and now shadowbane may be back lol

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The MMO HMO > and now shadowbane may be back lol

«‹›13 »

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

btw im in beta group 2 for when this starts

just remember to play 2 crush

if you aren't crushing you aren't playing

# ? Jan 30, 2015 22:27

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 10, 2024 05:28

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

also i want to post on the crowfall forums but its filled with people that remind me of when I was like 14 or 15 getting super mad at each other over message board posts

# ? Jan 30, 2015 22:32

Zarithas: Jun 18, 2008

Eonwe posted:

also i want to post on the crowfall forums but its filled with people that remind me of when I was like 14 or 15 getting super mad at each other over message board posts

I'm only posting to try and make a semi-delusional attempt at preventing the devs from loving up the game (read: making it into something I don't like) before they've invested too much into a certain plan or vision.

# ? Jan 31, 2015 01:12

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

I guess we'll see how it goes

I like the art style at least

# ? Jan 31, 2015 03:20

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

yeah, much better this time around, and it should scale well across different graphics card levels.

# ? Jan 31, 2015 04:03

zeldadude: Nov 24, 2004; OH SNAP!

Jimb posted:

I wouldn't say Shadowbane was a failure, it was pretty loving fun for it's time. I enjoy a game that punishes hard for PvP failure, it's just hard to get many people onboard with it these days.

Yeah I don't know wtf you're talking about OP, shadowbane was loving awesome. It had the best PvP out of any mmo I've played and that's saying something. But talking poo poo about something you know nothing about is cool too!!

# ? Jan 31, 2015 19:51

WayAbvPar: Mar 11, 2009; Ah- Smug Mode.

Eonwe posted:

I guess we'll see how it goes

I like the art style at least

Really? Wow. I absolutely hate it.

# ? Jan 31, 2015 23:43

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

WayAbvPar posted:

Really? Wow. I absolutely hate it.

idk it kinda reminds me of Warcraft 3 HD and I liked Warcraft 3's art style

# ? Feb 1, 2015 01:32

Zarithas: Jun 18, 2008

WayAbvPar posted:

Really? Wow. I absolutely hate it.

I'll have to see more screenshots, but assuming this is fairly close to what's really in-game then this looks fine to me:

# ? Feb 1, 2015 01:36

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

I do completely get what he is saying

People either seem to really love or really hate exaggerated art styles like that

# ? Feb 1, 2015 01:52

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

<Cyneric> Though until the EVE goons, leave EVE, I'm not as terrified as everyone seems to be about you guys, that I see on like every forum.
<Eonwe> yea I can see that
<awakedog> you're fine if you're older than fourteen and don't live in sweden

# ? Feb 1, 2015 02:07

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Zarithas posted:

I'll have to see more screenshots, but assuming this is fairly close to what's really in-game then this looks fine to me:

Maybe it's just an artifact of the screenshot, but it's weird that they lit the armor and shield so clearly while the face it obscured in shadow.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 02:10

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

so far out of the two revealed archetypes, I'm all about this guy

also it looks like basically they are a dying race and just want to mine stone all day and work on their Great Work but nobody will let them

pretty cool

# ? Feb 1, 2015 02:34

Zarithas: Jun 18, 2008

I cannot in good conscience pursue such sinful endeavors as Crowfall any longer after watching this moving monologue by Holrom Skullbreaker.

https://vimeo.com/16950846

"A bane is on the Tree of Life of your life."

Zarithas fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Feb 1, 2015

# ? Feb 1, 2015 03:21

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

Zarithas posted:

https://vimeo.com/16950846

# ? Feb 1, 2015 03:37

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

im watching this whole thing

"computer games goes hand in hand with pornography"

yea i have a dual monitor for just this situation

# ? Feb 1, 2015 03:45

WayAbvPar: Mar 11, 2009; Ah- Smug Mode.

Zarithas posted:

I'll have to see more screenshots, but assuming this is fairly close to what's really in-game then this looks fine to me:

See, that looks like a picture of a pre-schooler's fantasy figure set. Ugh.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 08:26

Fog Tripper: Mar 3, 2008; by Smythe

WayAbvPar posted:

Really? Wow. I absolutely hate it.

In my mind, trying to get things too ultra realistic suffers when it is the slightest bit off. I'd prefer graphics that are less lifelike.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 17:22

Fog Tripper: Mar 3, 2008; by Smythe

WayAbvPar posted:

See, that looks like a picture of a pre-schooler's fantasy figure set. Ugh.

So very unlike real life centaurs.

# ? Feb 1, 2015 17:24

Ashrik: Feb 9, 2009; WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.

The art style is nice and like the one thing about this game that's not a big ball of lol

# ? Feb 1, 2015 23:01

Byolante: Mar 23, 2008; by Cyrano4747

Last game catering to hardcores goons praised the art style of was wildstar. I think this game is even less likely to succeed than that.

# ? Feb 2, 2015 00:01

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

Byolante posted:

Last game catering to hardcores goons praised the art style of was wildstar. I think this game is even less likely to succeed than that.

the thing is 40 man raids are objectively even a worse idea than what they are coming up with here

# ? Feb 2, 2015 00:13

Zarithas: Jun 18, 2008

Byolante posted:

Last game catering to hardcores goons praised the art style of was wildstar. I think this game is even less likely to succeed than that.

It's a pretty different genre. There are way more people interested in games like Wildstar than there are people interested in games like Shadowbane or Darkfall.

# ? Feb 2, 2015 02:46

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Zarithas posted:

way more people interested in games like Wildstar

Pretty harsh indictment of this game's prospects.

# ? Feb 2, 2015 02:53

Zarithas: Jun 18, 2008

Subjunctive posted:

Pretty harsh indictment of this game's prospects.

It's just the natural state of things. Even if this game was somehow completely amazing, its population probably wouldn't get near Wildstar's. Unless I am totally mispredicting what Crowfall is trying to do.

# ? Feb 2, 2015 03:00

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

yea, these games are niche and the more hardcore the community tries to make it the more likely it is to fail

most people (even the ones who call for games like this) can't handle full loot and poo poo

# ? Feb 2, 2015 03:07

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Isn't Wildstar's current population less than 5 digits?

# ? Feb 2, 2015 03:08

Fog Tripper: Mar 3, 2008; by Smythe

The gently caress is a Wildstar?
" way more people interested in games like Wildstar", a game that I've never heard of.

# ? Feb 2, 2015 03:19

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

Fog Tripper posted:

The gently caress is a Wildstar?
" way more people interested in games like Wildstar", a game that I've never heard of.

its a bad mmo

the design philosophy was "remember 2006-era WoW? well we think what gamers really want is a return to the 40 man raids of this time, also attunements"

# ? Feb 2, 2015 03:26

Zarithas: Jun 18, 2008

Subjunctive posted:

Isn't Wildstar's current population less than 5 digits?

I don't know. I had some friends who played it at launch and said it was pretty active, so I'm going by those numbers in my head.

Darkfall had maybe like 2500 semi-active players on NA at its peak, so a 5 digit population in a game like this would be pretty amazing. Only EVE has achieved that, and that's by successfully appealing to different groups.

# ? Feb 2, 2015 03:39

flipoff: Nov 25, 2003; Really, bitch?

Zarithas posted:

I don't know. I had some friends who played it at launch and said it was pretty active, so I'm going by those numbers in my head.

Darkfall had maybe like 2500 semi-active players on NA at its peak, so a 5 digit population in a game like this would be pretty amazing. Only EVE has achieved that, and that's by successfully appealing to different groups.

Wildstar took a nose dive into total shittsville after the first month as a result of catering to the "hardcore" crowd.

# ? Feb 2, 2015 16:09

Captain Oblivious: Oct 12, 2007; I'm not like other posters

Zarithas posted:

I don't know. I had some friends who played it at launch and said it was pretty active, so I'm going by those numbers in my head.

Darkfall had maybe like 2500 semi-active players on NA at its peak, so a 5 digit population in a game like this would be pretty amazing. Only EVE has achieved that, and that's by successfully appealing to different groups.

Wildstar set a land speed record for dying after launch.

It's basically a ghost town with multiple hour long queues for dungeons.

# ? Feb 2, 2015 16:32

Fajita Queen: Jun 21, 2012

flipoff posted:

Wildstar took a nose dive into total shittsville after the first month as a result of catering to the "hardcore" crowd.

It didn't cater to the hardcore crowd, it catered to a bunch of mentally retarded manchildren that don't actually understand what they want to enjoy.

# ? Feb 2, 2015 19:50

flipoff: Nov 25, 2003; Really, bitch?

The Shortest Path posted:

It didn't cater to the hardcore crowd, it catered to a bunch of mentally retarded manchildren that don't actually understand what they want to enjoy.

That's what the quotes by hardcore implied, but you spelled it out pretty well.

# ? Feb 2, 2015 20:38

Fajita Queen: Jun 21, 2012

Yeah, but I wanted to clarify it I guess. The actual hardcore crowd is still playing WoW because the top-tier raiding is challenging in an actually positive way, not just by everything being impossible because of numbers.

Wildstar looked at Vanilla/BC WoW and instead of trying to figure out why the hardcore raiders enjoyed it, just copied all the bad parts and filled in a bunch of poo poo. Nobody enjoyed Black Temple because of its attunement quest, they enjoyed it because it was challenging in a way that was testing and fun to overcome.

# ? Feb 2, 2015 21:50

Zarithas: Jun 18, 2008

New content explaining the worlds and the resetting system:

http://crowfall.com/#/news/hunger-week-its-about-time

quote:

Welcome to Hunger Week!

Until now, we�ve been describing the game in general terms. The real differences between Crowfall and other MMORPGs have been �creeping around the edges� of our weekly updates.

Today is the turning point � where we start to separate away from the herd. Unfortunately (but inevitably) that means we�re going to turn some people off today. But hopefully those of you who stick around will be here for the long haul.

About a decade ago, I was the creative director on a game called �Shadowbane.� Shadowbane had a lot of flaws, but the vision is still something that I am very proud of. The Wolfpack founders (of which I am one) came up with something innovative � really innovative. It�s surprising how rare that is, even in the game space.

Unfortunately, the vision was also flawed. SB had tons of technical and operational issues, yes, but that�s not what I am talking about. I�m talking about the crack in the foundation of the design:

At its heart, SB was a strategy game. And strategy games can�t last forever.

To illustrate this point, let me use an analogy. Every Thanksgiving, my family gets together for a game of RISK. Only it�s not �let�s play Risk every thanksgiving� � it�s �let�s pick up from where we left last year, in the SAME game of Risk.�

The same game. The same conflict. Year after year after year:
Imagine that, in year 2, Uncle Bob starts winning.
In year 3, Uncle Bob presses the advantage. By the end of this game session, Bob basically owns the board.
Fast forward 10 years. We�re still playing that same game. Uncle Bob is now an unassailable tyrant.
The other players (i.e. everyone other than Uncle Bob) all wander away from the board to watch football or something � because they know they don�t stand a chance. If a new player joins the game, Bob snuffs them out in their infancy, and they quit immediately.

Everyone is bored. Even Uncle Bob is bored � because he hasn�t faced a challenge in over a decade. But he won�t give up by choice. That isn�t human nature.

In Shadowbane, I called this phenomenon server stagnation. The game is incredibly fun � right up until someone wins. Then, without a server reset, the game stagnates and everyone quits.

TL;DR version:

One of the key elements of strategy games is they have a win condition followed by a board reset. You start the game, you play the game, someone wins. You reset the board and start a new game.

One of the key elements of MMOs is that they are persistent. Actually, that�s not the right word, is it? They�re permanent. Players expect to play them over years, and the game world is (generally) static.

These two design goals seem diametrically opposed: the game must reset and the game must last forever.
Can they be married together? I think they can.

Eternal Heroes, Dying Worlds
What if characters are persistent/permanent � but the Worlds are not?
What if your character exists outside of any given Campaign, and can join new matches once a match is over?
This opens up a whole new world of design possibilities.
Characters are permanent, and advance over the course of many Campaigns. This gives you the feeling of persistence that we�ve come to expect from MMOs.
Campaigns, though, aren�t permanent. They still be �persistent� between game sessions � but they don�t last forever.
How long should the last? As long as the game is still fun! And they don�t all have to be the same duration. Some Campaigns could last 1 week, or 1 month. or 6 months. or 1 year.
These Campaigns aren�t just �instances�, though -- they are fully populated, continent-sized, seamless zone MMO servers. The only thing they have in common with an �instance� is that they are time-limited.
Because each Campaign is marching towards an end condition, this means that the World doesn�t have to be static anymore. We can break the Campaign into different �phases�, and adjust the rules of the game change during each phase. We can allow the players to fundamentally change the world, without fear of the long term problems this might create.
Why not make each Campaign unique? Why can�t each one have a completely unique world map (mountains, forests, lakes, castles, villages, quarries, mines, mills � you name it)? The �exploration� phase of the game can be different in each Campaign. The world will never be stale.
To that point: since each game is a stand-alone event, we can even change the rules (and win conditions) of each Campaign. We can experiment with different rules, to see which ones are more popular � and keep the game continually fresh.
So, how do you explain this?

The Hunger. The Hunger is a mysterious, destructive force that spreads from one world to the next, like an infection � twisting and corrupting everything it touches. Eventually, the Hunger consumes the World itself, and it is destroyed.

Players take the roles of Divine Champions, immortal participants in the War of the Gods. They join the Campaigns to scavenge the Dying Worlds for relics, resources and glory.

A Campaign might look like this:

Phase 1 is Spring. The Campaign map is hidden by fog of war. You are dropped (typically naked) into an unknown, deadly environment. This world is filled with the ruins of ancient castles, abandoned mines and haunted villages � which you have to explore to scavenge for weapons, tools and the resources to start building fortifications.
Phase 2 is Summer. The Hunger starts to infect the creatures. Resources become scarce. Your team claims an abandoned quarry and must fight to keep it. You use the stone to build an ancient keep, to use it as staging areas to attack their neighbors.
Phase 3 is Fall. The creatures become more deadly as the Hunger takes hold. Resources are heavily contested and transporting them is fraught with peril. Your guild frantically builds a wall around your city, as the nature of conflict shifts from smaller skirmishes to siege warfare.
Phase 4 is Winter. The environment is brutal. Warmth is hard to come by. Your kingdoms grows in strength; your neighbors falter and you demand that they swear fealty or face complete loss of the Campaign. Instead, a handful of smaller kingdoms choose to band together against you.
Phase 5 is Victory and Defeat. The World is destroyed in a cataclysmic event as the Campaign comes to an end. Your Kingdom emerges victorious, and you return to the Eternal Kingdoms to enjoy the spoils of war. Your adversaries head home, too -- to lick their wounds.

No one quits. Instead, both groups strategize on how to dominate the next Campaign.

This is the experience we are trying to create. Even if I lose, it won�t feel hollow.

We saw a similar pattern emerge during the SB beta� by accident, not design. Occasionally, changes to the game design would require us to wipe the world. Every time it happened, I was worried that players would quit the game.

Instead, we saw incredibly high peak concurrency numbers after each wipe. Every time. The �land rush� to grab the key positions in the new world was incredibly alluring. If the world map was unique, I expect it would have been even more popular.

The downside of this approach is that we don�t want the universe to feel too transitory. That�s why we added the Eternal Kingdoms: super-sized player and guild housing Worlds. Trophy rooms that you can use as a �lobby� between matches/campaigns.

(To make sure these Worlds don�t compete with the �main� game, i.e. the Campaign Worlds, we�ve completely stripped them of resource factories and anything but common reagents. If you want to fill your trophy room, you have to go out and earn it.)

This is the foundational change that we�ve made. Crowfall isn�t an MMO with a �battle ground� strapped to the end of the level treadmill. Crowfall isn�t a three-way tug of war that never resets. It�s a real blend of a strategy game and an MMO.

There�s more (a LOT more) to come, but it all starts with this basic idea:

Eternal Heroes, Dying Worlds.

Say what you will of the game, but that is a pretty unique concept for an MMO.

Personally I'm pretty skeptical and pessimistic about the idea. It sounds pretty good on paper, but I think it'll have a lot of unintended consequences.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 01:24

Impotence: Nov 8, 2010; Lipstick Apathy

This game is real and not a scam and will be great, please don't talk bad about it.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 01:31

Zarithas: Jun 18, 2008

Biowarfare posted:

This game is real and not a scam and will be great, please don't talk bad about it.

Hey at least it's (probably) not Pathfinder.

# ? Feb 3, 2015 01:43

Tenzarin: Jul 24, 2007; .; Taco Defender

Biowarfare posted:

This game is real and not a scam and will be great, please don't talk bad about it.

All aboard the goonwagon! This is the game for the hardcore pvpers!!

# ? Feb 3, 2015 01:50

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 10, 2024 05:28

Impotence: Nov 8, 2010; Lipstick Apathy

at least it's not another bad IPY fork/pathfinder online/shards online/vapourware/eq next/archeage/black desert online/albion online

the bar is so low you can accidentally trip over it

# ? Feb 3, 2015 01:56

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The MMO HMO > and now shadowbane may be back lol

«‹›13 »