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That's Hotei.
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Dec 30, 2014 00:39
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 07:58 |
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Disinterested posted:Also, please tell me you are loving with that guy with the Husserl post. I know that Husserl is often depicted as enemy of nominalism, but I think that in Ideas he makes strong case for ideas not being objects, as an essence of an object is only held in consciousness, where it obtains meaning. That seems to be a fundamental obstacle to claiming the existence of universals, no?
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Dec 30, 2014 00:48
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I think your reasoning is sound, though I never much enjoyed Husserl or phenomenology. Fundamentally, I think a universal must need to be self-sufficient to be properly called such - no need for mental actualisation. I would assume you are not in agreement with Husserl given you appear to be a natural law theologian; you come off quite often as a full blown Platonic 'realist' (I have loving always hated that that school of thought is called realist in the anglophone tradition). I suspect a lot of Asia is going more Christian because a lot of it is opening up more to $$$, foreigners and Westernisation. Disinterested fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Dec 30, 2014 |
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Dec 30, 2014 00:56
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Actually I feel more closely related to Husserl, but I love to argue from Platonic positions because I find them fascinating and quite often unfairly ridiculed.
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Dec 30, 2014 01:07
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steinrokkan posted:Kyrie mode: Heidegger's success in Asia returns us to the recently discussed topic of Christianity basing the validity of its faith on persuasiveness. By persuading Asian scholars to value his Christian roots over their own Buddhist and Daoist tradition, Heidegger has lived up to this claim and has proven that Christianity is superior to other religions due to its philosophical expedience that obsoletes other philosophical systems.
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Dec 30, 2014 01:43
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Nessus posted:What was Heidegger's success in Asia, exactly, or is that the joke Perhaps unsurprisingly he was very popular in fascist Japan.
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Dec 30, 2014 01:46
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Disinterested posted:Perhaps unsurprisingly he was very popular in fascist Japan.
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Dec 30, 2014 01:47
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Nessus posted:What was Heidegger's success in Asia, exactly, or is that the joke http://www.stonehill.edu/files/resources/capobianco-martin-heideggers-thinking.pdf E: Reducing H's influence to "a Nazi preaching to Nazis" is unfair both to him and to his followers.
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Dec 30, 2014 01:50
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steinrokkan posted:E: Reducing H's influence to "a Nazi preaching to Nazis" is unfair both to him and to his followers. I'm aware of that, although I don't think his popularity in fascist Japan was just a coincidence either (and neither do a few historians of pre-war Japan). Don't believe it, but don't disbelieve it either is the answer. Although we are really way the gently caress off topic at this point. quote:Actually I feel more closely related to Husserl, but I love to argue from Platonic positions because I find them fascinating and quite often unfairly ridiculed. I mean, there really is no shortage at all of Christian neo-platonists, do you like any of them?
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Dec 30, 2014 01:55
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Disinterested posted:I mean, there really is no shortage at all of Christian neo-platonists, do you like any of them? I don't really keep up with living authors (sadly - philosophy isn't my primary subject so it's hard to find time for contemporaries when there are so many classics) but I've always respected Maritain as far as last century's authors go, mostly because he wasn't afraid to venture into political philosophy. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Dec 30, 2014 |
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Dec 30, 2014 02:12
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How much of the Bible do we have to keep to make sure we're really getting the nitty gritty of God's word? Do we have to keep stuff like the creation myth that is incongruous with an empirical understanding of reality or can we get rid of that? Jesus came back and cleared some stuff up like God softening his stance on wearing poly-cotton blend while eating a lobster dinner but I guess the gay stuff had to stay. What about Adam and Eve and the talking snake, is that super necessary? What about Noah's big boat? I heard some people super have an idea of where that is and you can give them some money and they'll totally find it. How much does grandma have to fork over to some ratfuck huckster to make sure he can get on the news and puke out some apologetics? How many more conmen do we have to elect because ~Oh Lawd they've heard the Word!~ I'm really glad there's so much time, effort, and money spent trying to make sure God's Holy Word stays in the public discourse so we all remember to condemn whores, keep evilution out of textbooks, and understand that poor people are poor because they are spiritually polluted. Christianity in America is poison.
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Dec 30, 2014 06:41
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Potential BFF posted:Christianity in America is poison. Preaching to the choir. /pun intended.
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Dec 30, 2014 06:42
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Potential BFF posted:How much of the Bible do we have to keep to make sure we're really getting the nitty gritty of God's word? Do we have to keep stuff like the creation myth that is incongruous with an empirical understanding of reality or can we get rid of that? Jesus came back and cleared some stuff up like God softening his stance on wearing poly-cotton blend while eating a lobster dinner but I guess the gay stuff had to stay. What about Adam and Eve and the talking snake, is that super necessary? What about Noah's big boat? I heard some people super have an idea of where that is and you can give them some money and they'll totally find it. How much does grandma have to fork over to some ratfuck huckster to make sure he can get on the news and puke out some apologetics? How many more conmen do we have to elect because ~Oh Lawd they've heard the Word!~ I'm really glad there's so much time, effort, and money spent trying to make sure God's Holy Word stays in the public discourse so we all remember to condemn whores, keep evilution out of textbooks, and understand that poor people are poor because they are spiritually polluted.
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Dec 30, 2014 06:45
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Potential BFF posted:Do we have to keep stuff like the creation myth that is incongruous with an empirical understanding of reality or can we get rid of that? You forgot to mention there's two mutually exclusive creation stories in the same book, let alone occasional references that seem to point to a third incompatible creation story having once existed. D- try harder next time.
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Dec 30, 2014 06:45
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcRqMxzig1g If you ever want to kind of get an understanding of how Evangelical Christians in America operate in the states? This is the documentary for you. Note how when Interviewed? Falwell acts like any sort of typical politician or someone who's a ceo of a major company. It's really all some bizarre quest for power and control of the state.
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Dec 30, 2014 06:51
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Nintendo Kid posted:You forgot to mention there's two mutually exclusive creation stories in the same book, let alone occasional references that seem to point to a third incompatible creation story having once existed. D- try harder next time. I dunno, that would suggest that God wasn't 100% on point when he passed it down and that seems pretty blasphemous to me dude.
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Dec 30, 2014 06:56
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The devil can break my body, but not my spirit. Nothing he does can stop the truth from being true. Let's start with this squabble over the meaning of ethics and morality. Did any of you think to maybe consult the dictionary on this? The words are synonyms. Disagree all you like! But in the world of philosophy, which I know a thing or two about, the words are synonymous. "Ethics" and "Moral philosophy" mean the exact same thing. No notable philosopher (prior to the pomo era) has drawn any kind of distinction between them. Go read the Wikipedia article on ethics and see if it suggests any kind of separation. The suggestion that there is a difference is itself a post-modern, relativist attempt to disrupt the idea of ethics and morality, and I refuse it. The Church, post-Vatican II, explicitly rejects relativism and says it as one of the major moral problems today. I'll stick with tradition. Now, what's this about China? Saying Christianity has declined post-WW2? Christianity has been rapidly growing in China, despite persecution, at a faster clip than any time in history, to the extent that China is predicted to become the most Christian nation. There's presently estimated at over 100 million Christians in China.
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Dec 30, 2014 14:40
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Thank Mithra, someone who actually believes in The Lord is back.Kyrie eleison posted:Let's start with this squabble over the meaning of ethics and morality. Did any of you think to maybe consult the dictionary on this? I don't know where you're getting this, exactly. You're right to say that the two are related - and in fact the word moral comes from the word ethics. But there is a small difference in usage which implies a slight difference in meaning, even if that difference isn't worth over-emphasising. Just like it is acceptable to use the word 'freedom' and the word 'liberty' more or less interchangeably, even if they are not 100.00% identical. I do agree that trying to drive a big wedge between the two things is inherently stupid. quote:The Church, post-Vatican II, explicitly rejects relativism and says it as one of the major moral problems today. I'll stick with tradition. I'm with Nietzsche on this one. It's your own church's stupid fault! Kyrie eleison posted:There's presently estimated at over 100 million Christians in China. [Citation Needed]. I haven't seen a number that large estimated, and all of the data is incredibly unreliable. Noticeably, wikipedia says: quote:Similarly, missionary researcher Tony Lambert has highlighted that an estimate of "one hundred million Chinese Christians" was already being spread by American Christian media in 1983, and has been further exaggerated, through a chain of misquotations, in the 2000s.[60]
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Dec 30, 2014 14:52
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Kyrie eleison posted:The devil can break my body, but not my spirit. Nothing he does can stop the truth from being true. See, this is what gets me: They always pop up with spiels about 'Truth' but don't even comprehend the idea that in order to have truth it must be supported by something.
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Dec 30, 2014 14:57
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Dictionary:Morals posted:A person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do. Dictionary: Ethics posted:The rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.: One is personal and the other societal.
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Dec 30, 2014 15:11
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Disinterested posted:I'm with Nietzsche on this one. It's your own church's stupid fault! How can upholding an objective morality and crushing all objections quality as "relativist"? You can thank the Reformation. quote:[Citation Needed]. I haven't seen a number that large estimated, and all of the data is incredibly unreliable. I can't verify that latter claim (about 1983) online. I'm willing to accept a lower estimate, though, perhaps the Pew estimate of 67 million. Who What Now posted:One is personal and the other societal. Not in my dictionary, dictionary.com
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Dec 30, 2014 15:16
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Kyrie eleison posted:How can upholding an objective morality and crushing all objections quality as "relativist"? You can thank the Reformation. Your moral system has failed - nothing has replaced it. That's what you get! (Nietzsche actually says you get nihilism and not relativism, but whatever).
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Dec 30, 2014 15:43
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Disinterested posted:Your moral system has failed - nothing has replaced it. That's what you get! (Nietzsche actually says you get nihilism and not relativism, but whatever). Kyrie's never actually read Nietzsche.
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Dec 30, 2014 15:44
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Who What Now posted:Kyrie's never actually read Nietzsche. So nobody has passed on the news that God is dead? No wonder this thread is so loving long.
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Dec 30, 2014 15:45
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Disinterested posted:Your moral system has failed - nothing has replaced it. That's what you get! (Nietzsche actually says you get nihilism and not relativism, but whatever). It has not failed. Who What Now posted:Kyrie's never actually read Nietzsche. Yes I have. Why do you make these assumptions?
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Dec 30, 2014 15:51
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Kyrie eleison posted:It has not failed. It doesn't seem to serve the needs of the majority of the world's people. Even in areas where Christianity has historically been strongly followed, it is in decline.
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Dec 30, 2014 15:58
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Kyrie eleison posted:Christianity has been rapidly growing in China, despite persecution, at a faster clip than any time in history, to the extent that China is predicted to become the most Christian nation. There's presently estimated at over 100 million Christians in China. Isn't that a bad thing, given that you earlier said there'd only be a few Christians left when the Lord returned?
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Dec 30, 2014 16:04
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OwlFancier posted:It doesn't seem to serve the needs of the majority of the world's people. Even in areas where Christianity has historically been strongly followed, it is in decline. It is the only thing that can serve their needs. The people are not spiritually fulfilled. Nietzsche was hubristic to think he could replace Christianity with a philosophy of his own making. Such an idea is of the devil. Godlessness will appear to be victorious before the last day. Antichrist will lead the earth, and Christians will be persecuted. Few will remain. But then Christ will return, and the final judgment will be carried out. Rappaport posted:Isn't that a bad thing, given that you earlier said there'd only be a few Christians left when the Lord returned? It cannot be a bad thing that more souls are saved prior to the end. It does delay the end, though.
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Dec 30, 2014 16:07
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Kyrie eleison posted:It cannot be a bad thing that more souls are saved prior to the end. It does delay the end, though. How could God's will be delayed?
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Dec 30, 2014 16:08
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Rappaport posted:How could God's will be delayed? God's will is not delayed. He already knows what will happen. It is evidently his will that China have more Christians. But the end comes later than it would have otherwise.
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Dec 30, 2014 16:11
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Kyrie eleison posted:God's will is not delayed. He already knows what will happen. It is evidently his will that China have more Christians. But the end comes later than it would have otherwise. You remember that 'Truth' thing you were talking about? How about you provide some evidence to make this statement 'True', specifically concerning God's will.
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Dec 30, 2014 16:12
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Kyrie eleison posted:God's will is not delayed. He already knows what will happen. It is evidently his will that China have more Christians. But the end comes later than it would have otherwise. "Otherwise" refers to things that can not be, as they would be against God's will. It seems you consider many things against God's will. Perhaps you should pray and ask for forgiveness?
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Dec 30, 2014 16:14
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Kyrie eleison posted:It is the only thing that can serve their needs. The people are not spiritually fulfilled. One might argue that claiming that your ideology cannot actually be criticized therefore it's winning, invalidates said claim a little?
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Dec 30, 2014 16:14
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Rappaport posted:"Otherwise" refers to things that can not be, as they would be against God's will. It seems you consider many things against God's will. Perhaps you should pray and ask for forgiveness? You're being intentionally obtuse, so I'm adding you to ignore.
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Dec 30, 2014 16:15
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Kyrie eleison posted:It cannot be a bad thing that more souls are saved prior to the end. It does delay the end, though. With an increasing global population, doesn't delaying the end (which will occur when there are fewer Christians) mean that a greater and greater number of sinners are lost the longer it is delayed?
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Dec 30, 2014 16:17
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Kyrie eleison posted:You're being intentionally obtuse, so I'm adding you to ignore. Oh yeah, I forgot about this: Censorship is popular with Kyrie. Real Christian.
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Dec 30, 2014 16:18
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CheesyDog posted:With an increasing global population, doesn't delaying the end (which will occur when there are fewer Christians) mean that a greater and greater number of sinners are lost the longer it is delayed? Yes, but they all deserve it. CommieGIR posted:Oh yeah, I forgot about this: Censorship is popular with Kyrie. Censorship is traditionally supported by the Church, in cases of obscenity or heresy. Also an essential Platonic idea, and by essential I mean he thought it was absolutely necessary that media and ideas be tightly controlled to encourage the strength of the nation-state. Anti-censorship is a modern liberal value, and it contributes more than anything else to cultural decline.
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Dec 30, 2014 16:25
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Kyrie eleison posted:God's will is not delayed. He already knows what will happen. It is evidently his will that China have more Christians. But the end comes later than it would have otherwise. Does that mean God has willed that the Czech and French stopped being majority Catholic? Since you claim to know what is and is not God's will, I figure you may as well answer a few other questions since you're already here.
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Dec 30, 2014 16:25
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Kyrie eleison posted:You're being intentionally obtuse, so I'm adding you to ignore. Anathema!
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Dec 30, 2014 16:26
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Kyrie eleison posted:Censorship is traditionally supported by the Church, in cases of obscenity or heresy. Also an essential Platonic idea, and by essential I mean he thought it was absolutely necessary that media be tightly controlled to encourage the strength of the nation-state. Anti-censorship is a modern liberal value, and it contributes more than anything else to cultural decline. Don't take this the wrong way, but you are a loving moron if you think this is true. Please regale us with the Platonic solids and how knowledge should be restricted to the elite.
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Dec 30, 2014 16:26
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