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Nines isn't trustworthy because "Nines" killed Grout, and Rosa didn't realize it was a shapeshifter. Strauss because Camarilla, but Lacroix is a liability.
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Jan 1, 2015 12:48
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mauman posted:Essentially because Nines, while well meaning, is ultimately using you (just like everybody else, except the two mentioned by Rosa). Nines might get involved in Kindred politics, but there's a big difference in approach between him and the other and he doesn't use you. He's open about his intentions and gets people to follow him out of choice rather than through threats or trickery. He leads the anarchs because the anarchs look to him to lead, not because he's old enough that it's his turn or because he was given an eight foot tall completely obedient Sheriff to kill anyone that disobeys him.
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Jan 1, 2015 13:21
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team overhead smash posted:Nines might get involved in Kindred politics, but there's a big difference in approach between him and the other and he doesn't use you. That's one way to look at it I guess. I disagree, but whatever 
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Jan 1, 2015 13:26
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Omobono posted:Nines isn't trustworthy because "Nines" killed Grout, and Rosa didn't realize it was a shapeshifter.
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Jan 1, 2015 13:29
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I like Nines. He reminds me of Theo Bell, the Brujah Archon -- so consumed with his cause that he doesn't really have time for the petty backstabbing bullshit endemic to most vampires. For a different character, who'd had a different couple of weeks, he'd be my favourite pick by far. But a Ventrue is always going to have a hellish time in with blue-collar anarchs.
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Jan 1, 2015 14:47
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Ghostwoods posted:But a Ventrue is always going to have a hellish time in with blue-collar anarchs. Even a Ventrue who's distanced themselves from the whole generic-camarilla-ventrue image? Does that even happen, though?
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Jan 1, 2015 17:09
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gatz posted:Even a Ventrue who's distanced themselves from the whole generic-camarilla-ventrue image? Does that even happen, though? Well, there is no absolute; it's a game, so everything is at the whim of the GM/players. But in general, bigotry is bigotry. A long-haired atheist in the bible belt is going to get hassle from people who don't know him, no matter how much his pals know he's a good guy. Plus, VTM vampires become kinda static in their mental architecture when they change, for the same reasons that Toreador hardly ever manage to continue being innovative artists, so their bigotries tend to be more ingrained. There's not many Ventrue who leave the Cam though, no. Rare at best. But everyone and everything has its antitribus. I'd generally assume an Anarch Ventrue would have the same sort of time of it as a Lasombra Cammie. There'll always be that uphill struggle.
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Jan 1, 2015 17:59
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Finally made it all the way to the end, and my vote is for A because they are the only ones who really didn't screw you over. LaCroix can't be trusted, and I would trust a Tremere as far as a baby could throw him. The Sabbat would pop the box and then throw you in it when they were done, and the Kuei-jin would thank you and then recite a lovely poem for your soul while they left you out for the sun.
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Jan 1, 2015 18:29
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So, finally caught up and just in time! On most other runs, I'd say go Anarch. I like the Anarchs, they're pretty straight up with the player and are generally good guys. But Melissa? Melissa is a low-humanity Ventrue. There's only one real way to go: F-1. gently caress Everything, gently caress It So Hard. In regards to the mysteries? Deb: I think she's gotta be involved somehow. I think a ghoul at least, although vampire is a distinct possibility. The only real evidence is how she reacts when Andrei calls up. She seems normal, but then ends the show and has to step out. I think she's reporting to her master. Grout: I always thought he was staked. I know he was BAMF Malkavian, but... I dunno, I just always assumed that the Kuei-Jin did actually manage to get him, either through disguise or just straight up Kuei-Jin fuckery. The Friend: Got my theories, but gonna have to wait because it involves the endings. The Voermans: Originally two, Jeanette died, gets repurposed into Therese's DID to shield her from the abuse. Then she gets Malk'd and it all goes to the nth degree. The Sire: Now, see I always had a theory. What if the Sire we see at the beginning was a Patsy? If there was some other, bigger force that actually embraced you, and then arranged for some poor sucker who would fit the part to be caught and executed. Would nicely explain why the MC starts at a decent Generation, but why their sire got taken out like a chump.
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Jan 1, 2015 19:25
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Hattie Masters posted:The Sire: Now, see I always had a theory. What if the Sire we see at the beginning was a Patsy? If there was some other, bigger force that actually embraced you, and then arranged for some poor sucker who would fit the part to be caught and executed. Would nicely explain why the MC starts at a decent Generation, but why their sire got taken out like a chump. To be fair, anyone would go out like a chump if they got ambushed and staked.
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Jan 1, 2015 22:20
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citybeatnik posted:Still not sure who the Lone Wolf she mentioned is. I don't see how it could be anyone other than Beckett. He's not part of the Camarilla, Anarchs, Sabbat, or any other group and literally turns into a wolf. When it comes to his change of heart regarding the sarcophagus I'm not sure still what would have caused that because going from being smugly dismissive of it to almost frantic is a pretty significant difference in attitude and I don't really have any solid ideas what could have gotten that kind of reaction from him. My very tentative theory ties into some ending stuff so I won't go into it but I can't think of anything else from the game that might have done it.
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Jan 1, 2015 22:39
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Traxus IV posted:I don't see how it could be anyone other than Beckett. He's not part of the Camarilla, Anarchs, Sabbat, or any other group and literally turns into a wolf. Honestly, not going into spoiler territory, I would have to think somebody would have tipped him off to things not being right with it, or he just did research on what could "potentially" be in the sarcophagus and it scared the gently caress out of him so he's running for the hills
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Jan 1, 2015 22:57
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My vote is to side with Strauss I think it puts Melissa in the best position as a Camarilla Ventrue. She may not become Prince immediately, but she clears her name and can work closely with Strauss who would probably only be a temporary Prince, and she has good relations (about as good as you can get for a Ventrue) with the Anarchs so she could probably keep the peace. The Anarchs even said they know breaking the Masquerade is stupid, so Melissa would probably just let them do their own thing and trust them not to cause much trouble. Pretty much all the other vampire factions (Gary and the Nosferatu, Hollywood Toreadors) have had fair dealings with Melissa and know she isn't someone to gently caress with so she would be in a good position to eventually become Prince. As for the Mysteries: Deb I think she is a Camarilla Ghoul Grout I don't think he is dead. He seemed too powerful to let himself just get chumped with a stake. I don't know if he is communicating with the PC at all, but I definitely think he is alive. The Friend I think its Jack based on what I know of the game endings. A lot of people think its not his style, but we don't really know what his style is other than what he has shown us. You don't survive as long as Jack has without knowing how to play people. Voermans I think they were originally sisters and Therese killed Jeanette and their father and went crazy. Sire I just don't believe its a coincidence that the PC is sired right before the whole mess with the sarcophagus. I don't know how exactly he did it, but again I think Jack somehow put everything in motion to have the PC sired, the sire killed during the trial, and have Nines save the PC. It gets a fresh new vampire close to Lacroix who can be easily manipulated due to ignorance of vampire society, all so Jack can achieve his endgame which I think is Getting all the kindred in LA to go crazy over some worthless Sarcophagus so he can have a laugh at all the chaos
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Jan 2, 2015 00:19
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Anarchs - gently caress you, you'll never be able to run a state Kuei-jin- gently caress you, you guys tried to have us killed like ten times. LaCroix - gently caress you, you guys tried to have us killed like ten times. Strauss - gently caress you, you did basically nothing the entire game. Sabbat - gently caress you, you killed our Ghoul and she gave us armour upgrades. What we're going to do is run this bitch, open that goddamn sarcophagus and nom on whatever AnteDiluvian motherfucker is in there. Then we become Queen of the World and fly away in a spaceship. F-2 Although I'm curious about what the hell the F-3 ending is meant to be.
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Jan 2, 2015 03:43
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Yorkshire Tea posted:Although I'm curious about what the hell the F-3 ending is meant to be. For my money, though, it is definitely one of the most satisfying conclusions, especially if you’ve gotten any of the others, and I feel delivers the “gently caress you” message especially effectively.  e: If we’d sided with the Sabbat at the Hotel, they wouldn’t have killed our ghoul. 
GrimRevenant fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Jan 2, 2015 |
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Jan 2, 2015 04:02
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Actually, on the subject of the player-character, how does one confirm a match between a vampire and the person they turn? Is it instinctual, is it an aura thing like with diablerie, or is their clan quirks the only clues?
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Jan 2, 2015 07:21
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tlarn posted:Actually, on the subject of the player-character, how does one confirm a match between a vampire and the person they turn? Is it instinctual, is it an aura thing like with diablerie, or is their clan quirks the only clues? Or you could just, y’know, grab the whelp for violating the Tradition of Hospitality (and suspicion of violating the Traditon of Progeny) and sweat it outta ’em, with some gratuitous use of Dominate or Presence if necessary. If you really gotta, starving ’em a few nights and forcing a new blood-bond’s pretty much gonna induce ’em to spill all they know, and with no pesky debt to the drat blood mages. 
GrimRevenant fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Jan 2, 2015 |
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Jan 2, 2015 08:18
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GrimRevenant posted:Or you could just, y’know, grab the whelp for violating the Tradition of Hospitality (and suspicion of violating the Traditon of Progeny) and sweat it outta ’em, with some gratuitous use of Dominate or Presence if necessary. If you really gotta, starving ’em a few nights and forcing a new blood-bond’s pretty much gonna induce ’em to spill all they know, and with no pesky debt to the drat blood mages.
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Jan 2, 2015 11:50
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That happens quite a bit, actually. Leaving a trail of clueless newly-embraced vampires is a great way to gently caress up the Masquerade, and a favourite tactic of both the Sabbat and Smiling Jack.
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Jan 2, 2015 14:40
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Alright, 's been a few days since the last vote and a victor is emerging fairly well, so I'm calling it. Rough results are as follows: #1 - Independent: A whole loving bunch #2 - Strauss: About half as much as Independent #3 - Anarchs: About half as much as Strauss #4 - Sabbat: One #5 - Kuei-jin/LaCroix: None (not even one for LaCroix? Man, I thought siding with him wasn't that stupid an idea...  )As for what we'll be doing with the sarcophagus... Don't open it: More than Strauss Open it: Less than Strauss So as I expected and find very fitting, the choice that Melissa made is gently caress EVERYTHING. My exact vote count goes as follows, but I might be off at some points, not sure, which is why "officially", the rough results count - so nobody can complain when I get one or two wrong: code:
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Jan 5, 2015 04:31
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TheMcD posted:#5 - Kuei-jin/LaCroix: None (not even one for LaCroix? Man, I thought siding with him wasn't that stupid an idea... LaCroix is a scheming backstabber and he considers us a threat. Giving him possible ultimate power is only going to make that worse. The only idea worth entertaining is leading him on to betray him later, and I don't think there's an ending for that.
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Jan 5, 2015 04:53
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What is this secret ending I've seen a couple folks mention? I've played through a few times so now I'm intrigued.
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Jan 5, 2015 04:56
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Heir03 posted:What is this secret ending I've seen a couple folks mention? I've played through a few times so now I'm intrigued. Suffice it to say I know about this and will be getting to it. That's all you should know. However, you should be able to put the pieces together already - they're already there for you to figure out what the secret ending involves. dancingbears posted:LaCroix is a scheming backstabber and he considers us a threat. Giving him possible ultimate power is only going to make that worse. The only idea worth entertaining is leading him on to betray him later, and I don't think there's an ending for that. It basically centers around the question "Is LaCroix insane/paranoid/stupid enough to still consider us a threat after we come back to him after he called a blood hunt on us and fulfill exactly everything he asks of us?". Personally, I don't think so. Of course, we still need to see the ending to really talk about it.
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Jan 5, 2015 05:03
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TheMcD posted:"Is LaCroix insane/paranoid/stupid enough to still consider us a threat after we come back to him after he called a blood hunt on us and fulfill exactly everything he asks of us?" Melissa took out a werewolf in a burning forest. We've proven that we are outside his power to control if we ever say "no" to him, and that would not be acceptable to someone as self-centered as LaCroix.
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Jan 5, 2015 05:11
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WESP allows us to save Heather from the Sabbat by joining Andrei beforehand? McD, please let us see this branch, unless that's the only way to join. It'll be gold either way. But I've been getting the impression you can join after the hotel assault too. Are there one or two chances to join the Sabbat?Heir03 posted:What is this secret ending I've seen a couple folks mention? I've played through a few times so now I'm intrigued. It is forbidden knowledge neonate and you must not seek it. The Powers That Be probated me in this very thread for posting it.  of course that might've been because I linked it halfway through the game but whatever DAD
DeusExMachinima fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 07:09
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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DeusExMachinima posted:WESP allows us to save Heather from the Sabbat by joining Andrei beforehand? McD, please let us see this branch, unless that's the only way to join. It'll be gold either way. But I've been getting the impression you can join after the hotel assault too. Are there one or two chances to join the Sabbat? Actually, WESP allows you to save Heather period. If you don't join the Sabbat, you can just tell her to remain indoors and not leave at some point. You don't get the body armor, but you do get to keep your ghoul.
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Jan 5, 2015 07:18
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DeusExMachinima posted:WESP allows us to save Heather from the Sabbat by joining Andrei beforehand? McD, please let us see this branch, unless that's the only way to join. It'll be gold either way. But I've been getting the impression you can join after the hotel assault too. Are there one or two chances to join the Sabbat? As mauman said, you can also save Heather by just going "stay the gently caress inside" whenever the option pops up. You don't get the body armor, but you keep her. And she's broken in my game, making her entirely useless. But even if she wasn't broken, it wouldn't make any difference - it's not like WESP can add new dialogue or the like - and when he does, we get the stuff from the Sabbat ending, which we'll get to. And AFAIK you can only join before the hotel assault, since, y'know, you loving kill the guy you side with during that. Without Andrei, things get kind of rough for the Sabbat.
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Jan 5, 2015 14:33
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TheMcD posted:And AFAIK you can only join before the hotel assault, since, y'know, you loving kill the guy you side with during that. Without Andrei, things get kind of rough for the Sabbat. Ah, Ok. That makes sense. I don't know why I got the impression otherwise.
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Jan 5, 2015 18:55
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Feel like letting you save Heather misses the entire point of the character: Ghouling isn't lovey-dovey happy relationships, it's a relationship between an addict and their dealer
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Jan 5, 2015 19:13
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Robindaybird posted:Feel like letting you save Heather misses the entire point of the character: Ghouling isn't lovey-dovey happy relationships, it's a relationship between an addict and their dealer Hey now, let's not generalize. Sometimes it's a relationship between a mad scientist and his horribly mutated test subject(s).
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Jan 5, 2015 19:24
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Robindaybird posted:Feel like letting you save Heather misses the entire point of the character: Ghouling isn't lovey-dovey happy relationships, it's a relationship between an addict and their dealer Or, very, very rarely, the vampire is one of the ones that can't form blood bonds, and thus has the slightest hope of having a semi-normal living friend in the world, long term. Even then, there's a painfully long list of difficulties.
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Jan 5, 2015 19:31
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Robindaybird posted:Feel like letting you save Heather misses the entire point of the character: Ghouling isn't lovey-dovey happy relationships, it's a relationship between an addict and their dealer It's even worse than that. Ghouling a mortal instills a blood bond, which forms a one-way emotional bond between the ghoul and domitor. Imagine the first time that you were passionately in love with another person, a ghoul is even more passionately in love with and devoted to the vampire who blood-bonded them. It's a beyond hosed-up abusive relationship that couples genuine emotional dependence with a super-sized heroin addiction. Played right, it's easily one of the most horrifying things about the WoD.
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Jan 5, 2015 19:49
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Zeroisanumber posted:It's even worse than that. Ghouling a mortal instills a blood bond, which forms a one-way emotional bond between the ghoul and domitor. Imagine the first time that you were passionately in love with another person, a ghoul is even more passionately in love with and devoted to the vampire who blood-bonded them. It's a beyond hosed-up abusive relationship that couples genuine emotional dependence with a super-sized heroin addiction. Played right, it's easily one of the most horrifying things about the WoD. How does this work with Mercurio?
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Jan 5, 2015 22:56
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F1: gently caress this shithole.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:04
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JT Jag posted:F1: gently caress this shithole. Well, I already called the vote, but you'll be glad to hear that F-1 was the one that won. I also already recorded the footage for the first part of it. Turns out that yes, buffing the gently caress out of defense does make these end sections a lot less painful. Doesn't stop the boss from being a seriously tough bastard, though.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:15
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chippocrates posted:How does this work with Mercurio? Depends. If a ghoul doesn't know who his bond is with, they can kinda pine absently but the obsession is more diffuse. He's on LaCroix's "payroll" which could mean the prince is either providing his blood directly or arranging for a fix. In either case, he gets his blood "from LaCroix" so his loyalty there is fairly assured. Ghouls are usually well aware what the price is of running out of blood (fast aging and/or death), so once they're a decade or more in they probably won't rock the boat on their own volition. Hence why Mercurio was more than happy to repay his debt, but he won't take any action outside of that. Another interesting quirk: if a ghoul forms a blood bond with a vamp (by drinking 3 times on separate nights) like anyone else they're effectively immune to future bonds so long as the bondholder exists. Means that they could be "lent out" or contracted by other vamps and their loyalty to their primary domitor is still assured, though they'd have to be really useful assets for most vamps to take on the risk/responsibility.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:17
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chippocrates posted:How does this work with Mercurio? Understanding his situation probably helps Mercurio put things in perspective, but LaCroix and doing helpful things for LaCroix are never far from his thoughts. The guy will sweat and bleed for LaCroix on request, and treasures words of praise from him like a soldier treasures a medal for bravery.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:17
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So he'll be really sad and likely crumble down to dust after we stab Lacroix? 
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Jan 5, 2015 23:23
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Poil posted:So he'll be really sad and likely crumble down to dust after we stab Lacroix? Unless he can find more blood, Mercurio will age up to his natural age when all of the vampire blood is burned out of his system. Assuming that he doesn't use any of it for other stuff, it burns out naturally at the rate of one point per month.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:30
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Poil posted:So he'll be really sad and likely crumble down to dust after we stab Lacroix? Well, since the primary domitor no longer exists, I would presume we could "adopt" him, if he so wishes. He probably wouldn't die, he's only sixty AFAIK.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:31
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