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I respect Working Designs for the niche they filled in the industry, but their translations were just a mess. I'm definitely a proponent of localization over straight literal translation, but they swung way too far in that direction, and as a result their scripts come across as really, really awkward, which was the case even just a few years out from releases like Lunar. Pop culture jokes don't retain their freshness very long. They were also not really that great at business decisions, since part of what drove them under was the "Let's release these incredibly niche games, with a million extra feelies".
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Feb 2, 2015 01:08
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Let's release these incredibly niche games, many years after the fact. Who the hell was going to buy Magic Knight Rayearth, a game for the sega saturn based on a mildly popular anime, in 1997? It wasn't like this was Dragonball Z where you could get away with that crap, Rayearth was only found on (mostly bootleg) VHS tapes.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:11
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SpitztheGreat posted:And I'm surprised by all of the hate for Working Design, I always thought they were well liked. I have mad respect for Working Designs being a pioneer but they made a lot of unwanted changes for no good reason. Props for working with the Japanese companies to fix things but don't touch anything outside of bugs, thanks.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:15
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They were trying to get Rayearth out for ages beforehand but..yeah. They had a lot of issues getting Albert Odyssey done (had to find some weirdly specific configuration of Japanese PC, assuming X68000, to make the translation work) and fighting with Sony to get Arc the Lad out for the entire life of the PSX. And let's not forget that Goemon game.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:15
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The Rayearth game was just a fiasco in a thousand ways. They had to rewrite a bunch of the code because the source was straight up lost, as happens. They weren't able to license the opening song, so they just slapped some different lyrics over the melody. Then they released it like three years after the game came out in Japan. A lovely game, on a system almost no one had. With three different art designs for the CDs, to up the collector value.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:15
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While maybe not a great business decision all those ridiculous extras are charming as hell and I appreciate their big or or go home attitude. That being said, it's made extra strange with the game that they went with. Take Lunar:SSSC for example, when it was released the original game was only 5ish year old, and I don't think it was really considered a ground breaking game to begin with. So they remake it and release it in a gigantic collectors edition. It would make sense it Lunar: The Silver Star had been the 16bit equivalent of FFVII, but it wasn't, so why spend the resources on a game that wasn't even that old and didn't really need a remake.? When did WD close their doors?
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Feb 2, 2015 01:28
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SpitztheGreat posted:When did WD close their doors? Officially December 2005, but I think they released their last game sometime before that, and the writing had been on the wall for a while. ETA: Just checked, and yeah. It was a full year after their last released game (Growlanser) that they announced everyone had been laid off and they were closing their doors. AngryRobotsInc fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Feb 2, 2015 |
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Feb 2, 2015 01:31
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So who is considered the best localization company around today? XSeed? Endorph posted:Working Designs were amazing at the time, but with the benefit of hindsight and actually good translations that don't need to use cheap punchlines as a crutch, it's easy to see where they faltered. I still don't think they're the worst ever, but none of what they did would really be acceptable these days. No doubt. The competition at the time was non-existant. Even Ted Woosley is a mere average in today's translation world. The worst translations of modern games would be seen as very good back then. Ignition Entertainment would probably be seen as Working Designs level back then. SpitztheGreat posted:Random battles suck, there's no way around it, but they serve a useful purpose. Modern game do this right. Take Shin Megami Tensei IV for example. It doesn't have random battles, but it can be very difficult to avoid enemies some times, but it's always your fault if you get hit because you can always technically avoid them.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:39
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I like 8-4 because some of their localization changes have been pretty cool and I like their selection of VA's for the talk-heavy games like Revengance and Nier.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:43
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Tae posted:I like 8-4 because some of their localization changes have been pretty cool and I like their selection of VA's for the talk-heavy games like Revengance and Nier. Yeah 8-4's dubs are incredible.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:44
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Xseed imo
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Feb 2, 2015 01:45
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i'd go with 8-4, yeah. FE13, Tales of Xillia, Tales of Graces, Metal Gear Rising...
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Feb 2, 2015 01:46
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8-4 are pretty amazing, but their stuff is mainly contract work. As far as 'independant' goes, XSEED.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:47
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I'll weigh in for 8-4 and XSEED as well. 8-4 is just generally good, and XSEED has pretty much slid into the same sort of slot Working Designs used to fill in localizing the sort of games that are kind of risky and niche. I really, really liked how they did with Silver Star Harmony.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:50
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I'm ok with random battles but I like what older SMT games did with the battle mood ring, where once it got to red, you enter battle, so you knew when a battle was coming up if you needed to heal or w/e (also it made me feel cocky, like "i'm low on HP but i bet i can get to that save point before the next fight")
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Feb 2, 2015 01:55
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SelenicMartian posted:VP2's battle system is odd though. I've put it down after test-playing it for about 4 hours, went back to that save a few months later, and got my rear end kicked by every single encounter. There's so much crap to take care of in every battle and I forgot all of it. Use the Dash jump to get into the enemy's face, mash every button. It works fine. RPGs that expect you to work out combos while giving you gently caress all for documentation and no training dummy  Look up the rune combo for Toughness, you'll be able to double the entire party's max HP in Chapter 4. Oh yeah don't use mages, unlike VP1 they are the dirt worst Tonfa fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Feb 2, 2015 |
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Feb 2, 2015 02:03
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Best dub goes to O-3 Entertainment in Chaos Wars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pD83hmKjr0 Their fall is the greatest disaster in video games. SpitztheGreat posted:While maybe not a great business decision all those ridiculous extras are charming as hell and I appreciate their big or or go home attitude. That being said, it's made extra strange with the game that they went with. Take Lunar:SSSC for example, when it was released the original game was only 5ish year old, and I don't think it was really considered a ground breaking game to begin with. So they remake it and release it in a gigantic collectors edition. It would make sense it Lunar: The Silver Star had been the 16bit equivalent of FFVII, but it wasn't, so why spend the resources on a game that wasn't even that old and didn't really need a remake.? It was kind of a talking point. The mid-90s was the anime boom in North America and WD was at the center in video game magazines. They had double page spreads in magazines and entire articles devoted to their production quality. And the cost reflected the quality, these were $60 games with limited quantity so if you didn't preorder that poo poo you had to pay some Yahoo Auction prices or pray your local Babbages had a complete used copy. I think Arc the Lad was $70 when it dropped. Anyway, Working Designs only localized the game it's Game Arts that developed them. They actually released two editions on the Saturn with the later one taking advantage of the system's mpeg expansion. Working Designs was working on the Saturn version but wisely switched to the PS1 version when Game Arts started porting it. The difference is about 7 years, 1992 for Lunar SSS and 1999 for the NA Complete edition. That's not so absurd considering Capcom made a name for themselves releasing the same game with tweaks throughout the 90s.
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Feb 2, 2015 02:14
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According to Victor Ireland, Working Designs, or at least he himself, had some effect on the development of Silver Star Story Complete, as he's said that some of the gameplay additions came about from requests he made to Game Arts, as their working relationship had become close during the localization of The Silver Star on SegaCD.
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Feb 2, 2015 02:22
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Quest For Glory II posted:I'm ok with random battles but I like what older SMT games did with the battle mood ring, where once it got to red, you enter battle, so you knew when a battle was coming up if you needed to heal or w/e (also it made me feel cocky, like "i'm low on HP but i bet i can get to that save point before the next fight") My favorite is the battle mood ring from older Etrian Odyssey games, which would go from blue to red in one step and then you get ambushed and murdered.
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Feb 2, 2015 02:24
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So here's Chrono Trigger's ad which absolutely blew me away when I first saw it.  Aaaaand here's Earthbound's.  Is it any wonder why Earthbound didn't do that well? And some of Working Designs' ads which were always espousing the cinematic prowess of the CD format years before anyone on consoles cared. Shame the Sega CD flopped like it did.   
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Feb 2, 2015 03:06
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al-azad posted:Is it any wonder why Earthbound didn't do that well? Eh. It's worth remembering this was the era where Nick was really popular and shows like Ren & Stimpy, Rocko's Modern Life and Beavis and Butthead were big. Fart jokes were 'in.'
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Feb 2, 2015 03:14
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ImpAtom posted:Eh. It's worth remembering this was the era where Nick was really popular and shows like Ren & Stimpy, Rocko's Modern Life and Beavis and Butthead were big. Fart jokes were 'in.' That's understandable but Ren & Stimpy and Rocko's Modern Life had games and you know what their ads had? Bright, colorful art reminiscent of the property it's based on not a wall of text that amounts to telling you nothing.
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Feb 2, 2015 03:23
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Yea that Earthbound ad is terrible, like lose your job terrible.
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Feb 2, 2015 03:35
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I think my favorite bad ads are "PSST I HAVE KLONOA" for Klonoa and "No wonder these girls have 12 different climaxes" for Fear Effect 2.
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Feb 2, 2015 03:46
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al-azad posted:Aaaaand here's Earthbound's. Earthbound had the misfortune of coming out when Nintendo was desperately trying to prove they had as much 'tude as Sega. But that's not even the worst part of Earthbound's ad campaign. They also had scratch and sniff cards that deliberately smelled awful put in as an insert in various game magazines. It made the whole issue stink. Months later I could still dig through my Game Players issues, get the slightest whiff, and say "oh, right, this is the one with the Earthbound ad in it." 
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Feb 2, 2015 04:44
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A bigger problem than the marketing for Earthbound were the reviews. Gamepro didn't get it at all. http://earthboundcentral.com/2009/03/gamepros-earthbound-review/ quote:“The lack of a convincing story line and the dull NES clone graphics (The game is a port over of an 8-bit Japanese Famicon title) will make serious RPG fans a little cautious about approaching Earthbound.” Game Players gave it a 69%. Even in Nintendo Power, only 2 of the 6 editors gave it their seal of approval. (None of the editors that was listed as liking RPGs) Prehistorik Man got 4 seals of approval.  NP's review was okay. They only played up the humor though and never treated it like it was something great. It was enough for me to rent the game (and fall in love with it) but not buy it. With what NP said about Chrono Trigger, I had to be there on day one at the store to get it. They said CT would set the new standard and that it improved upon Final Fantasy in every area and it would make us wonder how we were ever happy with those other RPGs. http://earthboundcentral.com/2010/03/earthbound-in-nintendo-power-73/ vs https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Nintendo_Power_Coverage.html
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Feb 2, 2015 04:52
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The White Dragon posted:My favorite is the battle mood ring from older Etrian Odyssey games, which would go from blue to red in one step and then you get ambushed and murdered.
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Feb 2, 2015 05:23
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The White Dragon posted:My favorite is the battle mood ring from older Etrian Odyssey games, which would go from blue to red in one step and then you get ambushed and murdered. To be fair, it's not much of an ambush if you see it coming.
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Feb 2, 2015 05:33
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Erebus posted:Earthbound had the misfortune of coming out when Nintendo was desperately trying to prove they had as much 'tude as Sega. Holy crap, I thought Yahtzee was joking about Nintendo making the game smell like farts in his Earthbound review.
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Feb 2, 2015 08:20
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Feb 2, 2015 12:24
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I have awful memory but I get the sense that Working Designs eventually mellowed out on the toilet humor and pop-culture references since I don't remember anything outrageous about the translation for Growlanser Generations. Instead, Vic chose to gently caress up by packing together two extremely text-heavy games that cost an arm to translate and loading them up with goodies. I like the guy but I can't vouch for his business sense.
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Feb 2, 2015 12:46
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Feb 2, 2015 15:55
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Earthbound was the best. I think I picked it up when I visited New Zealand to see family, or immediately before so I didn't have time to play it. What I did have, however, was the awesome strategy guide. And so I read the fucker cover to cover over the course of two weeks, repeatedly. Then I had more time on my hands before returning to my sweet, sweet Super Nintendo Entertainment System, and so I did what any young bored game-obsessed kid would do, and I used that strategy guide as a focal point to create a simple board game based on Earthbound. It was so dumb, and also so great. Then I played the game and it was awesome. Which is funny, because mechanically it's a fairly dull game, but it's just dripping with character that makes me want to replay it again and again. And seeing that SMAAAASH!! show up when you attacked an enemy was so loving satisfying.
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Feb 2, 2015 16:00
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All this talk of Working Designs and the Earthbound fart ads reminds me of the parody opening to Vanguard Bandits that WD included in the game, unlocked after beating it. It's about farting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er1vEkWx1pw I actually enjoyed Vanguard Bandits simply because some battles you were supposed to lose, could actually be won instead and changed the story a little. I think it's the very first mission where you're supposed to retreat but you can actually win. I always hate scripted parts in games where I have to surrender or lose even though I could win if the game would let me fight it out. Like in Uncharted 2 I killed hundreds of guys but then I have to surrender because I'm surrounded in a cutscene? Bullshit, I could have taken those guys.
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Feb 2, 2015 16:46
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Is it crazy to think of going through Suikodens in their chronological order? That is IV > Tactics > V > I > II and nothing because III never made it to Europe.
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Feb 2, 2015 18:22
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Yes because IV and Tactics are painfully lovely. Otherwise it's fine?
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Feb 2, 2015 18:24
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Well, I was also thinking about the gradual increase in quality as a factor. I mean, it can't be as bad a Kingdom Hearts1&2, right?
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Feb 2, 2015 18:55
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I'm a huge Suiko fanboy and can't give you a decent reason to play IV or Tactics. On the plus side they're so far removed from the metaplot that it really doesn't matter if you pretend they don't exist.
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Feb 2, 2015 19:04
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i liked tactics
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Feb 2, 2015 19:07
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| # ? May 21, 2024 17:57 |
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Heavy neutrino posted:I have awful memory but I get the sense that Working Designs eventually mellowed out on the toilet humor and pop-culture references since I don't remember anything outrageous about the translation for Growlanser Generations. Instead, Vic chose to gently caress up by packing together two extremely text-heavy games that cost an arm to translate and loading them up with goodies. I like the guy but I can't vouch for his business sense. It was a long time ago that I played them, but I don't recall the Arc the Lad games being like that either. I do remember the localisation style of the Lunar games though
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Feb 2, 2015 19:17
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