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I'm looking forward to the hypothetical "What if the 
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Jan 1, 2015 18:59
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I'm pretty sure my previous post has more or less reached that point.
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Jan 1, 2015 19:00
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RareAcumen posted:Happy New Year! This is really hosed up and sad. Unfortunately he was black near police, and days after those police were shot to boot.
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Jan 1, 2015 19:20
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Isn't that
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Jan 1, 2015 19:35
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archangelwar posted:Unless you mean the golden zip along Park, you can easily live in UES for 90k. Not with a family. You're limited to Staten Island or the outer boroughs with 90k gross. You sure as hell aren't living comfortably on the UES with a family on that.
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Jan 1, 2015 19:45
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TheImmigrant posted:Not with a family. You're limited to Staten Island or the outer boroughs with 90k gross. You sure as hell aren't living comfortably on the UES with a family on that. Yet another reason ny is screwed up.
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Jan 1, 2015 19:58
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TheImmigrant posted:Not with a family. You're limited to Staten Island or the outer boroughs with 90k gross. You sure as hell aren't living comfortably on the UES with a family on that. Again this "comfort."
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Jan 1, 2015 19:58
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Ravenfood posted:Letting an elected official that he is ultimately responsible for get arrested on blatantly hosed up retaliatory charges without doing anything about it would probably be the worst possible move in that scenario. The word for that is coup -- we're nowhere near that point, internet hyperbole not withstanding. TheImmigrant posted:Not with a family. You're limited to Staten Island or the outer boroughs with 90k gross. You sure as hell aren't living comfortably on the UES with a family on that. My wife and I lived in Manhattan on $48k combined in 2012, albeit not on the UES. The real tragedy here is that the SHOWTIME people are back on the A train.
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Jan 1, 2015 20:01
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Alkydere posted:Basically, ask yourself: what (not tea party/nutjob) elected official wants to create the precedent where it's totally okay for the police to extra-legally declare any elected official's office and term is null and void because "we don't like you"? Most of them. See: Birtherism, nullifcation, impeachment. I know you said "not tea party/nutjob" but who do you think this country has been electing? Steve Scalise is majority whip for pete's sake.
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Jan 1, 2015 20:02
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TheImmigrant posted:Not with a family. You're limited to Staten Island or the outer boroughs with 90k gross. You sure as hell aren't living comfortably on the UES with a family on that. well, two things. a. manhattan is pretty big and you can easily live in washington heights or inwood for 90k. b. i don't know what your notion of "comfort" is but you'd probably be happier living somewhere where you aren't crammed in with 12 million other people, it's not super comfortable. also, there's spots way east in the 70's-80's that are like 1500 for a 1br. you can easily do that on 90k a year.
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Jan 1, 2015 20:30
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ActusRhesus posted:Right. Appropriate response: "we of the NYPD recognize that racial relations in America are a complex issue that warrants continued vigilance and our role as protectors of the community is greatly diminished when the communities we serve see us as oppressors, not guardians. The mayor's words sadden us, as they send a message that we feel is both an inaccurate portrayal of our organization, and further divides a community that we wish to see united. We will however, continue to protect and serve, and hope the mayor will refrain from such comments in the future." It's amusing that you expected the PD of a major US city to take the high road on anything. These people aren't smart enough to realize they need to take the high road, haven't you seen the articles about rejecting candidates with IQs above the average? That's been going on long enough that the first officers recruited under those standards are now in positions of leadership. It's Forrest Gump with guns and armored vehicles and tasers out there. And zero Tom Hanks harmless charm.
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Jan 1, 2015 20:33
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TheSpiritFox posted:It's amusing that you expected the PD of a major US city to take the high road on anything. These people aren't smart enough to realize they need to take the high road, haven't you seen the articles about rejecting candidates with IQs above the average? That's been going on long enough that the first officers recruited under those standards are now in positions of leadership. It's Forrest Gump with guns and armored vehicles and tasers out there. And zero Tom Hanks harmless charm. They didn't reject candidates with IQ's above the average. They rejected dudes who were borderline MENSA qualifiers. The majority of police have above average IQ's. Sorry.
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Jan 1, 2015 20:42
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And that happened in 1996. Believe it or not many or all police departments require at least some college education and to be competitive in a non bumfuck department you pretty much have to have a bachelors degree.
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Jan 1, 2015 20:44
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TheSpiritFox posted:It's amusing that you expected the PD of a major US city to take the high road on anything. These people aren't smart enough to realize they need to take the high road, haven't you seen the articles about rejecting candidates with IQs above the average? That's been going on long enough that the first officers recruited under those standards are now in positions of leadership. It's Forrest Gump with guns and armored vehicles and tasers out there. And zero Tom Hanks harmless charm. This gets thrown around way too much, pretty much any company will reject people that are overqualified for a position to the extent they don't think the candidate will stick around in the job.
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Jan 1, 2015 20:52
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Volkerball posted:They didn't reject candidates with IQ's above the average. They rejected dudes who were borderline MENSA qualifiers. The majority of police have above average IQ's. Sorry. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95836&page=1#.Tv-OZSNWplw It's likely that the NYPD would be higher than average on account of the New York public school system, but the person who raised the suit had an IQ of 125. That's not particularly far from the Mensa minimum of 131, but a 125 IQ is 95th percentile, not 99.5th.
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Jan 1, 2015 20:56
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TheSpiritFox posted:It's amusing that you expected the PD of a major US city to take the high road on anything. These people aren't smart enough to realize they need to take the high road, haven't you seen the articles about rejecting candidates with IQs above the average? That's been going on long enough that the first officers recruited under those standards are now in positions of leadership. It's Forrest Gump with guns and armored vehicles and tasers out there. And zero Tom Hanks harmless charm. It's amusing that you would post something so incorrect, as has already been pointed out.
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Jan 1, 2015 20:56
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moths posted:It's really loving weird that they're basically half-assing their jobs in protest. In government, any organization actively demonstrating that they aren't essential is suicidal. Considering how many Manhattan NYPD officers just sit in their cars all day and play on their cell phones it isn't surprising.
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Jan 1, 2015 21:29
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TheImmigrant posted:Not with a family. You're limited to Staten Island or the outer boroughs with 90k gross. You sure as hell aren't living comfortably on the UES with a family on that. Well yes, if your entire argument rests on weasel words like "comfortably" where you will be able to constantly shift goal posts until you have an argument that resembles the article that talks about how it is hard to live on $400k/year, then yes.
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Jan 1, 2015 22:20
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TheSpiritFox posted:It's amusing that you expected the PD of a major US city to take the high road on anything. These people aren't smart enough to realize they need to take the high road, haven't you seen the articles about rejecting candidates with IQs above the average? That's been going on long enough that the first officers recruited under those standards are now in positions of leadership. It's Forrest Gump with guns and armored vehicles and tasers out there. And zero Tom Hanks harmless charm. IQ is a bullshit metric for anything and you sound like a chain letter right now. I was going home from work last night and jeeesus, there were a lot of cops about. Totally understandable, it was New Year's Eve and I pass through Times Square, but there were clusters of them all over the place. Luckily I don't think anything dramatic happened all night.
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Jan 1, 2015 22:23
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Oxxidation posted:IQ is a bullshit metric for anything and you sound like a chain letter right now.
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Jan 1, 2015 22:33
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This slowdown is the best thing the NYPD ever did for the city.
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Jan 1, 2015 22:35
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Misogynist posted:The ABC News report on the case back in 2000 cited the average IQ of a police officer nationally as 104: Those are actually quite far from each other. It's the difference between being smarter than 19/20 people rather than 199/200.
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Jan 1, 2015 22:40
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ActusRhesus posted:It's amusing that you would post something so incorrect, as has already been pointed out. After all, Forrest Gump would never lift his hand in anger.
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Jan 1, 2015 23:03
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Pohl posted:This slowdown is the best thing the NYPD ever did for the city. 
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Jan 2, 2015 00:05
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Jarmak posted:This gets thrown around way too much, pretty much any company will reject people that are overqualified for a position to the extent they don't think the candidate will stick around in the job. Intelligence is not over-qualification. Misogynist posted:The status of IQ as a bullshit metric hasn't stopped the NYPD and other forces from excluding all sufficiently high-scoring candidates as a matter of policy (please, see the justification provided in the Jordan case if you haven't already). Despite the hysteria and bad conclusions in the rest of the post, there's a kernel of valid point in there -- police forces are very protective of their culture, and very skeptical of those they perceive to be cultural outsiders, and they will make up whatever quantitative justifications they want in order to build strong walls. It's not hysteria and bad conclusions it's hyperbole for the purpose of mocking police forces. In all seriousness this isn't just about being protective of their culture and excluding outsiders. No police chief wants to hire officers who will think outside of the organization, question it's directives, or seek to go around the existing power structures. They work hard to eliminate people who don't buy into police groupthink and punish members of their own community who stray. Saying it's about culture makes it sound like it's just a social club with guns, this is about protecting the power structures in place and the people who hold those positions from an officer who might be smart enough to gently caress all of it up by blowing a whistle or having a conscience and the internal mental certainty to follow through with it. While my previous post was a mocking hyperbole it was meant to underscore the absurdity of the idea that the police in this country will ever "take the high road" excepting circumstances where that road is the only one they can possibly take. The outcries from this insular community being compared to children screaming in indignation over imagined slights is not without merit, and the average officer has been selected specifically to not be someone who is going to think outside the box and especially not outside the group. This is not just bluster and mocking them as forrest gumps being a bit absurd doesn't change the stark fact that one of the reasons few officers speak out (among many reasons) is that many of them are literally not smart enough to see all the angles or to see any perspective other than the one that has been taught to them by their "in" group. Someone who spoke up to "correct" me illustrated it. Yeah, police officers are "average" in intelligence. Average is not very smart, if some of you have not noticed. Average is actually pretty loving stupid in many cases especially when average is put under stress and handed deadly weapons. But most of all average stays in line because the best self awareness average can manage is being aware that it's average and not wanting to rock the boat because they aren't entirely sure how the thing loving floats in the first place and don't want to drown. They aren't just rejecting mensa members here, and even so the above quoted objection about "over qualification" belies the reality that many people of high intelligence find satisfaction in blue collar work and in fact there has been a movement in that direction since white collar has proven to be such a limited opportunity and a mensa member with a master electricians license is a hell of alot more likely to live comfortably than this year's law school graduates. Intelligence does not mean you are unfit, unqualified, or unlikely to enjoy a job which is not overly intellectual in nature and if I'm not mistaken is in fact a line of propaganda first put forth by police departments in defense of these policies and not some independently established reality. Feel free to correct me on that if I'm wrong.
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Jan 2, 2015 00:18
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How much does "intelligence", as measured by the tests used by the cops, factor into moral and ethical behavior though? I mean there have been and are some loving brilliant people who have gleefully hosed over others for their own benefit. Are smarter people really more likely to be better behaved when given power and authority? I'd want to see some academic study on that before getting my underwear bunched up my rear end in a top hat over it.TheSpiritFox posted:Intelligence does not mean you are unfit, unqualified, or unlikely to enjoy a job which is not overly intellectual in nature and if I'm not mistaken is in fact a line of propaganda first put forth by police departments in defense of these policies and not some independently established reality. Feel free to correct me on that if I'm wrong. No, actually, I think I want you to source your assertion that "you shouldn't hire too-smart people for the not-smart jobs because they'll get bored and go elsewhere" was literally first concocted by police departments as a conspiracy to cover their hiring practices.
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Jan 2, 2015 04:19
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What if you hired a cop so smart, he was Tom Cruise.
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Jan 2, 2015 04:30
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:How much does "intelligence", as measured by the tests used by the cops, factor into moral and ethical behavior though? I mean there have been and are some loving brilliant people who have gleefully hosed over others for their own benefit. Are smarter people really more likely to be better behaved when given power and authority? I'd want to see some academic study on that before getting my underwear bunched up my rear end in a top hat over it. IQ is pretty much just a number that spergs use to justify their shut-in status, cops have real problems, but IQ isn't one of them.
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Jan 2, 2015 06:29
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SedanChair posted:What if you hired a cop so smart, he was Tom Cruise. First place in volleyball tournaments?
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Jan 2, 2015 06:37
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The only actual source I've ever seen for the IQ thing is the article where one local department wouldn't hire a guy because they thought he was overqualified and wouldn't stay (and thus didn't want to spend thousands training him), which if you've ever been in a hiring position is a totally valid concern. Screening candidates, training, etc. is a huge pain in the rear end and you don't want to do it anymore than necessary. There are enough real problems with police that you don't have to misinterpret an article from years ago to paint them all as idiots to find something to complain about.
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Jan 2, 2015 07:23
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themrguy posted:The only actual source I've ever seen for the IQ thing is the article where one local department wouldn't hire a guy because they thought he was overqualified and wouldn't stay (and thus didn't want to spend thousands training him), which if you've ever been in a hiring position is a totally valid concern. Screening candidates, training, etc. is a huge pain in the rear end and you don't want to do it anymore than necessary. There are enough real problems with police that you don't have to misinterpret an article from years ago to paint them all as idiots to find something to complain about. Overqualified for scoring too high on an IQ test, yes. From Jordan v. City of New London: quote:The city responded that it removed Jordan from consideration because he scored a 33 on the WPT, and that to prevent frequent job turnover caused by hiring overqualified applicants the city only interviewed candidates who scored between 20 and 27. This was allowed despite the Court admitting that there was no correlation between scores on the test and job satisfaction.
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Jan 2, 2015 07:30
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As Silicon Valley, Wall Street and elsewhere show being very intelligent does not make you a good or decent person. The Police attracts authoritarians who want to have power over people and have the opportunity hurt people they dislike just as Wall Street attracts people who want to make as much money as possible, consequences for others be damned. Lynch as leader of the NYPD union has to play to the tastes of his members, people who thrive on intimidation and use of aggression, which means he has to take the low road and make threats during negotiations. If he didn't he'd be replaced as union president by someone who was willing to do that. I'm not saying Lynch isn't enjoying every minute of making these threats, but he and other cops aren't making these threats because they're stupid. They're making them because they're authoritarian assholes.
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Jan 2, 2015 13:47
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The amazing part of this whole thing is you guys paint with such broad and hateful strokes and actually believe your own bullshit. The disconnect is unreal. Cops are basically: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Boss_Man_%28wrestler%29
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Jan 2, 2015 14:45
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Sharkie posted:Overqualified for scoring too high on an IQ test, yes. Some context: new London is on the rear end end of the state, inconvenient to pretty much everything, the suburbs are shitholes and the city is worse. Plus it's very close to Groton, and all that comes with a navy town, including contaminated beaches. People, not just police, but a lot of public sector jobs, apply to new London to get a foot in the door, then apply to transfer once their probation period is up. So they expend resources training someone, then have to start all over. I can see why, in that context, they may not want people who give any indicators at all that they may be looking to move on to bigger and better.
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Jan 2, 2015 14:54
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Hardbody posted:The amazing part of this whole thing is you guys paint with such broad and hateful strokes and actually believe your own bullshit. The disconnect is unreal. Cops are basically: In the service of capital? Violent because Americans demand it? Dead of a heart attack?
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Jan 2, 2015 15:06
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SedanChair posted:In the service of capital? Violent because Americans demand it? Dead of a heart attack? Likely to crash a funeral and steal the coffin
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Jan 2, 2015 15:26
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SedanChair posted:In the service of capital? Violent because Americans demand it? Dead of a heart attack? In many cases, yes to all three. Stop painting cops with broad strokes, though. #notallcops
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Jan 2, 2015 15:27
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When a cop kills your dog, you can be 99% sure he won't deceive you into eating it.
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Jan 2, 2015 15:51
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Alastor_the_Stylish posted:When a cop kills your dog, you can be 99% sure he won't deceive you into eating it. I could see it happening in Ohio.
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Jan 2, 2015 16:09
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Like we'd let our prisoners have fresh meat.
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Jan 2, 2015 16:10
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