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ladyboy pancake posted:Whether Latuff himself is Anti-Semitic or not doesn't matter, because his cartoons certainly are and they spread Anti-Semitic ideas throughout the Left thanks to his popularity. Actually, they're not, and don't.
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Jan 15, 2015 20:42
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ladyboy pancake posted:People always bring up that fact that being Anti-Zionist/Pro-Palestine is not inherently Anti-Semitic and stop there. They neglect to recognize that a whole loving lot of Anti-Zionist/Pro-Palestine groups are full of Anti-Semites. Anti-Israel groups have a serious problem with recognizing and policing Anti-Semitism in their own ranks because there's a widespread belief that Anti-Semitism is no longer a huge problem because the Holocaust opened up everyone's eyes and Israel exists now. Because of this, lots of Anti-Semites can infiltrate well-meaning Pro-Palestinian groups and spread their garbage i nthe name of Palestinian oppression and go unchallenged for it. Diaspora Jews constantly find themselves in a position where they have to explain their position on Israel/Palestine, and whether they are Pro- or Anti- will greatly affect how these groups treat them. Even established Pro-Palestine "Good" Jews will regularly have their loyalty tested. Anti-Semitism is especially invisible in America thanks to the "White/PoC" dichotomy that American social justice communities prescribe by without considering how much more complicated it is in countries with much older conceptions on race and ethnicity than the US. Let me get this straight, so because some anti-zionists hate jews as a people that means they all do?
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Jan 15, 2015 20:45
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That's not what I'm saying at all??? I'm saying thatladyboy pancake posted:Anti-Israel groups have a serious problem with recognizing and policing Anti-Semitism in their own ranks
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Jan 15, 2015 20:48
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While we're on the subject of horrible shark cartoons:
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Jan 15, 2015 20:49
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Smells like poo poo in here. Guess I may as well dump these then. 1NERDLINGER!  2Very insensitive to people of color.  3It's very generous to call the Pauls a political dynasty.  4A mixed Disney movie metaphor cartoon.  5Brutal.  6A bloody chainsaw labeled violence.  7
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Jan 15, 2015 20:52
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Internet Webguy posted:It's very generous to call the Pauls a political dynasty. To say nothing of the Romneys aka "Mitt and Mitt Alone"
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Jan 15, 2015 20:55
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Randler posted:I'm not racist against the Iroquois. My criticism is exclusively limited against the Iroquois nation which just happens to coincidentally use Iroquois imagery. Well I see you're just criticizing the actions of my sovereign homela- waaaaitaminute. 
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Jan 15, 2015 20:58
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ladyboy pancake posted:That's not what I'm saying at all??? I'm saying that This is an incredibly broad generalization, have anything to back that up?
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Jan 15, 2015 20:59
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loquacius posted:To say nothing of the Romneys aka "Mitt and Mitt Alone" Mitt's only Mitt because of George though.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:00
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loquacius posted:To say nothing of the Romneys aka "Mitt and Mitt Alone" Probably referring to the fact that Mitt's dad ran for president (though he eventually withdrew from the Republican nomination process) and was also governor of Michigan.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:01
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:This is an incredibly broad generalization, have anything to back that up? Have you been to many anti-Israel protests not organized by Jewish groups? It's a little uncomfortable when there's usually at least a few folks around in the crowd eager to tell you that the goddamn Jews are hiding the truth about the holocaust to keep zionism alive or something.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:01
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Internet Webguy posted:
Metal as gently caress. 
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Jan 15, 2015 21:02
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Portals posted:Speaking of holocaust analogies: Isn't this guy generally kind of a poo poo about transgender people? When did he start caring about them? I mean, it's a good cartoon, but I'm just wondering if he changed at some point.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:02
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Have you been to many anti-Israel protests not organized by Jewish groups? It's a little uncomfortable when there's usually at least a few folks around in the crowd eager to tell you that the goddamn Jews are hiding the truth about the holocaust to keep zionism alive or something. The pseudo-Kristallnacht that happened in France started as a Palestine rally.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:03
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ladyboy pancake posted:The pseudo-Kristallnacht that happened in France started as a Palestine rally. Ergo, anyone speaking out against the atrocities committed by the Israeli national government and military is an anti-semite who needs to be silenced. Gotcha.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:12
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Internet Webguy posted:
How do you even take down a towering skeleton juggernaut? A Gundam?
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Jan 15, 2015 21:20
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majormonotone posted:Isn't this guy generally kind of a poo poo about transgender people? When did he start caring about them? I mean, it's a good cartoon, but I'm just wondering if he changed at some point.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:21
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Actually, it's about ethics in Zionist politics.quote:This is literally what they do, and it's both adorable and good for the industry.   Plus it's actually bad to not shear sheep that are raised and bred for it because they get bloated and unable to function proper. So, an accidentally correct comic.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:23
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Muscle Tracer posted:Ergo, anyone speaking out against the atrocities committed by the Israeli national government and military is an anti-semite who needs to be silenced. Gotcha.  Man, the hypothetical guy who might have said something like this just got theoretically owned
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Jan 15, 2015 21:24
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So much antisemitism chat, so few cartoons.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:25
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Love circular Latuff arguments. Can you guys just get your own soundproof room or something?
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Jan 15, 2015 21:25
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Tater Love 
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Stormageddon posted:Actually, it's about ethics in Zionist politics. Even in the context the cartoonist is trying to use it's a good deal since the wool will grow back and the sheep has a stylish coat.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:25
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Stormageddon posted:So, an accidentally correct comic. Isn't shearing season usually around March/April, though?
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Jan 15, 2015 21:25
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This Latuff chat has managed to be worse than most of the ones I remember from previous threads, so I guess an ominous start for the 2015 thread. R. Mute's posting was gold though.majormonotone posted:Isn't this guy generally kind of a poo poo about transgender people? When did he start caring about them? I mean, it's a good cartoon, but I'm just wondering if he changed at some point. Do you happen to remember the ones where he was lovely about transgender people? I can't recall any, but it's always possible.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:27
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mortal posted:So much antisemitism chat, so few cartoons. I appreciate this edit.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:28
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:How do you even take down a towering skeleton juggernaut? A Gundam? Atlas, actually. Skeletons can only be killed by other skeletons. 
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Jan 15, 2015 21:29
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Randler posted:Isn't shearing season usually around March/April, though? It's pretty much year round. Thus the need for coats for naked sheep during the cold seasons. E: Because now I'm on a kick   
Stormageddon fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Jan 15, 2015 |
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Jan 15, 2015 21:31
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It's simply amazing to me how the thread that regularly makes fun of people who insist they're not racist because they didn't actually draw a black person as an ape can unironically defend antisemitism because it's not as blatant as an A. Wyatt Mann cartoon.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:35
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Muscle Tracer posted:Ergo, anyone speaking out against the atrocities committed by the Israeli national government and military is an anti-semite who needs to be silenced. Gotcha. This is a joke right? Like how can this conversation seriously go "There actually is a fairly serious issue of anti-zionist groups not policing themselves well and having some very troubling anti-Jewish members in them, and those members are used as an excuse to dismiss the entire group so really it hurts everyone" "So you're saying we all hate Jews?!" "No, but there are elements that are not good and there was recently a protest that really creepily turned from anti-zionist to anti-jew in a really public way" "SO YOU SAY WE ALL HATE JEWS?!" Like, are you actually retarded?
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Jan 15, 2015 21:38
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Especially since nobody is calling for anyone to be silenced, they're just saying "Hey, that dude has been p racist at points and that's kinda gross" and a few people in the thread collectively shat themselves because he's never done a blatant racist toon. (except for the ones he did)
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Jan 15, 2015 21:46
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Carlos Latuff is not a political cartoonist, not in the vein that any of the other people posted here are. He has a wider audience, and his works have much more impact. No, Latuff is a propagandist. His art is designed to be put on posters during protest rallies, it is deliberately over-the-top evocative because it needs to be. Latuff's comics open a window into occupied Palestine for people who have never left America, and show his vision of a corrupt Israeli government that is responsible for that occupation He is also almost definitely anti-semitic to some degree. That doesn't really matter though, he's probably the most important artist posted here.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:47
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This is what happens when we go too long without a skeleton frat party.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:48
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Tatum Girlparts posted:This is a joke right? Like how can this conversation seriously go 
SwimmingSpider fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jan 15, 2015 |
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Jan 15, 2015 21:49
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Well that's one way to get Kanji's shadow dungeon even more uncomfortable for people.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:52
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I am Der Sturmer, the True Self.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:54
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I have lurked this thread since last year and I’ve felt really sorry about not being able to contribute. Thus I dug up some cartoons made by arguably the most famous of Finland’s political cartoonists: Kari Suomalainen. He drew daily cartoons from the early 50’s to 1991 when Helsingin Sanomat, the nationwide newspaper he was cartooning for refused to print his cartoons criticizing Somali immigrants, because they were considered to be too racist. After that he drew cartoons irregularly for some minor Finnish newspapers until he passed away in 1999 at the age of 78. His Wikipedia page will answer most of your questions better than I could. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kari_Suomalainen But I can say one thing for sure: He was no angel. I have tried to translate the cartoons to best of my ability and have tried to add some cultural and historical context when required. Most of these have an explanation text under them which is from a collection of his cartoons as far as I've understood. My own notes are in cursive. Keep in mind that most of these are over 20 years old. So, without further ado, let us begin.  11th of January 1991 "Immigration Center" ".. And then the wolf huffed and puffed so much that I escaped in a pumpkin pulled by mice." "Asylum Granted" The plaque on the table contains an idiom which I can't really translate fully. It says: "Tale telling aunt Mielikki" Explanation text: "Immigration center was headed by Mielikki Tenhunen. The stories told by refugees were mostly made up."  1993 "A child patient that has just arrived from Sarajevo" Explanation text: "The readers symphatized with children injured in Sarajevo, who turned out to be full grown muslim soldiers." *This is of course about the Yugoslav wars  30th of September 1989 "Veiled muslim women are decently quiet, but in our country women get into considerable (public) positions to “laukomaan viisauksia”* *Idiom which in the context means say stupid poo poo out aloud. Vara - PJ Sirpa / Vice-chairman Sirpa Due to an idiom the rhyming bit isn't translatable, but it basically says "You can be sure that (Jasser) Arafat is the best guy." Min. Vappu / Minister Vappu "Conscripts should work in day care centers." Puoluesiht. Ulpu / Party Secretary Ulpu "SMP shouldn't have their own opinions." Kulttuuri-min. Anna-Liisa / Culture Minister Anna-Liisa "Who is Eero Järnefelt?" The authors self-insert: "Shut up and put the veil on!!!" Explanation text: Social minister Vappu Taipale had suggested that conscripts* should work as substitutes in day care centers to easen shortage of actual day care nurses. *Finland still has universal male conscription, which means that most males serve from 6 to 12 months in Finnish Defence Forces when they turn 18. I felt the need to add this, because it makes the quote a bit more understandable as in some countries soldiers have a bit of a bad reputation thus making the minister's idea extra bad. The Social democrats party secretary had said that if SMP* didn't agree on taking in refugees, they should get out of the cabinet. *SMP, the predecessor to True Finns the populist party of Finland. Some things really don’t change. In a recent interview the Culture Minister Anna-Liisa Kasurinen had exhibited inadequate knowledge about her own area of work. *Point here being that she “should’ve” known about Järnefelt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eero_J%C3%A4rnefelt  No date. “More foreign aid.” *While the idea that foreign aid is wasted when it doesn't reach the intended target is coherent, the drawing can't be forgiven.  2nd of December 1990 “Homeless, people dying in patient queue, people in poverty trap, etc.” “Guests first!” “The Swedish People’s Partys election slogan: Mandatory Swedish in schools, Mandatory somalians in hotels!” “Police here are friendly, we have arrived in Hölmölä!*” *Hölmölä is a place in finnish tales that has humoristically stupid people living in it. From finnish word hölmö = fool, simpleton. The plaque: Counterfeit passport + transportation 2000$ International human trafficking Explanation text: A human trafficking route organized by mafia had opened from Somalia through Moscow and onwards to Finland. Noticeable about it was the lack of passports and wealth of the arrivals. The Finnish Red Cross was there providing accommodation and the arrival of the colored [sic] people was advocated especially by the Swedish speaking minority. *RKP or the Swedish People's Party is a representative party of the swedish minority in Finland. They have always been a source of hot debate as people tend to perceive them quite negatively due to mandatory swedish in our schools. But the debate and the case isn't quite that clear and has many nuances and because this is the Policartoons thread, I've no need for that derail.  21st of February 1989 “Wanted! Living or preferably dead” “We have judged him to hell, because he thinks that Finnish people should stay masters of their own country.” Explanation text: The Iranian leader Ajatollah Khameini ordered Salman Rushdie, a writer living in England to be murdered due to blasphemy. The prime minister’s aide Keijo Korhonen had reacted with reservations about a possible alien (immigrant) invasion over the borders, ending up being condemned by Paasio, Iivari and the press*. The three persons in the picture are: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pertti_Paasio http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulpu_Iivari The lemming represents the press with the label on the hat being about herd mentality.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:55
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:Do you happen to remember the ones where he was lovely about transgender people? I can't recall any, but it's always possible. I'm curious about these as well.
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Jan 15, 2015 22:05
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Yeah I cannot remember Berge ever doing anything transphobic, and I think this thread would have dogpiled him if he had. EDIT: Looking at his blog, his recent stuff seems sympathetic to transgender people, so take that for what you will. Pants Donkey fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jan 15, 2015 |
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Jan 15, 2015 22:13
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Hazamuth posted:I have lurked this thread since last year and I’ve felt really sorry about not being able to contribute. Cool. Thanks! That first one. Wow. What a way to start a post.
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Jan 15, 2015 22:36
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Ralepozozaxe posted:
I actually encountered this cartoon one time in Twitter when one of Finnish pro-Putin Twitter users claimed that it was Russophobic because obviously that's Putin. When I pointed out it's Netanyahu then suddenly it was completely a-OK.
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