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"Tzipi, Tzipi!  "
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Jan 17, 2015 20:08
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Thanks for the replies, Xander and Miftan.Miftan posted:Both equipmant and care were terrible in my unit. The elite units get treated like they're at a 5 star hotel. Spas on base, the works. If there's anything specific you want to know feel free to ask, because 3 years worth of grudges is a lot to go through. Basically Israel as a conscription state is fairly interesting because it is both extremely well funded externally and its military is pretty constantly active in one way or another. Also universal conscription so double as many candidates. Speaking of which is the IDF truly gender-neutral? I'd assume not. I'd basically have thought they'd have treated even the least important units fairly well, since everybody has to serve and its an opportunity for the State to "sell" itself to you. Does it instead just become its own social heirarchy? "Oh you didn't even become an officer, you must be a lazy pleb," kinda thing. Which would be quite Starship Troopers-y. I'm pretty clueless about military matters but I find the comparison interesting from my cousin's experience because Greece has conscription and is also next to a large historical enemy but apart from that is basically the opposite: tiny military funding, basically militarily inert. I know he still was encouraged to chant "Kill the Turks!" (and refused because he is more balla than I) and there was some attempted indoctrination that was largely not taken seriously due to said tiny funding and intertness. What kind of attempts do the IDF make to "convert" you while they have a captive audience?
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Jan 17, 2015 20:45
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nopantsjack posted:Speaking of which is the IDF truly gender-neutral? I'd assume not. Most women are employed in... "administration" or clerical positions. There's the notion that "hidden unemployment" within the IDF mostly consists of these clerks wasting time while pretending to work. Edit - Oh yeah, every time this debate is brought up, the participants are apparently obliged by law to inform each other that in standard military parlance / radio jargon, male soldiers are referred to as "matches" (the kind that makes fire) while female soldiers are referred to as "skirts". The term "platoon mattress" is not a part of the official parlance, but a fairly popular way to slut-shame. Another saying lists three things an IDF soldier has to do during his service to be considered a "real" soldier: 1. Spend time in a military jail. 2. Kill an Arab (Kill a Terrorist, if the saying is related by a particularly enlightened soldier) 3. Have sex with a superior officer (hiiiiiiilarious "no homo" statement goes here*) * I'll be honest - the IDF is way more comfortable with "no homo" style homo-social pseudo-sexual interplay than any other army I know of. So many jokes or "jokes" that would have gotten people killed in the Red army... quote:I'd basically have thought they'd have treated even the least important units fairly well, since everybody has to serve and its an opportunity for the State to "sell" itself to you. In everyday news, assuming a leftist position in a debate is going to give you a "your probably didn't even serve in a combat unit - that is, if you served at all!" well into your 30's. There's a belief - I don't know how justified it is - that elite units tend to look after their fellow alumni after demobilization much more than regular non-combat units. They sorta function like Ivy league schools / fraternities. However, there's really only one sort of "elite" unit belonging to which will impress people regardless of your personal accomplishments - pilots. The best of the among the brave defenders of Israel have a heroic aura that's practically unmatched. quote:I know he still was encouraged to chant "Kill the Turks!" (and refused because he is more balla than I) and there was some attempted indoctrination that was largely not taken seriously due to said tiny funding and intertness.  As recently as 2010, I know for a fact that going into the recruitment office and going "please enlist me, I really want to kill some Arabs" was considered to be an excellent way to avoid mobilization. Edit - Oh hey, this thing is still around. A comprehensive guide for people who don't care to serve in the IDF (in Russian, naturally). I used to print out sections for appropriate occasions and share them with colleagues... quote:What kind of attempts do the IDF make to "convert" you while they have a captive audience? I served in the IDF airforce museum at Hatzerim. I think every airforce soldier is given the tour as some point, told about their legacy those times we fought in actual wars that threatened the state of Israel. I... kinda almost negelected to bring this up, since being so immersed in interviewing veterans, compiling and archiving information, you stop thinking about it as propaganda, or even history - it's just a job. It certainly worked. The museum had a lot volunteers serving in it - just the place for intelligent people who wouldn't fit into a more strict IDF structure. A photographer spent two years doing good and easy work, when he decided to demand a reclassification of his psych profile (which you can do fairly easily after a period of service with no fuckups) and go into a pilot training course (see above re: pilots). He ended up flunking out (it's a very tough course), and was forced to spend the rest of his service as a regular soldier, with all the unpleasantness involved therein. I actually did my first Avtash with him. That story has a happy ending - despite the officer in charge promising me he's going to draw up a list of complaints that will send me to military jail for a month, it apparently got lost in the mail and I was home free (until the next time). Oh, and the photographer ended up demobilizing and marrying one of the museum guides / models. (Yes, that's absolutely a thing - most of the guides at the airforce museum are chosen for their looks and generally have a modelling career before / after / during their military service). The one serious attempt to "convert" people I actually remember offhand was... vegetarianism. (Soldiers are a captive audience, so depending on the political leaning of their officers, they can be lectured on any numbers of subjects from any numbers of insane and unpleasant people). We had to sit through a whole film trying to make the point that animals slaughtered for meat generally don't enjoy the process. That's how I met one of my best friends in the army - we both objected to the film as irrelevant and brainwashy. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jan 17, 2015 |
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Jan 17, 2015 21:25
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http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4615588,00.htmlquote:Swedish foreign minister not welcome in Israel, offical says Some mature rear end adults right there.
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Jan 18, 2015 10:35
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emanresu tnuocca posted:http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4615588,00.html If I'm reading right, she was still going to make her trip to attend a ceremony for a Swedish Holocaust hero, but she had to cancel when she was not allowed a security detail.
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Jan 18, 2015 12:49
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emanresu tnuocca posted:http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4615588,00.html Well, the US kind of tried the same thing.
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Jan 18, 2015 12:54
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They were basically negging her every request and trying to make the visit as inconvenient as possible until she went "gently caress this noise". Liberman always finds petulant ways to be offensive to foreign dignitaries who aren't supporters of the Greater Israel enterprise, some might remember this:
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Jan 18, 2015 12:56
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That is some impressively passive aggressive poo poo right there.
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Jan 18, 2015 18:15
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InequalityGodzilla posted:That is some impressively passive aggressive poo poo right there. This type of passive aggressive poo poo is super commonplace in foreign affairs.
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Jan 18, 2015 18:23
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emanresu tnuocca posted:http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4615588,00.html They have hurt the feelings of the Israeli people.
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Jan 18, 2015 19:13
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emanresu tnuocca posted:They were basically negging her every request and trying to make the visit as inconvenient as possible until she went "gently caress this noise". Liberman always finds petulant ways to be offensive to foreign dignitaries who aren't supporters of the Greater Israel enterprise, some might remember this: I want to make it clear to any reader who might have the impression that surely, such a moron could not have had any actual experience for his job, that this person has actually spent 15 years in the Israeli Foreign Service.
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Jan 18, 2015 20:05
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I want to make it clear to any reader who might have the impression that surely, such a moron could not have had any actual experience for his job, that this person has actually spent 15 years in the Israeli Foreign Service. Irrelevant really, this was surely done at the behest of Liberman himself. No opinions on the kindergarten video? I was sure you'd enjoy it.
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Jan 18, 2015 20:07
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Irrelevant really, this was surely done at the behest of Liberman himself. Oh, man, do I have to? Fine, let me go watch it. ETA: Jesus Christ, he is the Israeli Mitt Romney. ETA2: Apparently it is illegal in Israel to use children in an election campaign, so we'll see where that goes: quote:"We view the cynical use of small children for election propaganda very gravely," Kadman said. "It is particularly unfortunate that this is done by a big ruling party that is supposed to know the law and respect it." In other news, an alleged attack by Israeli forces killed several Hezbollah operatives, including Jihad Mughniyeh, son of the late Hezbollah leader who was assassinated (allegedly) by Israel years ago. A former head of Israeli Southern Command says the timing may well have to do with the elections, as he's seen this behavior before the last one, when he was still in service. Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jan 18, 2015 |
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Jan 18, 2015 20:19
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Sorry for double-posting, but: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4PyeR1YsD8  (More analysis if you're into that kind of thing)
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Jan 18, 2015 21:17
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InequalityGodzilla posted:That is some impressively passive aggressive poo poo right there. Absurd Alhazred posted:I want to make it clear to any reader who might have the impression that surely, such a moron could not have had any actual experience for his job, that this person has actually spent 15 years in the Israeli Foreign Service. To be fair, that's super common in foreign affairs stuff. You can't really come out and say mean things about the other nation, but you can make little gestures like this to suggest that you don't view the other countries as equals or that you look down on them or that you're not happy with them, and that kind of minor but obviously intentional disrespect can become an issue of national pride and prestige or as an opening step to a series of negotiations. If a country openly snubs the other's representative like that, it's usually an indication that they feel that they're in a strong position, that they have the advantage in negotiations or conflict, or that they're going to do what they want and don't even care about what the other nation thinks.
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Jan 18, 2015 21:27
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Sorry for double-posting, but: "The party’s latest conference, in Ashdod, featured a very unusual guest speaker: Ophir Toubul, editor of radical cultural magazine Café Gibraltar. ”The lower class today has a color,” Touboul said, with Deri sitting to his right. “It is the Mizrahis, the Russians, the Ethiopians, the Druze, the Bedouin, the Arabs… I call on Rabbi Deri to open up the party, to make Shas belong to all the people of Israel, and you might not like what I’m about to say – women, conservatives and seculars, should all be here. What Bennett did in the Jewish Home is what should be done at Shas.” His remarks were met with thunderous applause." What does this refer to?
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Jan 18, 2015 21:28
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Irrelevant really, this was surely done at the behest of Liberman himself. Tzipi! Tzipi, Tzipi!
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Jan 18, 2015 21:29
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Main Paineframe posted:To be fair, that's super common in foreign affairs stuff. You can't really come out and say mean things about the other nation, but you can make little gestures like this to suggest that you don't view the other countries as equals or that you look down on them or that you're not happy with them, and that kind of minor but obviously intentional disrespect can become an issue of national pride and prestige or as an opening step to a series of negotiations. If a country openly snubs the other's representative like that, it's usually an indication that they feel that they're in a strong position, that they have the advantage in negotiations or conflict, or that they're going to do what they want and don't even care about what the other nation thinks. Yeah, but here's the thing: you don't actually spell it out. loving Israel. bpower posted:"The party’s latest conference, in Ashdod, featured a very unusual guest speaker: Ophir Toubul, editor of radical cultural magazine Café Gibraltar. ”The lower class today has a color,” Touboul said, with Deri sitting to his right. “It is the Mizrahis, the Russians, the Ethiopians, the Druze, the Bedouin, the Arabs… I call on Rabbi Deri to open up the party, to make Shas belong to all the people of Israel, and you might not like what I’m about to say – women, conservatives and seculars, should all be here. What Bennett did in the Jewish Home is what should be done at Shas.” His remarks were met with thunderous applause." Probably trying to appeal to a wider audience than just the National Religious/settler sector in their case, or in this case, traditional and Haredi Mizrahi Jews.
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Jan 18, 2015 21:34
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Something needs to be said about Bibi hyping the Daesh/Al Qaeda threat in the course of his elections campaign and then going and killing their enemies for them, in loving Syria.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:36
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Main Paineframe posted:To be fair, that's super common in foreign affairs stuff. You can't really come out and say mean things about the other nation, but you can make little gestures like this to suggest that you don't view the other countries as equals or that you look down on them or that you're not happy with them, and that kind of minor but obviously intentional disrespect can become an issue of national pride and prestige or as an opening step to a series of negotiations. If a country openly snubs the other's representative like that, it's usually an indication that they feel that they're in a strong position, that they have the advantage in negotiations or conflict, or that they're going to do what they want and don't even care about what the other nation thinks. "Armenia is a powerless and poor country."
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Jan 19, 2015 00:37
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Something needs to be said about Bibi hyping the Daesh/Al Qaeda threat in the course of his elections campaign and then going and killing their enemies for them, in loving Syria. See, the problem you and other libtards have is that you refuse to accept the 
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Jan 19, 2015 01:03
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So, Yoav Galant, former commander of the IDF's Southern Command who's now running for the Knesset in Moshe Kahlon's party, was interviewed today and suggested that Jihad Mughniyeh assassination was not a preemptive strike given any particular or time critical threat but rather "not unrelated to the elections". He then says this about the 2012 assassination of Muhammad Jabari (which led to the major escalation leading to 'Pillar of Cloud': "The timing of the assassination was not something that had to be done at a specific date, As the commander of the Southern Command there were many opportunities to have assassinated him prior which I personally have requested, and for some reason it didn't happen earlier". Bennet just had a poo poo fit about these comments by the way. So, is Bibi trying to drum up something with Hezbollah? emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 01:13
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emanresu tnuocca posted:
Third time's the charm!
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Jan 19, 2015 02:25
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What'd have to happen for Netenyahoo to get egg on his face with these actions?
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Jan 19, 2015 03:39
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RandomPauI posted:What'd have to happen for Netenyahoo to get egg on his face with these actions? Someone other than Netanyahu would have to have actual loving charisma in that there political landscape. Then they could actually capitalize on this idiot's repeated faux pas.
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Jan 19, 2015 03:40
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Sorry for double-posting, but: Nothing will ever top this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5wCALTOhCU
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Jan 19, 2015 13:35
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So while all of this other stuff has been going on, a 14 year old Palestinian girl by the name of Malak al Khatib has spent the past three weeks under administrative detention in Sharon prison for the alleged crime of throwing stones at IDF soldiers, earlier today she was supposed to be brought before a military judge but the military attorney didn't show up so she was sent back to prison: https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/16434-israel-continues-to-keep-a-14-year-old-palestinian-girl-under-arrest o139.org points out that the three arsonists who set fire to the bilingual school in Jerusalem were released to their homes following their interrogation, I'd add that as far as I know the settlers who threw stones at the American convoy were never even arrested (could be wrong). 
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Jan 19, 2015 17:32
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I guess this isn't exactly related to I/P but I wasn't sure where else to post it: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-30877296 The Argentinean prosecutor who accused President Kirchner of helping Hezbollah cover up their involvement in the Jewish center bombing last week was just found dead.
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Jan 19, 2015 17:47
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Kim Jong Il posted:Nothing will ever top this. It's hard to follow this thread when you don't know hebrew.
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Jan 19, 2015 18:14
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Grondoth posted:It's hard to follow this thread when you don't know hebrew.
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Jan 19, 2015 19:34
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Uhm so apparently an Iranian general was among those killed by the IDF airtsrike in Syria - http://www.wsj.com/articles/iranian-general-killed-sunday-in-syria-1421678099 And now Israel is deploying Iron Dome batteries along the lebanese border - http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Report-Iron-Dome-deployed-to-northern-Israel-after-alleged-Syria-strike-388266
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Jan 19, 2015 21:28
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Uhm so apparently an Iranian general was among those killed by the IDF airtsrike in Syria - http://www.wsj.com/articles/iranian-general-killed-sunday-in-syria-1421678099 That WSJ article is paywalled. Got a full quote for anyone who doesn't want to give even more money to Rupert Murdoch?
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Jan 19, 2015 22:01
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Darth Walrus posted:That WSJ article is paywalled. Got a full quote for anyone who doesn't want to give even more money to Rupert Murdoch? How do you feel about the Grauniard? ETA: Mysh cartoon regarding the latest alleged Israeli attack on Hezbollah/Iranian targets:  Netanyahu: "Help me help you" Left graph title: Support for PM Netanyahu Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Jan 19, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 22:07
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Pretty chill about them. Ta.
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Jan 19, 2015 23:28
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http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/01/iran-general-killed-israeli-attack-syria.htmlquote:Jihad does not appear to have been a key Hezbollah figure in the attack, however. One of the more central Hezbollah figures killed is Mohammad Ahmad Issa, who Raja News identified as an intelligence official, though other news agencies reported he was a top commander for Iraq and Syria. This whole thing is a little weird.
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Jan 20, 2015 01:37
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emanresu tnuocca posted:http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/01/iran-general-killed-israeli-attack-syria.html Whats so weird? A high-level, pro-nuke hardliner presented himself as a target of oppoetunity. Eliminate him, and you seriously weaken the position of pro-nuke hardliners in Iran.
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Jan 20, 2015 01:45
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emanresu tnuocca posted:http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/01/iran-general-killed-israeli-attack-syria.html It's probably still very fog-of-war/fog-of-classification right now. They can't really hide the funerals as much, so at some point it'll come out, but it's not surprising details are a bit dodgy about a Hezbollah-Iran delegation in Syria getting bombed by (allegedly) the Israelis.
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Jan 20, 2015 01:49
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Think about what could be achieved if every bomb that landed on Gaza actually landed on Hezbollah and Iranian brass.
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Jan 20, 2015 01:50
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Volkerball posted:Think about what could be achieved if every bomb that landed on Gaza actually landed on Hezbollah and Iranian brass. Pretty sure they tried that in 2006 in Lebanon. It failed miserably.
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Jan 20, 2015 01:55
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I hear a lot about Lebanon being a disaster for the IDF, but I'm not au fait with the details. What went wrong, and how bad did it get?
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Jan 20, 2015 01:57
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