Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Libya Dawn launched rockets at al-Sidra oil port from speedboats in an attempt to take it over. While they failed, some serious fires started, and now 5 oil tanks have gone up. Libya is asking Italy for help to extinguish them.

# ? Dec 27, 2014 18:11

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 08:14

dr_rat: Jun 4, 2001

Alex DeLarge posted:

Not only all that, but apparently they're so stupid as to not realize the amount of maintenance aircraft require. I've forgotten the numbers but it takes quite a few hours of maintenance for each hour a plane has been in the air. I doubt highly they have the tools let alone the brainpower to keep a modern plane flying.

It would be easier to laugh at ISIS and their delusions if they weren't such barbarians.

Actually it seems they have some ex-Iraqi air-force pilots, and (at least at as recently as October) had a few old Mig fighter jets taken from Syria.
As Isis (in its current form) pretty much started with a larger number of dudes who were kicked out of the Iraqi army in the de-baathification you do have quite a few people in ISIS with military training.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29660029
http://theaviationist.com/tag/iraqi-air-force/

Although your right about the maintenance. I would imagine parts would be a bit bitch to get too. Although maybe not if they snatch up spare parts when the got the plane or more likely if they are still in control of the military airport.
Think the main reason ISIS trying to get an air-force up is stupid is just because as far as I know currently America has pretty much complete control of the air, and I would imagine would have little trouble blowing an old Mig or two out of the sky.

Unless someone more familair with air-forces and combat plans wants to correct me on that, I'm going to assume this is purely a bullshit ISIS status thing rather than anything practical.

Volkerball posted:

Libya Dawn launched rockets at al-Sidra oil port from speedboats in an attempt to take it over. While they failed, some serious fires started, and now 5 oil tanks have gone up. Libya is asking Italy for help to extinguish them.

That really sucks. I would imagine Libya has enough to worry about at the moment with the collapse of the oil prices.

Edit:

Decided to look for some good news about Libya (hint: googling "good news Libya" is not a productive way to go about this)

Did find out Libyan Wings a new private Libyan funded international airline just received its secound airplane an Airbus A319 and expects to start operating shortly.

http://www.libyaherald.com/2014/12/27/libya-wings-takes-delivery-of-second-airbus/#axzz3N7a81bGB

That's pretty cool.

Also some UNHCR aid getting though to some of the regional areas.
http://www.libyaherald.com/2014/12/26/aid-reaches-displaced-families/#axzz3N7a81bGB

Although the article ends with

quote:

The UN reported in October that it needed an additional $35 million in donations to respond to the needs of the displaced in Libya. As of today, only two percent of that amount had been funded, making it the most underfunded appeal from the UN in all of 2014.

God drat it I was looking for some happy news :smith:

dr_rat fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Dec 27, 2014

# ? Dec 27, 2014 18:39

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

My Imaginary GF posted:

The mid-east could use monogamy with church hierarchy empowered to enforce its practice and banish polygamy, hth.

Honestly, what they should do is ban heterosexuality. Have some secret police there to enforce it. That'd cut the population down in twenty years or so and solve a lot of the problems.

# ? Dec 27, 2014 18:52

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Granted, in the sense of "Libya" I wonder if they mean the military or the rump parliament that is hiding out somewhere on the border?

Ardennes fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Dec 27, 2014

# ? Dec 27, 2014 19:11

a glitch: Jun 27, 2008; no wait stop; Soiled Meat

Sorry for the mobile link, but It looks like that story about that emo student kid joining Isis was bollocks.

# ? Dec 27, 2014 20:06

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

a glitch posted:

Sorry for the mobile link, but It looks like that story about that emo student kid joining Isis was bollocks.

Now you're going to tell me they don't wear diapers because they poop their pants from constant sodomy.

# ? Dec 27, 2014 22:01

Vernii: Dec 7, 2006

BlitzkriegOfColour posted:

Kill yourself if you think intergenerational capital accumulation is a good thing. 100 per cent death tax, IMHO, plus state controlled markets and state run businesses

Sorry to break it to you but communism lost. :jerkbag:

Was really great to see 60 new posts and think something interesting happened but no, its just a long boring derail about poly bullshit by some idiots.

# ? Dec 27, 2014 22:02

Best Friends: Nov 4, 2011

Vernii posted:

Sorry to break it to you but communism lost.

Was really great to see 60 new posts and think something interesting happened but no, its just a long boring derail about poly bullshit by some idiots.

The best thing was it wasn't just poly bullshit out of nowhere at Christmastime, it was extremely angry poly bullshit out of nowhere at Christmastime. Definitely some lovely, well-adjusted people exchanging thoughts and ideas.

# ? Dec 27, 2014 22:13

Mightypeon: Oct 10, 2013; Putin apologist- assume all uncited claims are from Russia Today or directly from FSB.

key phrases: Poor plucky little Russia, Spheres of influence, The West is Worse, they was asking for it.

Concerning the upcoming Moscow talks:

Russia is apperantly proposing a 2 step phase, first step are "consultations" between the "Syrian opposition to be tolerated by the regime" and the "Syrian opposition fighting the regime".
It could potentially mean that Russia attempts to transfer its influence in "Assad Syria" into influence in "Post Assad Syria", since some Syrian goverment officials were pretty butthurt about this .
The second step would then involve the Syrian goverment, other internal actors etc.

Things are still really in flux though, I have heard/read that the Kurds (which/whose Kurds?) could be invited at either the first or the second stage for example.

Officially, Russia is apperantly planning to get the non islamists opposition into one block willing to respect Russian demands. Since Russian demands propably dont go beyond "Keep our Naval base", "Dont murder Christians", "Dont murder Alawites" (the last two because Russia would loose some face, but not much sleep if it happens) this is propably possible.

Acceptable endgame for Russia apperantly includes a "Lebanon like ethno-religious compromise" (which, in Lebanon, proved to be surprisingly durable) situation for Syria as a whole. If that is true, it could well be acceptable for the West and/or Turkey and/or Iran.

The first stage (talking between different opposition groups) is propably to find out if the will for such a solution among groups on the ground exists in the first place.

Russia could perhaps make a play of getting the Alawite apparatus (not fully synonimous with Assad) to align with this goal, but that would depend on a bunch of things.

# ? Dec 27, 2014 22:22

eSports Chaebol: Feb 22, 2005; Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

Mightypeon posted:

Acceptable endgame for Russia apperantly includes a "Lebanon like ethno-religious compromise" (which, in Lebanon, proved to be surprisingly durable) situation for Syria as a whole. If that is true, it could well be acceptable for the West and/or Turkey and/or Iran.

"Surprisingly durable" is a heck of a euphemism here�and probably also the best conceivable outcome for Syria at this point :smith:

# ? Dec 27, 2014 22:33

Mightypeon: Oct 10, 2013; Putin apologist- assume all uncited claims are from Russia Today or directly from FSB.

key phrases: Poor plucky little Russia, Spheres of influence, The West is Worse, they was asking for it.

Considering the poo poo Lebanon has been through, i am continously amazed how comparatively stable their system is. I mean, just consider the destabilizing factors (Iran, Israel, Syria, the French and a bunch of other stuff), yet that compromise still seems to be working.

# ? Dec 28, 2014 01:15

A3th3r: Jul 27, 2013; success is a dream & achievements are the cream

FAUXTON posted:

To elaborate on this, they were running out of time trying to form an Islamic state in post-war Iraq (turned out nobody was really down for that without being threatened) and only showed up in Syria after glomming on to JaN shortly before rebranding to Daesh rather than AQI/ISI. No part of Daesh's origins trace back to Syria and if you go back to before they were a cohesive entity in Iraq it turns out they went to Iraq from Jordan. They wanted to be al-Qaeda in the sense that they wanted to be an envious decentralized network rather than a place with a headquarters but it turned out AQ was already running that table so by the time Iraq was in full-on civil war mode they were basically the AQ presence in Iraq. This is the group that was run by the jealousy-provoking Zarqawi before he got taken out.

Longevity is somewhat important in the sense that it gives you an estimate of their leadership's experience. In this case that experience would be with insurgency efforts and small-holding territorial operation. They're organized on an 'electronicsman' city mob scale, not statecraft, and it's already showing.

[citation needed]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/sunni-extremists-in-iraq-occupy-saddams-chemical-weapons-facility-1403190600

Al-Qaeda was headed by Osama Bin Laden & they bombed the Twin Towers in 2001. I remember what I was doing when the Twin Towers were bombed. We basically got the entire day off from school.

[post cut due to threats]

A3th3r fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Feb 27, 2015

# ? Dec 28, 2014 02:33

fade5: May 31, 2012; by exmarx

Mightypeon posted:

Considering the poo poo Lebanon has been through, I am continuously amazed how comparatively stable their system is. I mean, just consider the destabilizing factors (Iran, Israel, Syria, the French and a bunch of other stuff), yet that compromise still seems to be working.

Same, they even had a Civil War from 1975-1990 and still managed to put the country back together pretty well afterwards. Just looking at Lebanon's system of government you'd assume it's a house of cards that would fall at the slightest breeze, and yet it has worked remarkably well, especially compared to a lot of its neighbors.

Additional relevant content:

Here's a current map of the situation in Kobani via twitter. (Looks to be pretty accurate, and the situation is so fluid that any map is gonna have problems.) Bright Yellow is Kurdish controlled, no color is daesh controlled, and dark yellow is disputed territory. That dark yellow patch with the "raiding area" and Mishtenur/Mistenur/Mistanour Hill is of course where this happened back in October:

Yeah, daesh ain't gonna be able to take that hill for the foreseeable future. :black101:

# ? Dec 28, 2014 02:48

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

fade5 posted:

Yeah, daesh ain't gonna be able to take that hill for the foreseeable future.

There was supposedly a C&C under that hill.

# ? Dec 28, 2014 02:49

fade5: May 31, 2012; by exmarx

CommieGIR posted:

There was supposedly a C&C under that hill.

There was indeed. For those who aren't aware, here's the complete story behind that bombing.
http://blogs.afp.com/correspondent/?post/a-flurry-of-bombs-over-kobane#.VJ9nLP8DAPA

quote:

We go as near as possible and when we get there we see the IS fighters on the hill with their flag firmly planted on top. The sky reverberates with the sound of the coalition aircraft flying overhead. It's quite rare to see the planes and it's impossible to make out which countries they belong to but the sound of the engines is incessant. Bulent and I believe a strike could materialise at any time. The villagers allow us to clamber onto the roof of a house just a few hundred metres north of the hill. I set up my camera and start filming.

Barely 15 minutes later our prediction comes true: A flurry of bombs rain from the sky onto the hill. The sound is deafening and the hill is obscured by clouds of black smoke. The jihadists respond by firing heavy weapons. We don't know who they are targeting but it's too risky to remain perched on the roof, so we leave our vantage point and go indoors.

The next morning, the IS fighters are nowhere to be seen on the hill. They have been replaced by fighters who have planted a Kurdish flag.

And videos of the aftermath, courtesy of some dude on reddit:

Some dude named sylezjusz on reddit posted:

There were some fortified dugouts on the other side of that hill. Here's the aftermath from the morning after (NSFW) and the stuff Kurds managed to scoop out from those trenches. The hill also has some strategic value, and makes potential airdrops easier.

The videos are :nms:

as you would probably expect. :gonk:

There was a lot more to the strike that just taking out an ISIL flag, but it makes such a great visual of just what US airstrikes can do. :fuckoff:

fade5 fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Dec 28, 2014

# ? Dec 28, 2014 03:21

Gmaz: Apr 3, 2011; New DLC for Aoe2 is out: Dynasties of India

fade5 posted:

controlled, and dark yellow is disputed territory. That dark yellow patch with the "raiding area" and Mishtenur/Mistenur/Mistanour Hill is of course where this happened back in October:

The gif you posted happened at a different hill to the west, Tal Afar I think.

# ? Dec 28, 2014 12:08

MothraAttack: Apr 28, 2008

A3th3r posted:

[citation needed]

This SA D&D ME post needs a picture. You are utterly mistaken, and I'll prove it - Daesh is NOT the new nickname for Al-Qaeda in Iraq, they are the same people that were purportedly Ba'athists when Saddam was in power, and then they became Sunni extremists when the US was in power in Iraq. WSJ journalists say that Sunni extremists have occupied Saddam's chemical weapons facilities but have not successfully produced & sold any weapons with all of those bloody gory tools at their disposal. In the post-US-occupation era of Iraqi history, these people call themselves ISIS, & recruit with that in mind.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/sunni-extremists-in-iraq-occupy-saddams-chemical-weapons-facility-1403190600

'Daesh' is a nickname created by outside observers for ISIS in the Iraq/Kurdistan/Syria warzone, and is NOT al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda was headed by Osama Bin Laden & they bombed the Twin Towers in 2001. I remember what I was doing when the Twin Towers were bombed. We basically got the entire day off from school. As I understand it, al-Qaeda is now mostly in Africa, particularly in Chad & Ethiopia. If you've ever taken even a basic 'History of the Middle East Conflicts' lecture, you would understand these distinctions.

Dude get off your high horse because a lot of this is factually incorrect. ISIS is a successor group to Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad.

# ? Dec 28, 2014 12:14

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

Vernii posted:

Sorry to break it to you but communism lost.

Was really great to see 60 new posts and think something interesting happened but no, its just a long boring derail about poly bullshit by some idiots.

Best Friends posted:

The best thing was it wasn't just poly bullshit out of nowhere at Christmastime, it was extremely angry poly bullshit out of nowhere at Christmastime. Definitely some lovely, well-adjusted people exchanging thoughts and ideas.

Mods please rename thread: Extremely angry poly bullshit?!? On Christmastime?!?

Congrats for making the two worst posts in the thread by far, nobody cares about your weekly state of the thread review and the majority of the people on this planet don't even celebrate CHRISTMASTIME.

It's really shocking that these sort of posts aren't probatable but the post I'm currently making probably is.

# ? Dec 28, 2014 12:32

Baudolino: Apr 1, 2010; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Obama did nothing wrong, he can`t be blamed for lacking absolute knlowegde about the consequences of non-intervention.
I would rather the american president be too careful about using his military in other countries than the reverse. In hindsigth Obama`s choice has had some regrettable consequences but laying the blame for the barrel bombing at his feet goes too far. The syrian people failed to free themselves this is not our fault, supporting them more would have been a nice thing to do, but i refuse to accept that intervention in a civil war can ever be a moral imperative. The fact that the rebels naivly assumed that they would be given air-cover is on their heads entirely. Therefore Assad`s goverment and his allies are to blame for the barrel bombs and no one else.

Anyways it`s good to see Russia making use of it`s influence to negotiate a peace. Since Russia actully has some influence over Assad and there is reason to be hopeful. If a Lebanon style compromise can be reached that would amazing. Perhaps the Lebanese form of power sharing between etnhic groups can be a model for the whole middle east? Lavrov ( or whoever is in charge of the negotiations) would seriously deserve a nobel peace prize if he could pull that off.

# ? Dec 28, 2014 14:14

AllanGordon: Jan 26, 2010; by Shine

emanresu tnuocca posted:

Mods please rename thread: Extremely angry poly bullshit?!? On Christmastime?!?

Congrats for making the two worst posts in the thread by far, nobody cares about your weekly state of the thread review and the majority of the people on this planet don't even celebrate CHRISTMASTIME.

It's really shocking that these sort of posts aren't probatable but the post I'm currently making probably is.

Sorry did someone mentioning Christmas trigger you?

# ? Dec 28, 2014 14:15

Phlegmish: Jul 2, 2011

emanresu tnuocca posted:

Mods please rename thread: Extremely angry poly bullshit?!? On Christmastime?!?

Congrats for making the two worst posts in the thread by far, nobody cares about your weekly state of the thread review and the majority of the people on this planet don't even celebrate CHRISTMASTIME.

It's really shocking that these sort of posts aren't probatable but the post I'm currently making probably is.

Your post is far worse than either of the ones you quoted.

# ? Dec 28, 2014 14:30

Kaal: May 22, 2002; through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

Actually the majority of humans do celebrate Christmas, since in addition to the massive Christian population (1/3 of global population) it has significant popularity as a holiday even outside the Christian population. In the US, for instance, 80% of non-Christians also celebrate Christmas. Specifically, Christmas is increasingly popular in the heavily populated countries of India and China, where it is tied to the advent of cultural Westernization.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/12/23/christmas-also-celebrated-by-many-non-christians/

# ? Dec 28, 2014 15:22

I Killed GBS: Jun 2, 2011; by Lowtax

peta was victorious in the end. you fools.

# ? Dec 28, 2014 15:24

Cippalippus: Mar 31, 2007; Out for a ride, chillin out w/ a couple of friends. Going to be back for dinner

emanresu tnuocca posted:

Mods please rename thread: Extremely angry poly bullshit?!? On Christmastime?!?

Congrats for making the two worst posts in the thread by far, nobody cares about your weekly state of the thread review and the majority of the people on this planet don't even celebrate CHRISTMASTIME.

It's really shocking that these sort of posts aren't probatable but the post I'm currently making probably is.

Sorry to break it for you but the only people not celebrating Christmas in Europe are edgy atheists who also appear to be incredible loser virgin nerds, and I have few reasons to believe it's much different in other parts of the western world. Even the kebab shop guy who is Pakistani wished me a merry Christmas a week ago. Even my atheist uncle who, unlike you, gets laid a lot, wished me merry Christmas at the family dinner.

Mind you, I'd find perfectly normal to have non Christians not wish me a merry Christmas, it was just to put into perspective how loving delusional you are.

Volkerball posted:

Libya Dawn launched rockets at al-Sidra oil port from speedboats in an attempt to take it over. While they failed, some serious fires started, and now 5 oil tanks have gone up. Libya is asking Italy for help to extinguish them.

Interestingly, there is no mention of it in the Italian media.

# ? Dec 29, 2014 01:53

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Cippalippus posted:

Sorry to break it for you but the only people not celebrating Christmas in Europe are edgy atheists who also appear to be incredible loser virgin nerds, and I have few reasons to believe it's much different in other parts of the western world. Even the kebab shop guy who is Pakistani wished me a merry Christmas a week ago. Even my atheist uncle who, unlike you, gets laid a lot, wished me merry Christmas at the family dinner.

Mind you, I'd find perfectly normal to have non Christians not wish me a merry Christmas, it was just to put into perspective how loving delusional you are.

He's an Israeli Jew you pathetic garrulous moron. Israel isn't loving Christmas-crazy, for very obvious reasons.

How about you go visit Bethlehem on Easter and taunt an IDF soldier on the way? See how your attitude helps you there? :byewhore:

# ? Dec 29, 2014 02:01

Cippalippus: Mar 31, 2007; Out for a ride, chillin out w/ a couple of friends. Going to be back for dinner

What has taunting an Idf soldier got to do with anything I or he said?

# ? Dec 29, 2014 02:14

Willie Tomg: Feb 2, 2006

Cippalippus posted:

What has taunting an Idf soldier got to do with anything I or he said?

You told an israeli jew that he's a whiny virgin for not celebrating christmas and saying that not everyone celebrates christmas. You're being told to kill yourself via provocation and you don't realize why, but that obliviousness won't stop you from holding forth about culture and politics which is very funny in a similar sense that MIGF is also very very funny. It is important, and cool, to have standards of mockery because at the end of the day this is a comedy-themed discussion forum and the posters in it need material to riff on.

Your obliviousness in this exchange is very closely related to peoples' objections to your views elsewhere in the thread.

Willie Tomg fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Dec 29, 2014

# ? Dec 29, 2014 05:54

Cippalippus: Mar 31, 2007; Out for a ride, chillin out w/ a couple of friends. Going to be back for dinner

Nope, you got it all wrong. I told him he's an idiot for thinking that nobody celebrates Christmas, and that he's a virgin nerd because he has a Star Citizen avatar.

Tangentially, I said that everyone in Europe and the western world does it, and Israel isn't certainly in Europe.

Cippalippus fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Dec 29, 2014

# ? Dec 29, 2014 09:24

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

Tangentially you are an idiot who can't parse through four lines of text, much like a few other goons itt.

# ? Dec 29, 2014 10:56

BlitzkriegOfColour: Aug 22, 2010

Cippalippus posted:

Nope, you got it all wrong. I told him he's an idiot for thinking that nobody celebrates Christmas, and that he's a virgin nerd because he has a Star Citizen avatar.

Tangentially, I said that everyone in Europe and the western world does it, and Israel isn't certainly in Europe.

Israel very clearly is a contestant in Eurovision. Argument over.

e: btw, 1/3 of the world is Christian, but included in that are Syriacs, Coptics, Orthodox, Jehovah's, Mormons, etc, which quite evidently don't celebrate Christmas (or at least not at the same time as dumbshit Catholics and Protestants)

# ? Dec 29, 2014 14:17

Zedsdeadbaby: Jun 14, 2008; You have been called out, in the ways of old.

On that subject, gas the loving thread.

# ? Dec 29, 2014 15:06

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Zedsdeadbaby posted:

On that subject, gas the loving thread.

Burning it all down and starting over again isn't politically viable.

# ? Dec 29, 2014 15:15

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

Is hating on Christmas just because it exists this year's flavour of cool non-conformism.

# ? Dec 29, 2014 15:24

Spergin Morlock: Aug 8, 2009

BlitzkriegOfColour posted:

Israel very clearly is a contestant in Eurovision. Argument over.

e: btw, 1/3 of the world is Christian, but included in that are Syriacs, Coptics, Orthodox, Jehovah's, Mormons, etc, which quite evidently don't celebrate Christmas (or at least not at the same time as dumbshit Catholics and Protestants)

Not sure why you included Mormons in your list there, they quite evidently DO celebrate Christmas on December 25th. I think your evidence processing capabilities are on the fritz.

# ? Dec 29, 2014 15:40

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Can we at least make it about Christmas in the Middle East instead of talking about Mormons and Eurovision?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/24/christmas-iraq-isis_n_6335022.html

quote:

Christmas Celebrations Go Forward In Iraq, Despite Ongoing Threat Of ISIS
In a Christian refugee camp in northern Iraq, a special tent stands out as a reminder of those keeping the faith alive in the midst of persecution.

Refugees erected a tent for Jesus in preparation for the Christmas holiday, the celebration of which will likely be tinged with sadness as the Islamic State continues its attack on Christians, Yazidis and others in its path in Iraq and Syria who disagree with its ideology.

Even so, Canon Andrew White, who leads St. George�s Anglican Church in Baghdad, said in a recent HuffPost blog that there is still room for hope for Iraqi Christians celebrating the holiday. Despite the sadness and trauma imprinted on the hearts of many, Christmas offers a message about God's love that not even the Islamic State can wipe out.

"I will never forget the day in Baghdad when we had some visitors," White wrote.

quote:
They had come to see what it was really like for Christians in Iraq. They were so surprised by how happy the thousands of people were in our congregation. 'How can you be so happy when you are surrounded [by] suicide bombs, mortar�s rockets and such violence?' One of our young people answered the statement. 'You see when you have lost everything, Jesus is all you have got left.'

Post by Canon Andrew White.
White also serves as president of the Foundation for Relief and Reconciliation in the Middle East, which operates a medical clinic, food relief program and interfaith council of religious leaders, in addition to St. George's church.

The escalation of violence in the country has forced White to relocate in recent weeks, he said, and much of his time has been spent in Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus.

"Two thousand years after he first came, he is still everything to the people," White wrote in his blog post. "He is still everything to our Christians in Iraq and he can still be everything to us."

Pope Francis echoed these sentiments in a Dec. 21 Christmas letter to Christians in the Middle East, saying: "Our consolation and our hope is Christ himself."

The pontiff sent blessings to Christians in the regions as they met the Christmas holiday with hymns as well as "tears and sighs" and praised them for their enduring strength despite diminishing numbers:

quote:
Dear brothers and sisters, even though you may not be numerous, you play a significant role in the Church and in the countries where you live. The entire Church is close to you and supports you, with immense respect and affection for your communities and your mission. We will continue to assist you with our prayers and with every other means at our disposal.

But in Iraq, Christian faith comes with its own risks, said Jeremy Courtney, the executive director of Preemptive Love Coalition, a Baghdad-based health organization that provides training for Iraqi heart surgeons and nurses.

"As Iraqi Christians celebrate this Christmas in Baghdad, they gather so much like many of their early Christian forebears did: in between fear and isolation and hopeful gratitude, all keenly aware that identifying with Jesus 'the Christ' and his way of life could very well cost them everything," Courtney told HuffPost by email.

Not all Christians in Iraq identify with one another, PLC's communication director Matthew Willingham noted. Some refer to themselves as Christians in a political or ethnic sense, Willingham said, while others may identify as Assyrian or Chaldean, or as only Christian by birth.

Nonetheless, Christmas this year comes at a time when many faith groups in Baghdad, where Willingham lives and works, are united in solidarity against the Islamic State.

"Those originally from Baghdad (along with many Muslims) have also found a lot of joy in welcoming and serving those displaced by ISIS," Willingham told HuffPost by email. "I was just at a school this morning full of displaced Muslims (Shia Turkmen and Arabs) who received heaters from local Christians, and the day before that I was at a church where Muslims were providing for Christians. There�s quite a bit of cooperation that�s happening between the sects."

Patriarch Raphael Louis Sako, head of the Chaldean Catholic Church to which many Iraqi Christians belong, has urged people to pray and fast from Dec. 22 through Christmas Eve in solidarity with �displaced brothers and sisters, who are going through indescribable suffering.� He also suggested avoiding �worldly celebration� on Christmas and New Year�s days, according to Catholic World News.

"We fast for the liberation of Mosul and the villages of the Nineveh plains, so that peace and security will return to these areas, and everyone will be able to return to his or her home, job and school,� Sako said.

Christmas celebrations are going ahead in Baghdad and in refugee camps in northern Iraq, however. Willingham said many Christians in Baghdad will spend the day in one of several churches' dance halls, which will be open for the occasion with extra guards and checkpoints set up in the vicinity.

In the refugee camp in Erbil, an Iraqi city and the capital of the Kurdistan region in which many northern Iraqis sought refuge from the Islamic State, displaced Christians have set up makeshift holiday markets, in addition to the tent for Jesus mentioned above.

These refugees have some special reinforcements headed their way for Christmas, too, as Operation Christmas Child, a program run by American evangelist Franklin Graham and his Samaritan's Purse organization, recently airlifted 60,000 gift-filled shoeboxes to refugees in northern Iraq to lend a festive spirit to their holiday celebrations.

"These children will be reminded that there is a God who loves them. That is the point and the purpose of Operation Christmas Child, is to share the love of Jesus Christ," director Randy Riddle told The Christian Post. "We see it as opportunities to share the gospel and we want these children to know that they are loved by not only from people [all over the world] but there is a God who loves them, and that will be the message that these children will hear."

# ? Dec 29, 2014 15:57

Flavahbeast: Jul 21, 2001; Can't post for 4 hours!

steinrokkan posted:

Is hating on Christmas just because it exists this year's flavour of cool non-conformism.

we have always been at war with Christmas

# ? Dec 29, 2014 17:15

Kaal: May 22, 2002; through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

Chadderbox posted:

Not sure why you included Mormons in your list there, they quite evidently DO celebrate Christmas on December 25th. I think your evidence processing capabilities are on the fritz.

Indeed. In fact all of the religions on that list celebrate Christmas, they just do it differently. The Eastern Orthodox, for example, never adopted the Gregorian calendar and so they celebrate on a different day (Jan. 7th), but it's still December 25th according to the traditional Julian calendar that they use. Even Jehovah Witnesses often end up celebrating Christmas, and they object to all holidays: They just strip out all the religious elements and treat it as an opportunity for a winter family gathering.

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Israel isn't loving Christmas-crazy, for very obvious reasons.

Yeah why would Israel, home of the birthplace of Jesus, have significant celebrations on the day celebrating Jesus' birthday? Certainly they wouldn't take advantage of an obvious opportunity for religious pilgrimage and general tourism. :allears:

Kaal fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Dec 29, 2014

# ? Dec 29, 2014 17:40

Zedsdeadbaby: Jun 14, 2008; You have been called out, in the ways of old.

There was me thinking Jesus was born in Palestine.

# ? Dec 29, 2014 19:41

tsa: Feb 3, 2014

Willie Tomg posted:

You told an israeli jew that he's a whiny virgin for not celebrating christmas and saying that not everyone celebrates christmas. You're being told to kill yourself via provocation and you don't realize why, but that obliviousness won't stop you from holding forth about culture and politics which is very funny in a similar sense that MIGF is also very very funny. It is important, and cool, to have standards of mockery because at the end of the day this is a comedy-themed discussion forum and the posters in it need material to riff on.

Your obliviousness in this exchange is very closely related to peoples' objections to your views elsewhere in the thread.

Oh shut the gently caress up, Jesus you are whiny.

# ? Dec 29, 2014 19:48

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 08:14

Mightypeon: Oct 10, 2013; Putin apologist- assume all uncited claims are from Russia Today or directly from FSB.

key phrases: Poor plucky little Russia, Spheres of influence, The West is Worse, they was asking for it.

Meanwhile, my takeaway from the big Todenh�fer piece is that DAESH is indeed todays Bolsheviks of the early Russian civil war era.

In case you havent read it yet:
http://juergentodenhoefer.de/seven-impressions-of-a-difficult-journey/?lang=en

Going by precedent, the way to defeat them is to incite intra DAESH coups, bloodletting and purges before they got done enthusiastically murdering all of their opponents.

A difference is that DAESH is more cohesive then the early KPDSU, all of those shared massacres go a long way to establish mutual loyalty.

# ? Dec 30, 2014 00:29

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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