Pacific Northwest Thread

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Vavrek: Mar 2, 2013; I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

What composting thing? I live in Portland. There are composting things all the time. I never pay then any mind and am not sure which one you mean, Miss-Bomarc.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 08:47

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 13:16

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Miss-Bomarc posted:

Have we talked about the composting thing yet? I've gone back a couple of pages and didn't see anything about it.

How are they going to assess the fines?

# ? Jan 5, 2015 08:53

PokeJoe: Aug 24, 2004; hail cgatan

Vavrek posted:

What composting thing? I live in Portland. There are composting things all the time. I never pay then any mind and am not sure which one you mean, Miss-Bomarc.

Seattle recently added a $1 fine if more than ~10% of your trash is food waste.

FRINGE posted:

How are they going to assess the fines?

I think your trash man is supposed to eyeball your trash and if it looks excessive he leaves a little notification for you. Its warnings only until June or something like that.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 09:00

Freakazoid_: Jul 5, 2013; Buglord

I'm kind of confused. How is food waste a problem when garbage disposal units are a thing? Or are they talking about food containers that generally have scraps of food in them, like pizza boxes?

# ? Jan 5, 2015 12:28

Peztopiary: Mar 16, 2009; by exmarx

Some people don't recycle at all. This targets that behavior.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 12:51

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

Miss-Bomarc posted:

Have we talked about the composting thing yet? I've gone back a couple of pages and didn't see anything about it.

I've seen some idiots bellyaching on the news sites but no one who actually lives in Seattle has whined. We've already had compost bins provided by waste management for years. I've lived in Seattle for 10 and even my first apartment complex encouraged separating out food waste. The requirement is something that has been slowly eased into place over the years and isn't at all a surprise.

There's also a similar fine that has existed for putting recyclables into your garbage for some time as well. We're above targets for % recycling which is fantastic and honestly I produce far more recyclables than straight garbage these days.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 14:46

oxbrain: Aug 18, 2005; Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip and come on up to the mothership.

http://reuvencarlyle36.com/2015/01/04/coasting-on-fumes-toward-low-taxes-is-this-our-vision/

The WA house finance chair posted this on his website yesterday. It's too good to edit it down so here's the whole thing.

Rep. Reuven Carlyle posted:

There is a public narrative that is so accepted it floats along unmolested by facts on the ground. It has become almost religious in its conviction and unquestioned among elected officials attuned to the public�s frequency: Washington is a high-tax state.

The evidence is overwhelmingly clear that this was the case�in 1995.

Today, we are on the march toward being a low tax, low service state. Of course the public feels as if Washington is a high-tax environment because we are irrationally nickeled and dimed in a fashion that doesn�t track with how people live their lives.

The real measure of whether a state�s revenue is too high, low or just right is whether it meets the needs of its residents. The people, through their voices in government and votes, determine the answer to that statement.

On the revenue side of the ledger, however, it�s useful to unwrap the neatly crafted political rhetoric and look at the data. Not that the data can survive the campaign season�s flamboyance, but it is worth examining if for no other reason than esoteric truth let loose in the world.

The General Accountability Office (GAO) recently released a jolting bit of news, well presented in the Washington Post�s GovBeat, suggesting that tax revenues as a percentage of gross domestic product will not return to the historical high reached in 2007, just before the recession hit, until 2058. Few states show the dramatic change of the �systems issues� identified by the GAO more than Washington.

In 1995, Washington state ranked 11th in the nation in the combined level of all state and local taxes based on personal income, the most commonly used metric by economists to measure tax burden, according to the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, U.S. Census and the state Department of Revenue. State and local taxes include state property, sales, vehicle, liquor and other excise taxes as well as taxes imposed by cities, counties, and special purpose districts and every other category combined.

In 2011, the most recent year that data is available and released in 2014, Washington ranked 35th in the nation in the combined level of all state and local taxes, according to the bureau.

As House Finance chair, I am in no way arguing that any one ranking is perfect�neither 11 nor 35�but rather to make the policy and political case that our 19th Century tax structure is so economically inefficient and unfair that it does not map to our modern economy. The goal is not to be an outlier state at the high or low ends�this is one area where average is a smart target�but rather to be more intelligent by designing a modern system that grows and breathes with the taxpayer�s reality and our economy�s structure.

I maintain my personal philosophical conviction that the best state tax structure is low rates, broadly and fairly applied to everyone with few special breaks. We have the diametric opposite with high rates, narrowly and unfairly applied with hundreds of special tax breaks. It�s unfair to those without lobbyists and campaign cash. Washington�s reliance on a high sales tax, state property tax and gross-receipts business tax is, without qualification, unique in the nation and not in a handsome way.

How did Washington migrate from 11th in the nation to 35th in less than 20 years?

While many anti-tax crusaders argue that government spending is wildly out of control�and there is much legitimate criticism of how tax dollars are spent�the real issue behind the rhetoric is that four structural factors united in the past two decades to erode the state�s main tax base.

First, the sales tax has been carved out by the economy itself. This means, simply, that in today�s service-based economy about 66% of what consumers purchase is not touched by the sales tax, while only about 33% is directly taxed. In 1950, those numbers were reversed and around 1970 it was 50% to 50% (services to goods). And there is the small problem of on-line shopping, where many a sales tax bills are avoided.

Second, the people as the final arbiters of democracy have limited property tax growth to 1% by initiative. Property taxes�initially designed to fund public education�are tactically off the table as a source of revenue growth without genuine structural reform, and each year continue to be a smaller and smaller portion of overall state taxes as larger economic growth occurs in other areas.

Third, the Legislature has essentially carved out and shifted the state�s main business tax, the gross receipts-based business and occupation tax (B&O), by creating hundreds of tax breaks for influential corporations, organizations, industries and economic sectors. In 2013 the state collected a total of $3.0954 billion in B&O taxes. Of this amount, the aerospace sector paid a total aggregate amount of B&O taxes of $71.8 million after all of the credits. The technology sector paid a total aggregate of $28.2 million in state B&O taxes after credits. The entire agriculture, timber and mining sectors in Washington�combined�paid $14.6 million in state B&O taxes after credits, according to the state Department of Revenue.

To be clear: These sectors and industries�and the companies they comprise�also pay various sales, excise, property, unemployment insurance, worker�s compensation and other taxes and fees so calculating their true effective tax rate requires integrating all of the data. Still, the B&O remains our state�s primary business tax and for many of the most profitable global companies the combined state effective tax rate is generally in the very low single digits or even negative range.

To put the corporate taxes in perspective on the spending side, five of the major industries listed�aerospace, information technology, agriculture, timber and mining� in the state paid a total of $114.6 million in state B&O taxes while the base budget from taxpayers to fund the University of Washington alone is $270.9 million. The state general fund budget is $16.9 billion a year or $33.8 billion on a biennial basis.

When a tax break (i.e. tax preference, tax exemption or tax incentive) is adopted by the Legislature for a given company or industry, it is essentially a �tax shift� more than an actual reduction and in most cases the real philosophical losers are at least small businesses�the vast majority of our state�s 345,961 total registered businesses that earn $250,000 per year or less in revenues that don�t receive the preferential treatment.

The cost of granting the tax breaks also disappears into the political mist. In the decade of the 1990s, for example, the Legislature created 103 new tax preferences of the combined 655 total we see today. The total fiscal impact today in foregone revenues is $1.5 billion from those preferences alone. Nowhere does that cost show up on the books. We have created a system where tax breaks are �off-budget� until and unless they are set to expire, and only during the political process of renewing the tax break does the �opportunity cost� of how those dollars are spent surface in the budget process.

Fourth, the Legislature has directed increasing state tax dollars to local governments during this period using a variety of tax instruments that have the net effect of shifting dollars to the local level. Also, nearly 1,800 special purpose taxing districts, such as fire, library, cemetery, flood control, hospital and transit districts, have been created at the local level, so local governments in aggregate now account for a larger portion of revenue growth than the state general fund. This is the policy equivalent of a tax preference for local governments when those dollars would previously have been dedicated to the state�s general fund budget. In many cases, city and county governments are acting as agents of the state, so the transfer of taxing authority is naturally commensurate to the new service obligations. Irrespective of the degree of merit, however, it has taken a major toll on general state revenues.

In all four of these categories there are frequently rational policy reasons for the actions taken. This is art not science and there is no one mystical answer. The challenge arises with the convergence of the four long-term, structural problems when we face a perfect storm of nearly 20 years of tax erosion of the state�s main budget.

The result? A court order to increase funding for public education; a court order to increase funding for mental health services; disastrous cuts to foster youth and children�s services; the doubling of tuition for college students; poorly paid teachers; insufficient investments in Puget Sound cleanup and so much more.

All of these dense policy issues fail to capture the human impact of morally bankrupt tax system. By any standard our tax system has become the most unfair to the middle class and low income in the nation. According to the Institute of Taxation and Economic Policy, the lowest 20% of income earners in Washington�making an average income of $11,500 per year�pay 16.9% of their income in state and local taxes. The national average for this group is 11.1%. The top end�the proverbial one percent earning average income of $1.1 million per year�pay 2.8% of their income in combined taxes in Washington, dramatically less than the 5.6% national average.

We can no longer continue down the same path of tinkering with a broken, unfair and economically inefficient tax system that is divorced from our economy and fails to serve our communities. The 20-year trend shows absolutely no signs of relenting. In a handful of years we are likely to be 40th in the nation in the combined level of state and local taxes based on personal income. And a few years beyond that we can expect to reach 45th. Is that our vision for ourselves? Are we so caustically anti-tax that we would close the doors of our colleges to our own children? Would we close foster homes for our most vulnerable? Would we allow traffic to suffocate our industrial economy and our quality of life?

In an era of divided government, let�s put labels aside and design a modern tax structure that drives us into the future. When it comes to taxes, let�s move toward the national average by building a healthy system that grows with our real economy not our tainted politics.

It�s time for tax reset of our antiquated, outlier system that is responsive to our community needs and built for a 21st Century economy. That�s not a veiled euphemism for an income tax or a shallow retreat into old rhetorical battles. It�s a call for courageous honesty both to raise sufficient revenues and to demand rigorous, authentic and fierce accountability for how those hard-earned tax dollars are invested.

We are an educated, entrepreneurial, innovative state. We are also coasting on fumes from a time when our tax system mapped more intelligently and capably to our role in the global community.

We are so much more than what we�ve become.

Your partner in service,

Reuven.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 07:10

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

But if Boeing paid taxes they might get mad and write a newspiece!

# ? Jan 6, 2015 07:15

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

I don't think there's a broad awareness in WA, and particularly in Seattle, of just how regressive our taxes are. People just don't know. Maybe they don't want to know.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 07:45

Ditocoaf: Jun 1, 2011

Dang. That's a good blogpost.

I could see it maybe spurring a discussion that goes to good places, but I could also see it doing nothing more than stirring up a bunch of the "anti-tax crusaders" he mentioned, who will only interpret him saying "we should raise taxes".

# ? Jan 6, 2015 08:33

Accretionist: Nov 7, 2012; I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

The Oldest Man posted:

I don't think there's a broad awareness in WA, and particularly in Seattle, of just how regressive our taxes are. People just don't know.

There really isn't. I try telling people (on the internet) and I get all kinds of guff. It is frustrating. WA poors are self-oppressing poors.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 09:19

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Accretionist posted:

There really isn't. I try telling people (on the internet) and I get all kinds of guff. It is frustrating. WA poors are self-oppressing poors.

The whole US is that way. The fact that every tv-news outlet still covers "the need for austerity", how taxes ruin business, the "need to reduce the deficit", "job creators", "entitlements are bankrupt", and how corporate bailouts are necessary is probably related. (Fox may be the worst, bet even the best is not that far off message.)

When people tell me they still use "the news" as a source for information it hurts.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 09:37

Accretionist: Nov 7, 2012; I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

FRINGE posted:

The whole US is that way.

It's less demoralizing to think locally.

quote:

"job creators"

Eventually, we'll just call them Creators and gaze in wonderment at their hover yachts from the fields.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 10:48

Ham Equity: Apr 16, 2013; The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.; Grimey Drawer

Accretionist posted:

It's less demoralizing to think locally.

Eventually, we'll just call them Creators and gaze in wonderment at their hover yachts from the fields.

Dude, c'mon, that would never happen; they'll make it illegal for us to look up from our work.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 11:15

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

Accretionist posted:

There really isn't. I try telling people (on the internet) and I get all kinds of guff. It is frustrating. WA poors are self-oppressing poors.

Which is funny, because if you watch TVW legislators actually spend a lot of time talking about how regressive our tax structure is.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 15:24

Peztopiary: Mar 16, 2009; by exmarx

"Should we become 40th in the nation?" A better way to put that would be "should we become Idaho?". I mean that's the choice really. Higher taxes now, or a hollow uneducated workforce later.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 16:11

RuanGacho: Jun 20, 2002; "You're gunna break it!"

I was ready to sing the praises of that little speech until he got the details about local government funding completely wrong. The state pretends to shift funding to the cities by actively trying to make them take on responsibility for more services but at every opportunity takes the revenue that would make it possible and hoards it for itself. When they passed the liquor and spirits law it cut tax revenues into city coffers by 13.6% in my city because unlike under the former laws, those funds were no longer dedicated to go to local government.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 16:53

seiferguy: Jun 9, 2005; FLAWED
INTUITION; Toilet Rascal

I love (read: hate) watching WA state politicians argue about how they can fund higher education without raising taxes. Mind you, the WA state government has been found of being in contempt of court for how horribly it slashed higher education from the budget (WWU's president said state funding went from covering 70% of University expenditures to 30% in the course of two years, Christ).

# ? Jan 6, 2015 16:57

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

RuanGacho posted:

I was ready to sing the praises of that little speech until he got the details about local government funding completely wrong. The state pretends to shift funding to the cities by actively trying to make them take on responsibility for more services but at every opportunity takes the revenue that would make it possible and hoards it for itself. When they passed the liquor and spirits law it cut tax revenues into city coffers by 13.6% in my city because unlike under the former laws, those funds were no longer dedicated to go to local government.

"They" meaning the people who voted for Initiative-1183, you mean? I don't have the text before me, but the design was always to give big-box retailers the freedom to pay the more-impartial state rather than having to go through titchy local governments.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 19:27

Ham Equity: Apr 16, 2013; The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.; Grimey Drawer

That is a pretty good blog post.

It's a shame that Reuven Carlyle only came to these conclusions now, instead of back in 2013 when he introduced the Boeing tax break bill in the legislature.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 21:07

RuanGacho: Jun 20, 2002; "You're gunna break it!"

Gerund posted:

"They" meaning the people who voted for Initiative-1183, you mean? I don't have the text before me, but the design was always to give big-box retailers the freedom to pay the more-impartial state rather than having to go through titchy local governments.

They, the public passed it, the state then failed to give the local governments the share of the taxes they previously got under the law. The public initiative is pretty much whatiswrongwiththecurrenttaxsystem.txt Because none of the taxes are funding services, and the public feels entitled (rightly I think) to services that help make their lives and and business easier.

But no one wants to pay for it. As I've said before, of the property taxes paid in my city 9% goes to the local government, and the city lost over 13% of it's limited revenue when the law changed thanks to the way that the state government keeps snapping up revenue for itself at every opportunity to cover up their own mismanagement. That is why I disagree with the financial chair's blog, local governments somewhere might be getting more money, (He serves Seattle, maybe there?) but not mine, who only made up for the lost revenue thanks to an unrelated sales tax boon that happened just in time not to cause the city to run at a greater deficit.

Thanatosian posted:

That is a pretty good blog post.

It's a shame that Reuven Carlyle only came to these conclusions now, instead of back in 2013 when he introduced the Boeing tax break bill in the legislature.

It's almost as if giving 8 billion dollars away for no reason has consequences :v:

# ? Jan 6, 2015 21:48

OBAMNA PHONE: Aug 7, 2002

RuanGacho posted:

It's almost as if giving 8 billion dollars away for no reason has consequences

Oh, don't forget: it has the consequences of Boeing laying off 2000+ high paying jobs because nobody was smart enough to demand any stipulations.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 22:45

seiferguy: Jun 9, 2005; FLAWED
INTUITION; Toilet Rascal

I'm conflicted over the Boeing tax break. On one hand, they provide 60k relatively high paying jobs to the area, and support tons more jobs indirectly (a ton of their supply base is here, for example). If they left it would have been a tough blow to the economy and all the machinists would have to find new jobs, especially considering several other states were offering the same benefit.

On the other hand, they do this every goddamn time and even though other states provided the tax incentive, it doesn't make it right. Also, they hosed the union over doing it too. And there wasn't another place in the US that could have done it as well as here.

I guess what I'm saying is right now Boeing is a necessary evil that Puget Sound will have to deal with for many years to come.

# ? Jan 7, 2015 00:02

wheez the roux: Aug 2, 2004; THEY SHOULD'VE GIVEN IT TO LYNCH

Death to the Seahawks. Death to Seahawks posters.

seiferguy posted:

I love (read: hate) watching WA state politicians argue about how they can fund higher education without raising taxes. Mind you, the WA state government has been found of being in contempt of court for how horribly it slashed higher education from the budget (WWU's president said state funding went from covering 70% of University expenditures to 30% in the course of two years, Christ).

They did the same to WSU. 50% cut in state funding over 2 years.

# ? Jan 7, 2015 00:28

OBAMNA PHONE: Aug 7, 2002

seiferguy posted:

I'm conflicted over the Boeing tax break. On one hand, they provide 60k relatively high paying jobs to the area, and support tons more jobs indirectly (a ton of their supply base is here, for example). If they left it would have been a tough blow to the economy and all the machinists would have to find new jobs, especially considering several other states were offering the same benefit.

On the other hand, they do this every goddamn time and even though other states provided the tax incentive, it doesn't make it right. Also, they hosed the union over doing it too. And there wasn't another place in the US that could have done it as well as here.

I guess what I'm saying is right now Boeing is a necessary evil that Puget Sound will have to deal with for many years to come.

My counterpoint is that they were extremely unlikely to move production of the 777X elsewhere. They were bluffing and hoping to get as much concessions as they could from the state and citizens while breaking the union.

The lack of talented and experienced workers can be seen from almost 8 years of south carolina-related fuckups (on the second 787 line) that continue to this date.

# ? Jan 7, 2015 00:41

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Sounds like all the insane tax breaks and subsidizes Canada gives it's oil industry when they threaten to... drill oil somewhere else?

# ? Jan 7, 2015 00:45

glowing-fish: Feb 18, 2013; Keep grinding,
I hope you level up!

Well, we've been over thrift stores and guns and dogs and GMOs, and now it is my sad duty to bring gamergate into this thread.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2015/01/gamergate_woman_says_online_ha.html

Apparently, some of the gamergate bunch called in a hostage call to the police, with the former address of a supporter-turned-opponent of gamergate.

Bonus points for Oregon Live using the phrase "ethics in video journalism" seriously.

# ? Jan 7, 2015 01:01

Die Sexmonster!: Nov 30, 2005

glowing-fish posted:

Well, we've been over thrift stores and guns and dogs and GMOs, and now it is my sad duty to bring gamergate into this thread.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2015/01/gamergate_woman_says_online_ha.html

Apparently, some of the gamergate bunch called in a hostage call to the police, with the former address of a supporter-turned-opponent of gamergate.

Bonus points for Oregon Live using the phrase "ethics in video journalism" seriously.

If you support Gamergate, you literally have poo poo for brains.

I've obsessively mastered Mega Man games NES and up and beaten more Final Fantasy games than you have fingers to count. Women are objects at best in most games, rarely more than sexual window dressing. This has been a problem for decades, and being addressed is cause for celebration, not outrage.

I'm not saying this to anyone in particular here, almost everyone knows better.

# ? Jan 7, 2015 02:35

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Pyroxene Stigma posted:

If you support Gamergate, you literally have poo poo for brains.

I've obsessively mastered Mega Man games NES and up and beaten more Final Fantasy games than you have fingers to count. Women are objects at best in most games, rarely more than sexual window dressing. This has been a problem for decades, and being addressed is cause for celebration, not outrage.

I'm not saying this to anyone in particular here, almost everyone knows better.

Wow talk about missing the point, it's got nothing to do with feminism or women in games, it's ACTUALLY about ethics in video game journalism. (also women are all manipulative whores who won't sleep with nice guys like me)

# ? Jan 7, 2015 05:34

Miss-Bomarc: Aug 1, 2009

Tigntink posted:

There's also a similar fine that has existed for putting recyclables into your garbage for some time as well. We're above targets for % recycling which is fantastic and honestly I produce far more recyclables than straight garbage these days.

Cool, thanks! Nice to hear someone who isn't "HUR DURR JUST RECYCLE IT NOT SO HARD U FUCKIN REPUBLICAN".

# ? Jan 7, 2015 06:18

glowing-fish: Feb 18, 2013; Keep grinding,
I hope you level up!

Baronjutter posted:

Wow talk about missing the point, it's got nothing to do with feminism or women in games, it's ACTUALLY about ethics in video game journalism. (also women are all manipulative whores who won't sleep with nice guys like me)

Actually, according to Oregon Live, it is about ethics in video journalism.

Although, in this case, I don't fault old media for not being able to explain the whole thing. There are some things that we would have trouble explaining to our grandparents, and to our grandchildren. But gamer gate is pretty much impossible to explain beyond "its a collective internet tantrum".

# ? Jan 7, 2015 06:30

Ditocoaf: Jun 1, 2011

At a christmas party, someone asked me to explain Gamergate to her. I think she'd heard of it because of some minor celebrity getting harassed, or something. Best I came up with was something like "It was a rabid subculture backlash against the minor progress games and games-writing have made in the last couple years towards inclusivity and feminism. But they'd say it's about something else, because it was a messy shitstorm in general."

There was no point in getting into the "ethics in games journalism" smokescreen, becuase well, the videogame press has always shared a bed with AAA publishers, but this debacle (when it orbited past its proported topic at all) was focused on like, indie games. Indie games getting too much unwarranted attention because of feminism and collusion or something. Oh god I'm frustrated again

# ? Jan 7, 2015 06:40

Space Gopher: Jul 31, 2006; BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.

RuanGacho posted:

I was ready to sing the praises of that little speech until he got the details about local government funding completely wrong. The state pretends to shift funding to the cities by actively trying to make them take on responsibility for more services but at every opportunity takes the revenue that would make it possible and hoards it for itself. When they passed the liquor and spirits law it cut tax revenues into city coffers by 13.6% in my city because unlike under the former laws, those funds were no longer dedicated to go to local government.

The state isn't hoarding money; they're desperately trying to stave off service cuts themselves. Nobody has any money. The fact that sin taxes make up such a big percentage of revenues is a pathetic reflection on how we decide to tax ourselves as a state.

When he talks about "local" government and taxation, he's not doing it from your perspective, either. "Local" doesn't just mean city governments; the financial pinch has forced a lot of localities towards special-purpose levies. That can fill critical needs, but it's also a good way to end up with a shiny new fire station with brand new trucks just down a torn-up road from a school with textbooks from 1983 and a city hall that can't fund itself because the city's discretionary budget is just as hosed as the state's. But, from the taxpayer perspective, they're still paying for the fire levy.

seiferguy posted:

I love (read: hate) watching WA state politicians argue about how they can fund higher education without raising taxes. Mind you, the WA state government has been found of being in contempt of court for how horribly it slashed higher education from the budget (WWU's president said state funding went from covering 70% of University expenditures to 30% in the course of two years, Christ).

The state is in contempt for not fully funding K-12 education. The Supreme Court's ruling found that the constitutional mandate to provide for education as the highest priority does not include higher ed. As a result, the state can do fun things like establish criteria for the need grant program, then not pay the money they've promised to needy students. Better luck next decade, kids!

At this point, the big state schools are barreling towards de-facto privatization. I know that UW is working towards a huge ~$200M life sciences research building funded, not by the state, but by operating dollars coming mostly from tuition with a side of research grant money. That's a massive departure from how big capital expenditures have been handled in the past; it's like the state telling the DoL that they have to raise drivers license fees to build a new office.

# ? Jan 7, 2015 06:44

Ham Equity: Apr 16, 2013; The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.; Grimey Drawer

Ditocoaf posted:

At a christmas party, someone asked me to explain Gamergate to her. I think she'd heard of it because of some minor celebrity getting harassed, or something. Best I came up with was something like "It was a rabid subculture backlash against the minor progress games and games-writing have made in the last couple years towards inclusivity and feminism. But they'd say it's about something else, because it was a messy shitstorm in general."

There was no point in getting into the "ethics in games journalism" smokescreen, becuase well, the videogame press has always shared a bed with AAA publishers, but this debacle (when it orbited past its proported topic at all) was focused on like, indie games. Indie games getting too much unwarranted attention because of feminism and collusion or something. Oh god I'm frustrated again

The easiest way to explain it is "remember Brown v. Board of Education? Gamergaters are the modern-day George Wallace."

# ? Jan 7, 2015 09:15

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

glowing-fish posted:

I don't fault old media for not being able to explain the whole thing. There are some things that we would have trouble explaining to our grandparents, and to our grandchildren. But gamer gate is pretty much impossible to explain beyond "its a collective internet tantrum".

Im about as "new media" steeped as anyone and have avoided the whole thing so much I still dont know much about it other than:

Some woman may or may not have written bad reviews about loving video games.
The shittiest spergs on the planet started threatening women because of this very important topic.

It (seems to me) to be one of the biggest wastes of time and distractions from Real World poo poo in a while. What kind of people read paid-for reviews to decide what to do with their time anymore? Probably none of the people crying about how women are mean.

Space Gopher posted:

it's like the state telling the DoL that they have to raise drivers license fees to build a new office.

Just to be clear - was that an example or a thing that happened? :ohdear:

# ? Jan 7, 2015 09:18

Accretionist: Nov 7, 2012; I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

FRINGE posted:

Im about as "new media" steeped as anyone and have avoided the whole thing so much I still dont know much about it other than:

Some woman may or may not have written bad reviews about loving video games.
The shittiest spergs on the planet started threatening women because of this very important topic.

It (seems to me) to be one of the biggest wastes of time and distractions from Real World poo poo in a while. What kind of people read paid-for reviews to decide what to do with their time anymore? Probably none of the people crying about how women are mean.

Just to be clear - was that an example or a thing that happened?

Where they're at now is hilarious, though. The initial accusations were revealed as mere slander so they're just running off momentum, like Wiley E. Coyote run off a cliff. If they stop screaming, it ends. Their choice is between that and loneliness.

# ? Jan 7, 2015 09:29

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Accretionist posted:

Their choice is between that and loneliness.

Thats probably the most important part of the topic. Its also passively forbidden to discuss how modern life/culture/technology is making people more lonely, stressed, and unhappy.

People who dont have any way/skills to figure out whats wrong "inside" act out in crazy ways to feel like they are part of something.

# ? Jan 7, 2015 09:48

Freakazoid_: Jul 5, 2013; Buglord

FRINGE posted:

It (seems to me) to be one of the biggest wastes of time and distractions from Real World poo poo in a while.

It really is.

# ? Jan 7, 2015 19:53

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

With the exception of pointing your finger and laughing (in true SA tradition)

# ? Jan 7, 2015 20:10

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 13:16

RuanGacho: Jun 20, 2002; "You're gunna break it!"

Space Gopher posted:

The state isn't hoarding money; they're desperately trying to stave off service cuts themselves. Nobody has any money. The fact that sin taxes make up such a big percentage of revenues is a pathetic reflection on how we decide to tax ourselves as a state.

When he talks about "local" government and taxation, he's not doing it from your perspective, either. "Local" doesn't just mean city governments; the financial pinch has forced a lot of localities towards special-purpose levies. That can fill critical needs, but it's also a good way to end up with a shiny new fire station with brand new trucks just down a torn-up road from a school with textbooks from 1983 and a city hall that can't fund itself because the city's discretionary budget is just as hosed as the state's. But, from the taxpayer perspective, they're still paying for the fire levy.

The state is in contempt for not fully funding K-12 education. The Supreme Court's ruling found that the constitutional mandate to provide for education as the highest priority does not include higher ed. As a result, the state can do fun things like establish criteria for the need grant program, then not pay the money they've promised to needy students. Better luck next decade, kids!

At this point, the big state schools are barreling towards de-facto privatization. I know that UW is working towards a huge ~$200M life sciences research building funded, not by the state, but by operating dollars coming mostly from tuition with a side of research grant money. That's a massive departure from how big capital expenditures have been handled in the past; it's like the state telling the DoL that they have to raise drivers license fees to build a new office.

I'm fully aware of the special districts that have been created, but the whole point is the state legislature are the ones who can change how the purse works and every chance they get they rob essential funding from local governments to cover their own ineptitude and malfeasance. On paper it looks like they're funding everything but local tax dollars vanish and services and infrastructure degrade and fade.

Washington needs no better example of how all the bums need to be thrown out than the fact that the Dems are trying to raise revenues with a Tax Increase on Gas. So not only do they pick a consumer good, a regressive tax to fix their budget issues, they pick the one thing that we as a society have set out to use as efficiently as possible. Our current issues funding transportation should be evidence enough but nooooo.

As I said, people are bitching in my town about how their taxes went up in the same letters to the editor that they acknowledge they voted and passed a school bond. The problem is the people who are actually voted into office are the same caliber of thinkers.

# ? Jan 7, 2015 22:22

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Pacific Northwest Thread

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