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Another video of BL's upcoming board game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBf87Gw5cYI
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Jan 28, 2015 14:40
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Tekopo posted:Another video of BL's upcoming board game: I hate this thread for the fact that it's turned me into the type of person who briefly considered making an effort post to explain what is wrong with this game.
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Jan 28, 2015 15:01
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Bosushi! posted:I hate this thread for the fact that it's turned me into the type of person who briefly considered making an effort post to explain what is wrong with this game.
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Jan 28, 2015 15:01
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Bosushi! posted:I hate this thread for the fact that it's turned me into the type of person who briefly considered making an effort post to explain what is wrong with this game. Well me and my friends have fun with it so it can't be that bad
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Jan 28, 2015 15:09
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Clockwork Gadget posted:Broken Loose I am very excited to back your game and make my non-anime-watching wife roll her eyes as she has to scream with the power of friendship and self-respect. Thanks in advance. This is another excellent facet of the game, one I hadn't considered.
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Jan 28, 2015 15:12
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Tekopo posted:*bends down for the 15th time to pick up the ants from the floor* "No way, last time I sat here my stuff got hit with ants on over half the antsplosions." *rolls d6's to randomly determine seating arrangement*
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Jan 28, 2015 15:21
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*fills basket with gummy bears* *closes eyes, opens mouth*
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Jan 28, 2015 15:24
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fozzy fosbourne posted:*fills basket with gummy bears* I'd be too afraid for that to end up in my obituary.
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Jan 28, 2015 15:29
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fozzy fosbourne posted:*fills basket with gummy bears* *replaces with risk pieces
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Jan 28, 2015 15:31
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Broken Loose, I've read more of your stuff and the game does sound better. It just wasn't coming across in that video to me. Anyway, yelling poo poo and being forced to say stupid phrases is super thematic and totally my jam. Also don't understand why anyone would back or not back based on public play.
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Jan 28, 2015 16:18
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Also don't understand why anyone would back or not back based on public play. Because they play most of their games in public places? It's exactly the same argument made against Lap Dance.
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Jan 28, 2015 16:33
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Jedit posted:Because they play most of their games in public places? It's exactly the same argument made against Lap Dance. Gentle Jedit, I disagree.
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Jan 28, 2015 16:55
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Zombie #246 posted:*replaces with risk pieces There's being funny and pranky, and there's being an outright hideous person that needs to be locked up. You've crossed the line there, mister.  I mean, god, man, at least use meeples or something.
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Jan 28, 2015 17:04
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Jedit, never change  Also, the biggest issue with public play is that public play IS LOUD AS gently caress and you won't hear the tape. It's the same reason why I hardly ever play Space Alert even though I like the game. The issue is not shouting silly phrases in public. Whenever I play Tash-Kalar with a friend of mine, whenever we think we made a move that won us the game, we announce 'Tash-KALAR!' in the same way one would say 'Check-MATE'. It's awesome.
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Jan 28, 2015 17:07
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Jedit posted:Because they play most of their games in public places? It's exactly the same argument made against Lap Dance. Soundtracked games don't work well in public due to ambient noises so if someone's playing it in public they're making a mistake anyway.
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Jan 28, 2015 17:24
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Can't play this game while barrelling down the M25 with a rabid dog in the passenger seat, would not back.
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Jan 28, 2015 17:33
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Broken loose please do not perpetrate the geek stereotypes seen on nerd blackface show big bang theory
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Jan 28, 2015 18:24
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Man I love that people can pretty much deal with any theme that isn't anime, but for some reason that one touches a nerve.
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Jan 28, 2015 18:27
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Goddamnit BL. I had money for once. Actual money. I was saving up for my wedding and everything. A pox on your house. A pox on your animes. --- Bit of a late aside, but I'm kinda surprised at the shade being thrown at Blood Bowl, given that it's basically Ameritrash Campaign Mode Galaxy Trucker--a game of trying to make the best series of decisions under time pressure, in the hopes of best weathering an inevitable thunderclap of complete bullshit. It's the one Decent Game that managed to escape GW's soulless Profit Maximization Engine with a reasonable number of limbs attached (largely thanks to prolonged triage from the unpaid dev team working in GW's blind spot). Like, I get that the game hinges on the dreaded +X-to-succeed dice rolls. But it's possibly the one game I can think of where that system makes your decisions more meaningful, rather than less, since the gameplay is built around choosing the right moments to risk a catastrophic failure. (Because all failures in Blood Bowl are some degree of catastrophic, since almost any botch gives the turn to your opponent.) And unlike most "risk management games," you're not just repeatedly making a simple choice between low risk/low reward and high risk/high reward. Often, you're making qualitatively-distinct decisions. (E.g. you only have one reroll for the turn, and it's going to the first roll you botch. Is your first risk going to be the defensive move or the offensive move? How many people do you move onto defense before making your first roll, and how many do you leave available to capitalize on a success? Do you blitz the ball carrier in scoring position, or do you write off the point and focus on injuring players to improve the next drive?) And yes, a match can be decided on a string of hot dice. But BB is built to be a tournament-bracket game. The better player might not win a given match, but will finish higher in the league standings at the end of the season. BB has some annoying flaws. The biggest one is that, for a league game of superiority-over-iteration, the iteration cycle is painfully long. It's easier to brush off an unfair mana-screw loss in, say, Magic, because that anomalous game took 5-15 minutes. A dicefest loss in Blood Bowl still takes 1-2 hours to play out, made worse because Blood Bowl's team development rules actively punish you for conceding a game. (Also, the game can be a massive money sink if you purchase miniatures, because GW miniatures will never not be an embarrassing money trap. But you can skirt that by not buying GW miniatures. Like seriously, don't. None of that money goes to Jervis Johnson or the dev team, so you're not even supporting the creators. Do print and play standups, or third party minis or whatever.) But I dunno, this game survived for decades with the support of, like, 0.01% of GW's horrifying marketing engine. The game survived--and evolved--entirely on the back of nerd devotion for like 20 years. And yeah, nerds are powered by unreasonable nostalgia, sure. But if GW nostalgia is all it takes, then why doesn't...I dunno, Gorkamorka have a living rulebook? Or a large surviving goon fanbase? There has to be something appealing in it beyond nostalgia or the GW Brand. Then again, loving Talisman hasn't been cleansed by the fires of history, so maybe that argument holds no water.
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Jan 28, 2015 18:46
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I'm not familiar with Blood Bowl, so I found your writeup to be interesting. Especially the part about what kind of decisions can revolve around something like how do you handle your single reroll.
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Jan 28, 2015 18:59
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BB does also have some bad issues with faction design, but I agree that it's at least tolerable in digital form where you can play a match in a quarter of the time.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:02
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StashAugustine posted:BB does also have some bad issues with faction design Yeah, definitely this. The game falls apart when played in any kind of long-term league or tournament since some teams have tons of good ways to advance their players and others get diddly.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:04
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Broken Loose posted:None that are out yet. I have a kickstarter for a game called Final Attack! that should hopefully be live by the end of next week. The cat is now officially out of the bag. I posted in the other thread, but this is extremely my poo poo, as well as extremely some of my friends' poo poo. Totally backing this day one, and I'll be doing double the minimum to get the game to make up for Jedit being a buzzkill
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Jan 28, 2015 19:07
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Broken Loose posted:A basic example of an Enemy ID you'd encounter: What happens when a player accidentally violates one of the speech rules?
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Jan 28, 2015 19:14
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StashAugustine posted:BB does also have some bad issues with faction design, but I agree that it's at least tolerable in digital form where you can play a match in a quarter of the time. Okay, that's another potential issue with Blood Bowl: The factions are notably imbalanced. It's important to note that this is by design--several teams are "comedy options" that intentionally exacerbate the dice mechanics, and are meant to be taken as a form of handicapping for experienced players. Unfortunately, the joke teams aren't very well signposted. There's a line of small print text at the beginning of the team roster section, saying that certain teams are meant for experienced players only. But:
Additionally, even within a given "tier," teams are meant to be balanced across their whole careers, not for specific team values. For instance, a fresh Dwarf team has an advantage against almost every other fresh team, but gradually loses steam as the opposing teams gain crucial skills. Conversely, a Chaos team is basically a weak Orc team until mid-career, where their superior development options start to snowball. Over the course of a league, the imbalance evens out between early-career, mid-career, and late-career teams. But if a new player starts with a late-career team, they might not stick with the game long enough to survive the rough early career.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:20
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Gort posted:Yeah, definitely this. The game falls apart when played in any kind of long-term league or tournament since some teams have tons of good ways to advance their players and others get diddly. Gutter Owl posted:Okay, that's another potential issue with Blood Bowl: The factions are notably imbalanced. It's important to note that this is by design--several teams are "comedy options" that intentionally exacerbate the dice mechanics, and are meant to be taken as a form of handicapping for experienced players. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 19:22
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Broken Loose posted:None that are out yet. I have a kickstarter for a game called Final Attack! that should hopefully be live by the end of next week. The cat is now officially out of the bag. Definitely interested, I have a few friends I am pretty sure I can rope into playing this. Couple of questions for ya though: 1) What is the expected price point of the game? 2) Assuming your Kickstarter meets its goal, what timeframe could we expect the game to be distributed (within reason, I know you aren't clairvoyant) 3) Most of my playgroup is into competitive Euros with theme being an almost irrelevant afterthought, like your avatar's game, Caylus, what, if anything about Final Attack will appeal to them?
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Jan 28, 2015 19:25
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Gort posted:Yeah, definitely this. The game falls apart when played in any kind of long-term league or tournament since some teams have tons of good ways to advance their players and others get diddly. "Long term" is a bit of a weird idea in blood bowl. Ideally, you'd want to reset to fresh teams every 2-3 "seasons" in a given league, depending on the size of the player pool and the duration of the season. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people are primarily experiencing Blood Bowl through the "perpetual" leagues of the Chaos Edition video game. And the team balance does break down in any sort of perpetual play environment.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:29
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I still have my dwarf BB team. Everyone called me a dick (jokingly) for getting one, but it was fun to use. Preferred my Lizardmen team because at least it doesn't just have one strat for everything.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:30
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MildManeredManikin posted:Man I love that people can pretty much deal with any theme that isn't anime, but for some reason that one touches a nerve. At my game store it's pretty disgusting to see the teens play their CCGs with anime children in bikinis. From my experience it gravitates to the hyper sexualized pre/during pubescent look. Which, surprise, is what I saw a lot of in Akihabara a few months ago. Some of the card sleeves I saw over there were really terrible, and there were walls of them. That kind of stuff really gets people to not like anime, especially in games. sonatinas fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 19:44
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bobvonunheil posted:barrelling down the M25 
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Jan 28, 2015 19:46
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sonatinas posted:At my game store it's pretty disgusting to see the teens play their CCGs with anime children in bikinis. From my experience it gravitates to the hyper sexualized pre/during pubescent look. Which, surprise, is what I saw a lot of in Akihabara a few months ago. Some of the card sleeves I saw over there were really terrible, and there were walls of them. To be fari this all looks like "giant impractical robots defeat monsters with friendship" anime and not "masturbating to high schoolers" anime
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Jan 28, 2015 19:49
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sonatinas posted:At my game store it's pretty disgusting to see the teens play their CCGs with anime children in bikinis. From my experience it gravitates to the hyper sexualized pre/during pubescent look. Which, surprise, is what I saw a lot of in Akihabara a few months ago. Some of the card sleeves I saw over there were really terrible, and there were walls of them. As someone who doesn't watch anime, nowadays it seems like the general image of anime is pretty gross. However BL's game very clearly targets the weekday afternoon Toonami generation that a lot of us grew up with.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:49
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StashAugustine posted:To be fari this all looks like "giant impractical robots defeat monsters with friendship" anime and not "masturbating to high schoolers" anime Yeah. It was more of the response to the post and why some people aren't into anime themes because of certain associations. Probably should have made that clearer.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:50
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fozzy fosbourne posted:The "name of a region + setting from 200 years ago" trope is boring as hell, though. At least try something slightly different like Sushi Go, Bohnanza, Suburbia, Tokaido, Tokenako, etc.. One of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doesn't belong.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:52
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Heh, yeah I realized that after i wrote it and was hoping no one would notice.  It does feel like slightly more effort than the more common medieval european region trope, but yeah, it's pretty much exactly what I was complaining about, just Japan.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:57
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sonatinas posted:At my game store it's pretty disgusting to see the teens play their CCGs with anime children in bikinis. From my experience it gravitates to the hyper sexualized pre/during pubescent look. Which, surprise, is what I saw a lot of in Akihabara a few months ago. Some of the card sleeves I saw over there were really terrible, and there were walls of them. That kind of stuff really gets people to not like anime, especially in games. Oh yeah I understand why some anime stuff is Bad, but it seems fairly easy to distinguish what is and isn't. Like, people complained about Tragedy Looper being too anime and oversexualized and as far as I can tell it wasn't at all.
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Jan 28, 2015 20:01
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bowmore posted:Opinions on merchants and marauders? I prefer games with a high level of player choice and have a high tolerance for Ameritrash: I like Merchants and Marauders a lot. I'm not sure I'd recommend it unless you have a group of players who are willing to give it a chance over repeated plays. The first time you play the merchant sailing from port to port collecting sets of in-demand cargo will probably win. It will take aggressive marauders willing to engage in some risky PvP to prevent the easy win by the merchants. It will probably take about an hour / player if everyone knows the rules and is willing to plan ahead, longer if players need to ask about their options every time they get to port.
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Jan 28, 2015 20:04
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MildManeredManikin posted:Oh yeah I understand why some anime stuff is Bad, but it seems fairly easy to distinguish what is and isn't. Yeah I think the most scantily clad female character is the Alien, and she's wearing shorts and and a sleeveless white shirt, nothing horribly revealing or demeaning. But I know plenty of people who won't even try Tragedy Looper because of the artwork.
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Jan 28, 2015 20:04
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Oh come on. I love Ameritrash and I'm not afraid to say that Blood Bowl is garbage with a great theme. Blood Bowl has teams that have literally one strategy to win and are able to execute it despite the opponent knowing that it's coming and doing everything in his/her power to prevent it. Junk. It also has an asymmetrical style of teams - bruisers and finesse. Unfortunately the leaguing system punishes finesse teams for multiple league games - sometimes for entire seasons - for getting bad rolls via a harsh, punitive injury system. Finesse teams can literally play people who have no real interest in winning and simply build out teams to bully their opponents first and maybe score a bit after they've smashed their opponents into dust, and this works *incredibly* well on finesse teams - it not only gets them the win, it can long-term destroy the finesse team. Enjoy a playoff season where the bruiser teams are mostly healthy and ready for action (depending on their schedule), and the finesse teams are a bag of broken bones and skin held together by team rerolls and a charitable Apothecary. It also has two skills that are vastly, incredibly better than any other skills and everyone makes a beeline for them on their power positions. There's literally no real choice other than "pick these two insane great skills, start working on something else." Of course you can avoid some of these things. Don't play finesse teams until you're very experienced. Don't accidentally pick a difficult or weak team. Play high Team Values where claw and mighty blow start felling those bruiser teams consistently. These are valid points. There's a decent game waiting for the experienced Blood Bowl players...after dozens of hours of league play and investment. The game fails at strategy. It fails at campaign play. It fails at making interesting upgrade decisions for positional players. It's fine for a one-off game but please don't play league Blood Bowl. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 20:09
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