Police Reform

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Police Reform

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Shachi posted:

EDIT: If you need me I'll be ~~rioting, looting and calling for the death of people~~ peacefully protesting due to my outrage at two non-white NYPD officers being assassinated by a black man.

When Tea Party Patriots assassinated those other cops, was your outrage:
A. About the same
B. Less
C. Who?

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:12

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# ? May 11, 2024 05:44

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

ActusRhesus posted:

See, this is what I mean. Type three paragraph post outlining ways to improve justice system, and this is the immediate response. Is there any wonder this conversation struggles to move past circle jerk?

He wasn't responding to you. This is evident by the name at the top of the quote.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:14

esto es malo: Aug 3, 2006; Don't want to end up a cartoon

In a cartoon graveyard

Cole posted:

This entire thread is a sweeping generalization so those should be allowed

"Justice system and law enforcement has unfair biases towards groups of people" is a generalization that adequately assesses the situation around most of the population centers in the country, whereas "parents don't teach kids right from wrong today" is just dumb bullshit that is said throughout history about ~kids these days~.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:16

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

No, dipshit was in fact directed at me, as is the "my kid is up" snark.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:17

Cole: Nov 24, 2004; DUNSON'D

joeburz posted:

"Justice system and law enforcement has unfair biases towards groups of people" is a generalization that adequately assesses the situation around most of the population centers in the country, whereas "parents don't teach kids right from wrong today" is just dumb bullshit that is said throughout history about ~kids these days~.

This thread has said to stereotype all cops. That has nothing to do with what you just said.

But you can assume to know what I'm talking about to get the burn, or you can try to have a civil discussion about it.

Wait I can't even tell what your point is because instead of trying to make it you uh.. Well I dunno.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:18

esto es malo: Aug 3, 2006; Don't want to end up a cartoon

In a cartoon graveyard

Cole posted:

This thread has said to stereotype all cops. That has nothing to do with what you just said.

But you can assume to know what I'm talking about to get the burn, or you can try to have a civil discussion about it.

gently caress off and go away

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:19

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

ActusRhesus posted:

No, dipshit was in fact directed at me, as is the "my kid is up" snark.

That was not the post you quoted, first of all, but second of all, dipshit was directed at the following post that you made:

ActusRhesus posted:

*has done more public service than cheesy dick ever will and still looks for other ways to improve system while cheesy dick types some bullshit, masterbates furiously over his own superiority and pats self on back*

Which I agree, is a dipshit post.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:20

Cole: Nov 24, 2004; DUNSON'D

joeburz posted:

gently caress off and go away

30.5 Days posted:

That was not the post you quoted, first of all, but second of all, dipshit was directed at the following post that you made:

Which I agree, is a dipshit post.

You are seriously discussing who quoted who. How are you being constructive at all?

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:21

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

Cole posted:

You are seriously discussing who quoted who. How are you being constructive at all?

I can't tell if you're messing with me or what.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:22

Shachi: Nov 1, 2004; I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food.

botany posted:

Stop using homophobic language because people disagree with you on the internet, thanks.

No no, you misinterpret. I mean that you all are on a witch hunt to determine a person thusly. As if it is a race to the bottom to determine a person to be the largest <insert inflamatory insult here>.

I, myself, am not calling anyone as such nor is it meant in the context of an actual homophobic slur.

But you're too far up in your ivory tower to have took it as anything other than a homophobic slur thus obviously taken the higher road. I am clearly defeated.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:22

esto es malo: Aug 3, 2006; Don't want to end up a cartoon

In a cartoon graveyard

30.5 Days posted:

I can't tell if you're messing with me or what.

Just put him back on ignore, it's not worth it.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:23

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

30.5 Days posted:

That was not the post you quoted, first of all, but second of all, dipshit was directed at the following post that you made:

Which I agree, is a dipshit post.

That was a necroedit. The original post had no quote and immediately followed the heavy policy posts.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:23

Shachi: Nov 1, 2004; I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food.

moths posted:

When Tea Party Patriots assassinated those other cops, was your outrage:
A. About the same
B. Less
C. Who?

A. but of course me being in law enforcement clearly makes me a right-wing sympathizer so I wouldn't expect you to believe me.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:24

Cole: Nov 24, 2004; DUNSON'D

joeburz posted:

Just put him back on ignore, it's not worth it.

Ignore is great because it bumps threads, you just can't see why.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:25

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

ActusRhesus this must be a nice relaxing break from all the real activism you do (and have been scrupulous to conceal and not discuss the details of in any way, unlike your actual job which you have given enough details about to be identified). "I need to blow off some steam," you muse. Then you post a bunch of petulant poo poo like this:

ActusRhesus posted:

Because no one is actually discussing reform. Saying the cops suck over and over again is not reform. Which is why I asked what people are doing to change it. Apparently asking "what are you doing to help change the system?" is derailing the conversation because...yeah, sorry. I don't follow that logic.

Lots of reforms have been discussed, at one time you called them "hippy bullshit." Which seems like a phrase you must have borrowed from your masters? I think you're too young to use it with authority.

ActusRhesus posted:

*has done more public service than cheesy dick ever will and still looks for other ways to improve system while cheesy dick types some bullshit, masterbates furiously over his own superiority and pats self on back*

This is just an embarrassing meltdown, of course. Which is fine: it's the start of a crisis which will lead to you changing professions. But in the meantime, until your crisis is finished, it's disturbing to think of the lives in your hands.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:26

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

ActusRhesus posted:

That was a necroedit. The original post had no quote and immediately followed the heavy policy posts.

It was an edit. Necroedits have timestamps. You made a mistake, I accept your apology.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:27

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/blue-lives-matter-nypd-shooting/383977/?single_page=true

quote:

The reactions to the murders of two New York police officers this weekend have been mostly uniform in their outrage. There was the predictable gamesmanship exhibited in some quarters, but all agree that the killing of Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos merits particular censure. This is understandable. The killing of police officers is not only the destruction of life but an attack on democracy itself. We do not live in a military dictatorship, and police officers are not the representatives of an autarch, nor the enforcers of law handed down by decree. The police are representatives of a state that derives its powers from the people. Thus the strong reaction we have seen to Saturday's murders is wholly expected and entirely appropriate.

For activists and protesters radicalized by the killings of Michael Brown and Eric Garner, this weekend's killing may seem to pose a great obstacle. In fact, it merely points to the monumental task in front of them. Garner's death, particularly, seemed to offer some hope. But the very fact that this opening originated in the most extreme case�the on-camera choking of a man for a minor offense�points to the shaky ground on which such hope took root. It was only a matter of time before some criminal shot a police officer in New York. If that's all it takes to turn Americans away from police reform, the efforts were likely doomed from the start.

The idea of "police reform" obscures the task. Whatever one thinks of the past half-century of criminal-justice policy, it was not imposed on Americans by a repressive minority. The abuses that have followed from these policies�the sprawling carceral state, the random detention of black people, the torture of suspects�are, at the very least, byproducts of democratic will. Likely they are much more. It is often said that it is difficult to indict and convict police officers who abuse their power. It is comforting to think of these acquittals and non-indictments as contrary to American values. But it is just as likely that Americans hesitate to punish police officers because they see them as upholding American values. The three most trusted institutions in America are the military, small business, and the police.

To challenge the police is to challenge the American people, and the problem with the police is not that they are fascist pigs but that we are majoritarian pigs. When the police are brutalized by people, we are outraged because we are brutalized. By the same turn, when the police brutalize people, we are forgiving because ultimately we are really just forgiving ourselves. We seek to wield power, but not responsibility. The manifestation of this desire is broad. Former Mayor Rudy Giuliani responded to the killing of Michael Brown by labeling it a "significant exception" and wondering why weren't talking about "black on black crime." Giuliani was not out on a limb. The charge of insufficient outrage over "black on black crime" has been endorsed, at varying points, by everyone from the NAACP to Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson to Giuliani's archenemy Al Sharpton.

Implicit in this notion is that outrage over killings by the police should not be any greater than killings by ordinary criminals. But when it comes to outrage over killings of the police, the standard is different. Ismaaiyl Brinsley began his rampage by shooting his girlfriend�an act of both black-on-black crime and domestic violence. On Saturday, Officers Liu and Ramos were almost certainly joined in death by some tragic number of black people who were shot down by their neighbors in the street. The killings of Officers Liu and Ramos prompt national comment. The killings of black civilians do not. When it is convenient to award qualitative value to murder, we do so. When it isn't, we do not. We are outraged by violence done to police, because it violence done to all of us as a society. In the same measure, we look away from violence done by the police, because the police are not the true agents of the violence. We are.

We are the ones who designed the criminogenic ghettos. We are the ones who barred black people from leaving those ghettos. We are the ones who treat black men without criminal records as though they are white men with criminal records. We are the ones who send black girls to juvenile detention homes for fighting in school. We are the masters of the American gulag, a penal system "so vast," writes sociologist Bruce Western, "as to draw entire demographic groups into the web." And we are the ones who send in police to make sure it all goes according to plan.

When defenders of the police say that cops do the work ordinary citizens are afraid of, they are correct. The criminal-justice system has been the most consistent tool for making American will manifest in black communities. The tool for exercising that will is not the proliferation of ice cream socials. I suspect, we would like to know as little about criminal justice system as possible. I suspect we would rather the film of Eric Garner's killing not exist. Then we might comfort ourselves with the kind of vague unknowables that dogged the killing of Michael Brown. ("Did he have his hands up? Was he surrendering? Was he charging?") Garner, choked to death and repeating "I can't breathe," trapped us. But now, through a merciless act of lethal violence, an escape route has been revealed. This overstates things. To the extent that this weekend's murders obscure the legacy of Eric Garner, it will not be due to the failure of protests, nor even chance. The citizen who needs to look away, generally finds a reason.

I wonder if there is some price attached to this looking away. When the elected mayor of my city arrived at the hospital, the police officers who presumably serve at the public's leisure turned away in a display that should chill the blood of any interested citizen. The police are not the only embodiment of democratic society. And one does not have to work hard to imagine a future when the agents of our will, the agents whom we created, are in fact our masters. On that day one can expect that the tactics intended for the ghettos shall enjoy somewhat wider usage.

bold whole thing, mike drop, etc.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:28

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

SedanChair posted:

unlike your actual job which you have given enough details about to be identified

I really can't tell you how unacceptable this is. Maybe you meant it a different way than it came off but what the gently caress.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:29

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/blue-lives-matter-nypd-shooting/383977/?single_page=true

bold whole thing, mike drop, etc.

Oh hey it's Ta-Nehisi Coates slipping the knife in once again.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:29

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

AVeryLargeRadish posted:

When you get mad you should just stop posting for a bit until you can calm down. I mean, I hate to seem paternal or condescending here but descending to the level of your opponents only makes you look just like them.

Also, most of us here are just completely without hope that things will ever get significantly better in our lifetimes or due to our actions. I mean, African Americans have been fighting for equal treatment since the first slaves were brought over and they still haven't got it. Is there progress? Sure, but it feels like manning a bucket line into an active volcano, you make a difference but that difference is pretty loving laughable and can be wiped out by any number of events well beyond your, or anyone else's, control.

I'm going to ignore the mild misogynistic implications of telling a woman to just go calm down because I doubt you meant it that way. But I'm not mad. And I get your frustrations to the greatest extent a non-minority can, as there are some parallels to gender discrimination. Not the same, but the idea of being told "what are you so mad about? We fixed all the problems?" When looking around and rubbing two brain cells together shows you that's not so is infuriating. My problem here is that my status as a prosecutor leads some in here to immediately dismiss anything I say as just a cig in the machine of oppression.

And once that happens is there really much
Point in trying to persuade them otherwise? If you want to seriously talk about this, get a system insider's perspective and some help moving the ball forward a bit, pm me.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:31

esto es malo: Aug 3, 2006; Don't want to end up a cartoon

In a cartoon graveyard

30.5 Days posted:

I really can't tell you how unacceptable this is. Maybe you meant it a different way than it came off but what the gently caress.

He means ActusRhesus says they are a lawyer in just about every third post they make.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:32

Cole: Nov 24, 2004; DUNSON'D

SedanChair posted:

ActusRhesus this must be a nice relaxing break from all the real activism you do (and have been scrupulous to conceal and not discuss the details of in any way, unlike your actual job which you have given enough details about to be identified). "I need to blow off some steam," you muse. Then you post a bunch of petulant poo poo like this:

Lots of reforms have been discussed, at one time you called them "hippy bullshit." Which seems like a phrase you must have borrowed from your masters? I think you're too young to use it with authority.

This is just an embarrassing meltdown, of course. Which is fine: it's the start of a crisis which will lead to you changing professions. But in the meantime, until your crisis is finished, it's disturbing to think of the lives in your hands.

Congrats, you did absolutely nothing to progress the thread because now you're going to be responded to and then it's going to spiral and DND is still DND water wet

There's a reason these threads always end up nothing but poo poo posting. It's because of you disagree you're immediately outcast and your opinion is no longer respected because it doesn't buy into some Marxist theory or some poo poo.

You all remind me of 18 year community college students who try to sound like the smartest person in the room at all times. But you just kind of sound stupid.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:32

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

30.5 Days posted:

I really can't tell you how unacceptable this is. Maybe you meant it a different way than it came off but what the gently caress.

Yeah. This is really not cool and pretty much proves my point. If anyone wants to seriously discuss this, pm me, but I no longer feel comfortable posting in this thread if I am going to be threatened with IRL harassment.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:34

Shachi: Nov 1, 2004; I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food.

anonumos posted:

As a goon cop, what do you think about how even law-abiding white men are questioning the behavior of police around the country? Like, when you see a hillside execution of a homeless man in Arizona, a teen girl beaten in a jail cell, a teen boy slammed headfirst into a cinder block wall, an officer body checking a cyclist, half a dozen officers emptying their clips at a car in a crowded intersection, a baby flashbanged in his crib... The list goes on and on...

I makes me want to just give up because I'm clearly so institutionalized I'm incapable of seeing the tragedy of all those events? What do you expect me to say? I'm not advocating for any of that.

You've clearly got me over a barrel here and I should give up on the hundreds of innocent victims my profession helps on any given day. What have you been up to on a daily basis, goon?

Tell you what, you got me so good I'll just hang it up and these 18 case folders on my desk all involving...to put it bluntly, raped children, can work themselves.

Seriously though. Perhaps I should list my qualifications to be allowed to offer substance to a discussion:

8 years LEO
5 on the road
3 as a special victims detective

I'm against drug prohibition and believe in jail only for violent offenders. I'm also just fine with body cameras...just don't know who's going to pay for em or the infrastructure to support them.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:35

hepatizon: Oct 27, 2010

Cole posted:

Congrats, you did absolutely nothing to progress the thread because now you're going to be responded to and then it's going to spiral and DND is still DND water wet

There's a reason these threads always end up nothing but poo poo posting. It's because of you disagree you're immediately outcast and your opinion is no longer respected because it doesn't buy into some Marxist theory or some poo poo.

You all remind me of 18 year community college students who try to sound like the smartest person in the room at all times. But you just kind of sound stupid.

Haha, you don't get to dismiss everyone who disagrees with you just because you saw a Marxist once.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:35

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

ActusRhesus posted:

My problem here is that my status as a prosecutor leads some in here to immediately dismiss anything I say as just a cig in the machine of oppression.

Outside of sedanchair's "how many families did your break up today" poo poo, I dismiss everything you say because of your behavior when you've argued with me in the past, and I'm sure most people are like that. You spend a lot of time demanding everyone assume good faith on your part, but you do not offer others the same courtesy.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:36

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/blue-lives-matter-nypd-shooting/383977/?single_page=true

bold whole thing, mike drop, etc.

So he's saying that if we lived in a totalitarian dictatorship, assassinating police would be OK, but since we live in a totalitarian democracy it's not OK, because the police are carrying out the will of the people, not of the elite. Which seems to imply that voters should bear the brunt of the resistance state enforcers would face in an undemocratic system.

Getting a little radical there, Atlantic!

ActusRhesus posted:

Yeah. This is really not cool and pretty much proves my point. If anyone wants to seriously discuss this, pm me, but I no longer feel comfortable posting in this thread if I am going to be threatened with IRL harassment.

Get over yourself and please don't use the normal cop/prosecutor security state pity party to see things that aren't there. My point is that you have divulged your demographic information, the state where you work and all the cases you've worked this year. But when it comes to this creditable public service you allude to in order to portray every other goon as a cheeto-huffing basement troll, it's rather vaguely referenced.

Unless you mean to frame your actual job as public service, of course. Which I would disagree with.

woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Dec 22, 2014

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:36

Cole: Nov 24, 2004; DUNSON'D

hepatizon posted:

Haha, you don't get to dismiss everyone who disagrees with you just because you saw a Marxist once.

But DND does soooo

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:38

Shachi: Nov 1, 2004; I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food.

30.5 Days posted:

Outside of sedanchair's "how many families did your break up today" poo poo, I dismiss everything you say because of your behavior when you've argued with me in the past, and I'm sure most people are like that. You spend a lot of time demanding everyone assume good faith on your part, but you do not offer others the same courtesy.

He's got a point...

Also stop dropping my cases because you're concerned about your W/L you lawyer, you.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:39

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/blue-lives-matter-nypd-shooting/383977/?single_page=true

bold whole thing, mike drop, etc.

There is no one better writing right now.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:39

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

Shachi posted:

Tell you what, you got me so good I'll just hang it up and these 18 case folders on my desk all involving...to put it bluntly, raped children, can work themselves.

Are there any public officials other than police who respond to criticism by threatening not to do their jobs? It's a really common trope "oh well I hope you don't call the cops when your house gets broken into". A lot of public officials deal with criticism, much of it not even based in reality, but none of them ever threaten to shut off your water or whatever. It's even more bizarre when you consider that inherent in a cop's threat to not do their job is a threat of violence, since police are SUPPOSED to stop citizens from being victims of violence. It doesn't work out that way but if you're still a cop and buy into the idea of police, then a threat not to respond to a call is a threat of violence.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:41

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

30.5 Days posted:

Are there any public officials other than police who respond to criticism by threatening not to do their jobs? It's a really common trope "oh well I hope you don't call the cops when your house gets broken into". A lot of public officials deal with criticism, much of it not even based in reality, but none of them ever threaten to shut off your water or whatever. It's even more bizarre when you consider that inherent in a cop's threat to not do their job is a threat of violence, since police are SUPPOSED to stop citizens from being victims of violence. It doesn't work out that way but if you're still a cop and buy into the idea of police, then a threat not to respond to a call is a threat of violence.

Yes, that is called a protection racket.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:42

copper rose petal: Apr 30, 2013

Shachi posted:

I makes me want to just give up because I'm clearly so institutionalized I'm incapable of seeing the tragedy of all those events? What do you expect me to say? I'm not advocating for any of that.

You've clearly got me over a barrel here and I should give up on the hundreds of innocent victims my profession helps on any given day. What have you been up to on a daily basis, goon?

Tell you what, you got me so good I'll just hang it up and these 18 case folders on my desk all involving...to put it bluntly, raped children, can work themselves.

Threatening to stop doing your job as a cop because some people want to implement institutional reforms that seek to address problems you "are not advocating for" is exactly the thing people are complaining about. It's okay to say "there are institutional problems in the law enforcement community that should be addressed" and not lose your cred as a cop, and the fact that so many cops have responded to legitimate criticisms of those institutional problems with "well I guess I'll just stop responding to calls and quit trying to solve these cases then!" is actually pretty indicative of how entrenched the institutional problems are. The fact that we have to qualify every discussion with "not all cops are bad, just some of them do bad things, of course nobody wants to see cops harmed..." shows how entrenched it is in society at large, not just within the LE community. There is not some magic ratio where if you help enough innocent victims harmed at the hands of criminals the number of innocent victims harmed at the hands of police will be washed away because the cops are on balance more positive than negative.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:45

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

ActusRhesus posted:

Yeah. This is really not cool and pretty much proves my point. If anyone wants to seriously discuss this, pm me, but I no longer feel comfortable posting in this thread if I am going to be threatened with IRL harassment.

The irony is that you wanted to know my credentials and what I do to judge you and your post. You can just do what I did to you and ignore it, making progress in actually discussing thread content.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:47

Vire: Nov 4, 2005; Like a Bosh

Shachi posted:

I makes me want to just give up because I'm clearly so institutionalized I'm incapable of seeing the tragedy of all those events? What do you expect me to say? I'm not advocating for any of that.

You've clearly got me over a barrel here and I should give up on the hundreds of innocent victims my profession helps on any given day. What have you been up to on a daily basis, goon?

Tell you what, you got me so good I'll just hang it up and these 18 case folders on my desk all involving...to put it bluntly, raped children, can work themselves.

Seriously though. Perhaps I should list my qualifications to be allowed to offer substance to a discussion:

8 years LEO
5 on the road
3 as a special victims detective

I'm against drug prohibition and believe in jail only for violent offenders. I'm also just fine with body cameras...just don't know who's going to pay for em or the infrastructure to support them.

I am not sure what he is trying to prove by saying that either? If you think some cops are abusing their power and painting the many good cops who do their jobs as bad guys, well you should be all about reform. Especially so since the public is losing their faith in the ability for the police to do it right.

Vire fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Dec 22, 2014

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:48

copper rose petal: Apr 30, 2013

Vire posted:

I am not sure what he is trying to prove by saying that either? If you think some cops are abusing their power and painting the many good cops who do their jobs as bad guys well you should be all about reform.

Yeah it doesn't make a very good case for the idea that it's just a small number of lovely cops who do bad things when the institutional response to "hey did you really need to kill that guy?" is "that's a nice mayor you've got there, shame if something were to happen to him."

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:50

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

It's too late guys. It's too late. I'm now too sad to prosecute child rapists.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:52

esto es malo: Aug 3, 2006; Don't want to end up a cartoon

In a cartoon graveyard

30.5 Days posted:

Are there any public officials other than police who respond to criticism by threatening not to do their jobs? It's a really common trope "oh well I hope you don't call the cops when your house gets broken into". A lot of public officials deal with criticism, much of it not even based in reality, but none of them ever threaten to shut off your water or whatever. It's even more bizarre when you consider that inherent in a cop's threat to not do their job is a threat of violence, since police are SUPPOSED to stop citizens from being victims of violence. It doesn't work out that way but if you're still a cop and buy into the idea of police, then a threat not to respond to a call is a threat of violence.

People get mad as hell in the medical field when there are combative or abusive patients but they still do their job without the holier-than-thou bullshit. That's even without the ability to physically beat someone you dislike and escape nearly all ramifications. It might result in post-shift drinking to deal with a lot of the problems but you don't see a doc or nurse say "don't call me next time you're feeling sick!!!!".

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:53

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

The "only a few bad apples, no need to look any further into this" breaks down when they don't punish the bad apples and vilify anyone that suggests that the bad apples might not be great since The Process cleared them of any wrong doing. The problem is the people involved in the process don't seem to get that when the process itself is obviously corrupt, the people outside of it have no vested interest in pretending that there isn't a problem. So they get really insulted, confused, and angry when people don't give it the respect they think it deserves.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:54

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# ? May 11, 2024 05:44

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

joeburz posted:

People get mad as hell in the medical field when there are combative or abusive patients but they still do their job without the holier-than-thou bullshit. That's even without the ability to physically beat someone you dislike and escape nearly all ramifications. It might result in post-shift drinking to deal with a lot of the problems but you don't see a doc or nurse say "don't call me next time you're feeling sick!!!!".

Well and that's my point- government employees of all sorts get an awful lot of undeserved bullshit, I've literally only heard this poo poo from cops. Even if the police as an institution were entirely healthy and not hosed up, this would be pretty uncalled-for.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:54

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Police Reform

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