p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

i wish i had found some way to copy the weird basic programs i wrote off the c64 disks before i sold it

they were poo poo but sometimes its fun to have weird things you made as a kid

# ? Jan 23, 2015 18:05

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 08:40

Athas: Aug 6, 2007; fuck that joker

prefect posted:

sometimes there are man pages in different sections with the same name, but they're written for different audiences/uses
code:
$ man -k '^printf'
printf               (1)  - format and print data
printf               (1p)  - write formatted output
printf               (3)  - formatted output conversion
printf               (3p)  - print formatted output
printf [builtins]    (1)  - bash built-in commands, see bash(1)
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/3586/what-do-the-numbers-in-a-man-page-mean

Yeah, but Unix weenies (like me) tend to do this for everything. Are people really going to be confused about what I mean by gcc if I do not write gcc(1)? Also when explicitly discussing a program.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 18:51

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

Athas posted:

Yeah, but Unix weenies (like me) tend to do this for everything. Are people really going to be confused about what I mean by gcc if I do not write gcc(1)? Also when explicitly discussing a program.

better safe than sorry? :shrug:

# ? Jan 23, 2015 18:54

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

Snapchat A Titty posted:

i wish i had found some way to copy the weird basic programs i wrote off the c64 disks before i sold it

they were poo poo but sometimes its fun to have weird things you made as a kid

I wrote a game in mirc script that has been lost to the mists of time

poured like two years into that thing

that language was loving awful

# ? Jan 23, 2015 18:59

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

i wrote a lot of stuff in hypercard in the early 90s but i have most of that. that was a weird language, hypertalk trying to be english

my grasp on english was pretty tenuous too, i remember i thought a box could also be called an "esc" cause somewhere i had seen a sketch of an escape-button, and a box is called �ske in danish

# ? Jan 23, 2015 19:09

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

2danes1page ._.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 19:10

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

danes are the vanguard of designing languages with excessive legacy poo poo

# ? Jan 23, 2015 19:12

Captain Foo: May 11, 2004; we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Snapchat A Titty posted:

danes are the vanguard of designing languages with excessive legacy poo poo

perl is more pronounceable than danish hth

# ? Jan 23, 2015 19:16

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

Captain Foo posted:

perl is more pronounceable than danish hth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk

# ? Jan 23, 2015 19:23

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

Captain Foo posted:

perl is more pronounceable than danish hth

seems likely. danish probably has one of the bigger disconnects between spelling and pronunciation

e: kamel�s�

# ? Jan 23, 2015 19:24

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

Snapchat A Titty posted:

danes are the vanguard of designing languages with excessive legacy poo poo

also i was talking about php and c++ here but i just realized it applies to our actual language as well

# ? Jan 23, 2015 19:26

Captain Foo: May 11, 2004; we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

i had to study danish for a semester when i studied in copenhagen but there was no real expectation that I would be able to use anything I learned (or, as i found out, that anyone would even want me to try)

# ? Jan 23, 2015 19:36

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

yeah, friend of the family is american and has lived here for at least 25 years or so by now, and he still does not speak danish. he understands it fine, just never uses it himself. and he doesnt need to, is the problem really, cause everybody gets what hes saying

# ? Jan 23, 2015 19:45

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

prefect posted:

i think you should be allowed to give them a worse grade if the code is unreadable -- teach them to write maintainable code

yes lets give stressed-out TAs discretion to subjectively judge the aesthetics of student code written under a deadline, no risk here at all

# ? Jan 23, 2015 21:59

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

also tons of TAs are poo poo and frequently wrong even about objective things and it would be bonkers to let them comment on style much less grade based on it

# ? Jan 23, 2015 22:03

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

you should be writing unit tests for their code and then just have them check it into their subversion repo and u can auto build + test it and give them a grade.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 22:04

Lysidas: Jul 26, 2002; John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.; Pillbug

Shaggar posted:

subversion repo

aaaaah hahahahahaha lmfao

yeah for their COBOL or Pascal assignments right?

# ? Jan 23, 2015 22:08

GameCube: Nov 21, 2006

subversion is fine.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 22:10

Lysidas: Jul 26, 2002; John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.; Pillbug

nope.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 22:10

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Lysidas posted:

aaaaah hahahahahaha lmfao

yeah for their COBOL or Pascal assignments right?

idk of anyone teaching those but I guess it would work. subversion works really well

# ? Jan 23, 2015 22:11

HappyHippo: Nov 19, 2003; Do you have an Air Miles Card?

Snapchat A Titty posted:

i wish i had found some way to copy the weird basic programs i wrote off the c64 disks before i sold it

they were poo poo but sometimes its fun to have weird things you made as a kid

i still have all my basic programs

code:

COMMON SHARED supergame&
CLS
start:
SCREEN 9
CIRCLE (320, 175), 100
CIRCLE (350, 135), 20
CIRCLE (350, 165), 20
CIRCLE (350, 150), 42
LOCATE 1, 1
PRINT "[REDACTED]'S MAGIC 8-BALL!"
LOCATE 2, 1
INPUT "Press return to see the answer. Q to quit. >", go$
IF go$ = "" THEN GOTO begin
IF go$ = "q" THEN GOTO Theend

begin:
CLS
RANDOMIZE TIMER
 w% = INT(RND * 10) + 1
 LOCATE 14, 36
 IF w% = 1 THEN PRINT "Yes"
 IF w% = 2 THEN PRINT "No"
 IF w% = 3 THEN PRINT "Of course"
 IF w% = 4 THEN PRINT "No way"
 IF w% = 5 THEN PRINT "Ask later"
 IF w% = 6 THEN PRINT "Speak up."
 IF w% = 7 THEN PRINT "You bet"
 IF w% = 8 THEN PRINT "Yeah, right"
 IF w% = 9 THEN PRINT "Probably"
 IF w% = 10 THEN PRINT "Parhaps"
 GOTO start

Theend:
IF supergame& = 1 THEN CHAIN "C:\DOS\games.bas"
LOCATE 3, 1
INPUT "Quit? y/n> ", quit$
IF quit$ = "y" THEN END
IF quit$ = "n" THEN GOTO start

# ? Jan 23, 2015 22:18

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

Blotto Skorzany posted:

also tons of TAs are poo poo and frequently wrong even about objective things and it would be bonkers to let them comment on style much less grade based on it

at least where i am: it requires only nominal training, pays decently and there's an expectation that all grad students will do it as a favour to their supervisors. a recipe for success! :rolleye:

# ? Jan 23, 2015 22:22

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

Shaggar posted:

you should be writing unit tests for their code and then just have them check it into their subversion repo and u can auto build + test it and give them a grade.

bingo

and then run an automated cheating detector like MOSS

# ? Jan 23, 2015 22:22

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

Shaggar posted:

idk of anyone teaching those but I guess it would work. subversion works really well

most undergrads will probably just do it live anyway

# ? Jan 23, 2015 22:33

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

HappyHippo posted:

i still have all my basic programs

code:

COMMON SHARED supergame&
CLS
start:
SCREEN 9
CIRCLE (320, 175), 100
CIRCLE (350, 135), 20
CIRCLE (350, 165), 20
CIRCLE (350, 150), 42
LOCATE 1, 1
PRINT "[REDACTED]'S MAGIC 8-BALL!"
LOCATE 2, 1
INPUT "Press return to see the answer. Q to quit. >", go$
IF go$ = "" THEN GOTO begin
IF go$ = "q" THEN GOTO Theend

begin:
CLS
RANDOMIZE TIMER
 w% = INT(RND * 10) + 1
 LOCATE 14, 36
 IF w% = 1 THEN PRINT "Yes"
 IF w% = 2 THEN PRINT "No"
 IF w% = 3 THEN PRINT "Of course"
 IF w% = 4 THEN PRINT "No way"
 IF w% = 5 THEN PRINT "Ask later"
 IF w% = 6 THEN PRINT "Speak up."
 IF w% = 7 THEN PRINT "You bet"
 IF w% = 8 THEN PRINT "Yeah, right"
 IF w% = 9 THEN PRINT "Probably"
 IF w% = 10 THEN PRINT "Parhaps"
 GOTO start

Theend:
IF supergame& = 1 THEN CHAIN "C:\DOS\games.bas"
LOCATE 3, 1
INPUT "Quit? y/n> ", quit$
IF quit$ = "y" THEN END
IF quit$ = "n" THEN GOTO start

i would say nice but without line numbers it aint real basic sorry m8

# ? Jan 24, 2015 00:04

Wheany: Mar 17, 2006; Spinya^{ha^{ha^haha}ha}ha_{ha_{ha_haha}ha}ha!; Doctor Rope

been setting us a jenkins server for a few days now. i think it's almost done now, feels good.

again i feel like the circus music is fading just a bit.

# ? Jan 26, 2015 20:54

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Wheany posted:

been setting us a jenkins server for a few days now. i think it's almost done now, feels good.

again i feel like the circus music is fading just a bit.

if you are not using puppet or chef for this, lol

# ? Jan 26, 2015 21:19

Wheany: Mar 17, 2006; Spinya^{ha^{ha^haha}ha}ha_{ha_{ha_haha}ha}ha!; Doctor Rope

lol it is, then

# ? Jan 26, 2015 21:43

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

if you are not using puppet or chef for this, lol

I set up a gitlab vm in ~my cloud~ using their omnibus installer on an Ubuntu 14 image, how hosed am I

I wanted to like juju but it never seemed to actually pan out, I'd install something and then want to enable ssl or whatever and have no idea what to do to make that happen without editing the charm

is that what you're supposed to do? is that what puppet does

I haven't done sysadmin crap in years so I don't know how not to want to kill myself when setting this poo poo up anymore

# ? Jan 26, 2015 22:21

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

with your gitlab poo poo, you probably care a lot more about backing up the gitlab database than any configuration tweaks on the system. config management won't help you that much there.

jenkins is one of the times it really, really, really matters. jenkins has a nasty habit of becoming a rabbit hole shitshow that no one understands. "it got set up two years ago by that guy who left last month" and then it's a bottleneck on production builds/deploy and fuckin lol.

jenkins also has a tendency to get forked. "yeah we want exactly the configuration that the other team uses, but with this list of tweaks"

you really, really want to be using cfg mgmt + groovy scripts to manage your jenkins. if you couldn't blow it away and build an identical new one from scratch in <15 minutes, you have a problem on your hands.

# ? Jan 26, 2015 22:26

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Wheany posted:

lol it is, then

an unmanaged jenkins instance is a liability the second that other people are using it

(if you are just running jenkins on your desktop so you know when you broke the build, ok sure don't worry about cfg management)

# ? Jan 26, 2015 22:28

crazypenguin: Mar 9, 2005; nothing witty here, move along

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

you really, really want to be using cfg mgmt + groovy scripts to manage your jenkins.

is there a particularly nice way to use groovy to generate jenkins jobs or something?

i have a python script i wrote up to generate all our jobs. but i wrote it all by hand to build xml strings and poo poo. not too bad, but not great either. but I couldn't find any non-poo poo jenkins api client library anywhere so...

# ? Jan 26, 2015 22:34

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

crazypenguin posted:

is there a particularly nice way to use groovy to generate jenkins jobs or something?

i have a python script i wrote up to generate all our jobs. but i wrote it all by hand to build xml strings and poo poo. not too bad, but not great either. but I couldn't find any non-poo poo jenkins api client library anywhere so...

chef has a good jenkins library that talks to the api and does stuff like job configuration just fine using chef's native syntax. you only need groovy to e.g. configure non-standard plugins

why groovy? because the jenkins rest api and web interface expect you to post groovy scripts, not raw java.

you could use groovy directly to configure jobs but it's kinda pointless when chef already has a declarative syntax to do it

# ? Jan 26, 2015 23:45

crazypenguin: Mar 9, 2005; nothing witty here, move along

Well, a quick google suggests there's only a chef thing for installing a job config.xml, not anything for generating them?

If that's the case, then good, I'm not really missing something better. Or bad, nothing better exists. Eh, both.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 01:58

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

crazypenguin posted:

Well, a quick google suggests there's only a chef thing for installing a job config.xml, not anything for generating them?

If that's the case, then good, I'm not really missing something better. Or bad, nothing better exists. Eh, both.

installing job config.xml generated from collected values is a huge win. e.g. you can have many related jobs with small differences, expressed in code

if you really hate the config.xml model you can always break into groovy

# ? Jan 27, 2015 02:01

Bhodi: Dec 9, 2007; Oh, it's just a cat.; Pillbug

The low-effort solution is to put the Jenkins directory itself into source control with a good .gitignore. I'm not learning groovy just so I can dynamically generate the config files. gently caress that.

# ? Jan 27, 2015 02:32

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Bhodi posted:

The low-effort solution is to put the Jenkins directory itself into source control with a good .gitignore. I'm not learning groovy just so I can dynamically generate the config files. gently caress that.

yeah if you don't know java/groovy, jenkins is not really for you

putting your jenkins dir into source control is a really bad idea but i guess it is better than nothing whatsoever?

# ? Jan 27, 2015 02:39

ahmeni: May 1, 2005; It's one continuous form where hardware and software function in perfect unison, creating a new generation of iPhone that's better by any measure.; Grimey Drawer

Bhodi posted:

The low-effort solution is to put the Jenkins directory itself into source control with a good .gitignore. I'm not learning groovy just so I can dynamically generate the config files. gently caress that.

programmatic system configuration is the future
welcome 2 DevOps I hope you like data beans

# ? Jan 27, 2015 03:16

Bhodi: Dec 9, 2007; Oh, it's just a cat.; Pillbug

I mean it's bad but it's not the MOST bad thing in my architecture considering I'm using it as a glorified remote script executor. Ansible install -> pull from git -> minor configuration tweaks -> coffee and congratulations from the boss

Plus being able to fiddle with jobs via the GUI and then push working stuff back into the repo is nice. Better than making a config, pushing into chef's cookbook, pulling down / scheduling a change, see if your minor change worked, nope, crap, do it all again.

It's a tragedy how the leader in orchestration somehow runs on java, though. loving java. Why won't you just die.

Bhodi fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Jan 27, 2015

# ? Jan 27, 2015 04:08

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 08:40

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Bhodi posted:

I mean it's bad but it's not the MOST bad thing in my architecture considering I'm using it as a glorified remote script executor. Ansible install -> pull from git -> minor configuration tweaks -> coffee and congratulations from the boss

if you need a remote script executor, get that poo poo done in saltstack/mcollective

jenkins has plugins for both APIs, in the event you just need a big red button for manual "run this on N hosts"

Bhodi posted:

Plus being able to fiddle with jobs via the GUI and then push working stuff back into the repo is nice. Better than making a config, pushing into chef's cookbook, pulling down / scheduling a change, see if your minor change worked, nope, crap, do it all again.

this is why you have a test suite in your cookbook

when you can recreate infrastructure on the fly, instead of loving around with pushing a config, you just run the tests. your poo poo gets spun up in a VM, all changes are applied, and then tests are run to verify that poo poo works like you expected

"infrastructure as code" is a buzzword but it's also a real thing

Bhodi posted:

It's a tragedy how the leader in orchestration somehow runs on java, though. loving java. Why won't you just die.

it is not an accident that all the best things are built on java. it's freely available, robust, capable, extensible, etc etc

if you find yourself cursing at "loving java" it just means you haven't figured out the problem yet

Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jan 27, 2015

# ? Jan 27, 2015 05:40

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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