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Sometimes bloggers write serious and worthwhile articles?
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Jan 4, 2015 21:29
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Sometimes bloggers write serious and worthwhile articles? Yeah, but they can't replace responsible news outlets.
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Jan 4, 2015 21:30
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Neo Rasa posted:Seems like as US citizens the best thing we can do to impact the situation is to move there. This probably won't result in things becoming significantly better for the Palestinians but the settlers' demands of diplomatic expulsions are so at odds with reality that at least the Israeli government's going to be really uncomfortable with its new dilemma. On one hand they've got the option to piss off the US by brushing the attacks against its diplomatic staff under the rug and expelling its diplomats for following up on a citizen's complaint. On the other hand they've got the option to piss off the settlers by ignoring their demands and instead punishing them at least for the rock throwing and allowing the US to investigate like it was trying to.
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Jan 4, 2015 22:12
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Yeah, but they can't replace responsible news outlets. Shame there are so few of those.
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Jan 5, 2015 00:23
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So a rather interesting anecdote started making the rounds yesterday, some bloggers suspect it was leaked by Netanyahu and the ministry of defense which makes sense. Well, some of you might remember that back in 1996 when Shimon Peres was PM Israel got into a skirmish with Hezbollah known as "Operation Grapes of Wrath", the operation gained infamy for one particular incident in which IDF howitzers shelled a UN compound killing a hundred or so civilians taking shelter and several UN soldiers, this incident is known as the first massacre of Kfar Qana. So, yesterday we learned some additional background for this particular incident, turns out a commando unit of the paratroopers brigade (Meglan unit) was operating in the region at the time, they were apparently placing mines on a road near the village, the commander of the unit had apparently thought that the orders he got were not daring enough and on his own accord decided to advance closer to the village and mine additional roads, at this point a Hezbollah squad stationed near by managed to lay an ambush to the unit and attack it with small arms and mortar fire, the fighting intensified and IDF soldiers started dying at an alarming pace when the young brave commander realized he got his unit into deep poo poo and called for a rescue operation on the comms, it was during this rescue operation that the howitzers shelled the nearby UN compound. So, what's the interesting part? That young brave commander who hosed up so bad and got so many of his own soldiers killed is one Mr. Nafatalli Bennet, future prime minister of Israel, who himself commented in his facebook page and said he will not apologize for heroism, I poo poo you not, that's what he said, he referred to himself as a hero for disobeying direct orders and getting his soldiers into an ambush. Now Israeli leftists are trying to paint Bennet as directly responsible for the Kfar Qana massacre and to be honest I feel that's a bit unfair, it was hardly his own decision to bomb the UN compound given that he was taking fire on the ground but this whole incident is definitely indicative of what a fanatic and reckless person that douche is.
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Jan 5, 2015 12:59
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The more you study IDF military history post-1973 the more you realize what an absolute incompetent chickenshit outfit they've become, so none of that really sounds surprising at all.
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Jan 5, 2015 14:05
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I might have the chance to go and listen to Ilan Pappe in a bit. Is he on the level or does he have any unfortunate views or biases? I know CAMERA made a big hooha about him misquoting a Ben-Gurion letter and while I wouldn't normally trust anything they said, it looks like they might be right in this case. I'm happy to put it down to a simple error, because every academic makes them, but reading Finkelstein has made me quite sensitive to this kind of stuff.
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Jan 5, 2015 14:45
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Pappe is a bit weird, he's not much of a historian by his own admission, much like Shlomo Sand he's mostly interested in reconstructing historical narratives but unlike Sand he seems to be a bit too liberal when it comes to facts and historical records, most peculiar is his tendency to translate hebrew passages with a thesaurus so that they come off in the most self serving manner possible, it is very peculiar as Pappe himself is of course an Israeli and a native Hebrew speaker. Ultimately Pappe's views are not controversial but his methodology is very strange and seems to be intent upon presenting the old timey Zionist leadership as Bond villains. For me 'The Ethnic Cleansing Of Palestine' didn't seem to say anything that Finkelstein's 'Image and Reality' didn't say in a more succinct and objective manner. It might still be an interesting lecture I guess but for me he's not the sort of source I like to bring up in discussions. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 15:02
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emanresu tnuocca posted:So a rather interesting anecdote started making the rounds yesterday, some bloggers suspect it was leaked by Netanyahu and the ministry of defense which makes sense. That makes him a coward and a monster, like anyone else who uses mines.
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Jan 5, 2015 15:21
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 The years did not treat Naftali too well.
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Jan 5, 2015 15:43
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Now Israeli leftists are trying to paint Bennet as directly responsible for the Kfar Qana massacre and to be honest I feel that's a bit unfair, it was hardly his own decision to bomb the UN compound given that he was taking fire on the ground but this whole incident is definitely indicative of what a fanatic and reckless person that douche is. Are they? I can't find any of thise accusations in the English language news, just an article from a right-wing site quoting him claiming that left-wingers are blaming him for it, so if they are it doesn't seem to be taking off. Either way, though, he brought it on himself. He's been insisting that IDF soldiers engaged in Protective Edge shouldn't be investigated or charged for alleged misconduct, not even in the case of a unit accused of engaging in "indiscriminate fire" in the streets of Gaza. Now his own misconduct from his IDF days has been dredged up, which apparently was not seriously investigated or punished, and he's been forced to go on-record stating that a) he knowingly and deliberately disobeyed orders in a way that got his unit in serious trouble, and b) the idea that he or anyone else should have been investigated for their role in the incident is ridiculous, even in cases (such as his own) where there was clear misconduct. Kinda puts a big dent in the credibility of his no-investigations stance.
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Jan 5, 2015 15:55
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Main Paineframe posted:Are they? I can't find any of thise accusations in the English language news, just an article from a right-wing site quoting him claiming that left-wingers are blaming him for it, so if they are it doesn't seem to be taking off. It's mostly some media personas, most notable of which is Raviv Drucker, and most of these accusations seem to be in the form of facebook posts but it's funny that Naftali himself chose to comment. Naftali is a big flip-flopper on the issue of disobeying orders, even Netanyahu called him out on this. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 16:03
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That guy sounds like the perfect person to be running Israel based on Protective Edge.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:07
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I'm half convinced he's going to be running the show within 2-4 years. People love him. He loves greater Israel, loves killing arabs, loves apartheid, he's got the chutzpah and he doesn't apologize. The shape of things to come: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeHT9TlrARc
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Jan 5, 2015 16:35
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It's scary how palatable that video probably is to every voter to the right of centre. I'm scared for the future.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:55
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I'm half convinced he's going to be running the show within 2-4 years. People love him. He loves greater Israel, loves killing arabs, loves apartheid, he's got the chutzpah and he doesn't apologize. Hezbollah should not have fired on Israeli troops from UN positions. Once again, Hezbollah displays his cowardice and inspiration for Hamas' tactics that have resulted in the unfortunate destruction of UN positions in Gaza. The Hezbollah commander who fired on Israeli soldiers and began the massacre should be tried at the ICC for crimes against humanity.
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Jan 5, 2015 22:21
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My Imaginary GF posted:The Hezbollah commander who fired on Israeli soldiers and began the massacre should be tried at the ICC for crimes against humanity. OK, go get him. Oops! You don't have any non-coward soldiers to do that!
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Jan 5, 2015 22:30
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I'm half convinced he's going to be running the show within 2-4 years. People love him. He loves greater Israel, loves killing arabs, loves apartheid, he's got the chutzpah and he doesn't apologize. 5 years later, once "C" has been Annexed. - "We must divide Palestine into 3 areas. A, B, and C. C is where our Settlers live, so we must annex it for the sake of our safety. Most the Palestinians live in A and B." Once again, 5 years later, once "C" has been Annexed. - "We must divide Palestine into 3 areas. A, B, and C. C is where our Settlers live, so we must annex it for the sake of our safety. Most the Palestinians live in A and B." And isn't the reason why Palestinians don't live in "C" is because Settlers and the IDF push them out?
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Jan 5, 2015 22:37
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SedanChair posted:OK, go get him. I agree, strikes should be launched to eliminate this individual and bring them to justice. The Geneva Convention does not apply to regimes which employ literal, no-poo poo nazis and architects of shoah. This is what you get when you continue to sympathize with terrorists. This is what happens when you call a nation's armed forces cowards while continuing to dig terrorist tunnels for use in kidnapping and unlawful murder while launching rockets at a democratic nation. Surrender now and show penitance, and trust that Israel will be merciful. To fail to do so guarantees Israel will elect someone who knows no mercy. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 22:37
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Is Hassan Nasrallah posting itt?
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Jan 5, 2015 22:40
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My Imaginary GF posted:The Geneva Convention does not apply to regimes which employ literal, no-poo poo nazis and architects of shoah. Really!
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Jan 5, 2015 22:42
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SedanChair posted:Really! For shoah
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Jan 5, 2015 22:43
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My Imaginary GF posted:The Geneva Convention does not apply to regimes which employ literal, no-poo poo nazis and architects of Nakba. I agree.
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Jan 5, 2015 22:47
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I heard on NPR that after the latest war the majority of Palestinians polled believe violence is an acceptable tactic. This is disappointing. But given the perceived lack of progress made through peaceful means and the disproportionate loss of life and property this isn't surprising.
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Jan 5, 2015 22:48
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Quantum Hitler: necessary to take out at all costs, unless that cost is two teenage soldiers and a Merkava. Then, never mind.
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Jan 5, 2015 22:48
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SedanChair posted:Really! America trusts Israel will be merciful once terrorists admit absolute and complete defeat in this conflict. For that's all it is, a local issue of Israel and insurgency. It's no longer a regional issue, despite what the arab street thinks. The PLO training camps in Africa have been repurposed to a new, global war on terror. The world has moved on from I/P, and the gulf states have quit funding international aid for assisting with anti-Jewish terrorism. The money's now in training and arming Sunni/Shia militia groups to fight over the spoils of Iraq and Syria. Now is the time for Palestinian and other arabs to make peace with Israel, on Israel's terms, and trust their fate to Israeli judgement. Now is not the time to join ICC in order to stir counterproductive anti-semitism on the street in an attempt to refocus back on Israel. The issue is settled: Jews have a right to exist. There is no going back on this issue. Bennet presents novel policy solutions to longstandibg social issues and is an individual whom Americans can work with on the cause of regional peace and security. He is the future of Israel, so long as Palestinian arabs cannot control their radical elements. Cat Mattress posted:I agree. The usage of the term "Nakba" must be dropped before an equitable peace process may begin. To label the existance of a peaceful state as a disaster is to salt the earth before sowing your plowshare. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 22:50
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My Imaginary GF posted:a peaceful state Did we start talking about Comoros?
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Jan 5, 2015 22:54
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Gotta love how MIGF quoted a random post that had absolutely nothing to do with Hezbollah and started preaching about how certain members of terrorist organizations are committing war crimes. No poo poo man. And by the way, all investigations into the affair seem to agree on that fact that the Hezbollah firing position was roughly 200m outside the outer perimeter of the compound, obviously too close for comfort but even 155mm howitzers should be accurate enough, and curiously more than one shell seemed to have hit the refugee center directly, weird. Any words about a prominent Israeli minister explaining in full unapologetic detail his intentions to annex almost the entirety of the west bank and let Palestinians live in walled-off Bantustans in the remainder?
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Jan 5, 2015 22:56
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My Imaginary GF posted:America trusts Israel will be merciful once terrorists admit absolute and complete defeat in this conflict. For that's all it is, a local issue of Israel and insurgency. It's no longer a regional issue, despite what the arab street thinks. The PLO training camps in Africa have been repurposed to a new, global war on terror. The world has moved on from I/P, and the gulf states have quit funding international aid for assisting with anti-Jewish terrorism. The problem you're missing is one that the Palestinians have very funnily saterised before. ISIS and mainstream Israel are much closer bedfellows than Israel and Palestinians or Israel and ISIS. Both support ethnic cleansing and have a view of a religious.racially homogenous region ruled over by force , initiating war crimes with impunity based on the military force they are able to bring to bear against those they wish to oppress and force to obey them. While their long-term views might eventually clash, for the mid-term they are both happy to commit atrocity after atrocity to reinforce their regional supremacy.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:01
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Gotta love how MIGF quoted a random post that had absolutely nothing to do with Hezbollah and started preaching about how certain members of terrorist organizations are committing war crimes. No poo poo man. And by the way, all investigations into the affair seem to agree on that fact that the Hezbollah firing position was roughly 200m outside the outer perimeter of the compound, obviously too close for comfort but even 155mm howitzers should be accurate enough, and curiously more than one shell seemed to have hit the refugee center directly, weird. The only arabs in bantustan stories I've listened to involve gulf state and libyan financing of terrorist training camps. As to 155mm fire, the aim as to reduce Israeli casualties. In order to do so, you engage in a rolling barrage. This is standard artillery doctrine since WW1. In order to reduce the risk of shells falling short on Israeli soldiers while they engaged in an organized retreat, the firing solutions would have to be placed closer to the camp than they would had Hezbollah not engaged in an ambush. You cannot cry about an Israeli massacre when your organization provoked the Israeli by-the-books indirect response.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:03
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My Imaginary GF posted:The only arabs in bantustan stories I've listened to involve gulf state and libyan financing of terrorist training camps. Well then perhaps you should watch the video prepared by Brother Bennet and his friends in the Yesha council that was in that post you quoted? I'm not too certain as to what was the distance between the IDF unit and the Hezbollah mortar encampment, I don't know whether there was a possibility of IDF troops being hit with the 155mm fire. Do you perhaps have a handy map showing the region and the various relevant locations you could use to demonstrate your point?
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Jan 5, 2015 23:09
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team overhead smash posted:The problem you're missing is one that the Palestinians have very funnily saterised before. Khoka!
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Jan 5, 2015 23:12
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My Imaginary GF posted:As to 155mm fire, the aim as to reduce Israeli casualties. In order to do so, you engage in a rolling barrage. This is standard artillery doctrine since WW1. But it takes the courage of an Israel to apply mechanized warfare doctrines to ghettos and refugee camps! That's 21st century thinking.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:12
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My Imaginary GF posted:I agree, strikes should be launched to eliminate this individual and bring them to justice. The Geneva Convention does not apply to regimes which employ literal, no-poo poo nazis and architects of shoah. You... uhh... you do realise which war the Geneva Convention was written in response to, right?
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Jan 5, 2015 23:15
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Look at this degenerate sophistry. If you gave the least poo poo about the safety of your favorite imperial client state you'd want that Bennet shitheel crucified for recklessly exceeding his orders and walking his troops into an ambush. An ambush whose consequences he then so completely failed to manage that his troops fled, yelping, tails between their legs, before a numerically and materially inferior enemy. Instead of arguing for reinforced discipline in the ranks and accountability for worthless officers you burble excuses. You blame a weaker enemy for your side's own ineptitude instead of examining the causes of your ineptitude. No wonder the Israelis haven't won a war against an even marginally equal opponent in over a generation.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:15
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I know everyone denies it post-9/11, but I thought while fighting without uniforms might be a war crime, surely even as an non-uniformed irregular, attacking uniformed soldiers engaged in regular military operations is not itself murder or terrorism. It's just kind of weird to me that a literal Waffen SS officer shootng a GI is A-OK, but if a soldier shoots at even a child without a uniform, and they shoot back, that's murder.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:16
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Well then perhaps you should watch the video prepared by Brother Bennet and his friends in the Yesha council that was in that post you quoted? http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/62D5AA740C14293B85256324005179BE quote:Events prior to the shelling  Hezbollah shells IDF troops under command of Bennett, Bennett calls in artillery support. Artillery support engages in by-the-books counterfire in order to eliminate Hezbollah artillery position and operators. Hezbollah operators are eliminated. If the United Nations wishes to operate in an active warzone, it cannot allow terrorists to operate proximate to UN sites so that ill will may be engendered against Israel when Israel responds to unlawful combatants. The same issue occurs in Gaza: If UN sites cannot secure themself from use by terrorists, Israel will not allow terrorists to operate from the impunity of UN sanctuary. Darth Walrus posted:You... uhh... you do realise which war the Geneva Convention was written in response to, right? Governance of state-on-state conflict. Neither Hamas nor Hezbollah are state combatants: they are terrorist organizations and unlawful combatants.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:30
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My Imaginary GF posted:Hezbollah operators are eliminated. [citation needed]
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Jan 5, 2015 23:33
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My Imaginary GF posted:Governance of state-on-state conflict. Neither Hamas nor Hezbollah are state combatants: they are terrorist organizations and unlawful combatants. Goalpost shift. You used the word 'regime'. As in, government.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:39
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That's a rather horrific report, thanks for posting it, but it doesn't really demonstrate your point about rolling barrages and the such, seems like the cannons managed to hit the mortar site pretty consistently which suggests that the buildings in the center of the compound were target intentionally given the concentration of impacts? Moreover, the report doesn't indicate the position of the commando unit. I really know jackshit about artillery tactics or military tactics in general, it just seems like the report is pretty clear. Not that I think that Hezbollah setting a firing position so close to the compound in the first place is not reprehensible I just think it's pretty obvious that the massive loss of civilian life in this incident was easily avoidable on the IDF's part and thus there is cause to suspect gross negligence at the very least. All of this really has nothing to do with Bennett.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:42
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