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Murder is not comparable to all forms of crime.
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Feb 1, 2015 22:21
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Vahakyla posted:Murder is not comparable to all forms of crime. Jaywalking or selling singles are far worse for instance.
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Feb 1, 2015 22:28
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ReV VAdAUL posted:Jaywalking or selling singles are far worse for instance.
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Feb 1, 2015 22:38
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Lemming posted:Uh, yes? Do you not murder people because you already don't want to, or just because it's illegal? I guess financial regulations are dumb; obviously wall street will just choose not to be exploitative if we repeal regulations and make the police/authorities even more toothless in fighting financial abuse. Remember when desegregation went off without a hitch and didn't even require the US Army to get involved in order to stop the racist white people from being horrible monsters? Basically: Vahakyla posted:Murder is not comparable to all forms of crime. Rent-A-Cop posted:If shitposting was a crime we'd all be doin' twenty to life. edit: In less stupid news, Selma is a good movie and has all sorts of protest tactics in it. I can't vouch for its specific accuracy, because I am not a time traveler.
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Feb 1, 2015 22:40
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Protests attract counter protests, and thus a potential for violence. I'm perfectly fine with proportional policing on any demonstration I'm on if it means I don't get my head kicked in by nazis. Are the people arguing against police presence at protests also arguing against it at sports matches?
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Feb 2, 2015 01:24
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mlmp08 posted:I guess financial regulations are dumb; obviously wall street will just choose not to be exploitative if we repeal regulations and make the police/authorities even more toothless in fighting financial abuse. Remember when desegregation went off without a hitch and didn't even require the US Army to get involved in order to stop the racist white people from being horrible monsters? I didn't say or imply that we shouldn't have laws, just that most people don't break the law not because they don't want to get arrested but because most people are willing to follow reasonable rules to make everyone get along better. The response was to Jarmak who was mocking SedanChair for saying "People don't want to make a nuisance of themselves for the most part." which is pretty obviously the case.
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Feb 2, 2015 02:02
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Lemming posted:most people don't break the law not because they don't want to get arrested but because most people are willing to follow reasonable rules to make everyone get along better. I disagree. If humanity worked that way things like climate change and corruption and racism and homophobia wouldn't be a problem. mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Feb 2, 2015 |
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Feb 2, 2015 02:48
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Rent-A-Cop posted:If shitposting was a crime we'd all be doin' twenty to life. If only it were against the law, then we could have a poo poo-post free posting paradise.
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Feb 2, 2015 03:17
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mlmp08 posted:I disagree. None of those things are illegal though so what's your point?
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Feb 2, 2015 03:20
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Lemming posted:None of those things are illegal though so what's your point? Do you not realize that laws exist to curtail climate change, stop corruption, ban racist practices, and ban homophobic oppression?
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Feb 2, 2015 03:32
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mlmp08 posted:Do you not realize that laws exist to curtail climate change, stop corruption, ban racist practices, and ban homophobic oppression? I get that you're trying to score technicality points but it's pretty obvious that the discussion is about the idea that for the most part, people don't need a police officer standing in front of them with a sign saying THING IS ILLEGAL, DO THING AND GET ARRESTED to not break the law, which is generally true. Obviously it's not true in all cases, but most people aren't going to stand in the street and disrupt traffic because they don't want to, not because they'll get arrested.
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Feb 2, 2015 03:39
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What about leaving parking for disabled? Checking on permits for various things? Speed limits? I'd say the idea of a State Trooper makes many people drive with caution.
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Feb 2, 2015 03:58
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Vahakyla posted:What about leaving parking for disabled? Checking on permits for various things? Speed limits? Some people really do need the police man with the sign, yes, which is why I said "generally" and "most people" and "for the most part" and never "literally everybody."
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Feb 2, 2015 04:01
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Counterpoint: rape and abuse culture exists because people can get away with it. Police abuse of power exists because the police can get away with it.
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Feb 2, 2015 04:41
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Sometimes goons need to learn when to shut the gently caress up and move on from an argument. Speaking of moving on, having a snowball fight while black is now a suspicious event worth drawing a gun over.
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Feb 2, 2015 05:05
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Lemming posted:Some people really do need the police man with the sign, yes, which is why I said "generally" and "most people" and "for the most part" and never "literally everybody." Back before all these different regulations most people just elected not to engage in slavery or child labor or race based pay, right? Most people are terrible either through ignorance or malice or both, but it turns out a combination of social pressure, civil watchdogs, and policing can make them act less terribly.
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Feb 2, 2015 05:14
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Everyday Lurker posted:Sometimes goons need to learn when to shut the gently caress up and move on from an argument. Sure those weren't fluoride protesters blocking the ambulance entrance?
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Feb 2, 2015 05:28
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DARPA posted:Sure those weren't fluoride protesters blocking the ambulance entrance? Thank god the laws against snowball fights are keeping us safe.
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Feb 2, 2015 06:32
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Lemming posted:I didn't say or imply that we shouldn't have laws, just that most people don't break the law not because they don't want to get arrested but because most people are willing to follow reasonable rules to make everyone get along better. Until they think they have a good reason not too. I just, I don't even have the necessary skill with language to adequately express just how loving stupid this post is. This forum is full of people who think it perfectly fine to disregard the law anytime they disagree with it, for moral reasons. Do you even think for a loving second that there isn't an equal or greater amount of people who think they are justified in disregarding the law for moral reasons that would seem (and for the most part are) morally abhorrent to posters here? And thats not even counting people who just don't give a gently caress and would act in their own (perceived) best interest.
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Feb 2, 2015 07:09
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Jarmak posted:Until they think they have a good reason not too. Most laws are immoral. Go ahead and throw that into your ethical calculus, and see what you can divine.
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Feb 2, 2015 07:38
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mlmp08 posted:Back before all these different regulations most people just elected not to engage in slavery or child labor or race based pay, right? Most people are terrible either through ignorance or malice or both, but it turns out a combination of social pressure, civil watchdogs, and policing can make them act less terribly. Why do you think I'm saying laws have no place? Seriously, I don't get it. I agree that laws have an impact on peoples' behavior. The only point is that the social pressure is the one that has the most influence on peoples' behavior.
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Feb 2, 2015 07:45
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So Richmond, Calif.'s police chief caught a lot of poo poo from the union when he joined protesters. Anyway, he refused to back off it. Apparently he's been implementing some radical changes in Richmond since he took over, and The Associated Press had a good feature on it yesterday. quote:One of the first things Magnus did when he took over was to disband the department's "street teams," units of heavily armed officers deployed in high-crime areas. So how's he doing? quote:By most metrics, the department has improved under Magnus' stewardship.
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Feb 2, 2015 09:04
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ActusRhesus posted:Have you ever lived in a high crime area? Yes, several. Have you? If cops are actually good, it should be relatively easy to change my mind. All I see are powertripping scumbags. So much so, that I feel substantially more comfortable working with local gangs. I'm white. The local gangs I've worked with have been hispanic (Dominican and Puerto Rican, specifically). I get the corner kids and when things have gone south, I've known the right people to talk to. Worst case scenario, I'm out maybe $20 and the hassle of calling my credit card companies. When things go south with cops, it gets more complicated. I can show up the next day at work with a black eye. I can't show up the next day if I'm in a jail cell for bullshit purposes or got out of a jail cell at 3AM and show up looking like poo poo because the cops picked me up. And hey, the DA has been good to me, but if I ever get poo poo on my record then that makes future employment really difficult. Again, gang members can't do that to me. You say "citation needed", what citation can I give? Most of this poo poo isn't reported so there aren't going to be statistics. I just experience cops being assholes so I trust local authority more. If cops were the good guys and gangs were the bad guys, I really should be able to sense that. I don't. Shbobdb fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Feb 2, 2015 |
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Feb 2, 2015 09:16
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Murderion posted:Protests attract counter protests, and thus a potential for violence. I'm perfectly fine with proportional policing on any demonstration I'm on if it means I don't get my head kicked in by nazis. Who is arguing against a police presence at protests? I haven't seen anyone do that.
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Feb 2, 2015 09:25
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klen dool posted:Who is arguing against a police presence at protests? I haven't seen anyone do that. klen dool posted:I don't thinks its the cops job to control crowds, especially protesting crowds.  . They're trying to control us. With the presence Mannn.
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Feb 2, 2015 10:34
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Shbobdb posted:Yes, several. yes. And I work in one. quote:If cops are actually good, it should be relatively easy to change my mind. All I see are powertripping scumbags. So much so, that I feel substantially more comfortable working with local gangs. I'm white. The local gangs I've worked with have been hispanic (Dominican and Puerto Rican, specifically). OMG YOU LIVE IN WEST SIDE STORY????? Tell Nardo I said Hi. Seriously, where is this land ruled by benevolent capos? Because here the gangs shoot people. quote:And hey, the DA has been good to me, but if I ever get poo poo on my record then that makes future employment really difficult. Again, gang members can't do that to me. Ah. and here we have the bias. How often do you find yourself across the aisle from the DA? quote:I just experience cops being assholes so I trust local authority more. If cops were the good guys and gangs were the bad guys, I really should be able to sense that. I don't. Gangs are not "the good guys." Your whole post is ridiculous and I call bullshit on all of it.
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Feb 2, 2015 13:52
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ActusRhesus posted:Gangs are not "the good guys." Your whole post is ridiculous and I call bullshit on all of it. They're certainly less dangerous to random citizens.
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Feb 2, 2015 17:34
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So as long as they stick to just murdering each other, and leave the"right people" alone, it's all ok. Is that what you're saying?
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Feb 2, 2015 17:49
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ActusRhesus posted:So as long as they stick to just murdering each other, and leave the"right people" alone, it's all ok. Is that what you're saying? If the police did this it would be a marked improvement.
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Feb 2, 2015 18:07
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Powercrazy posted:If the police did this it would be a marked improvement. They already do, thus the lack of complaints about police brutality among the white and wealthy.
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Feb 2, 2015 18:08
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Trabisnikof posted:They already do, thus the lack of complaints about police brutality among the white and wealthy. Woosh.
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Feb 2, 2015 18:10
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ActusRhesus posted:So as long as they stick to just murdering each other, and leave the"right people" alone, it's all ok. Is that what you're saying? No, I said it's less dangerous.
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Feb 2, 2015 18:35
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Off duty cop assaults an MTA worker in New York. This is explicitly a felony offense. Well he was only charged with a misdemeanor. http://m.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/allegedly-assaulted-subway-worker-busted-source-article-1.2097479 Above the law?
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Feb 2, 2015 21:39
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The earliest reports of this story, before it was found out he was a cop, all the stories from NYC described it as a sudden, brutal assault from an savage attacker who had no reason. Then like, RIGHT AFTER it was found out he was a cop one of the sites that reported it as such changed it to basically sound like the woman "most likely" did something horrible to cause the misunderstanding that resulted in him doing this.
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Feb 2, 2015 22:03
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El Scandelouse posted:Off duty cop assaults an MTA worker in New York. This is explicitly a felony offense. Well he was only charged with a misdemeanor. http://m.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/allegedly-assaulted-subway-worker-busted-source-article-1.2097479 Above the law? I mentioned this pages ago, and got called shrill for wanting to talk about something that wasn't a pedantic bullshit debate. This thread really is garbage sometimes On topic, when I read this story in the Daily News it was buried somewhere after page 10 and surrounded by advertisements
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Feb 2, 2015 22:13
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El Scandelouse posted:... Above the law? Why even bother with a question mark at this point?
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Feb 2, 2015 22:15
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El Scandelouse posted:Off duty cop assaults an MTA worker in New York. This is explicitly a felony offense. Well he was only charged with a misdemeanor. http://m.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/allegedly-assaulted-subway-worker-busted-source-article-1.2097479 Above the law? nah he's being charged with something so even the police have to face justice time to close the thread
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Feb 2, 2015 22:48
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Untagged posted:
Those two statements are not mutually exclusive.
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Feb 3, 2015 00:18
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http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/groveland-officers-accused-using-excessive-force-1/nj2Cp/ Pointing a gun at a child while your partner pins her to the ground with his knee is hardly surprising, but this: quote:Rigdon was suspended in May and demoted in 2013 from corporal. He was also reprimanded in 2011. Each punishment was the result of allegedly filing false police reports. How the gently caress do you have an officer on staff who continually files false reports? How can he possibly be useful giving testimony?
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Feb 3, 2015 00:19
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He can't. The Brady Law is basically career death.
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Feb 3, 2015 02:46
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