion borne out of that mindset. Framing is everything. Just to clarify, it's absolutely fine with me (not that you need my permission) to be critical of the state of our society and where it's headed. And of course there are rich people that are cunts and whose wealth is based on the exploitation of the average Franz. But if you're making sweeping statements like all rich people should be put down (for what, exactly?), or make unsubstantiated claims about their net effect on our society as a whole, you accomplish nothing. It makes you sound like a juvenile idiot, and it makes your other arguments look bad, no matter how righteous your intent.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 12:18
|
|
|
Lucy Heartfilia posted:Nah, kill the rich. All of them. With a guillotine. Not enough. We have to nuke these fuckers, so we can eradicate those filthy poors together with them. Only when both the rich and the poor are dead can we be at peace.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 13:19
|
|
|
Libluini posted:Not enough. We have to nuke these fuckers, so we can eradicate those filthy poors together with them. Not a statement I can support, but at least it is fair and balanced without bias and prejudice.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 13:38
|
|
|
Time for a new thread title? "Germany discussion: enshrining rich people ITT"
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 14:42
|
|
|
Germany is Thunderdome: two cultures/classes/religions enter, one leaves.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 14:49
|
|
|
Germany, or how my pedophilia is none of your business.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 15:16
|
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:Germany is Thunderdome: two cultures/classes/religions enter, one leaves. Patriotische Suebi gegen die Romanisierung des Germanenlandes 
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 15:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 20:20 |
|
|
Germany Discussion: What have the rich ever done for us?Badly Jester posted:B-but privilege... Kill the Rich. Hang them all from guillotines.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 16:48
|
|