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Papa Emeritus II, terrorist mastermind?
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Jan 9, 2015 13:40
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Excellent writeup and a bang-up job translating, to boot. 
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Jan 9, 2015 14:06
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voltroon posted:For example, take the "1000 lashes if you don't laugh" cover. What would have been lost from that cartoon if the artist had drawn the character in a way that indicated he was Muslim without using racist indicators? To me, it would have been a more powerful satire because its reach would have been broadened and the message - hey! these guys are saying crazy and terrible things! - wouldn't be lost in the muddle of a strongly negatively loaded image. That was a caricature of Mohammad, and I'm struggling to see what the racial indicators are apart from him being brown and wearing a turban, which would both simply have been accurate. I'm a white guy, and can't as such pretend like I'm any sort of authority or even very good at picking up on subtle racism, but I honestly do not see racism in caricatures of Generic Religion Members published in Charlie Hebdo. Muslims aren't portrayed as sinister-looking or bad as a matter of course. Muslims terrorists certainly are, but Muslim non-terrorists are depicted all the time. The way Charb, for instance, drew a generic Muslim was pretty much the same way he drew a generic white guy, just with tan skin and a turban (or not-a-turban if that's the wrong name, but that cloth headdress thing). Given that pretty much all French Muslims belong to cultures and ethnic groups that fall within the former Ottoman Empire, these seem like pretty tame and understandable, if not downright useful, markers. Always drawing a Muslim with a turban and as an essentially olive-skinned Caucasian could conceivably be considered more racist where I am, in Australia, where the vast majority of Muslims are Indonesian, Indian, or East African. I realise I'm kind of going "no no this isn't racist you see because reasons". I don't really want to do that. I'm a loving white dude, I don't pick up on this stuff so well. But I do really not see Charlie Hebdo's varied depictions of Muslims as being racist or defamatory. When a Muslim features in a CH cartoon, they are not drawn in a way that is supposed to induce ridicule on the basis of race, as far as I can see.
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Jan 9, 2015 14:14
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Exclamation Marx posted:
If that is the cover they are going with then these people have got balls. I like balls. Edit: Oh well then. Gin and Juche fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Jan 9, 2015 |
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Jan 9, 2015 14:18
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Gravel Gravy posted:If that is the cover they are going with then these people have got balls. Sorry, friendo.
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Jan 9, 2015 14:19
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Cat Mattress posted:Because jihadists are proponent of the "clash of civilization" hypothesis and want to see a World War III of the righteous defenders of the faith against the decadent heathens. And considering that there have already been reprisal attacks (firebombs) at mosques in France not one day later, I think the strategy is working pretty well.
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Jan 9, 2015 14:57
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Jan 9, 2015 15:15
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Gravel Gravy posted:If that is the cover they are going with then these people have got balls. To be fair, that's typically something they would do. Regarding the supposed racist/islamophobic tone of Charlie's toons, they really upped their ante after their offices got firebombed for the first Mahomet drawings. And it might reassure the goons here to know (since apparently now France is a fascist-islamophobic hellhole) that there's been some debate here on the same question. The generally accepted outcome was that they were getting really borderline with some cartoons, even in context.
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Jan 9, 2015 15:23
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Flowers For Algeria posted:So. As I promised a few pages ago, here is a page-by-page detail of what a Charlie Hebdo issue generally contains. I took lovely pictures of the issue that came out on the day of the attack. Don't diss the tablecloth. Excellent. Also, holy poo poo, why do people hate the Roma so much? It makes no sense.
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Jan 9, 2015 15:28
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Ruben Bolling has posted two responses to the shootings. One is new: and one is a reprint from 1999, originally drawn about the Kevin Smith movie Dogma: 
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Jan 9, 2015 15:29
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J.A.B.C. posted:Excellent. Also, holy poo poo, why do people hate the Roma so much? It makes no sense. Aren't they like the Jews in past centuries only with much less power / success? e: In the sense that people hate them because they're different and your whole society has hated them for so long that, meh, why not.
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Jan 9, 2015 15:41
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Smudgie Buggler posted:That was a caricature of Mohammad, and I'm struggling to see what the racial indicators are apart from him being brown and wearing a turban, which would both simply have been accurate. Hey, no. I have not seen a person wearing a turban unless they are an imam. Pretty much no one wears a Turban in the Arab world unless they are an Imam. Citation: I'm Algerian. It's not just the big noses, it's the caricature that's been associated time and time again with terrorists and radicals used to represent a generic Arab or even a generic Muslim. Never mind the majority aren't even Arab. Especially that ratty beard and dirty unkempt look.
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Jan 9, 2015 15:49
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Thank you so much for this. It really means quite a lot that you took the time to put this together - every single other news source I've seen has been talking over what this organization meant and was trying to accomplish but I feel infinitely more informed after reading your post then in the last few days of listening to and reading other traditional news sources. Seriously, you should shop this to a news blog or something, get some karma and  out of it.
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Jan 9, 2015 15:49
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Hey, no. Is there a name for that butt-hat that Mohammed is wearing when they put him on the cover?
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Jan 9, 2015 15:51
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Brannock posted:Those are exceptionally good caricatures. Hell the John Boehner Caricature was great as well. I got who he was, didn't even need the spray tan. She's up there with Sutton as a caricaturist. I really like Telnas' work and hope it comes up in the thread more often. We need an edit of that gif, instead of him drinking in preparation of the vote, he needs to be drinking the Tea Party's tears.
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Jan 9, 2015 15:52
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wins.
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J.A.B.C. posted:Excellent. Also, holy poo poo, why do people hate the Roma so much? It makes no sense.
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Jan 9, 2015 15:56
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imgur had a collection of cartoons from Arabic newspapers in response to the attack. "But... he called me a terrorist!"  "This is how we avenge the cartoonists' killer"   "In support of Charlie Hebdo"  "Freedom up in the air"  "Long live satire!" 
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Jan 9, 2015 15:58
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Rigged Death Trap posted:
I watched this documentary (Reel Bad Arabs) a couple of weeks ago and have been thinking about it a lot since the Charlie Hebdo attack. It's a really worthwhile and relatively short film about how Muslims and Arabs are depicted in the movies, and it goes just the same for political cartoons. It's definitely worth a watch if you've got a spare 50 minutes or so because a lot of the offensive stereotypes about Muslims sort of go under the radar because they're so prevalent and are generally unchallenged.
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Jan 9, 2015 15:59
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achillesforever6 posted:Same reason for the historical hatred of the Jews, minority that didn't assimilate to the culture makes it easy to scapegoat them for when there are problems. Also, the fact that they've been marginalized for centuries means that a lot of stereotypes about poverty get associated with them, like transience, stealing, and other crime.
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Jan 9, 2015 15:59
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prefect posted:Is there a name for that butt-hat that Mohammed is wearing when they put him on the cover? I haven't seen anything like it. Specifically butt shaped, mind. Probably just a stylized turban. Bit of a correction: Some wear sorta-turbans. It's the Keffiyeh but wrapped around the head instead of secured with a agaal. But it looks nothing like the popular caricature at all though.
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Jan 9, 2015 16:04
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It kind of does, just not so specifically.
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Jan 9, 2015 16:14
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vyelkin posted:Also, the fact that they've been marginalized for centuries means that a lot of stereotypes about poverty get associated with them, like transience, stealing, and other crime. I ask because I originally thought it was something exclusive to Eastern Europe. When I was serving in Kosovo, there were stories about the Roma Mahala, a sort of exclusive village, being firebombed and vandalized. When I asked the interpreter why people would do something like that, I was told it was the Roma doing it to themselves for sympathy. Also, a whole bunch of racist crap, and even a story about a dad who made his kids beg for money. It's worse than I thought. Sorry, posting from my phone. J.A.B.C. fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jan 9, 2015 |
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Jan 9, 2015 16:17
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I feel like this is a better tribute than all of the cracked fountain pens and pencils I've seen in the last 24 hours. Thanks for doing this for us.
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Jan 9, 2015 16:30
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All art from lucasvarela.blogspot.com   "The empire strokes back"   "Porsche pensioners and the road to ruin"   "Hermione and the midlife crisis" A story for the Potter generation as it hits midlife...The terrors remain, but now they are boredom and disease.   
KoldPT fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jan 9, 2015 |
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Jan 9, 2015 16:36
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zoux posted:imgur had a collection of cartoons from Arabic newspapers in response to the attack. Can you link to the album so I can share them with my editor without letting him know which forums I post on?
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Jan 9, 2015 16:38
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Haha sure http://imgur.com/a/zd5rl/
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Jan 9, 2015 16:42
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Some Crypto-goonism happening I see 
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Jan 9, 2015 16:45
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Flowers For Algeria posted:So. As I promised a few pages ago, here is a page-by-page detail of what a Charlie Hebdo issue generally contains. I took lovely pictures of the issue that came out on the day of the attack. Don't diss the tablecloth. Thank you very much.
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Jan 9, 2015 16:50
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joeburz posted:Third Trimester Gay Abortions are the worst. It's not just you, a strong majority of this thread are against Partial Mirth Abortions.
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Jan 9, 2015 16:55
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Jan 9, 2015 16:57
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KoldPT posted:All art from lucasvarela.blogspot.com The last two are basically "some gizmos".
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Jan 9, 2015 17:03
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Jan 9, 2015 17:12
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Why is the manhole on fire?
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Jan 9, 2015 17:13
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Nosfereefer posted:Why is the manhole on fire? Yours aren't? We've had flaming manholes here in Minneapolis since at least the late-70's. What primitive shithole are you living in?
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Jan 9, 2015 17:14
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Just to pick it up from a few pages ago, Telnaes is the queen of Scalia's.     And other things   
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Jan 9, 2015 17:18
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Excellent post by Flowers. Really needs to be circulated around outside of SA.
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Jan 9, 2015 17:21
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I fukkin love that Joe Biden
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Jan 9, 2015 17:21
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Zeroisanumber posted:Yours aren't? We've had flaming manholes here in Minneapolis since at least the late-70's. Like The Saloon! 
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Jan 9, 2015 17:24
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Flowers For Algeria posted:So there you have it. Thanks a bunch. This is good poo poo. Chewbaccanator posted:Aren't they like the Jews in past centuries only with much less power / success? Well, Jew-hate did have the specific cause that running the local moneylender out of town was a cheap alternative to paying your debts. Jew stereotypes at least have a narrative to them Roma stereotypes are a lot more fanciful and interesting. My favorite is probably "in their culture, non-Roma people don't have property rights. If they want anything you own, they consider it theirs," which I had a bunch of people tell me after my 14-year old neighbor burgled my house to steal my pokémon cards. zoux posted:
I think you meant to say avenge the cartoonists here. This is the best cartoon. Give it three Pulitzers
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Jan 9, 2015 17:24
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I don't read Arabic.
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Jan 9, 2015 17:25
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