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pisshead posted:The problem is, a lot of these heavies are on 300ms links and move around like morph. And a lot of the bad spies and snipers aren't focusing on killing high-priority targets like Heavies. Spies have a get-out-of-death-free button and Snipers can gently caress off elsewhere to shoot at less difficult players. If they were actually focusing on winning the objective or helping the team, it'd be a different story, but Bad Pub Spies/Snipers are interested in headshots and stairstabs, especially if it's against a Bad Pub Spy/Sniper from the other team.
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Dec 27, 2014 08:32
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Abyssal Squid posted:Did you know that Red doesn't need offense. As evidenced by all those successful defenses on a team made up of 2 engies, 4 snipers, and 4 spies, as anyone who has played on a Valve server will attest to.
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Dec 27, 2014 08:33
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Heavies are both very easy to headshot and pitifully bad at long range though. I don't even know who could be a "less difficult player" for a sniper to go after.
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Dec 27, 2014 08:40
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bowmore posted:I think the heavy should be immune to the pyro's airblast Here's the only idea I've seen in the past few pages that actually is respectable
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Dec 27, 2014 08:40
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Fojar38 posted:Ways to take down a short circuit engineer: It shouldn't take half a team to take down a single player. Why does the attacking team have to use teamwork to destroy, but it shouldn't take teamwork to defend it? The short circuit is a stupid crutch for engies who put their sentries in bad positions. Your fourth example would require three players to take out a single sentry. The medic with the ubercharge, a demo to deplete the SC, and another to actually destroy it.
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Dec 27, 2014 08:42
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pisshead posted:It shouldn't take half a team to take down a single player. Why does the attacking team have to use teamwork to destroy, but it shouldn't take teamwork to defend it? Two players: Half a team And effectively defending a sentry nest does require teamwork, particularly if the attackers are actually coordinating. I've seen Short Circuit engineers stop solo Demomen and Soldiers trying to take down their sentry. I have never seen the short circuit single handedly stop a push made up of multiple players.
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Dec 27, 2014 08:46
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pisshead posted:Why does the attacking team have to use teamwork to destroy, but it shouldn't take teamwork to defend it? pisshead posted:The short circuit is a stupid crutch for engies who put their sentries in bad positions. Your fourth example would require three players to take out a single sentry. The medic with the ubercharge, a demo to deplete the SC, and another to actually destroy it.
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Dec 27, 2014 08:53
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Fojar38 posted:A single player that has next to no offensive capability unless they're a mini-sentry engineer in which case the short circuit is an active hindrance. That's the tradeoff of playing an engineer; very powerful defenses but no real offensive capability aside from supporting your team with teleporters or dispensers. Picking Short Circuit + Rescue Ranger is the most defensive loadout possible but you will never, ever be able to go on offense with it unless the rest of your team is actively guarding you while you move that gear up or something. I don't think that it's a bad thing that multiple players are often required to work together to get past a class that is purely defensive, because if one player could stomp them and their defenses the class would literally be useless, especially if the Engineer has spent the time required to even get a meaningful sentry nest up. That's why it traditionally takes an uber-charged demoman to take out a sentry nest. It shouldn't take a third player after the first demoman's projectiles evaporate. If two players are taking out the sentry, your team already has a man advantage, it doesn't need another one.
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Dec 27, 2014 08:55
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Zero! posted:I think they just give you a collector version of the weapon/cosmetic and the only way you can then make that strange is with a strangifier. That makes sense, since I can't find any strange BFBs or Loch n Loads and such.
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Dec 27, 2014 09:21
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In other news, TF2 is on the verge of being dropped from ESEA due to low signups, which with CEVO TF2 also dead means North America 6s is pretty much dead.
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Dec 27, 2014 09:30
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Fojar38 posted:Two players: Half a team thats funny. Because I've seen it happen enough to where the problem with the SC becomes apparent to good players but unnoticed by terrible ones. I've also seen 2 engies with dual sentries and dispeners both with the short circuit effectively shut down 2 ubers and 5 spam classes at the same time.
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Dec 27, 2014 09:35
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Secret advanced technique: switch to a non-explosives class
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Dec 27, 2014 09:38
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Secret advanced technique: switch to a non-explosives class Explosives are usually the counter to sentries, though. With hitscan, you can only shoot at it when it can shoot at you. Like, I'm normally kinda onboard with thinking "Soldier and Demo are leagues above the other classes, and that doesn't feel quite right to me". But if there's one role that I was always glad they excelled at, it's sentry busting. I don't understand why the short circuit exists. As someone who plays Scout more than anything else, I'd be totally fine with a class that shuts down Engineers as badly as Engineers shut down scouts.
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Dec 27, 2014 09:51
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Secret advanced technique: switch to a non-explosives class Yeah take that sentry down with a shotgun.
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Dec 27, 2014 09:56
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pisshead posted:Yeah take that sentry down with a shotgun. You can take it down with a sniper rifle if you have a long sight line on it or with a heavy if you don't.
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Dec 27, 2014 09:59
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Heavy can only take it down it the Engy isn't repairing it
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Dec 27, 2014 10:03
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bowmore posted:Heavy can only take it down it the Engy isn't repairing it Or if it's close, which it usually is if it's tucked away from snipers. Also you know what an Engineer can't do while repairing his sentry? Use the short circuit.
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Dec 27, 2014 10:03
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Fojar38 posted:Or if it's close, which it usually is if it's tucked away from snipers.
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Dec 27, 2014 10:04
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Fojar38 posted:You can take it down with a sniper rifle if you have a long sight line on it or with a heavy if you don't. Sniper rifle doesn't do anywhere near enough damage to take down a sentry, and how often do you see them in a sniper sightline anyway?
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Dec 27, 2014 10:06
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Yeah a sniper can take down a sentry in a couple of shots if the rifle is fully charged and the Engy isn't repairing it, if he is the best case is to headshot the Engy and go from there. In all those cases the Engy deserves a good sniping for choosing a lovely spot.
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Dec 27, 2014 10:08
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bowmore posted:so it's back to the team work angle? I'm struggling to determine if this post is unironic or not.
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Dec 27, 2014 10:15
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pisshead posted:In other news, TF2 is on the verge of being dropped from ESEA due to low signups, which with CEVO TF2 also dead means North America 6s is pretty much dead. Christ. That sucks.
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Dec 27, 2014 10:16
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pisshead posted:Sniper rifle doesn't do anywhere near enough damage to take down a sentry, and how often do you see them in a sniper sightline anyway? "three shots to kill a thing??? what is this garbage?"
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Dec 27, 2014 10:23
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pisshead posted:In other news, TF2 is on the verge of being dropped from ESEA due to low signups, which with CEVO TF2 also dead means North America 6s is pretty much dead. If the rumors are true that in-client competitive matchmaking requires the same cash-purchased ticket system as MvM it will be a sad end to a long and pretty-good game.
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Dec 27, 2014 10:24
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Imagine if snipers could effectively headshot sentry guns
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Dec 27, 2014 10:26
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I mean, Overwatch will probably replace it soon which is sad but hey, no matter what I feel TF2 had one of the most longlasting lifespans of any game of it's nature, and sometimes you just gotta let things rest. It's still fun to play but it's obvious it doesn't have that spark any more for a lot of people, or it's just been overplayed due to the sheer time it's been around. Though I do love that after over 7 years of being around, people are still debating on "best methods to take out a sentry"  Edit: Though I definitely think the TF2 team itself is one of the strongest character casts of pretty much any game ever, and somehow pulling this off even without any campaign of any sorts. Overwatch is going to replace it in gameplay but the spirit of TF2 will probably always live on because I really don't think you're going to get the joy of a new "Meet the X" in Overwatch, or even stupid youtube memes involving some character's voice lines being edited to sing some dumb song. Jewel fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Dec 27, 2014 |
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Dec 27, 2014 10:26
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Jewel posted:I mean, Overwatch will probably replace it soon which is sad There's a quote from a developer saying they want that game to not be competitive-focused because "those people" have other games they can play..... 
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Dec 27, 2014 10:28
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Jewel posted:I mean, Overwatch will probably replace it soon which is sad but hey, no matter what I feel TF2 had one of the most longlasting lifespans of any game of it's nature, and sometimes you just gotta let things rest. It's still fun to play but it's obvious it doesn't have that spark any more for a lot of people, or it's just been overplayed due to the sheer time it's been around. There are still plenty of new players replacing them. I'm not really convinced of the imminent death of TF2 because from the looks of it the people leaving are the kinds of people with 3000 hours played who never play anything but stock loadouts on badlands nowadays.
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Dec 27, 2014 10:29
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Reiley posted:There's a quote from a developer saying they want that game to not be competitive-focused because "those people" have other games they can play..... Well, I mean, being competitive Focused and being competitive are different things. It'll still be able to be played competitively I feel, even if there's no in game lobbying to support that. Though perhaps that meant that it's not going to be competitive "as a whole" like Dota2 is. Fojar38 posted:There are still plenty of new players replacing them. I'm not really convinced of the imminent death of TF2 because from the looks of it the people leaving are the kinds of people with 3000 hours played who never play anything but stock loadouts on badlands nowadays. I definitely feel the free to play nature of the game means it'll be around for quite a while longer, yeah. I remember people playing Halo 1 at LAN parties even five years ago, so it's definitely still got a ton of merit and isn't any less playable than it started.
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Dec 27, 2014 10:31
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I'm also not really sure how you "quit" a free to play game.
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Dec 27, 2014 10:32
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No you don't understand the short circuit killed TF2. RIP let's all play mobas.
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Dec 27, 2014 10:33
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pisshead posted:Yeah take that sentry down with a shotgun. Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Dec 27, 2014 |
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Dec 27, 2014 10:38
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I just don't understand why Valve can't just port the CS:GO competitive matchmaking system wholesale to tf2. That change alone would revive comp tf2 a whole lot and could even bring some new players into the mix as well. Granted, it would bring some worse elements on the side (whining/raging babbies and hackers) but I'll loving take it if the alternative is dustbowl/goldrush/2fort 24/7 with half the team a spawnbuilding engies and the other half as super spies cloak&daggering in a corner forever. I know tf2center exists, but it's still an external service and there is no reason at all why cs:go style matchmaking couldn't work in tf2.
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Dec 27, 2014 10:38
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Fojar38 posted:I'm also not really sure how you "quit" a free to play game. You stop playing it?
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Dec 27, 2014 10:41
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boo_radley posted:"three shots to kill a thing??? what is this garbage?" The engie can repair a sentry much faster than a sniper can charge shots, even if he's doing other things as well.
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Dec 27, 2014 10:48
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Fojar38 posted:There are still plenty of new players replacing them. I'm not really convinced of the imminent death of TF2 because from the looks of it the people leaving are the kinds of people with 3000 hours played who never play anything but stock loadouts on badlands nowadays. Yes but if you replace gameplay-orientated old-school FPS players with the reddit crowd who come for the memes and hats, the game will be over as a game even if there are people logged into it. If there are 80k playing the game, and 40k of those are congaing whilst the others rancho relaxo then is it even a game anymore?
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Dec 27, 2014 10:55
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pisshead posted:Yes but if you replace gameplay-orientated old-school FPS players with the reddit crowd who come for the memes and hats, the game will be over as a game even if there are people logged into it. If there are 80k playing the game, and 40k of those are congaing whilst the others rancho relaxo then is it even a game anymore? You're drastically exaggerating the amount of congaing and taunting that goes on versus actual game.
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Dec 27, 2014 11:07
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Fojar38 posted:A single player that has next to no offensive capability unless they're a mini-sentry engineer in which case the short circuit is an active hindrance. Plant mini, spam short circuit so that no demomen/soldiers can blow it up, win game/die when the other team goes all heavies
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Dec 27, 2014 11:11
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cock hero flux posted:Plant mini, spam short circuit so that no demomen/soldiers can blow it up, win game/die when the other team goes all heavies Pull out shotgun, destroy mini-sentry, laugh when Engineer tries to build another only to find he has no metal.
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Dec 27, 2014 11:14
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I think its safe to say the game will not have a shortage of players but it is becoming harder to find people who make the game fun to play against as they move on to greener pastures and TF2 becomes the ballpit of steam.
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Dec 27, 2014 11:15
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