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Warcabbit posted:So.. what happens if Mitt gets Jeb as his VP? I'm reminded of the meeting in 2012 between Gingrich and Santorum where they tried to form a unity ticket to take out Mitt, but it all fell apart because they couldn't agree on who got to be President.
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Jan 22, 2015 19:21
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FMguru posted:"We'll keep cashing our paychecks and sending out pleading fundraising memos, but if our guy looks like he might win we'll sabotage his campaign en masse." Yeah, although I'm not sure how I would handle it. I think about it sometimes. If you exposed the affair, you'd be ending your career. No one would ever trust you again, and for good reason - you betrayed someone who trusted you implicitly. If you quit without saying anything, you'd be allowing a candidate that would likely severely damage the Democratic party to potentially win the nomination. There isn't really a "correct" and clearly principled answer. Every option is pretty bad. Perhaps they thought the campaign's message was more important than the man himself. Or they just had suspicions and weren't 100% sure the affair was happening. We'll never really know.
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Jan 22, 2015 19:23
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I'm probably being a pedantic goon, but Hillary/Bill seems fundamentally different than how we have literally had Bush I, then Bush II, and now we're looking at Bush Tres, now with some spicy Gulf coast seasoning. That one actually IS dynastic, while Hillary and Bill are husband and wife. If they WERE grooming Chelsea to run it would be a different story. But it's funny since the 'ugh, dynasty' always seems to be about Hillary, while people just take the prospect of Jeb in stride. Maybe there was more rancor over W. being 'dynastic' in '00 and I was too young to recall.
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Jan 22, 2015 19:34
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Joementum posted:I'm reminded of the meeting in 2012 between Gingrich and Santorum where they tried to form a unity ticket to take out Mitt, but it all fell apart because they couldn't agree on who got to be President. Oh my god, I forgot about that. The amount of ego you need to have in order to even go through the motions of filing a run for president is truly insane.
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Jan 22, 2015 19:35
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ReidRansom posted:In a few centuries Bush and Clinton will be ceremonial titles bestowed on the candidates. And Paul. Maybe the tetrarchy wouldn't be such a bad model of government for the USA.
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Jan 22, 2015 20:16
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:The amount of ego you need to have in order to even go through the motions of filing a run for president is truly insane. Not to mention money and clout. The Presidency is solely the domain of the rich, powerful, egotistical, and well-connected. Actually, so is almost every political office. Every time election talk rolls around, it ends up just being a big reminder of whom this country truly serves.
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Jan 22, 2015 20:30
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Joementum posted:I'm reminded of the meeting in 2012 between Gingrich and Santorum where they tried to form a unity ticket to take out Mitt, but it all fell apart because they couldn't agree on who got to be President. Happening right now. http://news.yahoo.com/mitt-romney-jeb-bush-set-meet-privately-utah-060418301.html quote:Leading potential Republican presidential candidates Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney, who are engaged in a behind-the-scenes competition for dollars and support among party loyalists, are to meet in Utah on Thursday.
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Jan 22, 2015 20:41
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:This will never happen. How about the other way around (Bush/Romney)? Equally unlikely but fun to think about. I honestly think a Jeb Bush/ Chris Christie ticket could be rather formidable. Despite what the conservatives say, they'll vote for Jeb when the time comes and he's absolutely no dummy. I think he'll actually gain points by being ten times more articulate and thoughtful than his brother.
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Jan 22, 2015 20:58
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Warcabbit posted:Happening right now. Hoping for a huge lightning storm to pop up in Utah Thursday night. Man is the winner going to be red faced when it turns out the prize is being runner up in the General.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:00
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Gyges posted:Hoping for a huge lightning storm to pop up in Utah Thursday night. Man is the winner going to be red faced when it turns out the prize is being runner up in the General. No doubt the GOP would spin it as 'God's approval'
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Jan 22, 2015 21:03
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Nessus posted:I'm probably being a pedantic goon, but Hillary/Bill seems fundamentally different than how we have literally had Bush I, then Bush II, and now we're looking at Bush Tres, now with some spicy Gulf coast seasoning. That one actually IS dynastic, while Hillary and Bill are husband and wife. If they WERE grooming Chelsea to run it would be a different story. I think it's more that Hillary seems to have a lock on the nomination right now whereas Jeb is a lot more speculative.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:05
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Yeah, Bush as a dynasty (and the damage that George W. could have on Jeb's chances of winning the general election) is a real issue that will come up once the primaries kick off and the idea of Jeb as the Republican nominee has actual campaigning going for (and against) it, while Hillary as the Democratic nominee may only be a confirmation of running away from happening.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:13
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The sad thing is that it's not even like the original Bush was so massively popular. It's just literal name recognition.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:20
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The sad thing is that it's not even like the original Bush was so massively popular. It's just literal name recognition. Yeah but how many people on the right can't stop wanking over Bush the Lesser? For better or for worse Jeb has a lot of guaranteed votes just because of his last name. All he'd have to do is promise to be just like W and a poo poo load of levers get pulled by default.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:25
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Yeah but how many people on the right can't stop wanking over Bush the Lesser? For better or for worse Jeb has a lot of guaranteed votes just because of his last name. All he'd have to do is promise to be just like W and a poo poo load of levers get pulled by default. Aside from neocons I don't think anyone would want Jeb to govern just like his brother.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:31
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Zwabu posted:Aside from neocons I don't think anyone would want Jeb to govern just like his brother. The amount of "Miss Me Yet?" bumper stickers with a picture of W on them I see around makes me assume the worst.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:39
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Republican machinists are pretty clear they want a guy like Romney, so Bush is perfect. Bush won't say dumb poo poo like multi culturalism has failed or dumb poo poo, but Bush probably will enact new welfare reform by forcing drug tests at the national level.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:40
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Duckbag posted:Well, Edwards himself was an empty suit with a nice head of hair, but some of the words they put in his mouth were good. He was pretty good about actually talking about economic issues and rarely succumbed to the hyperbolic "we must be vigilant" hawktalk that plagues American foreign policy. His aides probably thought they were doing a good thing by shifting the debate a little to the left, whether or not he actually won. Rhetoric influences policy. If people see a Democrat talking like a liberal and getting votes, it changes what is considered politically possible. For decades, people were saying that Kennedy-style liberalism was dead, but Edwards proved that, despite all his real shortcomings as a candidate, the message he laid out still resonated with a lot of people. I'm not sure what's going on here but it sounds exciting
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Jan 22, 2015 22:07
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my bony fealty posted:The amount of "Miss Me Yet?" bumper stickers with a picture of W on them I see around makes me assume the worst. from late 2007 to mid-2011 there was always a palpable stream of "Bush was a RINO! I never supported him!" to distance candidates at the time from him, but I've already started to see the machine work about how good it was during the bush days. I think we're gonna see a lot more of that over the next 20 months
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Jan 22, 2015 22:30
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Jeb has what it takes to put us on the Golden Path. Where his brother has failed, he will succeed.
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Jan 22, 2015 22:45
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Yeah but how many people on the right can't stop wanking over Bush the Lesser? For better or for worse Jeb has a lot of guaranteed votes just because of his last name. All he'd have to do is promise to be just like W and a poo poo load of levers get pulled by default. If he promises to be just like W, he's super done. Maybe, maybe, that'll work for the base but everyone else in the country will be working out for the next few months in order to pull the Hillary lever even harder.
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Jan 22, 2015 22:54
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agent_wildflower posted:Jeb has what it takes to put us on the Golden Path. Where his brother has failed, he will succeed. Defending against terrorism, privatizing social security, and confirming Harriet Miers sounds like a hell of a path.
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Jan 22, 2015 22:56
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Gyges posted:If he promises to be just like W, he's super done. Maybe, maybe, that'll work for the base but everyone else in the country will be working out for the next few months in order to pull the Hillary lever even harder. True, I'm just of the feeling that the right will go for the easy, guaranteed votes. The question is if that block is big enough and if the right can gently caress up election laws enough to sabotage Democrat votes. Really I don't see this one being easy for the right. If Obama winning so hard two elections in a row that the right couldn't even spin it is any indication America is sick of the right's bullshit. Hell look at the numbers of the mid term. If memory serves Democrats got more popular votes by a long shot but the right got more seats. Can't hide poo poo like that forever.
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Jan 22, 2015 23:04
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Gyges posted:If he promises to be just like W, he's super done. Maybe, maybe, that'll work for the base but everyone else in the country will be working out for the next few months in order to pull the Hillary lever even harder. I'll be damned if "compassionate conservatism" makes a comeback after seeing how everything went to poo poo during my late preteen to teen years.
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Jan 22, 2015 23:05
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:I'll be damned if "compassionate conservatism" makes a comeback after seeing how everything went to poo poo during my late preteen to teen years. Contemporary conservatism can't call itself compassionate. Like, at all.
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Jan 22, 2015 23:06
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Really I don't see this one being easy for the right. If Obama winning so hard two elections in a row that the right couldn't even spin it is any indication America is sick of the right's bullshit. Hell look at the numbers of the mid term. If memory serves Democrats got more popular votes by a long shot but the right got more seats. Can't hide poo poo like that forever. Especially since all the GOP ran on in 2012 was "the economy sucks" and how you needed Mr. Businessman Romney to come in and fix it. Unless something bad happens in the interim they will need a different thing to run on which probably won't be as effective.
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Jan 22, 2015 23:10
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  I mean.
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Jan 22, 2015 23:11
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/22/mitt-romney-climate-change-is-real-human-induced-a/quote:Former Mass. Gov. Mitt Romney, who’s contemplating another White House run, said climate change was real, that humans helped it along and that it was the responsibility of the world to turn back the environmental tide. Well....ummm...that was a little unexpected.
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Jan 22, 2015 23:26
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The new classic republican problem - you can either position for the general now and lose the primary, or position for the primary now and lose the election. Mitt seems to have gone for option A.
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Jan 22, 2015 23:38
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CommieGIR posted:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/22/mitt-romney-climate-change-is-real-human-induced-a/ By acting as though he's already the candidate for the general, he's attempting to preempt the usual need to cater to the crazies during the primary, and indeed to position himself as the natural candidate who all the others must try to define themselves against. The problem, which Disinterested notes, is that the GOP practice for two elections now is for the primary to be a crazy-off between frothing lunatics and a few tepid money Republicans who have to act at least as nuts to avoid alienating the party base, so this could well backfire.
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Jan 22, 2015 23:46
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CommieGIR posted:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/22/mitt-romney-climate-change-is-real-human-induced-a/ First Jeb, now Mitt, looks like Republicans who are terrified about the governmental inaction on climate change actually have a candidate to vote for.
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Jan 22, 2015 23:46
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I like to imagine he has achieved his final Enlightened form and now is endeavoring to save the world from itself like ozymandias, starting with the dismantling of the GOP. of course that's not the case but we can dream
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Jan 22, 2015 23:46
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Jan 23, 2015 00:05
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Rodatose posted:I like to imagine he has achieved his final Enlightened form and now is endeavoring to save the world from itself like ozymandias, starting with the dismantling of the GOP. 
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Jan 23, 2015 00:09
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Maybe he's doubling down on the etch-a-sketch plan. He stakes out lefty rhetorical positions on high-profile issues now, to get those quotes out there under his name, and accepts that it will hurt him in the primary. When the primary comes he'll tack back rightwards enough to win (combined with dumping money into the contest) and count on the lunatics to steal the show by advocating genocide or fascism or what have you, and distract moderates from how Mitt's gone rightwards again. He secures the nomination and calmly turns lefty again, giving lip service to climate change and inequality in order to secure crucial votes from... moderates who would rather not vote for Hillary?
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Jan 23, 2015 00:33
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Disinterested posted:The new classic republican problem - you can either position for the general now and lose the primary, or position for the primary now and lose the election. Mitt seems to have gone for option A. Well, he did try option B last time. Even rudimentary AI knows to try another option after failing.
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Jan 23, 2015 00:50
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Gyges posted:Well, he did try option B last time. Even rudimentary AI knows to try another option after failing. Nah man, he always hated healthcare. I'm still amazed his mormonism wasn't a bigger deal last time.
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Jan 23, 2015 00:51
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I'm amazed that Scott Walker, an unattractive, chinless, weirdly balding guy with a poor jobs record and the subject of a recall election, is polling so strongly. He's like this cycle's Pawlenty; a VP candidate at best.
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Jan 23, 2015 01:08
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Cigar Aficionado posted:I'm amazed that Scott Walker, an unattractive, chinless, weirdly balding guy with a poor jobs record and the subject of a recall election, is polling so strongly. He's like this cycle's Pawlenty; a VP candidate at best. He made liberals really mad that one time. No really that's it.
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Jan 23, 2015 01:12
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Good Citizen posted:He made liberals really mad that one time. That, and as has been the case for the last two presidential cycles, the GOP's bench is mostly lightweights, has-beens, and also-rans. Among such company there's plenty of room for someone as unaccomplished as Walker.
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Jan 23, 2015 01:31
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