I/P: post-semitism in the desert of the deal

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > I/P: post-semitism in the desert of the deal

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

emanresu tnuocca posted:

If we could all refrain from responding the trolls (MIGF, Insect Court, Sedan Chair) and clueless anti-semites (Al Saqr) this thread would improve drastically.

Ah yes, the ol' "man who can argue against political Zionism and I cant argue back therefore he is an anti-Semite" shtick, I was wondering when you would stoop to that level.

Laughable.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 12:49

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# ? May 31, 2024 17:27

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

I'm sorry I can't hear you through my leprous horsefaced pig ears, that you think you're some scary anti-zionist thinker anyone gives a poo poo about rather than dumb rear end poo poo anti-semite is the real joke. You know nothing of the middle east or palestine as has been proven many times in both this thread and the middle east one, you should perhaps go back to post about topics you're well versed in, such as Zoe Queen cucking.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 12:53

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

emanresu tnuocca posted:

I'm sorry I can't hear you through my leprous horsefaced pig ears, that you think you're some scary anti-zionist thinker anyone gives a poo poo about rather than dumb rear end poo poo anti-semite is the real joke. You know nothing of the middle east or palestine as has been proven many times in both this thread and the middle east one, you should perhaps go back to post about topics you're well versed in, such as Zoe Queen cucking.

Saving this for posterity.

BTW I'm from the middle east.

also, I am neither a thinker nor do I consider myself scary, and if I really was looking for recognition I certainly wouldn't be finding it on an internet forum.

Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Jan 29, 2015

# ? Jan 29, 2015 12:56

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

Al-Saqr posted:

Saving this for posterity.

BTW I'm from the middle east.

Which is why it's so amazing how ignorant you are about everything, oh no, but you are progressive because you both think it's ok for women to drive and for Zoe Queen to cuck or not cuck.

Who cares, get hosed.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 12:59

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

emanresu tnuocca posted:

I'm sorry I can't hear you through my leprous horsefaced pig ears, that you think you're some scary anti-zionist thinker anyone gives a poo poo about rather than dumb rear end poo poo anti-semite is the real joke. You know nothing of the middle east or palestine as has been proven many times in both this thread and the middle east one, you should perhaps go back to post about topics you're well versed in, such as Zoe Queen cucking.

Are you maybe confusing posters? I thought Al-Saqr was a generally fairly knowledgeable Saudi national. I don't think I've ever seen them post anti-semitic rhetoric, unless I missed something?

# ? Jan 29, 2015 13:00

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

emanresu tnuocca posted:

Which is why it's so amazing how ignorant you are about everything, oh no, but you are progressive because you both think it's ok for women to drive and for Zoe Queen to cuck or not cuck.

Who cares, get hosed.

Yep, it's Al-Saqr who's coming across as unreasonable.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 13:01

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

who the gently caress is Zoe Queen anyways?

# ? Jan 29, 2015 13:01

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

Perhaps if you're going to accuse someone of racism you should provide evidence, hrm?

# ? Jan 29, 2015 13:04

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

can't provide evidence through my murderous horsface, being as attractive as a leprous pig and all.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 13:07

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

emanresu tnuocca posted:

can't provide evidence through my murderous horsface, being as attractive as a leprous pig and all.

What are you rambling on about?

# ? Jan 29, 2015 13:07

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

Disinterested posted:

What are you rambling on about?

Political Critiques of Zionism:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3390388&userid=127305&perpage=40&pagenumber=12#post440395450
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3647023&pagenumber=237&perpage=40#post432578280

# ? Jan 29, 2015 13:09

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Disinterested posted:

What are you rambling on about?

Basically I insulted a (now failed) miss Israel miss universe contestant (who was an IDF graduate) for photo bombing and causing embarrassment and trouble for Miss Lebanon, a country her country regularly threatens and bombs. And I insulted members of the IDF who were bombing the open air prison ghetto called Gaza. Somehow this makes me an Anti-Semite against all Jews.

Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Jan 29, 2015

# ? Jan 29, 2015 13:10

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

emanresu tnuocca posted:

Political Critiques of Zionism:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3390388&userid=127305&perpage=40&pagenumber=12#post440395450
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3647023&pagenumber=237&perpage=40#post432578280

Those are at worst useless white noise posts, but not particularly antisemitic. They're also explicitly directed at the IDF rather than jews, so I don't know why you're so offended, tbqh. The second post was also during the Gaza siege, where a lot of posters said a lot more vitriolic things against the IDF.

I think you're both valuable posters in these threads, for what it's worth.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 13:15

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

Al-Saqr posted:

Basically I insulted a (now failed) miss Israel miss universe contestant for photo bombing and causing embarrassment and trouble for Miss Lebanon, a country her country regularly threatens and bombs. And I insulted members of the IDF who were bombing the open air prison ghetto called Gaza. Somehow this makes me an Anti-Semite against all Jews.

You must be able to register that your comments can be interpreted racially in that context, and it's not bullshit to read them that way. But most of your comments seem pretty reasoned so I think most people just gave you the benefit of the doubt, I don't actually think they were meant racially.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 13:16

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Disinterested posted:

You must be able to register that your comments can be interpreted racially in that context, and it's not bullshit to read them that way. But most of your comments seem pretty reasoned so I think most people just gave you the benefit of the doubt, I don't actually think they were meant racially.

I probably shouldn't have used flat out insults like that at all. especially since you're right I meant it specifically against the individuals and the IDF, not racially. but I will stand by the one during the Gaza Siege, because that was a crime against humanity happening and the sheer scummyness of selling women's images to promote the bombing of an open air prison got to me. I'll keep the unneeded insults out from now on.

Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Jan 29, 2015

# ? Jan 29, 2015 13:20

Fuck You And Diebold: Sep 15, 2004; by Athanatos

Administration Official Criticizes Israeli Ambassador Over Netanyahu Visit

quote:

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration, after days of mounting tension, signaled on Wednesday how angry it is with�Israel�that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu accepted Republican leaders’ invitation to address Congress onIran�without consulting the White House.

The outrage the episode has incited within President Obama’s inner circle became clear in unusually sharp criticism by a senior administration official who said that the Israeli ambassador,�Ron Dermer, who helped orchestrate the invitation, had repeatedly placed Mr. Netanyahu’s political fortunes above the relationship between Israel and the United States.

The official who made the comments to The New York Times would not be named, and the White House declined to comment. The remarks were the latest fallout after Mr. Dermer, without the White House’s knowledge, worked with House Speaker�John A. Boehner�to arrange the speech, which is scheduled for March.

The remarks are likely to escalate a feud between the White House, Republicans on Capitol Hill and Mr. Netanyahu over the invitation, which has led to a new low in American-Israeli relations and threatened to mar the long tradition of bipartisan support for Israel in Congress.

Such officially authorized criticisms of diplomats from major allies are unusual.

In a telephone interview late Wednesday, Mr. Dermer said, “I have no regrets whatsoever that I have acted in a way to advance my country’s interests.” He said he never meant to slight the White House by keeping the confidence of the House speaker, who had suggested the invitation. He said he left it to Mr. Boehner to notify Mr. Obama’s team.

“My understanding was that it was the speaker’s prerogative to do, and that he would be the one to inform the administration,” Mr. Dermer said. “The prime minister feels very strongly that he has to speak on this issue. That’s why he accepted the invitation, not to wade into your political debate or make this a partisan issue, and not to be disrespectful to the president.”

Mr. Dermer, an American-born former Republican political operative who is so close to Mr. Netanyahu that he is often called “Bibi’s brain,” became Israel’s envoy to the United States in 2013. White House officials were at first wary that Mr. Dermer would politicize relations between Washington and Jerusalem, but over time cultivated a working relationship with him after concluding that there were advantages in his closeness to Mr. Netanyahu.

The last week has borne out their initial concerns.

Mr. Dermer relayed the invitation to Mr. Netanyahu from Mr. Boehner, Republican of Ohio, without notifying top officials in Washington or Jerusalem. American and Israeli officials said that Mr. Dermer, in the course of a lengthy meeting with Secretary of State John Kerry just before Mr. Netanyahu’s speech was announced, never mentioned it.

In response, the White House has called the invitation a breach of diplomatic protocol and announced that Mr. Obama would not meet with Mr. Netanyahu when he visits. Administration officials maintained that the decision to avoid Mr. Netanyahu was consistent with a policy of not meeting with world leaders close to their elections — Israel’s is two weeks after the speech — to avoid the appearance of influence. But that policy has been ignored in the past. On Capitol Hill, Democrats have called the invitation a political stunt to undercut the president. It has also inserted Mr. Netanyahu into the middle of a dispute between Mr. Obama and congressional Republicans over new Iran sanctions, which the president opposes until international negotiations to prevent Tehran from acquiring a nuclear weapon play out.

For those who have tracked Mr. Dermer’s rise — from his days as a young operative working under Republican strategist Frank Luntz during the 1994 Republican takeover of Congress to his ascent to Mr. Netanyahu’s inner circle — the maneuvering over the speech appears to be in character.

“He’s a political operative, he’s not really an ambassador,” said Daniel C. Kurtzer, a former United States ambassador to Israel. “What he did was totally unacceptable from a standpoint of diplomacy. To think about going behind the back of a friendly country’s administration and working out this kind of arrangement with the parliament or the Congress — it’s unheard-of.”

Mr. Kurtzer said while it was unlikely the Obama administration would take the extraordinary step of declaring Mr. Dermer “persona non grata” — the official method for a foreign diplomat to be ousted from a country — it could request that Mr. Dermer by reprimanded or removed.

“He has soiled his pad; who’s he going to work with?” Mr. Kurtzer said.

Mr. Dermer’s allies counter that he has been effective at precisely the job he holds: relentlessly representing Israel’s interests in the United States, although with less diplomatic finesse than his predecessors.

“He’s more direct than they are, he’s less judicious with his words, but he makes it up with principle,” said Mr. Luntz, who taught Mr. Dermer at the University of Pennsylvania before hiring him in 1993. “He’s got tremendous courage and he’s prepared to take a principled risk. I don’t know anyone who is as focused on a specific goal and is prepared to walk through brick walls to get there.”

Matt Brooks, the executive director of the Republican Jewish Coalition, said Mr. Dermer had been “extremely strong and successful” at his most important tasks, which are to represent Israel’s interests and defend Mr. Netanyahu’s prerogatives at a critical time for Israel’s security.

“This administration has repeatedly sought to both undermine and embarrass this prime minister, and the same Democrats who now profess to be so outraged by this have been notably silent,” Mr. Brooks said. “When the dust settles on this — and the dust will settle — I think that he’ll continue to be effective on the range of issues that are important to Israel’s security.”

Critics argued that Mr. Dermer’s actions had harmed the relationship between the United States and Israel in lasting ways. “To be an ambassador, you need to be a representative of your country to the entirety of the other country, and that has not been his role to date,” said Jeremy Ben-Ami, the executive director of J Street, a Democratic-aligned pro-Israel group.

Haha, so the Ambassador is a former Republican strategist who worked under Frank Luntz, and says he didn't bother notifying the white house in a multiple hour meeting because "Boehner was totes going to, why should I bother?"

# ? Jan 29, 2015 16:28

Peztopiary: Mar 16, 2009; by exmarx

I asked this in the US politics thread and got sent this way so: The Israeli decision to identify so firmly with the Right in America is going to cost them support at some point, yeah?

# ? Jan 29, 2015 17:24

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

Peztopiary posted:

I asked this in the US politics thread and got sent this way so: The Israeli decision to identify so firmly with the Right in America is going to cost them support at some point, yeah?

We had this a few pages ago. I argued yes, more people argued no. Bibi is just playing games with electoral politics, but while Israel is still a litmus test issue for candidates he can afford to leverage US politicians for his agenda.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 17:24

HGH: Dec 20, 2011

Probably the single most unsubtle politicians on the planet. "Oh sure I'm manipulating your government behind your back for my own's interest, that's my job, what else am I supposed to do? Have a mutually beneficial relationship?".

quote:

Republican Jewish Coalition

I don't understand US politics, I thought religion and politics were supposed to be separate there?

# ? Jan 29, 2015 17:27

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

HGH posted:

I don't understand US politics, I thought religion and politics were supposed to be separate there?

lol

Peztopiary posted:

I asked this in the US politics thread and got sent this way so: The Israeli decision to identify so firmly with the Right in America is going to cost them support at some point, yeah?

Yes, at least hopefully. You basically have AIPAC being the defacto government of Isreal and these are the same idiots who masterminded a ton of foreign policy disasters in the past 15 years so it's pretty logical to think that they are going to overreach and shoot themselves in the foot.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 17:37

Zulily Zoetrope: Jun 1, 2011; Muldoon

Peztopiary posted:

I asked this in the US politics thread and got sent this way so: The Israeli decision to identify so firmly with the Right in America is going to cost them support at some point, yeah?

It's not likely to earn them anything, but it's very unlikely to cost them much, either. There's basically nothing to gain politically from support Palestine in the US, while even Obama's lukewarm admonishment of ethnic cleansing and the bombing of a literal Warzaw Ghetto reenactment has caused some backlash.

HGH posted:

I don't understand US politics, I thought religion and politics were supposed to be separate there?

Bahahaha, good one.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 17:45

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

emanresu tnuocca posted:

If we could all refrain from responding the trolls (MIGF, Insect Court, Sedan Chair) and clueless anti-semites (Al Saqr) this thread would improve drastically.

Well that's interesting. I mean my posts and MIGF's are pretty worthless but Al-Saqr actually lives next to you guys and has to put up with your poo poo.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 17:51

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Al-Saqr posted:

BTW I'm from the middle east.

Hooray for you, I guess?

# ? Jan 29, 2015 17:54

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

CommieGIR posted:

Hooray for you, I guess?

Well Its nothing to make any fanfare about it he was just accusing me of knowing nothing about Palestine and the Middle East even though I live in it.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 18:23

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

I mean, I'm not even trolling. Israelis might find my criticisms simplistic, but how elaborate do they have to be? It's not a troll to point out that Israeli politicians are self-centered and morally vacuous, even the leftists. You're just tired of hearing about it, and of it continuing to be true.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 18:29

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Al-Saqr posted:

Well Its nothing to make any fanfare about it he was just accusing me of knowing nothing about Palestine and the Middle East even though I live in it.

Fair enough. We had an Israeli in here not long ago too, what happened to him?

# ? Jan 29, 2015 18:31

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

SedanChair posted:

I mean, I'm not even trolling. Israelis might find my criticisms simplistic, but how elaborate do they have to be? It's not a troll to point out that Israeli politicians are self-centered and morally vacuous, even the leftists. You're just tired of hearing about it, and of it continuing to be true.

There are no leftist mainstream Israeli politicians sadly.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 18:33

SyHopeful: Jun 24, 2007; May an IDF soldier mistakenly gun down my own parents and face no repercussions i'd totally be cool with it cuz accidents are unavoidable in a low-intensity conflict, man

CommieGIR posted:

Fair enough. We had an Israeli in here not long ago too, what happened to him?

I thought both Absurd Alhazred and emanresu tnuocca are Israeli, although I'm pretty sure at least one of them doesn't live there anymore.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 18:54

Doflamingo: Sep 20, 2006

I'm an Israeli living in Israel currently but don't intend on staying here for much longer. It kind of sucks, you see.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 19:07

SyHopeful: Jun 24, 2007; May an IDF soldier mistakenly gun down my own parents and face no repercussions i'd totally be cool with it cuz accidents are unavoidable in a low-intensity conflict, man

Doflamingo posted:

I'm an Israeli living in Israel currently but don't intend on staying here for much longer. It kind of sucks, you see.

Where do you plan on heading to?

# ? Jan 29, 2015 19:30

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

HGH posted:

Probably the single most unsubtle politicians on the planet. "Oh sure I'm manipulating your government behind your back for my own's interest, that's my job, what else am I supposed to do? Have a mutually beneficial relationship?".

I don't understand US politics, I thought religion and politics were supposed to be separate there?

To be fair, Obama has little real power anymore. He's a lame duck, Congress is going to be dominated by the opposition for the rest of his term, and the next President (even if the Dems win) is unlikely to be a member of Obama's inner circle. Israel has little to gain by keeping him happy and little to lose by openly disrespecting him. The Republican Congress can do more to help Israel than Obama can to hurt them, the next president won't inherit the poor relationship between the Obama administration and Netanyahu no matter what, and cozying up to Congress now could pay big dividends if the Republicans win the presidency and hold onto Congress in 2016.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 20:41

Doflamingo: Sep 20, 2006

SyHopeful posted:

Where do you plan on heading to?

In an ideal world it would be London but anti-semitism seems to be on the rise there big time so probably good ol' USA.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 20:50

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Main Paineframe posted:

To be fair, Obama has little real power anymore. He's a lame duck, Congress is going to be dominated by the opposition for the rest of his term, and the next President (even if the Dems win) is unlikely to be a member of Obama's inner circle. Israel has little to gain by keeping him happy and little to lose by openly disrespecting him. The Republican Congress can do more to help Israel than Obama can to hurt them, the next president won't inherit the poor relationship between the Obama administration and Netanyahu no matter what, and cozying up to Congress now could pay big dividends if the Republicans win the presidency and hold onto Congress in 2016.

This isn't true. Israel has been pretty much playing to the far far right wing in the US for years now and that's an old group of people who are dying off and if Israel is increasingly seen as a partisan far right political issue that could very badly come home to roost in the near future which would be terrible news for the current Isreali ruling class (but probably necessary in order for the country to still exist in 50 years...)

# ? Jan 29, 2015 20:55

HGH: Dec 20, 2011

Thanks for the info. I'm really out of tune with US politics. Speaking of which...

mcmagic posted:

lol

Kajeesus posted:

Bahahaha, good one.

I could have sworn "Separation of Church and State" was an article in the Constitution but I guess I was horribly wrong.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 21:04

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

HGH posted:

Thanks for the info. I'm really out of tune with US politics. Speaking of which...

I could have sworn "Separation of Church and State" was an article in the Constitution but I guess I was horribly wrong.

Separation of church and state != separation of religion and politics.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 21:11

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

mcmagic posted:

This isn't true. Israel has been pretty much playing to the far far right wing in the US for years now and that's an old group of people who are dying off and if Israel is increasingly seen as a partisan far right political issue that could very badly come home to roost in the near future which would be terrible news for the current Isreali ruling class (but probably necessary in order for the country to still exist in 50 years...)

As long as US politicians continue to see AIPAC (rightly or wrongly) as kingmakers whose support is mandatory to have a chance of being elected, unconditional support of Israel will be the object of bipartisan consensus in the USA, no matter how callous the Likudniks allow themselves to be with US politicians in office. And given that the Likud is ideologically closer to the Republicans than to the Democrats, they'll probably continue to openly favor the GOP.

Suppose Obama is succeeded by Hilary Clinton in 2016 -- I don't believe Israel would suffer from a loss of US support for having bet everything on the GOP horse.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 21:22

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Cat Mattress posted:

As long as US politicians continue to see AIPAC (rightly or wrongly) as kingmakers whose support is mandatory to have a chance of being elected, unconditional support of Israel will be the object of bipartisan consensus in the USA, no matter how callous the Likudniks allow themselves to be with US politicians in office. And given that the Likud is ideologically closer to the Republicans than to the Democrats, they'll probably continue to openly favor the GOP.

Suppose Obama is succeeded by Hilary Clinton in 2016 -- I don't believe Israel would suffer from a loss of US support for having bet everything on the GOP horse.

The way this stops happening is if AIPAC and their lackeys keep spitting in democrats' faces.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 21:23

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

mcmagic posted:

The way this stops happening is if AIPAC and their lackeys keep spitting in democrats' faces.

Folks in here really don't get how AIPAC works. AIPAC isn't necessary to win elections, they make raising money easier than it normally is.

As long as the money keeps flowing, who gives a poo poo what pissfight the President is in?

# ? Jan 29, 2015 21:25

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

My Imaginary GF posted:

Folks in here really don't get how AIPAC works. AIPAC isn't necessary to win elections, they make raising money easier than it normally is.

As long as the money keeps flowing, who gives a poo poo what pissfight the President is in?

Because Sheldon Adelson isn't going to live forever?

# ? Jan 29, 2015 21:33

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# ? May 31, 2024 17:27

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

mcmagic posted:

This isn't true. Israel has been pretty much playing to the far far right wing in the US for years now and that's an old group of people who are dying off and if Israel is increasingly seen as a partisan far right political issue that could very badly come home to roost in the near future which would be terrible news for the current Isreali ruling class (but probably necessary in order for the country to still exist in 50 years...)

I think you're dramatically overestimating how extreme "praise Israel, our steadfast non-Muslim ally in the Middle East" and "kill all the Arab terrorists, collateral damage be damned" are in the current political environment. I'd say that currently, Israel is only slightly right of center in the current political environment, with opposition to our support of Israel being confined mainly to the far left and the most devoted libertarians. While there's been friction between the Obama administration and the Israeli government, and closeness between the Rublican leaders and Israel, that hasn't really had much real effect on the overall political landscape.

# ? Jan 29, 2015 22:24

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