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MonsieurChoc posted:For anyone who understands French, french-canadian dude-who-makes-fun-of-the-news Jean-René "Infoman" Dufort just did a Israel/Palestine special. Among other things, he puts his own graffiti on the security wall. Il n'est pas disponible dans mon pays. 
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Dec 20, 2014 03:46
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Il n'est pas disponible dans mon pays. This is a weird feeling. Normally, it is the opposite that happens. I shall Blame Canada.
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Dec 20, 2014 03:50
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Seriously, you do realize that Hamas's rise owes at least some of its success to exactly this kind of thinking re: Fatah, right? This is a terrible idea. I thought this exact same thing. My second thought was "Who would be insane enough to want ISIS operating on their border? Main Paineframe posted:See the second half of what you quoted. Us being less friendly with Israel is not the same as being unfriendly with them. Israel can survive just fine without the US subsidizing their military, and there's no way we're going to put economic sanctions on them. Besides, if Obama is any indication, the big thing annoying US leadership about Israel isn't their tendency to wage indiscriminate warfare against armed Muslim groups, but rather settlement expansion. I think Israel could easily get along without the military subsidies. But losing the vetoes on the UNSC would set them back a lot. If the international community starts to hit them with binding resolutions, things could spiral downwards fast. That said, I see no reason to disagree with the second sentence in your post so far.
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Dec 20, 2014 06:16
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Main Paineframe posted:See the second half of what you quoted. Us being less friendly with Israel is not the same as being unfriendly with them. Israel can survive just fine without the US subsidizing their military, and there's no way we're going to put economic sanctions on them. Besides, if Obama is any indication, the big thing annoying US leadership about Israel isn't their tendency to wage indiscriminate warfare against armed Muslim groups, but rather settlement expansion. If settlement expansion halts forever and the most obnoxious settler assholes settle the gently caress down, it's not completely implausible that the situation might successfully calcify. It's not a bad long-term policy at all.
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Dec 20, 2014 06:18
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GreyjoyBastard posted:If settlement expansion halts forever and the most obnoxious settler assholes settle the gently caress down, it's not completely implausible that the situation might successfully calcify. It's not a bad long-term policy at all. Except for it won't stop, and there will be no consequences, just like there hasn't been. It's all talk, which has been Obama.txt when it comes to mid east tensions. It's kind of funny how Israel has so much influence on the American political system when we have gently caress all in theirs.
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Dec 20, 2014 06:24
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That's not even getting into the whole thing during Protective Edge when Israeli politicians were openly criticizing the US for its own domestic policies despite $250 million for the iron dome being given to them. They were throwing everyone under the bus. Lot of butthurt generals and officials with bruised egos in the US after that. Sucks to find out you don't wear the pants in the relationship.
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Dec 20, 2014 06:28
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Volkerball posted:They were throwing everyone under the bus. Lot of butthurt generals and officials with bruised egos in the US after that. Sucks to find out you don't wear the pants in the relationship.
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Dec 20, 2014 19:17
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:I thought this exact same thing. My second thought was "Who would be insane enough to want ISIS operating on their border? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5nigZzgf4Y They're not so bad.
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Dec 20, 2014 20:14
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Apparently there is progress in talks about a united Arab list for the Knesset. This Israeli report cite Arab news-source Kul al-Arab as finding 80% support for a united list, while only 5% are opposed; and predicts 62% of the Arab population intending to vote in this election, as opposed to 56% last time. The Israeli story was shared by Balad Stage, an outreach page by National Democratic Assembly, representing liberal Palestinian nationalist inside of Israel, which I assume means that they are very much in favor of this move. From other sources I heard that there are very serious reservations about this from Jewish activists in Hadash, the communist-led front which bills itself as an Arab-Jewish party. On the other hand, they, like the other Arab-led parties, run the risk of simply not passing the threshold running alone. Perhaps Hadash will split into Jewish-led and Arab-led parts, which has already happened a few times in the past.
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Dec 21, 2014 18:23
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Volkerball posted:Except for it won't stop, and there will be no consequences, just like there hasn't been. It's all talk, which has been Obama.txt when it comes to mid east tensions. It's kind of funny how Israel has so much influence on the American political system when we have gently caress all in theirs. Well yeah. I was speaking to the notion that if it did have consequences that wouldn't be enough. I think it might be enough.
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Dec 21, 2014 21:09
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Dead Reckoning posted:lol What? I don't Israel has ever called out US military chiefs by name. Why would they? No they called out your president instead.
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Dec 21, 2014 21:13
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Regarde Aduck posted:No they called out your president instead. And the Secretary of State. ETA: Speaking of State, guess what the US Ambassador to Israel got for Hannukah:  I'm surprised there isn't a Gaza Menorah.
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 21:55
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Was it mentioned that the reported acid spraying incident from ten days ago was apparently just some guy spraying vinegar on a settler http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Report-Acid-used-in-West-Bank-attack-was-vinegar-384530 confused at the reports of 'light injuries' tbqh. More on EI: http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/guardian-reports-acid-attack-israelis-never-happened
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Dec 23, 2014 01:20
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Was it mentioned that the reported acid spraying incident from ten days ago was apparently just some guy spraying vinegar on a settler I entirely missed this. I think it's pretty antisemitic to treat Settlers like fries. It's dehumanizing. Bet he would have eaten them, too, if that hero hadn't shot him in the leg to stop his rampage.
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Dec 23, 2014 01:25
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Vinegar on fries? you've gone native dude.
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Dec 23, 2014 01:30
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Vinegar on fries? you've gone native dude. Oh my God. What have I become? 
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Dec 23, 2014 01:41
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Oh my God. What have I become? You have become Upstate, Destroyer of culture, Eater of garbageplates, Consumer of vinnegar chips. Pretty rad gift to the Israeli ambassador. Does it shoot out little missiles with a remote? I want one. More to the point, how's Bibi holding up? I'd like to see him win re-election.
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Dec 23, 2014 01:52
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My Imaginary GF posted:You have become Upstate, quote:Pretty rad gift to the Israeli ambassador. Does it shoot out little missiles with a remote? I want one. quote:More to the point, how's Bibi holding up? I'd like to see him win re-election.
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Dec 23, 2014 02:01
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So how are the elections ramp up going? Is Israel going to be less openly pro apartheid?
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Dec 23, 2014 21:25
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Crowsbeak posted:So how are the elections ramp up going? Is Israel going to be less openly pro apartheid? I don't think there's anything new after stuff already brought up earlier in the thread. As for it being less pro apartheid... I don't think them just being plane not systemically discriminatory is on the cards for after this election. The "best" case scenario is you get enough people in a coalition that under pressure is willing to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza, so at least Palestinians there are no longer being cordoned in and/or removed from their homes. Inside of Israel? The President is pushing hard against racism, but the public is very much in favor of Jewish supremacy, and there isn't a prevalent understanding of the importance of minority rights. With luck the increase in the election threshold and the attacks on Arab MK's as Arab MK's will lead to a more unified policy by Arab leaders, increased turnout turning them into a more significant bloc in the next Knesset, and thus maybe giving them more political power, but whatever level you look at it it's not looking to be moving away from an ethnocracy anytime soon.
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Dec 23, 2014 21:37
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That's a downright utopian best case scenario. Even a center-left government led by Herzog and Livni (which ain't gonna happen, btw) wouldn't withdraw from the west bank within the next term (unless massive american pressure is applied, that is. Which is another thing that's not happening). At best such a government would be willing to engage in bad faith negotiations as a form of procrastination, heck I can't imagine such a government not bombing Gaza again in a year or two regardless of their alleged peaceful intentions. So, less apartheid? no.
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Dec 23, 2014 23:03
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emanresu tnuocca posted:That's a downright utopian best case scenario. I did caveat that with "under pressure".
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Dec 23, 2014 23:14
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How bad would the Jewish public get if the Palestinians in Israel formed a united list?
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Dec 24, 2014 00:41
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You mean Israeli Arabs? They're trying, but from what I've read, even if they succeed in putting their differences aside and joining forces, they'll end up at around 15 seats out of the 120 in the Knesset. That's not going to accomplish much, and aside from the usual grandstanding, I doubt the Israeli public will pay more attention than usual.
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Dec 24, 2014 01:07
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Reza Aslan was asked about a year ago about his feelings on a two-state solution. His response was quote:There is no peace process. There is no two-state solution. Its over. The idea that we can continue at a time, where there are 500,000 Israelis living on whats supposed to be the future Palestinian land. And the fact that that number is growing at an accelerated pace. There is nothing left of Palestine. There's just Ramallah, thats it. You're just gonna call Ramallah Palestine... and then some deserts in the Negev and Gaza? Nobody wants Gaza. Its over. Which to me seemed like a fairly succinct explanation of the situation. That was from September, 2013 though. And as far as I can tell, I agree with it. Gaza is unlikely to ever want to be part of Israel (and its not like Israel settlers are moving there, so I guess they don't want it either), and the West Bank is slowly being taken over as is. I guess eventually Israel will completely absorb the West Bank and Gaza will remain an open-air prison even after that?
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Dec 24, 2014 01:27
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How the IDF stole Christmas http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=749364
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Dec 24, 2014 01:40
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botany posted:You mean Israeli Arabs? They're trying, but from what I've read, even if they succeed in putting their differences aside and joining forces, they'll end up at around 15 seats out of the 120 in the Knesset. That's not going to accomplish much, and aside from the usual grandstanding, I doubt the Israeli public will pay more attention than usual. I thought Palestinians in Israel made up over 20% of the population. Wouldn't that means 30 seats in the Knesset? Also considering how racist Israeli society is wouldn't they having such a presence in the knesset lead to some sort of shitstorm?
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Dec 24, 2014 01:42
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No (real) democracy in the world has 100% voter turnout, The Palestinian citizens of Israel have lower turnout than Jewish Israelis, and a considerable portion of them votes for Jewish led parties, the arab parties have never come close to 30 seats.
emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Dec 24, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2014 01:44
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Brainbread posted:Which to me seemed like a fairly succinct explanation of the situation. That was from September, 2013 though. And as far as I can tell, I agree with it. Gaza is unlikely to ever want to be part of Israel (and its not like Israel settlers are moving there, so I guess they don't want it either), and the West Bank is slowly being taken over as is. And yes, I use the word "reservations" deliberately. Since a one-state solution is probably the only avenue left, creating reservations like the US did with Native Americas gives Israel a way to say "okay we gave the Palestinians some autonomy, get off our backs" while still keeping all the land. fade5 fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Dec 24, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2014 03:27
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fade5 posted:Sooner or later the Gaza strip and parts of the West Bank will probably be turned into Palestinian reservations, with the Palestinians eventually given semi-autonomous rule, albeit while still under Israeli jurisdiction. There even used to be a casino in Jericho.
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Dec 24, 2014 03:36
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http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4607234,00.html Minor incident on the Gaza border, according to the Israeli reports a Hamas marksmen squad opened fire on an IDF convoy, IDF responded with artillery and airstrikes, one Hamas officer was killed. Reminder that on friday a Qassam was fired towards Eshkol and in response the IDF bombed a Hamas compound, there were no casualties on that occasion. This is perhaps indicative that the 'secret negotiations' which were one of the reported terms of the secret ceasefire agreement are not going to well, or perhaps they are not taking place at all. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Dec 24, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2014 12:58
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Brainbread posted:
It was an easy strategy to use as long as the world believed all the bald-faced lies about "peaceful democratic Israel". PEACE! PEACE! PEACE! *kills kids, steals land* *Awards medals to terrorists and murderers*
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Dec 24, 2014 14:38
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So, two things, apparently an IDF soldier was seriously wounded during the incident earlier today: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4607234,00.html Now here's an actually possibly interesting development: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4607410,00.html quote:The Likud comptroller has disqualified Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu from running in the party's internal primaries ahead of the general election, citing illegal use of party resources. The hebrew article on haaretz also quotes Netanyahu's cronies as stating that the Likud comptroller doesn't have the authority to disqualify candidates, so, whether this actually means anything remains to be seen. Edit: And lest we forgot! This has been an exciting day http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4607132,00.html quote:Lieberman's Yisrael Beiteinu at heart of major corruption scandal emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Dec 24, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2014 16:21
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This is apparently a full-page ad in the NYT today. Nothing new for those who are familiar with the usual rhetoric, but pretty vile nonetheless.
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Dec 24, 2014 18:25
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Barry Convex posted:This is apparently a full-page ad in the NYT today. Nothing new for those who are familiar with the usual rhetoric, but pretty vile nonetheless. ... isn't same-sex marriage illegal in Israel? "I mean. We don't recognize queer people as having the same rights of other citizens, but those guys are SO MUCH WORSE therefore we are absolved of any criticism." Saying that you're better than people actively butchering queer people isn't really saying that much at all.
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Dec 24, 2014 19:30
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Who cares about apartheid and colonialism, gay rights are the only benchmark for human rights and democracy!
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Dec 24, 2014 19:34
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DarkCrawler posted:Who cares about apartheid and colonialism, gay rights are the only benchmark for human rights and democracy! You sound just like USAID.
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Dec 24, 2014 19:36
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Brainbread posted:Reza Aslan was asked about a year ago about his feelings on a two-state solution.
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Dec 24, 2014 20:58
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Barry Convex posted:This is apparently a full-page ad in the NYT today. Nothing new for those who are familiar with the usual rhetoric, but pretty vile nonetheless. Haha maybe its a sign that you might not be the good guys if you literally have to put ads in foreign papers being like "My Country: We don't even kill gay people," Even ISIS doesn't feel the need to put out ad campaigns protesting their portrayal in the media. I genuinely think Israel would get less poo poo if they just owned up and were like "Well yeah. We're basically colonial America/Australia, we need to get rid of all the natives so that we can live here instead,". Rather than couching everything in like fifty recursive layers of outright falsehoods and vague deceits.
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Dec 24, 2014 21:09
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Israeli propaganda is for people who already support Israel, it's a way to promote talking points. Israel relies on its existing power base, it doesn't seek new converts.
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Dec 24, 2014 21:17
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