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Elotana posted:So I'm looking at the polls for this Israeli election, and can an Israeli or just a better-informed poster explain to me how in the gently caress Zionist Camp has a path to 61 seats even if they eke out a narrow victory over Likud? Because it looks like they're doomed from the start. Unless some drastic shift happens they don't. The only change they have is if right wing in-fighting causes Bibi to try and make a deal with them. The reason they're talked up as a credible threat to Bibi is the same reason Romney got talked up last election, it's hard to get good ratings when there's no real competition. Bear Retrieval Unit fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 30, 2015 19:29
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Well this is sure something. CIA spotters were on the ground in Damascus, and played an integral role in the 2008 assassination of a key Hezbollah figure via car bomb. Hell of a scoop. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...e54a_story.html
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Jan 31, 2015 04:30
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quote:Mughniyah wasn’t alone in his confidence to operate freely in Damascus. During the operation, the CIA and Mossad had a chance to kill Qassem Soleimani, commander of Iran’s Quds Force, as he and Mughniyah walked together. Soleimani was an archenemy of Israel and had also orchestrated the training of Shiite militias in Iraq. Wonder what that's going to do to US-Iran relations Xandu fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Jan 31, 2015 |
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Jan 31, 2015 04:48
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i lovey ou arile io lvpe you. people thinlk not's a gimick it's NOT A GIMICLK i've ahad his hard ghost cock uibn my use;esss flesh body!! i ahd his ghost baby. oh go yo mean so muc hto me please, please odn't leave. i lvoe you. i love you i lawyas believed
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Jan 31, 2015 15:28
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nobody ever understands
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Jan 31, 2015 15:30
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At least Avshalom's posting can be a rare beam of light in a grey world that promises only suffering.
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Jan 31, 2015 15:31
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ariel
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Jan 31, 2015 15:33
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fuckin goyim don'trevne comprehend/. i say "we;l i am loving on a regular basis with the ghost of ariel sharon?" adn thgey go "oh but he wasfat and ugly" and isay "you just shove itup your ficlomg arse HE WAS GLORIOUS" never forget.i a, am eternral widow, neve to love a mortal man
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Jan 31, 2015 15:42
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Xandu posted:Wonder what that's going to do to US-Iran relations Good things, I hope. We generously decided not to assassinate an Iranian officer. 
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Jan 31, 2015 17:07
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The least credulous part of that story is notion that the CIA or Mossad was presented with the opportunity to kill someone they wanted to kill and restrained themselves because they weren't sure if it was legal. We have a program where killer robots fly around blowing up buildings in countries America isn't at war with without so much as a memo. Edit - I guess the difference is in one case there were specific CIA/Mossad agents whose names would be attached to the hit and would bear political responsibility for any fallout, whereas half the goal of the drone program and similar autonomous killing machine ideas is to abstract attribution so much that the law can barely decide whether it qualifies as an assassination any more. Dolash fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Feb 1, 2015 |
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Feb 1, 2015 02:26
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No. I know it's hard to believe the CIA cares anything about legality, but basically everything they do has a DOJ memo and a presidential finding attached to it.
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Feb 1, 2015 02:36
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Well, I'm going to just give up on catching up on the last 200+ pages and am just going to say that I've decided to fly over to Israel to vote. Make of that what you will. In other news, Netanyahu, who recently presented a list of high-contribution donors which included not a single Israeli, and who has more than one newspaper bankrolled by the American Sheldon Adelson to sing his praises, has had some of his bulldogs accuse the Israeli left of using foreign funds in a plot to overthrow the government (in most democracies, the latter is called the duty of an opposing party  )It's a good thing I saved this:  Accusing your opponents of your own crimes is classic Luntz, right? Netanyahu: Israel's GOP Prime Minister.
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Feb 1, 2015 20:56
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Well, I'm going to just give up on catching up on the last 200+ pages and am just going to say that I've decided to fly over to Israel to vote. Make of that what you will. Can't vote at the local embassy or consulate?
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Feb 1, 2015 21:08
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Cat Mattress posted:Can't vote at the local embassy or consulate? Only official envoys and diplomatic staff get to do that. Regular Israelis have to be in country to vote. No absentee ballots, either.
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Feb 1, 2015 21:46
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So, one of my state's reps is the first to publicly announce his intention to not attend Netanyahu's speech. I'm sure I'm not the first one to hear about this, have there been any other D reps who are standing with him? Blumenauer isn't exactly a critic of Israel (hell just read the article, it's pretty clear) so I'm guessing this is more D vs. R politics.
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Feb 1, 2015 22:53
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SyHopeful posted:So, one of my state's reps is the first to publicly announce his intention to not attend Netanyahu's speech. Regardless of what happens, the Israeli government becoming political football is a nail in the coffin of unquestioning, bipartisan American support. Bibi done hosed up.
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Feb 1, 2015 23:26
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Regardless of what happens, the Israeli government becoming political football is a nail in the coffin of unquestioning, bipartisan American support. I'm guessing he pushed too hard at driving a wedge between the Obama administration and other political entities?
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Feb 1, 2015 23:28
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:I'm guessing he pushed too hard at driving a wedge between the Obama administration and other political entities? He's basically giving the US Administration a giant middle finger by going partisan, which is a huge gently caress up. But I have a feeling Israel will continue to get unquestioning support.
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Feb 1, 2015 23:29
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:I'm guessing he pushed too hard at driving a wedge between the Obama administration and other political entities? A little bit of him pushing too hard, a little bit of  pulling too hard, I think.
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Feb 1, 2015 23:29
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Regardless of what happens, the Israeli government becoming political football is a nail in the coffin of unquestioning, bipartisan American support. Is the Israeli government becoming political football in the US, though? Everything I've seen calls out Netanyahu specifically and personally, blaming him and Boehner for trying to exploit each other for political benefit - but none of that blame has been extended to the rest of the Israeli government. All criticism, in both Israel and the US, seems to have focused in on Netanyahu specifically, and even Israeli government officials are happily throwing him under the bus. It doesn't seem like there's going to be any real blowback onto Israel as a whole, though if Netanyahu wins despite this colossal blunder, he might soon find that the US is far friendlier toward the Israeli opposition and their proposals than toward him and his proposals. Lustful Man Hugs posted:I'm guessing he pushed too hard at driving a wedge between the Obama administration and other political entities? I'm not entirely sure that Netanyahu realized just how big a can of worms he was opening up. The idea of having Netanyahu make a speech came from Boehner and the House Republicans, who seem to be angling for a showdown with Obama now that they own Congress. Netanyahu accepted because he was basically being invited to openly advertise and proclaim his political positions and goals in front of Congress, which would likely push Congress and public opinion against Iran in the US and make him look like an important and influential big-shot back home. Unfortunately, it appears he didn't think through the political consequences of coming to the US and publicly criticizing Obama Iran policy at the behest of the opposition party. Netanyahu claims he really didn't intend to snub Obama, and for what it's worth, I'm willing to believe that this controversy was the result of simple incompetence or stupidity on Netanyahu's part rather than outright malice...but that doesn't really make it better, especially since (in classic conservative style) he's doubling up on it and refusing to back down for fear of looking weak.
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Feb 2, 2015 00:02
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Regardless of what happens, the Israeli government becoming political football is a nail in the coffin of unquestioning, bipartisan American support. I can only hope, but even Blumenauer's stand was carefully and firmly couched in "Israel, our ally" terms. I"m sure he'd have no problems keeping Israel stocked with munitions meant for Gaza.
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Feb 2, 2015 00:08
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Main Paineframe posted:Is the Israeli government becoming political football in the US, though? Everything I've seen calls out Netanyahu specifically and personally, blaming him and Boehner for trying to exploit each other for political benefit - but none of that blame has been extended to the rest of the Israeli government. All criticism, in both Israel and the US, seems to have focused in on Netanyahu specifically, and even Israeli government officials are happily throwing him under the bus. It doesn't seem like there's going to be any real blowback onto Israel as a whole, though if Netanyahu wins despite this colossal blunder, he might soon find that the US is far friendlier toward the Israeli opposition and their proposals than toward him and his proposals. Bingo. SyHopeful posted:I can only hope, but even Blumenauer's stand was carefully and firmly couched in "Israel, our ally" terms. I"m sure he'd have no problems keeping Israel stocked with munitions meant for Gaza. But will they do it if Netanyahu orders them? Generally, it seems likely that Netanyahu will be the next PM, but (a) if other parties capitalize on this, they may yet oust him and (b) even if he wins, he managed to split the US on him, and it bodes ill well for his ability to push for anything he likes. Just listen to the stuff Fox News brought up about settlements when they were talking about him, and the insistence on an independent US approach to Iran. His house of cards built on the Iranian threat and on the US not caring about settlements is collapsing; even in power he may be powerless but to acquiesce on both fronts. Especially if he is forced into a really narrow government.
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Feb 2, 2015 00:17
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Bingo. I don't see why not. Bibi has thumbed his nose at the Obama administration plenty of times and yet we're still too beholden to Israeli interests to even abstain from UN votes, take action to decisively end settlement construction, or to generally pretend the Leahy law doesn't exist.
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Feb 2, 2015 00:21
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SyHopeful posted:I don't see why not. Bibi has thumbed his nose at the Obama administration plenty of times and yet we're still too beholden to Israeli interests to even abstain from UN votes, take action to decisively end settlement construction, or to generally pretend the Leahy law doesn't exist. Yeah, and previously Congress wouldn't be reacting this way to his shenanigans or to his nose-thumbing. It wasn't a political football before. Nobody in Fox News would be saying he was off base or bring up the settlements or anything. Now he's become part of a partisan shitshow; if there is any bipartisanship, if anything it's the discomfort with this move. You don't see why that's different than it was before?
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Feb 2, 2015 00:41
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Bingo. They're not going to cut back on weapons shipments, that'd cause tremendous political backfire in the US. What's more likely is lessening US support for Netanyahu's particular choice of foreign policy (particularly regarding Iran) and less willingness to exert diplomatic pressure on the PA. Besides, Netanyahu's already whining about foreign dollars and Dem-affiliated organizations helping the Israeli opposition - if his bill limiting that doesn't pass, it's likely that the Israeli center-left will get a whole lot more help, both in terms of money and political strategy, and in terms of the President saying nice things about Netanyahu's rivals and talking enthusiastically about how good their strategies are.
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Feb 2, 2015 00:43
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Main Paineframe posted:They're not going to cut back on weapons shipments, that'd cause tremendous political backfire in the US. All they gotta do is basically say "well, gee, you're saying it's an emergency but really it seems like you have been misusing the stuff we already sent over, we don't know, we're going to have to make sure we're not wasting tax dollars" etc etc. He's already been painted as Republican-aligned, response in Congress is going to be partisan if it is even in his favor. quote:What's more likely is lessening US support for Netanyahu's particular choice of foreign policy (particularly regarding Iran) and less willingness to exert diplomatic pressure on the PA. Besides, Netanyahu's already whining about foreign dollars and Dem-affiliated organizations helping the Israeli opposition - if his bill limiting that doesn't pass, it's likely that the Israeli center-left will get a whole lot more help, both in terms of money and political strategy, and in terms of the President saying nice things about Netanyahu's rivals and talking enthusiastically about how good their strategies are. I could see that happening, definitely. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
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Feb 2, 2015 00:50
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Yeah, and previously Congress wouldn't be reacting this way to his shenanigans or to his nose-thumbing. It wasn't a political football before. Nobody in Fox News would be saying he was off base or bring up the settlements or anything. Now he's become part of a partisan shitshow; if there is any bipartisanship, if anything it's the discomfort with this move. You don't see why that's different than it was before? Sure, and I really want you to be right, but seeing how little positive change has occurred in the last twenty years I don't think my skepticism is poorly founded.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:06
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SyHopeful posted:Sure, and I really want you to be right, but seeing how little positive change has occurred in the last twenty years I don't think my skepticism is poorly founded. Well, there's skepticism and there's outright rejection of any evidence against the status quo.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:18
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I think Bibi would have to piss on an American flag on live TV to change the status quo.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:25
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Cat Mattress posted:I think Bibi would have to piss on an American flag on live TV to change the status quo. There would still be people coming out of the woodwork to defend it, pretty sure.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:26
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He must realise he overplayed his hand. Might he surprise everyone with a reasonable, level-headed speech?
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Feb 2, 2015 01:29
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bpower posted:He must realise he overplayed his hand. Might he surprise everyone with a reasonable, level-headed speech? In before another big bomb diagram or he orders airstrikes simultaneously with the speech.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:36
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Well, there's skepticism and there's outright rejection of any evidence against the status quo. I've latched onto tons of such evidence over the years and the status quo returned. Like I said, I genuinely want you to be correct, but I'm reserving positivity for actual substantive actions from the D side.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:37
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Disinterested posted:In before another big bomb diagram or he orders airstrikes simultaneously with the speech. Thats what Im thinking, if he whips out the cartoon bomb and starts drawing on it hes going to look like a bloody idiot.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:41
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bpower posted:Thats what Im thinking, if he whips out the cartoon bomb and starts drawing on it hes going to look like a bloody idiot. That's yet to stop him so far. Maybe he'll pull out the 'Islam is dangerous' card or something and see how many Republicans he can get to loudly applaud. I'm curious. We could have a bingo or a drinking game.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:42
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CommieGIR posted:He's basically giving the US Administration a giant middle finger by going partisan, which is a huge gently caress up. They've always been partisan. Likud's platform is Israel's platform as far as the US is concerned. Never stopped Dems from sucking up to Israel's right to defend itself. The issue now is that Bibi is being openly hostile to the Obama administration, trying to manipulate American politics at an unprecedented level, and the Obama Administration is feebly responding "hey, you shouldn't be supposed to do that." And it remains to be seen whether Bibi hosed up, or the Obama administration hosed up on behalf of the Dems.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:44
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I'm just really grateful we finally get to hear Bibi's opinion on Iran. I'm not quite sure how he advocates treating them.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:45
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Volkerball posted:I'm just really grateful we finally get to hear Bibi's opinion on Iran. I'm not quite sure how he advocates treating them. Bomb early, bomb often.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:46
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Absurd Alhazred posted:All they gotta do is basically say "well, gee, you're saying it's an emergency but really it seems like you have been misusing the stuff we already sent over, we don't know, we're going to have to make sure we're not wasting tax dollars" etc etc. He's already been painted as Republican-aligned, response in Congress is going to be partisan if it is even in his favor. The difference there is between what's seen as "helping Netanyahu" vs what is seen as "helping Israel". There's simply no chance that Obama could meaningfully restrict arms sales to Israel under current circumstances. He's free to gently caress with Netanyahu's personal foreign policy initiatives all he wants, and he's free to do all he can to sway Israeli public opinion in favor of anyone who can beat Netanyahu in an election, but bullets and bombs are basically off-limits. There have already been two cases in which Obama has delayed shipments of missiles and other arms to put pressure on Netanyahu, but outright canceling and denying those shipments would change the political game significantly as Obama would then be seen as "endangering Israel", not just punishing Netanyahu.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:55
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Volkerball posted:I'm just really grateful we finally get to hear Bibi's opinion on Iran. I'm not quite sure how he advocates treating them. See: Bomb Chart and Ron Paul's 'It's Happening' gif
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Feb 2, 2015 02:00
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