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S.J. posted:Why in the gently caress has someone not mixed Dominions and Ascensions style of market places together? Or have they just done so and I have not played this game? A small number of rotating cards on the board that changes based on the number of players + a set supply of cards to choose from. You're thinking of Thunderstone, whose creators touted it as the "Dominion-killer" and claimed the problems of Dominion were that (A) they literally couldn't buy anything they wanted and win with any deck and (B) there wasn't enough killing. Thunderstone was awful and the only reason why I remember it better is because Ascension is literally a worse version of it. The way Thunderstone works: You have a main supply of cards that can be bought with Gold. There are also character cards in this supply. You have a rotating market of monsters to be killed. In order to kill a monster you have to use an Attack resource on cards (or possibly Magic Attack), and you also need to provide a Light resource or suffer a price inflation based off a monster's position in the market. Monsters killed are worth VP and are added to your deck. They also may provide Gold/Attack or can be used as Action cards. The game ends when the Thunderstone is either collected or reaches the front of the market. The Thunderstone is a massively +VP relic that is shuffled into the bottom cards of the monster deck. Killing monsters grants Experience which can be used to upgrade your character cards without having to purchase them in the supply. The game was poorly balanced (a given, since the creators touted "losing to better players" as a downside of Dominion), long as gently caress, had multiple clashing resources that screwed you over, featured a high luck element, and overall wasn't very good. It was improved in Thunderstone Advance by tightening the game's balance (years of playtesting lets you understand things better, huh? what a shocker) and by allowing players to sacrifice a turn to topdeck cards from their hand which reduced the resource clash somewhat. Then Ascension was like "this needs to be more random, VP needs to be scored outside of your deck, and there needs to be unrestricted action chains left and right."
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Jan 18, 2015 07:54
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The End posted:Ascension has Heavy Infantry, Mystics and Cultists always available for spending your resources on. These aren't really what I mean, although I haven't played Arctic Scavengers but I haven't heard great things about that. The Ascension example is especially bad. Broken Loose posted:You're thinking of Thunderstone, whose creators touted it as the "Dominion-killer" and claimed the problems of Dominion were that (A) they literally couldn't buy anything they wanted and win with any deck and (B) there wasn't enough killing. Thunderstone was awful and the only reason why I remember it better is because Ascension is literally a worse version of it. Yeah gently caress that. Thunderstone always looked like garbage to me. I guess I'm kind of envisioning a small pool of rotating cards available for purchase with a much larger Dominion style stable of options always available, just, like, actually loving playtested? Maybe have the randomized card deck get switched out once or twice per game based on turn number to mix things up? I mean the concept certainly isn't impossible but gently caress, man, it just seems like nobody wants to put the actual work on on a deck builder. I need to buy Puzzle Strike. S.J. fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Jan 18, 2015 |
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Jan 18, 2015 08:10
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My first introduction to Deckbuilders was Marvel Legendary, which I like a lot. That being said I like the Alien version much better since I feel it integrates the theme a little better, with giving you an actual role. Whereas in Marvel Legendary you don't really feel like a superhero you feel more like a SHIELD operative dispatching superheroes to deal with something. I do absolutely adore Trains though (haven't gotten the free standing sequel for it yet though) because I will admit I have a soft spot for trains and I really liked the board where you lay track and direct interaction between the players. Though again I will say it seemed like the board that game with the base game did suffer from a few defects in that there were obvious routes and places to go to get victory and if you placed wrong at the beginning you could really undercut yourself. I don't know if the map pack (which I still have to get) or the map in the Rising Sun standalone expansion improved upon that. I've also been meaning to get to Shadowrun: Crossfire because I like the co-op idea and am a fan of the setting and Core Worlds, both games I own but have yet to get to the table. Much like many of the games I own, this goddamn hobby.
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Jan 18, 2015 08:53
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thespaceinvader posted:On a different note, where does the hivemind sit on Clash of Cultures? I played it for either the second or third time today after a LONG drought (this time with the expansion) and just found it... WAY too fiddly. It has the core of a good game, and I like the tech tree and more importantly, the way the tech tree is designed, the die cut holes work great. But there's just so much to learn and I feel like I have to know all of it and even when I do it's very difficult to know what I should actually be doing and what's important to get now and whether I should be getting this which makes that thing I'm doing cheaper or better or just doing that thing straight away and what you just killed me gently caress arg where did that come from poo poo. I love it. I mean, yeah, it's complex, but considering what it's trying to be it's kind of amazing that you can learn and play a full game in a few hours as opposed to the Civ boardgame's 'entire weekend'. I'm reaching the point where I really feel it needs the expansion to finally come out, though, so that there's some variance in how people play the game. It's too easy to get together a 'build order'.
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Jan 18, 2015 09:16
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echoMateria posted:So ZMAN released OWACON instead of the much awaited expansions of Tragedy Looper. Maybe they got it in a package deal considering it doesn't look half as hot. Christ this video is painful to watch. He spends more time citing examples and just reading off cards than he does explaining how the game actually works. OWACON brief overview so you don't have to sit through it: It's a short (for the genre) worker-placement game with a variety of collectible resources. How you score is largely hidden and determined by cards dealt out at the beginning of the game, and the cards generally modify how much VP (or negative VP) the resources give you. You only know roughly a quarter of the scoring conditions at the start of the game, but you can spend actions to peek at the other hidden scoring conditions. Vasel thinks the game's too random because you don't know enemy victory conditions from the start but for some reason he can't figure out why it's called a deduction game? I'm sure there's no connection there. I haven't played it, but it looks like an okay light worker placement game. I have no idea when the game's supposed to be released, but the international version apparently came out at Essen? Rumors are seeded that apparently Z-Man is improving the components and graphic design of the game for their release. I'd like to try it before making any solid claims on its quality. edit: tangentially related, tragedy looper is back in stock at csi Broken Loose fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Jan 18, 2015 |
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Jan 18, 2015 09:31
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Broken Loose posted:
Just when I thought Tom Vasel and his Vienna Sausage fingers couldn't be any stupider.
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Jan 18, 2015 10:10
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Broken Loose posted:OWACON brief overview so you don't have to sit through it: It's a short (for the genre) worker-placement game with a variety of collectible resources. How you score is largely hidden and determined by cards dealt out at the beginning of the game, and the cards generally modify how much VP (or negative VP) the resources give you. You only know roughly a quarter of the scoring conditions at the start of the game, but you can spend actions to peek at the other hidden scoring conditions. So every player is affected by all the hidden cards in play?
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Jan 18, 2015 10:13
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ThisIsNoZaku posted:So every player is affected by all the hidden cards in play? Yeah, the way it looks is there's 8 total cards that have all the scoring conditions (some of are -VP loss conditions or which can even cancel each other out) and you only know 2 of them at the start of the game. There are crib sheets for each player that show all the possible scoring conditions, so you're not guessing blindly, either.
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Jan 18, 2015 10:46
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Quick Agricola rules question : when using the 'family growth' space can you take more than one new 'baby.' I've always played it as one new disc but my 6 year old just played it thinking he could add two new workers to his newly built rooms, things is I can't see it explicitly stated in the rulebook.
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Jan 18, 2015 10:57
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It's +1 baby only as far as I'm aware.
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Jan 18, 2015 11:00
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Mage knight rules question: What is the timing of the Magical Glade pseudohealing and card draw? Say you end your turn with no wounds on a glade and draw a wound. Do you get to throw it out? Or if you end your turn with a wound, do you draw before throwing the wound away or after?
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Jan 18, 2015 11:16
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BonHair posted:Mage knight rules question: What is the timing of the Magical Glade pseudohealing and card draw? Say you end your turn with no wounds on a glade and draw a wound. Do you get to throw it out? Or if you end your turn with a wound, do you draw before throwing the wound away or after? You deal with the wound before drawing.
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Jan 18, 2015 11:19
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Page 9 of the main rulebook under ending you turn: use glade occurs in step 4, draw cards in step 7. So no, you can't use the glade to heal a wound you draw when you draw cards.
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Jan 18, 2015 11:24
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S.J. posted:Yeah gently caress that. Thunderstone always looked like garbage to me. I guess I'm kind of envisioning a small pool of rotating cards available for purchase with a much larger Dominion style stable of options always available, just, like, actually loving playtested? Maybe have the randomized card deck get switched out once or twice per game based on turn number to mix things up? I hope you're a pedophile because what you are describing is Tanto Cuore  It is basically a exact Dominion clone; but with a rotating line of super cards in addition to the normal "kingdom"  http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/65282/tanto-cuore
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Jan 18, 2015 11:27
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rchandra posted:You deal with the wound before drawing. thespaceinvader posted:Page 9 of the main rulebook under ending you turn: use glade occurs in step 4, draw cards in step 7. So no, you can't use the glade to heal a wound you draw when you draw cards. I knew there would be an answer somewhere, I just couldn't find it. Thanks!
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Jan 18, 2015 11:29
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S.J. posted:Why in the gently caress has someone not mixed Dominions and Ascensions style of market places together? Or have they just done so and I have not played this game? A small number of rotating cards on the board that changes based on the number of players + a set supply of cards to choose from. They kinda already did, it's called the Black Market promo.
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Jan 18, 2015 13:20
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echoMateria posted:So ZMAN released OWACON instead of the much awaited expansions of Tragedy Looper. Maybe they got it in a package deal considering it doesn't look half as hot. OWACON is trash, the hidden victory conditions are all very well but the random take-that spaces feel just as bad as munchkin except they're player limited so it doesn't go on forever. The hidden victory conditions really felt very meh. Normally WP games make you feel like there's never enough time to do everything, right? OWACON made you feel that there's not enough time to do anything at all, which did indeed make it feel random.
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Jan 18, 2015 15:10
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Rutibex posted:I hope you're a pedophile because what you are describing is Tanto Cuore Why do functionally different cards have very similar, but different, artwork? What is this, Highlights: the deck-builder?
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Jan 18, 2015 15:16
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Zark the Damned posted:They kinda already did, it's called the Black Market promo. To clarify, when you play Black Market, you draw three cards from the randomizer deck that aren't part of the current game, and you can use money to buy one of them in the middle of your turn. Of course, it can get broken if a person ends up getting something like Goons or Sea Hag or whatever. Honestly, Black Market's much more interesting in that it's the only card where you can play your treasures before you finish your actions, so it has fun synergy with stuff like Tactician where you can just play all your treasures before doing the actual discarding part of Tactician and still buy something nice.
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Jan 18, 2015 15:20
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Schizoguy posted:Why do functionally different cards have very similar, but different, artwork? What is this, Highlights: the deck-builder? Not to defend Tanto's art, but those are the equivalent of Copper, Silver, Gold in that system.
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Jan 18, 2015 15:20
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thespaceinvader posted:On a different note, where does the hivemind sit on Clash of Cultures? I played it for either the second or third time today after a LONG drought (this time with the expansion) and just found it... WAY too fiddly. It has the core of a good game, and I like the tech tree and more importantly, the way the tech tree is designed, the die cut holes work great. But there's just so much to learn and I feel like I have to know all of it and even when I do it's very difficult to know what I should actually be doing and what's important to get now and whether I should be getting this which makes that thing I'm doing cheaper or better or just doing that thing straight away and what you just killed me gently caress arg where did that come from poo poo. I played half a game of it once, due to time constraints. I liked what I saw, but it sits in the same niche as Eclipse (2-3 hour 4X), and I love Eclipse, so I can't justify buying it.
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Jan 18, 2015 15:22
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silvergoose posted:OWACON is trash, the hidden victory conditions are all very well but the random take-that spaces feel just as bad as munchkin except they're player limited so it doesn't go on forever. The hidden victory conditions really felt very meh. Normally WP games make you feel like there's never enough time to do everything, right? OWACON made you feel that there's not enough time to do anything at all, which did indeed make it feel random. I respect that. I did notice how there's only 5 rounds in the game, which seemed really really short. The "target a player" spots seem bad, now that I've seen what all the spots do in the manual (although Vasel not only didn't mention them, but he probably would have praised them). The concept reminds me of a proof-of-concept prototype I made halfway through last year, which is why I was intrigued at all. It's a shame my concerns that made the game merely okay were much more substantial than I suspected. It seems like this is a game whose short length betrays it, despite being probably a selling point.
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Jan 18, 2015 15:43
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Broken Loose posted:I respect that. I did notice how there's only 5 rounds in the game, which seemed really really short. The "target a player" spots seem bad, now that I've seen what all the spots do in the manual (although Vasel not only didn't mention them, but he probably would have praised them). Yeah, I would agree exactly. If the game were 8 or so rounds, it would feel like you can build up a bit for a round occasionally. With five, it just felt like if you're not desperately scrambling for anything at all with regards to the objectives, you're getting nothing done, and it just felt really unpolished. Extremely anime, though. Very, very anime. Is that a selling point? (no, it's not)
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Jan 18, 2015 15:48
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S.J. posted:These aren't really what I mean, although I haven't played Arctic Scavengers but I haven't heard great things about that. The Ascension example is especially bad. The biggest negative aspect of Artic Scavengers is that it doesn't do a very good job as a deckbuilder. It's only until you absolutely flood the game with all expansions in the box that you actually start to plan out some strategy. Even then, the goal is to always throw some sort of crap into your deck for points, so any hope of an engine happening isn't likely. Of all the deck builders outside of Dominion, I like it best. It plays nice with multiple players and there's not as much shuffling. The theme is pretty interesting as well.
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Jan 18, 2015 15:50
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I'm eyeing an eBay auction for the Dominion Base Cards replacement set, plus Black Market and Envoy promo cards, for $20. I poked around for a bit and this looks like a fair deal; does that sound about right cost-wise?
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Jan 18, 2015 17:51
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jivjov posted:I'm eyeing an eBay auction for the Dominion Base Cards replacement set, plus Black Market and Envoy promo cards, for $20. I poked around for a bit and this looks like a fair deal; does that sound about right cost-wise? Base Cards is $12 on CSI, Envoy is $2.50 on the BGG store, and I recommend against getting Black Market but it's also $2.50. $20 is too much.
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Jan 18, 2015 18:12
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I think that auction was also free shipping, which may offset that some; but I'll give it a look, thanks!
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Jan 18, 2015 18:17
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jivjov posted:I'm eyeing an eBay auction for the Dominion Base Cards replacement set, plus Black Market and Envoy promo cards, for $20. I poked around for a bit and this looks like a fair deal; does that sound about right cost-wise? The BGG store has those two promos for $2.50 each (other promos are $5), and I got Base Cards locally for $15 so that sounds OK assuming shipping isn't awful. Amazon US has Base cards for $11.50 though, so if you're wanting anything else there that would be better.
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Jan 18, 2015 18:18
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Base cards are pretty great because it's a lot easier to notice the difference between copper, silver, and gold at a quick glance
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Jan 18, 2015 18:18
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Back to discussions about building on the theme of Dominion, I've just been sorting out my second edition printing version of Paperback (I'm giving away my original KS edition to my hackspace) and I feel like it could be said to be a genuinely interesting expansion on the concept - crossing Dominion with Scrabble, basically. It's quite simplistic without a lot of expansion potential, but where I really see it having value is as a gateway game - people who are used to word games can play it and get used to the idea of deckbuilding strategy and tactics, and people who are used to Dominion can enjoy it too. I only mention it because right throughout that discussion, I'd more or less forgotten it existed, and it merits a mention.
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Jan 18, 2015 18:24
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KomradeX posted:My first introduction to Deckbuilders was Marvel Legendary, which I like a lot. That being said I like the Alien version much better since I feel it integrates the theme a little better, with giving you an actual role. Whereas in Marvel Legendary you don't really feel like a superhero you feel more like a SHIELD operative dispatching superheroes to deal with something. This theme still doesn't quite work. When four players are successively playing the same superhero, the game turns into Marvel Office Space.
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Jan 18, 2015 18:28
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Legendary works better if you think of the players as the SHIELD agents/Jarvises/Oracles (or equivalent) directing the action from behind the scenes and giving orders to one group of heroes, I think.
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Jan 18, 2015 18:29
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jivjov posted:I think that auction was also free shipping, which may offset that some; but I'll give it a look, thanks! Basically, the only good thing Black Market does is interact with Tactician.
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Jan 18, 2015 18:33
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I love the idea of Black Market. Maybe it ends up not being the most useful, but the concept of having a card that nobody else has is appealing to me.
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Jan 18, 2015 18:46
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I like Black Market too, but it's logistically annoying. We shuffle the stack of randomizers to make the deck (potion cards included IFF we already have them), but you can't just put those in your deck thanks to the backs, and digging for odd cards is a little annoying when you buy them and really annoying when the game is done. I took a bunch of the blank cards and labelled them in pairs A, B, C, etc. Then I put one of blank card A into the deck and put the randomizer on the other copy of blank card A.
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Jan 18, 2015 18:57
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rchandra posted:I like Black Market too, but it's logistically annoying. We shuffle the stack of randomizers to make the deck (potion cards included IFF we already have them), but you can't just put those in your deck thanks to the backs, and digging for odd cards is a little annoying when you buy them and really annoying when the game is done. I took a bunch of the blank cards and labelled them in pairs A, B, C, etc. Then I put one of blank card A into the deck and put the randomizer on the other copy of blank card A. It's interesting because this was something that didn't come up in playtesting, since Donald X's prototype just uses the 10th card of every deck as the randomizer. Also, he considers Tournament a "fixed" variant of Black Market, since it introduces cards from outside the game but in a less haphazard and random way.
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Jan 18, 2015 19:02
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As we all sadly know, Black Market worked much better on isotropic than in real life.
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Jan 18, 2015 19:03
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thespaceinvader posted:Legendary works better if you think of the players as the SHIELD agents/Jarvises/Oracles (or equivalent) directing the action from behind the scenes and giving orders to one group of heroes, I think. Player 1: Iron Man, fly up and get that hostage! Player 2: Iron Man, punch Red Skull in the face! Player 3: Iron Man, shoot Green Goblin! Iron Man:  Broken Loose posted:Basically, the only good thing Black Market does is interact with Tactician. Black Market is a good promo card; a goofy gimmick that's good for a laugh once in a great while.
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Jan 18, 2015 19:04
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Black Market's actual mechanic (play treasure outside the buy phase) is interesting. Black Market as a card (access all the things) is really, really bent if not outright broken due to the amount of cards out there where getting the first one is absolutely vital. Picking up King's Court on the right board is ridiculous, picking up Rebuild similarly so. Or Mountebank or Familiar or Witch when there's no other junking. And conversely, it can be utterly hilariously useless. Picking up Treasure Map, say, or the other couple of examples that i can't quite recall... it's a solid card but the 'play everything' part is silly. PerniciousKnid posted:Player 1: Iron Man, fly up and get that hostage! Iron Man: but boss if I DON;T punch this guy and instead get one more money, I can buy the Tank Missiles and blow the poo poo out of everyone, can you supply me with some resources? Player: Nope. Punch that guy. Iron Man: Punching... Mastermind: Destroys the Tanks Missiles Iron Man:  (I know Iron Man's big card isn't Tank Missiles, but it should be, why did he never use that thing again after Gulmira it was insane)
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Jan 18, 2015 19:13
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rchandra posted:We shuffle the stack of randomizers to make the deck (potion cards included IFF we already have them), but you can't just put those in your deck thanks to the backs Just use the blue backs. Just think of it as another small bonus to buying a black market card.
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Jan 18, 2015 19:24
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