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Man, you guys sure do hate this movie, lol.
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Jan 26, 2015 03:08
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I don't know what you want me to say, it was garbage, top to bottom.
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Jan 26, 2015 03:10
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The fact that so many better films got snubbed for a BP nod in favor of American Sniper is just mindblowing.
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Jan 26, 2015 03:11
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Even the trailer put me off a bit initially. The phrase "They fry you if you're wrong" is completely untrue and anyone who has an ounce of military history/engagement knowledge knows it. The last military execution was about half a century ago. What this line ALSO does is give the impression that every single death in Iraq (women and children included) are justifiable because if they weren't, Soldiers would be executed left and right based on that information. It's a huge affront to the reality of the conflict. It's inherently problematic as it essentially justifies the entire military aspect of the conflict. It makes Kyle a conflicted character facing death on and off the battlefield, under a microscope, who is conflicted about what he is doing rather than a guy who really just likes to kill people to look like a bad rear end.
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Jan 26, 2015 03:13
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I don't know what you want me to say, it was garbage, top to bottom. That's all you need to say. Grizzled Patriarch posted:The fact that so many better films got snubbed for a BP nod in favor of American Sniper is just mindblowing. Best Actor too. David Oyelowo, Jake Gyllenhaal or Jack O'Connell should have been there over Cooper.
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Jan 26, 2015 03:14
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teagone posted:That's all you need to say. It just bothers me because Clint was a good director once upon a time and this is the work of a hack. He should've Alan Smithee'd this, but he's 84 years old so he might not know what's what these days. mugrim posted:What this line ALSO does is give the impression that every single death in Iraq (women and children included) are justifiable because if they weren't, Soldiers would be executed left and right based on that information. It's a huge affront to the reality of the conflict. It's inherently problematic as it essentially justifies the entire military aspect of the conflict. Haha, exactly. Who's been "fried" for all the insanely bad decisions made at practically every level of coalition occupation of Iraq?
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Jan 26, 2015 03:20
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mugrim posted:Even the trailer put me off a bit initially. The phrase "They fry you if you're wrong" is completely untrue and anyone who has an ounce of military history/engagement knowledge knows it. The last military execution was about half a century ago. It also sinks any emotional weight the scene could have by making it seem like he's more worried about breaking ROE than he is about killing an innocent. It's kind of telling that the film cuts to hunting deer instead of depicting any aftermath of his decision to pull the trigger (which is, you know, what makes being a sniper so potentially traumatic in the first place)
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Jan 26, 2015 03:22
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teagone posted:Chill. I said I didn't read the book and just asked for some sources is all. I was presented with lines of text that seemed out of context. But with all the poo poo you just said, ok cool I get it. Kyle was probably a lying piece of poo poo who got a movie made about his supposed exploits as a SEAL sniper and general real life "badassery". He's dead now though. Are you trying to convince me that American Sniper paints a disgusting picture of America's prejudice towards Iraq and Muslims through the eyes of a sociopathic rear end in a top hat? Because I honestly don't give a poo poo about Kyle's viewpoints or who he was. I'm willing to bet like every 3 out of 4 SEALs are just like him anyways. It should disturb you that the SEALs are apparantly a step away from being SS Einsatzgruppen
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Jan 26, 2015 04:16
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icantfindaname posted:It should disturb you that the SEALs are apparantly a step away from being SS Einsatzgruppen Aren't they though?
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Jan 26, 2015 04:49
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Well yeah, they are, that's the point. It's bad, and it's also a legitimate criticism of the movie that it glorifies that. You don't have to care personally, but to say the criticism that the movie is basically Nazi propaganda is wrong is insane. If you really don't care then don't say anything either way
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Jan 26, 2015 05:37
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Fangz posted:Killing hundreds of people at a great distance under rules of engagement he understood as making everyone male between 16 and 65 a legitimate target makes him almost certainly a war criminal. Lol where do you people get this crap?
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Jan 26, 2015 05:39
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zVxTeflon posted:Lol where do you people get this crap? Directly from his autobiography, where he is discussing how lax ROE is: “If you see anyone from about sixteen to sixty-five and they’re male, shoot ‘em. Kill every male you see.” edit: Which sounds about right, considering his claimed kill count is more than twice as high as the deadliest snipers in Vietnam. Maybe it's not really a big deal, but I always thought it was kind of odd how many more kills he had than anyone else in Iraq or Afghanistan. Maybe his quote above is full of poo poo, he certainly has no qualms about lying. But his kill count would certainly make more sense if half of the Iraqi population was considered a legitimate target. Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Jan 26, 2015 |
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Jan 26, 2015 05:42
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I mean the part where the dude is certain it makes him a war criminal
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Jan 26, 2015 05:45
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If you are shooting people based solely on their age and gender rather than the fact that they pose an identifiable risk to coalition forces, then yes, that probably qualifies as a war crime. Certainly not every Iraqi male between 16-65 was an enemy combatant.
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Jan 26, 2015 05:51
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teagone posted:Man, you guys sure do hate this movie, lol. Well, it's a piece of poo poo film in just about every single way.
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Jan 26, 2015 05:53
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icantfindaname posted:Well yeah, they are, that's the point. It's bad, and it's also a legitimate criticism of the movie that it glorifies that. You don't have to care personally, but to say the criticism that the movie is basically Nazi propaganda is wrong is insane. If you really don't care then don't say anything either way I never said the criticism of the movie being like Nazi propaganda was wrong. I said I didn't care about Kyle's real life opinions.
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Jan 26, 2015 06:28
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teagone posted:I never said the criticism of the movie being like Nazi propaganda was wrong. So if you saw a well shot "David Duke: The Real Story" where a young idealistic man is attacked by gangs and fights back against them, and starts a movement to clean up the streets with his friends against a political establishment that ignores the pain of his people, would you care about who Duke actually was? What his real opinions were? That's the problem with portraying people who are real and rewriting history with them. You can make the same movie and just rewrite the name as someone else, the point of using a real name is to discuss a real thing that happened. Doing all of these things and then being dishonest with the source material is problematic for a ton of reasons.
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Jan 26, 2015 06:45
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mugrim posted:So if you saw a well shot "David Duke: The Real Story" where a young idealistic man is attacked by gangs and fights back against them, and starts a movement to clean up the streets with his friends against a political establishment that ignores the pain of his people, would you care about who Duke actually was? What his real opinions were? George W. Bush: Intergalactic Hero coming to theaters near you.
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Jan 26, 2015 07:31
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This thread is going to be glorious if American Sniper wins Best Picture. Will the  be bigger than the time Crash or Shakespeare in Love won Best Picture?
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Jan 26, 2015 08:07
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I think even the old fudds calling the shots for the AAs realize that they would lose every last ounce of legitimacy if this movie wins Best Picture. There's literally no way to justify it on its merits as a film, and I can't see a voting majority being in line with the agenda it promotes either. The backlash would probably be more severe than it was for Crash and Shakespeare in Love, yes, though at least SiL had some redeeming qualities. edit: Also, someone mentioned a while back that making all these truckloads of money might actually hurt its chances of winning more than help it, but I don't know enough about the award system to know whether that's true or not. Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Jan 26, 2015 |
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Jan 26, 2015 08:19
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:
Has a 72 on metacritic and 73% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes (83% among top critics, which is unusual for a movie to have a higher percentage among them). Who are these hordes of critics that are panning it on artistic merit rather than on the political?
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Jan 26, 2015 08:50
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Yes, I don't know, it felt fine in the technical side and it's not like I see a movie every once in a while.Android Bicyclist posted:This thread is going to be glorious if American Sniper wins Best Picture. Will the  Wouldn't be surprised. Azran fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Jan 26, 2015 |
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Jan 26, 2015 09:26
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2/3 of my friends who saw American Sniper told me they loved it. One of them said it was one of the best movies he's ever seen. The third friend told me that he didn't really know what to think and had to let it digest and we never spoke of it again. I just finished watching this tonight and I told my "best movie ever" friend that it sucked. He called me an idiot. I can't wait to argue with him about it tomorrow. Out of everything else lovely about the movie the thing that really drove it home for me was the line: "That's over a mile - an impossible shot!" I imdb'd the screenwriter and he's only written two other movies. It sucks that this movie's success will land him more work but at least now I know to avoid movies with the tagline "from the writer of American Sniper."
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Jan 26, 2015 10:18
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Azran posted:Yes, I don't know, it felt fine in the technical side and it's not like I see a movie every once in a while. Tomei is fantastic in that.
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Jan 26, 2015 13:23
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420DD Butts posted:George W. Bush: Intergalactic Hero coming to theaters near you. I would watch the poo poo out of this actually.
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Jan 26, 2015 16:51
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Holy poo poo watching "news" segments about this movie on CNN(not even Fox News!) is unbelievably aggravating. They're lining up veterans and grandstanding politicians to talk about how amazing the movie is and what a True American Hero Kyle was. The host throws them some softball questions so they can shoot down any criticisms with ease. Host: "One thing I wonder about, why the need to embellish the story, to add too it? I've been hearing that some of the stuff here, for instance with the enemy sniper, didn't happen the way its portrayed in the movie." Guest: "Well I don't know about those details, but I've heard that this portrayal we have here is very, very accurate. And what I do know is that this man was a true hero, someone for all Americans to look up to and model themselves after." *Host nods sagely* I paraphrased a little just because I couldn't remember exact phrasing but this exchange happened on loving CNN. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Jan 26, 2015 |
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Jan 26, 2015 17:02
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Basebf555 posted:Holy poo poo watching "news" segments about this movie on CNN(not even Fox News!) is unbelievably aggravating. They're lining up veterans and grandstanding politicians to talk about how amazing the movie is and what a True American Hero Kyle was. The host throws them some softball questions so they can shoot down any criticisms with ease. Eh, CNN has been so nakedly chasing after Fox News' demographic for years by now that the two might as well merge.
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Jan 26, 2015 17:37
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Yet they haven't figured out the secret: leggy, tanned babes. What they give you instead is Don Dumbass Lemon.
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Jan 26, 2015 17:43
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Charlz Guybon posted:Has a 72 on metacritic and 73% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes (83% among top critics, which is unusual for a movie to have a higher percentage among them). Here's a good one that sums up a lot of the film's artistic flaws: http://badassdigest.com/2014/12/09/american-sniper-movie-review-nobody-tries-less-than-clint/ Rolling Stone also ran a good one. I'll find some more when I get home. Conversely, can you find a critic that has anything good to say about the film artistically? A lot of the reviews are like 75% bashing the politics and 25% bashing the actual filmmaking (which is understandable), but come on dude. There's no way you can watch this movie and hold it up as an example of quality. It has one tense scene in the entire loving movie (the very first scene) that they botch with a terrible smash-cut flashback. That's the kind of poo poo you get laughed at for in film schools. (And it's also shamelessly stolen from Enemy at the Gates, another bad sniper film). The most that can be said for the cinematography is "well, I could tell what was going on the whole time, I guess." The characters are cardboard cutouts. The dialogue is stilted and eye-rolling. The central conflict of the film (the stupid sniper rivalry) has no tension because everyone who pays even the barest attention to news and the world around them knew that Chris Kyle didn't die in Iraq. And that's ignoring the fact that we've already seen that same cliche bullshit in literally every single war movie that has ever featured a sniper. They handle his actual death, which should have been one of the most tense and important parts of the story, with a TLC reality show-style title card. If you are defending this film's artistry, you are loving blind. It was one of the most bland, half-cooked, by-the-numbers films of the year.
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Jan 26, 2015 18:26
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quote:Sniper isn’t just a bad movie - it’s yet another one of these Eastwood films where he just places the camera wherever and shoots whatever happens This is exactly what I feel about this movie.
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Jan 26, 2015 18:28
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420DD Butts posted:George W. Bush: Intergalactic Hero coming to theaters near you. Kevin James is George Zimmerman: NeighborHOOD Watchman
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Jan 26, 2015 18:54
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Which sounds about right, considering his claimed kill count is more than twice as high as the deadliest snipers in Vietnam. Maybe it's not really a big deal, but I always thought it was kind of odd how many more kills he had than anyone else in Iraq or Afghanistan. Maybe his quote above is full of poo poo, he certainly has no qualms about lying. But his kill count would certainly make more sense if half of the Iraqi population was considered a legitimate target. I forget if it was Chris Kyle himself or another sniper, but I remember a quote something along the lines of 'snipers used to wait days for a shot, in Iraq we waited minutes'
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Jan 26, 2015 19:05
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Slugworth posted:Having more kills than a Vietnam era sniper isn't particularly surprising. Snipers in Vietnam were exactly what we all think of when we hear the word. The role of the sniper in Iraq was a huge shift from tradition, with most shots being made from relatively short distance and with the sniper moving at the same pace, sometimes faster, than the infantry. Another large change was that Snipers started being put into the area of operations before any other troops to set up and cover them during the initial contact with the enemy. They also stopped using them as simply specialized weapons reserved for high value targets, and instead used them as crowd control almost.
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Jan 26, 2015 19:14
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:The central conflict of the film (the stupid sniper rivalry) has no tension because everyone who pays even the barest attention to news and the world around them knew that Chris Kyle didn't die in Iraq. And that's ignoring the fact that we've already seen that same cliche bullshit in literally every single war movie that has ever featured a sniper. Is it weird that I found the enemy sniper to be the most intriguing and interesting character in the story? As a viewer I was dissatisfied with the resolve of that conflict not amounting to more than some "impossible shot" but maybe that's one thing you can credit the movie with - the impersonal act of killing. Although Kyle does seem to be completely cured of his war ailments by defeating his enemy and now he's ready to come home even after his wife threatened to leave but it's ok because he saved the day. quote:They handle his actual death, which should have been one of the most tense and important parts of the story, with a TLC reality show-style title card. This really loving bothered me. The movie just fizzles out with some ominous music and a worried look on Kyle's wife's face, fades to black, "oh yeah he died." And the way they word it, too, is loving stupid "killed by a war veteran HE WAS TRYING TO HELP" further illustrating Kyle as a hero. In a story that could have focused way more on the horrible effects of war and PTSD it glosses over the fact that it killed him in the end.
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Jan 26, 2015 19:15
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there's nothing like a firefight to get your blood pumping. we get off to the rhythm of the trigger and destruction. fallujah to New Orleans with impunity to kill. we are the hidden fist of the free market. we are the ink, we are the quill.  Only irl. lmao we're hosed
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Jan 26, 2015 19:35
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:I think even the old fudds calling the shots for the AAs realize that they would lose every last ounce of legitimacy if this movie wins Best Picture. There's literally no way to justify it on its merits as a film, and I can't see a voting majority being in line with the agenda it promotes either. Yeah, I don't think it actually wins Best Picture, but I would say there's a very good chance that Bradley Cooper wins Best Actor.
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Jan 26, 2015 19:49
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awesome-express posted:there's nothing like a firefight to get your blood pumping. Yeah, this is why I am hitting the roof when people tell me it's only a movie BUT WOW THAT CHRIS KYLE SURE WAS SOMETHING maybe show some respect for the dead?? He fought for your country and poo poo!! He is a hero! No, he wasn't. He wasn't anything but a weird dude who signed up to die with a bajillion others who just happened to be yelling the loudest about his made-up life story to anyone who'll listen and got killed by, coldly, by one of his friends. This movie is going to warp people. And that was it's intention. It's a movie made by scared Americans, to scare other Americans. You don't need a horror film to scare an American, you just need an image of a Muslim woman giving a rocket to a child framed by a crosshair. That's all it needed, and that's what people paid to see: reaffirmation of sociopathic beliefs towards other races and cultures that 'threaten' America. And bonus: if you loved this loving movie you can just tell your Muslim-loving race traitor friends to gently caress off USA number 1. Even if it's a lie, well, at least it was a lie handled by Eastwood and not that human being Michael Moore. To many, it's 'Patriotic' message makes it criticism-proof, and continues to let war crimes go unsolved and unabated. E: I'm pissed about this movie. It's bad propaganda towards my own fellow Americans, the last people who need it. It's to get us hype and proud on a war we royally hosed up to the point that our own country might never recover from. Armani fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Jan 26, 2015 |
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Jan 26, 2015 21:01
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Armani posted:This movie is going to warp people. And that was it's intention. It's a movie made by scared Americans, to scare other Americans. Yep. Its flatness and lack of point of view is the entire point; so that poo poo like this can seem "objective". Everything is presented as "neutrally" as possible so you can make up your mind, which is the whole aim of propaganda. Eliminate ambiguity entirely, present images that feel right in the gut so your brain never processes them.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:14
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The problem with any issue like this, that is so politicized, is it is so taxing to get into any kind of discussion about it with other people in your life. Even if you are 100% secure in the relationship and that you won't ruin it forever with political bullshit, its still a herculean effort to get to a place of rational discussion. I'm also starting to slowly realize that I'm a pacifist, and that realization isn't all that shocking to me, what is shocking is how bizarre and out of place that ideology is perceived by others in this country.I've lived in the U.S. my whole life, it really shouldn't be that surprising but for some reason it is. The idea that violence and killing is not acceptable under ANY circumstances is just not something most American's are willing to even consider. It goes along with the idea that some things, while arguably necessary, are not to be lauded or celebrated. No matter how many fellow soldiers a man may have saved by killing the enemy, those deaths should not be celebrated, we should feel regret that it was necessary. And that's of course going with the assumption that it WAS necessary. Its what a lot of veterans try to articulate when they get back, they say "I'm not a hero, I was just doing my job", but that always translates in my mind to "I was forced by circumstances to do poo poo I'd rather forget, so please don't hold me up as a hero, it just makes it worse." Edit: Whoops, sorry I got into my whole life story, I was just trying to make the point that this movie is making it even harder to discuss this kind of poo poo with people. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jan 26, 2015 |
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Jan 26, 2015 21:16
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You know how dumb rap stars on MTV Cribs always had a room in their mansion dedicated to playing Scarface on repeat 24/7 with Tony Montana posters and bedsheets because they find the story of his rise to power so inspirational and completely ignore that his life was one of tragedy and isolation? American Sniper is the flag-waving conservative redneck version of that.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:58
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