|
Tafferling posted:But what if the neonazi is a bloke that comes from a crummy family and has known nothing other than beatings and abuse since age three and sets fire to the NP out of a misguided feeling of self determination? He was still enjoying socioeconomic privilege and advantage within racial power structures, and despite his dismal beginnings, could have easily made himself a success (as he faced no discrimination and basically the third world would have done all the work for him as he oppressed it). However if a brown person, an immigrant, or a muslim was in that situation...
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 12:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 12:07 |
|
|
Tezzor posted:When did I call them that? Oh, you mean the times I called them disseminators of anti-Muslim bigotry. I believe that is pretty well substantiated. Substantiated by the interpretation of a bigotted Francophobic moron who doesn't understand anything about the culture or the situation and claims that his own blinders is the One True Way to interpret things, claiming that Chalie Hebdo was made of Rich White Dudes like Mustapha Ourad or Zineb El Rhazoui. Mandy Thompson posted:Is broad disdain for religion an admirable quality? It is. It is much more admirable than broad disdain for freedom of speech. lurker1981 posted:If they knew there was such a risk of being murdered in cold blood by muslim fundamentalists, why did they choose to do something that they knew would get themselves murdered? He rejected the fake sympathies of the far-right folks who tried to use his comrades' death for their own political gains, despite having an ideology absolutely incompatible with CH. Tezzor posted:I have no substantiation of this. Because you are an ignorant rear end in a top hat who do not have the intellectual capacity to even try to make an effort to understand the situation. You have your narrative "insulting the Prophet PBUH is racist, therefore they are racist, and any claim to the contrary is invented even if they come from Maghrebi coworkers of the journal" and you will stick to it forever. Tezzor posted:
I like that mister "I alone am not a racist" has an encyclopedic knowledge of A Wyatt Mann cartoons and provides us with an endless source of them. Since I have never seen that one before and it is you who is posting it here, I will now form the hypothesis that it is in fact you who are the author of these cartoons. Paul MaudDib posted:And Palestine became Israel in 1946. We are now in 2015, actually. What is your point?
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 12:50
|
|
|
blowfish posted:These are the best things, to reassure ourselves and show to the world that the attackers have not succeeded in intimidating anyone (except terminally retarded goons and thin-skinned idiots with no awareness of their surroundings). Yes, sure, but it's still really only cock waving. I'm pretty sure there are better things to do.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 12:52
|
|
|
Svartvit posted:Yes, sure, but it's still really only cock waving. I'm pretty sure there are better things to do. I believe I understand why you think that, but it's more than that. If the satirists of the world only drew weak comics doing nothing more than saying 'Je Suis Charlie' (and a large number are only doing such) while being unwilling to make anything potentially offensive, then they are doing more to encourage the madness of the terrorists than anyone otherwise. They are, inadvertently, saying that they ARE afraid and CAN be intimidated into silence. While I am not saying this is the best time to wallpaper everything with representations of Mohammed porking a goat, there should still be MORE offensive cartoons rather than less.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 13:02
|
|
|
Or, better idea, you just carry on as normal.Hob_Gadling posted:For arguments sake, let's say that the offices of Hamburger Morgenpost were torched by a Neo-Nazi. How many defenses will we see?
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 13:27
|
|
|
rudatron posted:Or, better idea, you just carry on as normal. Who are you saying are ranting about how islam is evil, for the record?
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 13:35
|
|
|
Tezzor posted:Well, in short, what's special about them is context; the central failing in all "we mock everybody!" arguments. More to the point, however, atheist Islamophobes like to claim that they're just mocking everybody, but they are not mocking them in the same way. They mock everybody's deities, religious figures, and religious leaders, usually using boilerplate juvenile humor that you could apply to anything (Jesus loving Moses in the rear end could just as easily be Germany loving France in the rear end or Obama and Putin or a Sciencefish and a Jesusfish.) A. Because Joshua and David are kind of recurring characters, not leads. So mocking them is kind of meh. B. I wonder how Mormons would answer the question of whether the original prophet of any other major religion was frequently called a pederast... C. Muhammad had sexual relations with children.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 13:39
|
|
|
The Snark posted:I believe I understand why you think that, but it's more than that. If the satirists of the world only drew weak comics doing nothing more than saying 'Je Suis Charlie' (and a large number are only doing such) while being unwilling to make anything potentially offensive, then they are doing more to encourage the madness of the terrorists than anyone otherwise. Going hog wild on offending muslims for the lulz is probably only indulging extremists. It's like you happily just play along in their game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 13:39
|
|
|
Regardless of how deserving you think CH are of the attack, you're surely agreeing that there were many much more deserving targets within France, such as any random-rear end FN bureau. (Don't mistake me as saying I would think FN deserves being shot dead; I'm saying, trying to approach this via the "CH was racist" route must necessarily at one point face the fact that they were quite far away from the top of the racism pole.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 13:46
|
|
|
Svartvit posted:Going hog wild on offending muslims for the lulz is probably only indulging extremists. It's like you happily just play along in their game.  context
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 13:47
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
Svartvit posted:Going hog wild on offending muslims for the lulz is probably only indulging extremists. It's like you happily just play along in their game. Are you saying that they went on a murderous rampage in order to encourage people to make offensive cartoons?
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 13:52
|
|
|
rudatron posted:I guarantee every single person raging about how islam is evil or whatever would come out of the woodwork to excuse their actions. They personally have more in common with the terrorists then the average person. Same poo poo, different flag. If it's all the same to you, please don't speak for me. Thanks. I also happen to think that whoever threw the Molotov should be killed a little for what he did. Feel free to quote this once the guilty party is found out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 14:01
|
|
|
Svartvit posted:Going hog wild on offending muslims for the lulz is probably only indulging extremists. It's like you happily just play along in their game.  After the Piss Christ scandal in Avignon... All the religions down the toilet!
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 14:07
|
|
|
The Snark posted:Who are you saying are ranting about how islam is evil, for the record? rudatron fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jan 11, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 14:16
|
|
|
lurker1981 posted:On an unrelated note, is it true that most French law enforcement folks are completely unarmed? I mean, it makes sense for only criminals to be allowed to have guns in France, but why don't the police have guns?
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 14:58
|
|
|
Most armed policemen would have an issue trying to deal with two trained guys with AK-47's that take them totally unaware.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 15:00
|
|
|
lurker1981 posted:On an unrelated note, is it true that most French law enforcement folks are completely unarmed? I mean, it makes sense for only criminals to be allowed to have guns in France, but why don't the police have guns? Not that it's really relevant to the Charlie Hebdo shooting but private citizens can own guns in France. I don't know where people are getting the idea that they can't. Also, as was mentioned, French cops are armed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 15:10
|
|
|
Soviet Commubot posted:Not that it's really relevant to the Charlie Hebdo shooting but private citizens can own guns in France. I don't know where people are getting the idea that they can't. Also, as was mentioned, French cops are armed. Most americans think Europe works like the UK writ large. Except Switzerland where they think it's some sort of gun Eldorado where you can get any gun anywhere anytime good luck getting bullets
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 15:18
|
|
|
French cops are loving armed. Standing around with MP4s and poo poo half the time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 15:19
|
|
|
Smudgie Buggler posted:French cops are loving armed. Standing around with MP4s and poo poo half the time. Yeah. The first thing you notice after stepping out the plane/train in Paris, and patrolling every major tourist spot on top.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 15:20
|
|
|
I think the most hardcore second amendment doomsayer who happened to be on the scene with four concealed pistols and an open carry bazooka would have been pretty hard pressed to make a difference here. There seems to be a very American wet dream that a bad guy with a gun can always be stopped by a good guy with a gun. In fact it's pretty easy to kill a whole bunch of people with near certainty, if you're a psychotic zealot who sees it as a physics problem and not a moral one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 15:25
|
|
|
All french cops I've ever seen at airports and train stations had heavy weaponry.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 15:27
|
|
|
Tezzor posted:1. Americans stupidly cry about comparatively insignificant loss of life. They are, and you definitely understand the distinction between real satire and the weak poo poo we have in the US. And of course 9/11 found us at our most cowardly and strength-worshiping. No bad songs on the radio, no one can say obviously true things like when Bill Maher made the observation that the attacks were not cowardly. Everyone gasped like "no! It has to be cowardly! It has to be everything that is bad!" Knowing the truth in their hearts. We slip into tacitly shared, unchallengable public fictions really easily in this country.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 15:27
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:They are, and you definitely understand the distinction between real satire and the weak poo poo we have in the US. And of course 9/11 found us at our most cowardly and strength-worshiping. No bad songs on the radio, no one can say obviously true things like when Bill Maher made the observation that the attacks were not cowardly. Everyone gasped like "no! It has to be cowardly! It has to be everything that is bad!" Knowing the truth in their hearts
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 15:35
|
|
|
Agnosticnixie posted:Most americans think Europe works like the UK writ large. Except Switzerland where they think it's some sort of gun Eldorado where you can get any gun anywhere anytime good luck getting bullets It's a discussion I've had a lot lately on Facebook with friends and family back in the States, especially regarding that cop who was filmed being killed. So many people are talking about how he was supposedly unarmed I assumed it was being falsely reported that way but maybe it's just that people don't really want to believe that a good guy with gun doesn't automatically trump a bad guy with a gun. A lot of these people are guys I was in the Army with so they should definitely know better. Smudgie Buggler posted:French cops are loving armed. Standing around with MP4s and poo poo half the time. That's really only in Paris and a few other big cities, but most of the time they just carry a normal semi-auto pistol. There are a few municipal cops who don't carry guns but most cops in France are members of the Police Nationale who are pretty much always armed. Cingulate posted:All french cops I've ever seen at airports and train stations had heavy weaponry. Some of those people with FAMAS rifles are Gendarmes who are like a mix between US state police and National Guard and some of those are actually army personnel as part of the Vigipirate program. I live in a town of about 60,000 people and our train station just has a couple of normal beat cops hanging around.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 15:39
|
|
|
I like the idea of some racist pro-gun guys suddenly calling for a guy called Ahmed to be given a bigger gun.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 15:41
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:I like the idea of some racist pro-gun guys suddenly calling for a guy called Ahmed to be given a bigger gun. Give bigger guns to all white straight men in the police, the rest can make do 
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 15:46
|
|
|
lurker1981 posted:I feel bad for you, as Asperger's can't be fixed with a magic pill. It is deeply racist to believe Muslims are incapable of resisting murderous impulses. Fire has no free will, and does not decide whether to burn objects thrust into it. Tigers are creatures of instinct. Muslims are human beings of free will, despite your attempts to dehumanize them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 15:52
|
|
|
TheImmigrant posted:It is deeply racist to believe Muslims are incapable of resisting murderous impulses. Fire has no free will, and does not decide whether to burn objects thrust into it. Tigers are creatures of instinct. Muslims are human beings of free will, despite your attempts to dehumanize them. Feel free to put lurker on the ignore list, he's either trolling or hopelessly retarded lurker1981 posted:I thought the mercury in vaccines was known to cause a loss of IQ in African-American children, and that mercury was placed in vaccines for the same reason that the CIA distributed crack cocaine and syphilis in lower class African-American parts of the USA: it's easier to manipulate a mentally challenged and diseased populace than a healthy group of voters.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 15:57
|
|
|
TheImmigrant posted:It is deeply racist to believe Muslims are incapable of resisting murderous impulses. Fire has no free will, and does not decide whether to burn objects thrust into it. Tigers are creatures of instinct. Muslims are human beings of free will, despite your attempts to dehumanize them. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 16:02
|
|
|
So what do you guys think of mizanur rahman and his followers on facebook and in real life in london? One of my muslim fb friends liked his status. Wish the middle east would just hurry up and secularise instead.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 16:03
|
|
|
TheImmigrant posted:It is deeply racist to believe Muslims are incapable of resisting murderous impulses. Fire has no free will, and does not decide whether to burn objects thrust into it. Tigers are creatures of instinct. Muslims are human beings of free will, despite your attempts to dehumanize them. A lot of Middle Easterners assume the Muslims will take their porn and their alcohol away,the ones who are into some kind of "same-sex" relationship assume they will be executed. It doesn't help that the birthplace of Islam,itself,doesn't understand that religion or its adherents.It is how you play these impulses out in games,real life or other interactions that defines part of you as a human being.Fire is a tool like anything else,it is just that your decisions can allow it to spread or die.....like some people were talking about Islam. People are free to choose what they follow and how they follow it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 16:17
|
|
|
People should be rewarded or punished primarily for deeds - words and ideas should be as unconstrained as possible. While individual actions must be kept in the greater context of society's direction and prior events, this does not necessarily factor into the dispensation of justice to an individual. Individuals should be protected and given the benefit of the doubt, but in the larger scheme of things a single human being is fairly disposable. Mc Do Well fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Jan 11, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 16:20
|
|
|
I have next to no artistic ability and I don't want to mangle meaning with my terrible French (tbh my french teacher at school was poo poo and I only really made an effort in an attempt to get off with a cute exchange student), but I've got an idea for a cartoon: Charlie Hedbo journalists stand at the gates of heaven. St. Peter looks hesitant "I'm sorry, but we don't like your types here". Insert religious figure of your choice in the background, beyond the gates, sniggering like Muttley. I'd suggest Osama, that would make it work on many different levels.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 16:31
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:Did anybody blame that on political correctness back then Oh yeah, Maher chief among them. Kind of a given since the show he lost in the backlash was literally "Politically Incorrect." Of course, now Maher uses these speech bona fides as a pass to attack all Muslims.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 16:34
|
|
|
I've Just came back from the demonstration in Avignon. There were more people in the demo than inhabitants in the city.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 16:42
|
|
|
ReagaNOMNOMicks posted:I've Just came back from the demonstration in Avignon. There were more people in the demo than inhabitants in the city.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 16:44
|
|
|
Muslims I could't say. Few non-whites in general. Fore reference: Muslims make about 7% of the population. There are no statistics on non-whites, since it's illegal in France to inquire about it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 16:46
|
|
|
I love how oppressed teens speaking their minds and defending their religion the only way they know how is "terrorism", while millions of reactionary white Europeans storming through the streets is a "rally". gently caress the Mainstream Media.
----------------
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 16:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 12:07 |
|
|
Man, I hope CH uses the next week to absolutely chew out anyone trying to use this situation to vilify muslims in general.Narciss posted:I love how oppressed teens speaking their minds and defending their religion the only way they know how is "terrorism", while millions of reactionary white Europeans storming through the streets is a "rally". gently caress the Mainstream Media. I sincerely hope you're not talking about the shooters for your first part of the sentence here. Question, would you also call the rallies in Norway after the Breivik Massacre "Reactionary"? (Yes, I realise he's most likely trolling.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 16:49
|
|
