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SedanChair posted:That's splitting hairs, unlike a Catholic priest. Ain't no hairs on what he's splitting. Who'd you piss off this time?
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Jan 1, 2015 15:32
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Disinterested posted:Gifted a lovely avatar from a racist assbag. Happy New Year, fellow goon.
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Jan 1, 2015 16:14
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The joke about the whole celibacy thing is most Catholics I know think the whole celibacy thing is bullshit, too. But then there's a pretty big schism between what the Vatican says and what most Catholics believe to begin with. Maybe Pope Francis will come out and say celibacy is bullshit too, any time he says something that pisses off Vatican authority is a good time in my books. There was also that time last year where the Evangelical Church of Germany released a mission statement or something similar that said to respect and bless or whatever alternative forms of family up to and including same-sex couples. Granted you can argue it's the Church becoming more open and liberal in response to a society that grows more secular and you wouldn't be half-wrong, but it also seems like the USA just has a lot of really lovely Christians. I know when I was growing up religious education mostly boiled down to being told Jesus wants us to be excellent to each other and to help the poor and others in need of help, fun stuff like that, and I don't remember sin and hell figuring into it much, if at all.
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Jan 1, 2015 18:45
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a cartoon duck posted:There was also that time last year where the Evangelical Church of Germany released a mission statement or something similar that said to respect and bless or whatever alternative forms of family up to and including same-sex couples. Granted you can argue it's the Church becoming more open and liberal in response to a society that grows more secular and you wouldn't be half-wrong, but it also seems like the USA just has a lot of really lovely Christians. I know when I was growing up religious education mostly boiled down to being told Jesus wants us to be excellent to each other and to help the poor and others in need of help, fun stuff like that, and I don't remember sin and hell figuring into it much, if at all. That's how Sunday School is in the US, more or less. The interesting thing is that you see quite a lot of the same rhetoric in Europe, it's just not explicitly from a Christian perspective. All of the "clash of civilizations" bullshit with Muslims is anti-heretic response but due to the lax influence of Christianity in a real sense in Europe you don't get that automatic connection.
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Jan 1, 2015 19:05
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The thing that weirds me out about these religious discussions is the hubris involved. Like we literally have Wiggles and Kyrie trying to tell us how the world works. But they are filling the gaps of their understanding with their own home-spun logic and opinions (this is, of course, giving them the huge benefit of the doubt that the bible is true or whatever). But even if you give them that, it just seems absurdly arrogant and directly counter-intuitive to the main tenets of the religion that they adhere to. They're essentially making up their own god and filling in the gaps where convenient. I don't blame them though, life is terrible for a lot of people and they have to invent fabrications so that they can have peace in this world. I feel bad that their circumstances led them that way and it's not their fault at all really if you think about it. If life wasn't so bad for so many people, religion would cease to be a thing within a generation or less. Unfortunately we aren't even close to there yet.
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Jan 1, 2015 19:43
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Taima posted:The thing that weirds me out about these religious discussions is the hubris involved. I would doubt that yours or anyone else's life is free of fabrications to make things seem better than they are.
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Jan 1, 2015 19:47
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Kyrie eleison posted:The potential for fertility only exists between a man and a woman. It is clear and obvious to everyone that men and women were designed to go together sexually for the purpose of creating children.  So heterosexuality is good because it's clearly natural and thus what God intended, but every human brain is secretly a bit gay, and God... had nothing to do with that? Kyrie eleison posted:You are trying to compromise on basic moral issues by making a consequentialist argument.
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Jan 1, 2015 20:58
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Taima posted:If life wasn't so bad for so many people, religion would cease to be a thing within a generation or less. Unfortunately we aren't even close to there yet. In a post-scarcity economy people might actually flock to religion as a way to kill time and express identity, although I expect there would be a different set of demands on the matter.
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Jan 1, 2015 21:29
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Dzhay posted:
Kyrie likes 
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Jan 1, 2015 22:02
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Taima posted:If life wasn't so bad for so many people, religion would cease to be a thing within a generation or less. Unfortunately we aren't even close to there yet.
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Jan 1, 2015 22:02
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J.A.B.C. posted:Happy New Year, fellow goon. Happy new year, gentlegoon. I can't respond to the hatful of replies to me, but I will say: elaborate claims or arguments about whether such and such a thing is the most important are always stupid. The Catholic church is certainly close to being the most influential institution ever, if not the most. It doesn't matter. It proves nothing.
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Jan 1, 2015 22:48
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Dzhay posted:You appear to be re-defining "good". He already admitted that "good" is, by definition, whatever the whims of the killer sky-toddler happen to be.
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Jan 1, 2015 22:54
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Question for the Christians in the thread: do you think of the gospel accounts as eyewitness testimony? This isn't a gotcha question, just a curiosity of people's viewpoints. The gospel of Luke for instance seems to be second hand, Luke is telling someone the story as he knows it, and not with "I did this and that" but "these are things that I have heard happened". On the other hand, Matthew is sometimes thought to be disiple Matthew, although there again, no "I did this and that" language. I just hear people sometimes refer to the gospels as eyewitness accounts, but my understanding is that historically they are thought to be authored by non-witnesses 30 or more years after the fact. I suppose disciple Matthew could have been an eyewitness and just waited awhile to write things down, but many also accept that Matthew used part of Mark as a basis for his gospel. Anyway, just curious about thoughts.
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Jan 1, 2015 23:17
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Happy new year, friends. I'll now post a general reply to various people asking me to clarify my ideas about homosexuality, particularly that it is "universal." This is not an official church teaching. It is a personal theory which is compatible with church teaching. I don't think everyone will necessarily have a homosexual thought in their life. However, I believe that everyone has the potential to have that side of them awakened. Before my first homosexual experience, I had never thought of myself as having homosexual tendencies. I had always been attracted to girls before that. In adolescence, everyone is socially challenged about homosexuality. We are compelled to make a decision. Those who decide they are homosexual at this point are called homosexuals thereafter. Those who do not are called heterosexuals. However, many of these "heterosexuals" actually have homosexual thoughts, but they have decided to hide them and focus on heterosexual relationships. I am one of these heterosexuals. Some may have never had their homosexual desires awakened at all. But in the internet age, with pornography everywhere, many heterosexual men can indulge in homosexual fantasy whenever they please. And, yes... transgender pornography counts. They can also do anonymous hookups on Craigslist or whatever, where "straight" men can frequently be found looking for homosexual sex. The point I'm trying to make is that heterosexuals actively choose to be straight. Most men will never admit to having a homosexual side.
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Jan 2, 2015 00:38
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Kyrie eleison posted:Happy new year, friends.
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Jan 2, 2015 00:43
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Kyrie eleison posted:Happy new year, friends. No one actively chooses to be gay or straight. There is absolutely nothing to support that.
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Jan 2, 2015 00:43
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Who What Now posted:No one actively chooses to be gay or straight. There is absolutely nothing to support that. I did.
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Jan 2, 2015 00:45
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Who What Now posted:No one actively chooses to be gay or straight. There is absolutely nothing to support that. I suspect however this is not about the concept of bisexuality or a continuum of degrees of attraction, but rather a feeling that given the option everyone would eagerly embrace gayness, and must instead steel themselves to go sex a person of the opposite gender by deliberate will. Kyrie eleison posted:I did. 
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Jan 2, 2015 00:46
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Kyrie eleison posted:Happy new year, friends. That isn't how it works, heterosexuals don't suppress their homosexual tendencies, they don't have them to a significant degree to begin with. If you have to keep fighting your homosexual urges, you're not heterosexual, you're homosexual or bisexual. While I believe in the capacity to modify your sexual orientation, it doesn't seem to be a capacity you possess, if you did, you wouldn't have to repress your desires, you wouldn't feel them to begin with. A lot of people profess to be stuck the way they are, and it looks like you're one of them. But I can promise you that heterosexual people in general don't spend time fighting their urge to be gay. It isn't something they feel much of an inclination towards to begin with. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jan 2, 2015 |
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Jan 2, 2015 00:48
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Kyrie eleison posted:I did. You've made a choice all right, but it's a choice to repress yourself, not to define yourself.
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Jan 2, 2015 00:48
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Kyrie eleison posted:Happy new year, friends. Man, denial. Guilt. Shame. Projection. Bigotry. This post has it all!
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Jan 2, 2015 00:48
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Kyrie eleison posted:I did. No, you are bisexual, what you choose were you mr partners.
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Jan 2, 2015 00:54
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I entirely believe that it's possible that Kyrie is in fact bi but elects for religious reason to opt in to only one form of sexuality. He would have to do that anyway if he chose long-term monogamy. The problem is, I think Kyrie is generalising from that experience and assumes that's how it works for all gay people. 'I can have it both ways and pick one side if I want. Why can't everyone else!?'. Because you don't share the same nature as everyone else. Mercifully. Of course, he could just be covering for repressed homosexuality. But I don't think anyone has laid out sufficiently advanced bait to tease out that information. Also, I don't care what's going on in Kyrie's sex life. Unless it's extremely funny.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:01
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Who What Now posted:No, you are bisexual, what you choose were you mr partners. Don't go jumping to conclusions. Plenty of straight up gay men throughout history have been convinced they were choosing to be straight.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:03
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Nessus posted:It's possible he's talking about how someone who greatly prefers women, but has the very occasional homosexual impulse, does not necessarily choose to act on the latter, and defines himself as "straight." Or possibly that someone with more attraction to men than women could marry a woman and have sex with her on the regular, not cheat, and so forth. A proper homosexual relationship, in which both parties truly love one another, is such a special thing, because the two people have so much in common. A man and a woman will never be as similar as a man and a man. Heterosexuality is a complementary relationship where gender differences are overcome. Homosexuality does not need to cross such a chasm. Interests which are typically masculine can be shared with your lover. And you can also enjoy effeminate things together, without the risk of diminishing your masculinity that you would have when with a woman. If all men honestly believed that homosexuality was a valid life choice, most if not all would prefer it over heterosexuality. Look at ancient Rome with its hedonistic attitude and prevalence of homosexuality. Look at prisons, where men indulge in homosexuality throughout the stay because they have no female options, but then leave and become heterosexual again. Men choose heterosexuality because they see the way nature designed us, because they want to have children, and lastly, they believe there is something sinister, even misogynist, about rejecting women as sexual partners.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:03
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Kyrie eleison posted:In adolescence, everyone is socially challenged about homosexuality. We are compelled to make a decision. Those who decide they are homosexual at this point are called homosexuals thereafter. Those who do not are called heterosexuals. However, many of these "heterosexuals" actually have homosexual thoughts, but they have decided to hide them and focus on heterosexual relationships. I am one of these heterosexuals. Nessus posted:Are you aware of kinsey's concept of a continuum of sexual attraction? OwlFancier posted:That isn't how it works, heterosexuals don't suppress their homosexual tendencies, they don't have them to a significant degree to begin with. If you have to keep fighting your homosexual urges, you're not heterosexual, you're homosexual or bisexual.  Congratulations Kyrie, you are bisexual, and probably fall somewhere between 4 and 5 on the Kinsey scale. There is nothing wrong with this, embrace it.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:05
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Kyrie, Im pretty sure every gay man out there doesn't look at women every day and think, "Man, I'd prosecute that pussy so hard- Wait, no! I must resist the siren call of fine titties and an rear end like a peach. I must stay true to the homosexual agenda." And all straight men don't have similar homosexual thoughts nor could they be "awakened" within them unless a disposition for men was already there to begin with.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:05
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Kyrie eleison posted:A proper homosexual relationship, in which both parties truly love one another, is such a special thing, because the two people have so much in common. I assume from this (holy dysfunctional) narrative of sexual conduct that you regard it as a positive that Christianity created a greater taboo against homosexuality, or everyone would be doing it?
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Jan 2, 2015 01:05
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Kyrie eleison posted:I did. So did I. Difference is, I chose who I was attracted to, not who I acted on my attraction to. There is no conflict involved, I don't have to try to feel the way I do, it's just who I am. You really don't seem to be describing a choice of sexuality, you're describing a choice of action, in opposition to your sexuality, which you seem to have no conscious control over, much like most people. fade5 posted:Sexuality is not binary. Yeah I know it's not, but "opposite, both, or same" does describe the kinsey scale, where you fall exactly is up to you.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:05
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Kyrie eleison posted:In adolescence, everyone is socially challenged about homosexuality. We are compelled to make a decision. Those who decide they are homosexual at this point are called homosexuals thereafter. Those who do not are called heterosexuals. However, many of these "heterosexuals" actually have homosexual thoughts, but they have decided to hide them and focus on heterosexual relationships. I am one of these heterosexuals. This post brought to you from Bizarroland where nothing works like it does in reality. Kyrie eleison posted:
Nope
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Jan 2, 2015 01:05
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Kyrie eleison posted:A proper homosexual relationship, in which both parties truly love one another, is such a special thing, because the two people have so much in common. Not everyone is bisexual and flipping a coin like you, I don't understand why you don't get that. Also, girls can like "guy" things and vice versa in a heterosexual relationship, why are you so confused?
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Jan 2, 2015 01:06
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Who What Now posted:Kyrie, Im pretty sure every gay man out there doesn't look at women every day and think, "Man, I'd prosecute that pussy so hard- Wait, no! I must resist the siren call of fine titties and an rear end like a peach. I must stay true to the homosexual agenda." And all straight men don't have similar homosexual thoughts nor could they be "awakened" within them unless a disposition for men was already there to begin with. You are wrong. Homosexual men are excluded by the homosexual community if they indulge in women.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:07
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Kyrie eleison posted:A proper homosexual relationship, in which both parties truly love one another, is such a special thing, because the two people have so much in common. Haha, holy poo poo, just when I think your views about relationships couldn't get any more hosed up.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:09
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Kyrie eleison posted:A proper homosexual relationship, in which both parties truly love one another, is such a special thing, because the two people have so much in common. Not to be crude, but, I like men somewhat, and I couldn't write that kind of a love letter to men if I wanted to. That seriously sounds like you loving love men, like, waaay more than I do, I honestly prefer women in the main because masculinity is a bit tedious to me. Are you definitely sure you're heterosexual? Kyrie eleison posted:You are wrong. Homosexual men are excluded by the homosexual community if they indulge in women. Well, bisexuals do get a bit of flak from both sides sometimes but I'm pretty sure you don't get cast out of the leather club for having profaned your man meat with the flesh of womankind. Where are you getting that from? OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Jan 2, 2015 |
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Jan 2, 2015 01:09
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Al Harrington posted:Not everyone is bisexual and flipping a coin like you, I don't understand why you don't get that. Also, girls can like "guy" things and vice versa in a heterosexual relationship, why are you so confused? Because Kyrie is literally a radical feminist's perfect example of a patriarch. He can only conceive of male-female relations as relations of domination and subjection. aka Ephesians 5 posted:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:09
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Kyrie eleison posted:You are wrong. Homosexual men are excluded by the homosexual community if they indulge in women. This has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:11
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Kyrie eleison posted:Men choose heterosexuality because they see the way nature designed us, because they want to have children, and lastly, they believe there is something sinister, even misogynist, about rejecting women as sexual partners. You're mad as a hatter. On a less judgmental note: I would really be happy to hear someday that you've had some professional guidance in a therapeutic context.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:12
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Who What Now posted:This has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. And incidentally, is not true in the majority of homosexual circles I have encountered, even in the more woman-hating ones. Not even fusty Cambridge academics who think women shouldn't attend their university think it's utterly bizarre for one of their number to have a small affair with a woman, on a rare occasion. And those circles are max-level conservative and misogynistic. Sedanchair your avatar dun got hosed up too.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:13
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Disinterested posted:And incidentally, is not true in the majority of homosexual circles I have encountered, even in the more woman-hating ones. Not even fusty Cambridge academics who think women shouldn't attend their university think it's utterly bizarre for one of their number to have a small affair with a woman, on a rare occasion. And those circles are max-level conservative and misogynistic. D&D is practically a homosexual community, and it certainly despises the idea that I might choose to be heterosexual.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:16
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Kyrie eleison posted:D&D is practically a homosexual community, and it certainly despises the idea that I might choose to be heterosexual. Are you high right now?
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Jan 2, 2015 01:17
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