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Jack Gladney posted:The categorical thinking typical of conspiracy theories demands that everybody is some essential thing or that groups act with one mind and will. There's "the government," "the mainstream media," "scientists," "the UN," "big pharma," and "the Jews" Is it still conspiracy theory if you accept agents as separate from the systems in which they operate and allow for unanticipated chance occurance? Fast Eddie sold Hizzonah a bad batch to forestall the of an independent black machine in Chicago politics. Alternatively, Hizzonah was mismanaging the city and threatening to gently caress up a golden goose with multinational connections while also making the city look bad, so a lot of folk had a pressing motivation, the necessary connections, and the means to make sure Hizzonah got sent.
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Dec 27, 2014 08:00
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Dravinski posted:Thanks, I think I'll pick up Michael Barkun's book it looks really interesting. I wonder to what extent conspiracy theorists in the West are exposed to Jewish communities, from my personal experience (which is the greatest example obviously) hate comes from ignorance.
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Dec 27, 2014 12:51
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I've encountered a few people who have divided Jewish people into regular people who just have the Jewish faith. These are Jews, people they work with, buy from, sell too and generally interact with on a daily basis. Then there are the ZIONISTS who are the Soros, Rothschilds, Bilderburgs (ignore that this is just the name of a hotel) and the other evil Jews that run the world secretly. It's not Morty Shineberg who works in accounting's fault that there are people in is religion that are inhuman monsters that wish only to enslave all humanity and destroy christian culture. So its TOTALLY NOT RACIST. That's how they justified ranting about Protocols level crap and not considering themselves buying into ancient antisemitism. Sorta like when a right wing shitbag goes "Hey, I don't hate black people, i just hate those black people who use my tax dollars to buy rims and crack and squirt out a dozen kids. Totally not racist".
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Dec 27, 2014 19:39
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Luigi's Discount Porn Bin posted:No worries. Barkun's book might not have much about antisemitism in it - it's been a little while since I read it, but IIRC the bulk of it was written pre-9/11, so it has a lot on the Oklahoma City style antigovernment militia conspiracism and less about the post-9/11 Truther-influenced stuff. Still some fantastic stuff in there though, and it holds up very well even given the newer developments in the conspiracy world. I've been looking for more literature on the subject as a whole anyway, so I think it'll be an interesting read regardless. So I'm glad you tipped me off about it. I haven't found an awful lot on antisemitic culture within conspiracy groups to be honest, but I find the subject fascinating. I'd like to know what goes on in the mind of someone who believes the international Jewish theory and why Jewish people are being singled out in this regard.
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Dec 27, 2014 20:20
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computer parts posted:There was literally a Law & Order episode from like 1997 about an anti-Jewish gang so no it's been around for a while. I refer you to the post in which I specified I was not talking about all antisemitism ever. QuarkJets posted:If that's even the case, which I'm not convinced that it is, then it's only because Internet usage is more prevalent now than it was a decade ago. Eh, I don't exactly have research to back it up*, so I don't blame you for not being convinced, and internet usage being more prevalent is definitely a possible explanation. But I do think there's something to the fact that people not extremely interested in Israeli policies know the JIDF acronym and the fact that A. Wyatt Mann cartoons are a meme. Really my idea is just that antisemitism has recently increased currency among young people and that the internet has played a part in that. *Although I would be interested in seeing the article Jack Gladney mentioned.
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Dec 27, 2014 22:44
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site posted:I probably shouldn't but I find the irony of this pretty hilarious. It only dropped off in your age cohort, because you and your peers grew up. Teenagers still use it.
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Dec 27, 2014 23:02
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Jazerus posted:It only dropped off in your age cohort, because you and your peers grew up. Teenagers still use it.
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Dec 28, 2014 04:28
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Sharkie posted:I refer you to the post in which I specified I was not talking about all antisemitism ever. I'm still looking, but I may have confused two articles, one of them from the popular press. There's one about using South Park to discuss social issues that touches on its anti-semitism--"South Park and Society: Institutional and Curricular Implications of Popular Culture in the Classroom"--and a number of academic articles about the show's apparent anti-semitism. However, there's also this somewhat silly opinion piece from an English teenager discussing his sister's love for Cartman that looks very familiar: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/antisemitism-in-the-playground-1067983.html I may have combined this op-ed piece with the article on using South Park in the classroom in my memory since I read them both as part of the same research session several years ago. I'm sorry to have probably allowed my memory to create a folk demon.
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Dec 28, 2014 07:54
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Tias posted:anti-semitism and conspiracy theories are often deeply entwined, this much I know. Often it's couched in cute dog whistle terms like "international bankers", but it's clearly the jews who team up with the illuminati to put flouride in your chemtrails! Great straw-man. I'm pretty sure the fluoride poison in your water is coming straight from German chemical companies, probably the same ones that supported the nazis. For the record, WW1 and WW2 were both fought against Germany, Germany won the world cup in 2014, and Germany is pissed at the US for illegal spying and torture of German citizens. Ironic that in people's attempts to dis-credit conspiracy theorists, they run themselves completely blind. Of course some people are crazy. That doesn't mean you should just watch Conan and jack off every day. Do you think that fluoride is not poisonous? We know it is. If you took high school chemistry, you know fluoride is more electronegative than literally every other element. Just look it up for five seconds. Keep straw-manning though. Seriously, can you find a post in the last 30 that is quoting someone real? There are all just straw-mans making up stuff that is easy to refute. You guys can't debate poo poo. All you can do is straw-man.
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Dec 28, 2014 08:45
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Wait. How the gently caress does the World Cup come into this? We won that poo poo fair and square.  Also what? Germany orchestrated WWI and lost the majority of its male population and ruined its economy to drug people in the US 60+years later? What?
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Dec 28, 2014 08:54
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It was cool when Kennedy aquiesced to Johnson's plan to murder him. Only a Kennedy would agree to martyr himself for the righteous cause of social progress.
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Dec 28, 2014 08:57
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The Titanic disaster never happened. You can prove this for yourself in your own kitchen. The Titanic was made out of steel. You should have a steel hammer available, if not, you may have steel utensils. Failing that, while silver is many times softer than steel, you can use your silver utensils to make an even stronger point. Take some ice cubes and smash them with your steel hammer (or other improvised tool). QED motherfuckers! A thing made out of ice couldn't sink something made out of steel. WAKE UP!
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Dec 28, 2014 08:57
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Shbobdb posted:The Titanic disaster never happened. You can prove this for yourself in your own kitchen. The Titanic was made out of steel. You should have a steel hammer available, if not, you may have steel utensils. Failing that, while silver is many times softer than steel, you can use your silver utensils to make an even stronger point. Take some ice cubes and smash them with your steel hammer (or other improvised tool). QED motherfuckers! A thing made out of ice couldn't sink something made out of steel. WAKE UP! it is similarly easy to prove that the Moon is a holographic projection constructed by the Government. Scientists say the moon's gravity causes our planet's tides. The moon is a round object, much like a baseball. Fill your bathtub with water, take a baseball, and hold it above the tub. No tides. QED
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Dec 28, 2014 09:01
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Xiahou Dun posted:Wait. Wow great straw-man. No. Not you, either. It's the same companies that supported the nazis and never went out of business. They continued their agenda. The German economy was in ruins prior to the wars and the wars saved it, really. So, Germany orchestrated WW1 for the sake of making a few companies a lot of money. The people of Germany wanted war because there were getting pissed on so hard financially. Germany still produces highly advanced weapons and chemicals. It worked. The world cup: my fault for mentioning that. I don't know what it has to do with anything, really. It just shows that Germany is a strong country still, despite losing WW1 and WW2 this century. AddMEonFacebook fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Dec 28, 2014 |
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Dec 28, 2014 09:09
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So you brought up a random point for no reason. Kay? Why even mention football then? And you really don't understand German history. Like at all. I can't even contradict you without just recapitulating what actually happened you're so wrong. What's your thesis? Edit : yes, we're good at soccer. And? Should we also fear Brazil and Holland? How does the US being awful factor into this? Xiahou Dun fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Dec 28, 2014 |
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Dec 28, 2014 09:14
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Xiahou Dun posted:So you brought up a random point for no reason. Kay? Why even mention football then? I guess my thesis is that WW1 and WW2 could have been avoided if Germany didn't exist. or: The two major world wars of the past century were focused around German aggression. I don't give a copeck about sports. I already apologized for making a point of it. AddMEonFacebook fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Dec 28, 2014 |
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Dec 28, 2014 09:17
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AddMEonFacebook posted:I guess my thesis is that WW1 and WW2 could have been avoided if Germany didn't exist. or: The two major world wars of the past century were focused around German aggression. "History would have transpired differently if the global landscape were wildly and arbitrarily different": a useful and controversial thesis.
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Dec 28, 2014 09:20
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PupsOfWar posted:"History would have transpired differently if the global landscape were wildly and arbitrarily different": a useful and controversial thesis. keep straw-manning quote:Should we also fear Brazil and Holland? Probably. AddMEonFacebook fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Dec 28, 2014 |
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Dec 28, 2014 09:21
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AddMEonFacebook posted:keep straw-manning Do you know what a strawman argument is, or are you just namedropping the concept in a misguided effort to sound educated?
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Dec 28, 2014 09:24
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Malleum posted:Do you know what a strawman argument is, or are you just namedropping the concept in a misguided effort to sound educated? It's when you make your opponent out to have a really weak argument so you look better when you make a point to refute a weak argument. In addition to constant straw-manning, you guys are also really good at ad-homs - or personal attacks to deflect the issue. It can work on the weak-minded really well. I don't blame you for using under-handed tactics, but if you're trying to actually convince me of anything, you're going to have to use some stronger logic than that. AddMEonFacebook fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Dec 28, 2014 |
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Dec 28, 2014 09:26
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AddMEonFacebook posted:keep straw-manning That was a very accurate paraphrase of what you said, man. Maybe don't lecture internet forums about their lack of debate prowess until you have learned some of the basics of rhetoric, such as "don't waste time trying to prove vacuous statements"
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Dec 28, 2014 09:28
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That's not straw-manning. You said "major world conflict would've been different if one the nations didn't exist". No loving poo poo. It also wouldn't have happened without Austria-Hungary, Russia, France, no I'm not listing every nation, and the invention of the railway just off the top of my head. I'm not trying to misunderstand your point, but you're not actually explaining it. (Also, seriously, you do know basic German history, right? Like. What???) And no, you get poo poo for making a stupid comment. You don't like football whatever, but then shut the gently caress up if you're using it to advance an argument. Edit: so if we should fear Brazil's soccer "prowess"* does that mean the US is neutered? I'm not straw-manning ; I'm investigating the predictions you make. *7 v 1 you fucks! Suck it! Xiahou Dun fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Dec 28, 2014 |
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Dec 28, 2014 09:28
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Xiahou Dun posted:That's not straw-manning. I really wasn't using it to advance a point.
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Dec 28, 2014 09:29
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Using what? Be specific.
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Dec 28, 2014 09:32
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AddMEonFacebook posted:It's when you make your opponent out to have a really weak argument so you look better when you make a point to refute a weak argument. You're confusing hyperbole with the strawman fallacy. Quit doing that. But please, explain to the thread how you believe that the Unification of Germany impacted the stability of Europe and the policies of Germany's neighbors. And also please explain how things would be different if we had a hundred German micro-states instead of the Germany we have now. I for one am actually kind of interested in your historical analysis.
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Dec 28, 2014 09:33
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The world cup point was rather inert, I mean. It's not part of my argument at all. How many times do I have to say I was in poor form mentioning it for you to shut up about it? Please go ahead and enlighten me on why Germany wasn't to blame for WW1 and WW2. you might be able to, but then please explain how German companies reformed after the wars and stopped producing tanks and guns, and how they stopped their chemical warfare program, oh wait... I'm right and they never did. AddMEonFacebook fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Dec 28, 2014 |
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Dec 28, 2014 09:34
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Malleum posted:You're confusing hyperbole with the strawman fallacy. Quit doing that. No I'm not. Hyperbole is a literary word that is a synonym for exaggeration. You're an idiot.
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Dec 28, 2014 09:35
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wait so gavrilo princip was in bayer's pocket is what you're saying
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Dec 28, 2014 09:36
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D&D apparently needs a whole thread on fallacies. AT least I de-railed this from the antisemitism straw-manning. The whole last page is just people posting poo poo like: people think jews do everything, how dumb! Xiahou Dun posted:*7 v 1 you fucks! Suck it! AddMEonFacebook fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Dec 28, 2014 |
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Dec 28, 2014 09:43
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So you have no idea why WWI started, do you? And how that (sort of kind of enh) destroyed the Weimar Republic and let Hitler have power to start WWII? Just being clear here. Also. Excuse me? You're making positive claims, bub. Burden of proof is all yours. Belgium makes more guns than Germany. Belgium I keep mocking you for not knowing football because it's the most obvious example of you having no clue what you're talking about. The vast majority of the German economy is green energy and recycling for gently caress's sake you Dummkopf.
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Dec 28, 2014 09:45
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Xiahou Dun posted:So you have no idea why WWI started, do you? And how that (sort of kind of enh) destroyed the Weimar Republic and let Hitler have power to start WWII? Just being clear here. Germany gets great green energy and brand new technology while the US is trapped in the 60s, energy technology-wise. I'm stating facts.
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Dec 28, 2014 09:47
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And this is a relevant point because...? C'mon buddy. If you're gonna be a logic nazi*, you gotta play by your own rules. *I teach logic at college.
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Dec 28, 2014 09:50
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AddMEonFacebook posted:Germany gets great green energy and brand new technology while the US is trapped in the 60s, energy technology-wise. Using your logic, because Chiquita Bananas are still in business after the Banana Wars the US is responsible for every ill ever suffered by anyone in Central and South America. Do you not see the problem here?
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Dec 28, 2014 09:59
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Malleum posted:This is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. You have claimed that Germany started both World Wars and your proof has been German arms manufacturing. Can you name a single German company that was building tanks in 1946? Can you name a single division raised in immediate-postwar West Germany? There is a problem of confusing a countries' business interest with its political interests, I think. It's more of a limitation of language.
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Dec 28, 2014 10:02
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=Xiahou Dun posted:And this is a relevant point because...? I'm not trying to lead you to any conclusions. That would be too much work. I'm just trying to get you to question your premises. I know you would rather always believe what you hear and see on TV, and what you are told in school, but it's a more enlightened man who questions these sources. Also we were talking about flouride in the water. Even if it's not a currently active foreign chemical warfare program, (I believe it is) it's well known that fluoridation was extensively used in concentration camps. quote:Yes, fluoride was used in Nazi Concentration camps and the gulags in Siberia to make prisoners docile and easier to control. It is also absorbed through the skin when bathing, showering, or swimming in fluoridated water. You absorb through the tissues of your mouth when brushing your teeth. You don't have to swallow it. Cooking with fluoride in water concentrates it in food and beverages. You can't cook it out. Only 50% of it can be excretes by the body so it is a cumulative toxin leading to many health problems. Twenty-four studies have also shown it lowers IQ's in children.
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Dec 28, 2014 10:02
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The Mouse That Roared was a good book
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Dec 28, 2014 10:04
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AddMEonFacebook posted:There is a problem of confusing a countries' business interest with its political interests, I think. It's more of a limitation of language.
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Dec 28, 2014 10:06
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The best way to get me to do that is with logical argumentation and you refuse to do that. Here. It's me. We're logic bros. Give me your hot let statement. Stop dancing around the point. (Also, seriously. gently caress you with this open your eyes poo poo. I'm wrapping up a PhD  )
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Dec 28, 2014 10:07
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Malleum posted:You still have yet to explain how the existence of Nazi companies after the Nazi collapse implies that Germany is responsible for both World Wars. This isn't a limitation of language, it's you failing to make any kind of coherent argument. It's commonly held here, in the United States, that Germany is responsible for the wars through acts of aggression. In WW1, the invasion of France of Belgium, and in WW2, the invasion of Poland and France. I didn't think I really had to mention that. I feel like I'm teaching second grade and you're getting a phd?
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Dec 28, 2014 10:12
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Xiahou Dun posted:The best way to get me to do that is with logical argumentation and you refuse to do that. It's not easy to wake up. It's just like waking up in the morning and having to go to work. Noone really wants to wake up, but you know you have to if you want to survive. I hope you die, though. I don't really care if you wake up or not.
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Dec 28, 2014 10:14
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