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ZOA is off the rails: ZOA: Foxman and Jacobs "reminiscent of Jewish condemnation of Peter Bergson and Ben Hecht for trying to speak to Congress about Nazi threat https://twitter.com/nathanguttman/status/564942284358438912 I mean, that's nothing new, but still
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Feb 10, 2015 04:13
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Xandu posted:ZOA is off the rails: Link to press release. Shameful stuff. As if Congress isn't apprised of the Iranian threat on a regular basis. What is it that Bibi thinks he's going to be telling them that he hasn't the last quadrillion times he's done this?
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Feb 10, 2015 04:36
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[Translator notes in square brackets]: "A lesson in FEAR [Emphasis not in the original, but seems highly appropriate] by: Anonymous. It's very tempting to start a political debate with high school students. I love having debates like these in general, but students are the best. Because they're young, and our future and all of that. They know I only need is a little incentive, and will do everything to avoid studying, ergo; "Teacher, who are you going to vote for?" A trick question? I don't think so. Just like Bennet, I long since decided to stop apologizing. I think it's funny that Labor voters are considered - among my students as well - to be Israel-hating lefties. Whatever would they think if they knew that some of my friends vote for Hadash? I identify with Meretz, so I'm going to say just that, even/especially to high school students in a neighborhood considered to be a right-wing stronghold. ... - "What did she say? She's voting for Zoabi?" Meretz, I said. Haneen Zoabi is in an Arab party. - "Meretz, Avoda, left wing and Arabs are all the same," replied one of my favorite students. - "Don't you care about this country? Do you love Arabs?" I love Jews, I reply. I love you guys. You're going to be soldiers in two years from now, and I'm worried you may have to fight. Say, where's Anna? Ran off to the bathroom while I was distracted? --- Anna came to me during recess on Sunday [Israel, remember? The week starts on Sunday) to ask if I'm willing to share my political opinions. I gingerly inquired why, and she told me she took part in a conversation with her big brother and his friends, and heard a lotof new opinions. "They're from Jerusalem [Represent!] and they explained a lot of things I didn't know about Arabs - like how they don't all hate us, and how they're sometimes very deprived. But when I try to talk about this in class, they quickly go "Death to Arabs" and say there's no one to talk to. I felt as though the teacher was upset with me today because of what I said. " Even in the teachers lounge, everyone's careful. Yesterday I heard someone express reservations Buzhi, so I waited till we were alone and asked who she's voting for. "For my sins, I'm voting for Meretz," she replied with some apprehension. I laughed and informed her of a few fellow "leftists" and she sat up with a little relief. No need to hide under the table.   [One of these was in the article, the other was taken from the Meretz facebook page] "But if Meretz comes to power, the State of Israel will be destroyed" Meretz is not a party that can conceivably take control of the government, I said. Meretz can affect the nature of the coalition, and in any case, Meretz also works a gret deal in opposition. You can put the whole Palestinian thing aside. That is not the only thing that happens in our life. We can talk about economic and social issues. We can talk about raising the minimum wage, which Meretz promotes. Now they stared at me. "What do you mean economics? Do you vote based on the economy?" Certainly. I answered. You know that there's a great deal of economic inequality, your families are struggling to make ends meet, young couples cannot get an apartment. You know, all that poo poo [transliterated]. The money goes to the tycoons and centers of power or runs off to the settlements, and the distribution is unequal. "What are you talking about?" they reply. "What good is all the money in the world to us if we do not have safety? Only Bibi can give us security" But if the Iranians drop the bomb, Ramat Aviv and Ra'anana will also get hurt, I said. So why are they living better than you in the meantime ? Why can they get private lessons and better grades? Why can they go to better universities ? To the Interdisciplinary? [No idea why that's the given example of a great higher education facility] - "Their parents are just rich. What does that have to do with anything? You want the state to give us money for private lessons?" I want to share the state's resources more fairly. I want you to get better education, for the classes to be smaller , for the school to give you more. - "And then what? Nothing left for security? What do you want? A return of the Holocaust? Luckily we have Israel. Israel was only established because of the Holocaust. That's the difference between us and the Ashkenazim. We are willing to settle for less, live modestly. As long as we have safety. That's the most important thing ". *** I stood there and watched them. I had no answer. I realized I was seeing what until that day I only read about in the paper: Bibi keeping people frightened, just a little bit above the water line, waiting for the Iranian bomb, hating the whole world, because the whole world, in their opinion, simply hates us. They do not think they deserve to live peacefully and comfortably. They do not even complain that "You promised a dove". Probably because no one bothered to promise them anything. Certainly not peace. I realized the dreams I had when I was their age - to learn, to discover the world, enjoy the global village - do not interest them. They prefer to be locked down here, between the Sinai wall and the Great Wall of Jerusalem, between the safe room and shelter, as long as they can feel Jewish. And alone. Completely alone". Edit - might as well drop this here. A different high school preparing for the elections (sorry about the backlighting)   I'm sorta surprised that the Arab party posters weren't defaced. Considering that the local students have terrible taste: 
Xander77 fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Oct 4, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 12:27
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Christ this is one of the saddest things I've ever read. If you look at my post history you'll see I'm a crazy reactionary about state surveillance and all that jazz. The above paragraph encapsulates that feeling of intangible fear that I hate, and is ultimately exploited by those with political will. "Safety." Whatever that loving means. Out of curiosity, was this fearful exploitation always the norm with the Ashkenazi/Mizrahi relation, or did that come later? Aurubin fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 12:50
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Israeli politics remind me of the old LF mod elections.
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Feb 10, 2015 13:43
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Hybrid children watch the sea Pray for Father, roaming free
Reaganball Z posted:Israeli politics remind me of the old LF mod elections. Switching LF mods for Israeli politicians would be an interesting social experiment.
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Feb 10, 2015 13:44
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I disagreed with you back when you said this trip would be bad for Bibi and possibly even bad for Israeli, but it looks like you had the right idea. I'm pleasantly surprised. I also wonder if he and the ambassador are getting a lot of back-channel stuff from their Democratic Party allies about what assholes they are.
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Feb 10, 2015 15:26
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Disinterested posted:Switching LF mods for Israeli politicians would be an interesting social experiment. No see Palestine is LF and Israel is d&d, with their mods all up in LF's business and their refusal to acknowledge it's existence.
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Feb 10, 2015 16:02
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Thanks for the translation, Xander. One little peek into people's real lives and concerns in Israel and Palestine is worth more than ten pages of squabbling over ideologies or sparring over politicians' press releases. And on that note, I don't think we'll be able to gauge the real effects of Bibi's speech until we see how the national Iran policy ends up. Dems refusing to show up to his speech is certainly encouraging, but does it mean they're willing to vote against the Iran sanctions, the policy that Netanyahu is coming here to advocate for? Are prominent Dems like Pelosi choosing Netanyahu and the Israel lobby over Obama? I fear we can't say much for sure until the cards come down on an actual issue of real political importance.
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Feb 10, 2015 16:07
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:No see Palestine is LF and Israel is d&d, with their mods all up in LF's business and their refusal to acknowledge it's existence.
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Feb 10, 2015 17:02
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Xander77 posted:I too agree that Palestine fully deserves to be wiped out, never to rise again. You and probably 95% of Israel's population.
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Feb 10, 2015 19:13
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Cat Mattress posted:You and probably 95% of Israel's population. Well like 25%(?) percent of them are Arabs...
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Feb 10, 2015 19:15
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Main Paineframe posted:Thanks for the translation, Xander. One little peek into people's real lives and concerns in Israel and Palestine is worth more than ten pages of squabbling over ideologies or sparring over politicians' press releases. I think a lot of it depends on a final deal, but I'd say democrats are largely inclined right now to give Obama leeway to negotiate and hopefully come up with something satisfactory.
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Feb 11, 2015 02:39
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JPost points out an interesting angle - Netanyahu night be using this to loophole around campaigning restrictions imposed by Israeli election law.quote:Also on Tuesday, Netanyahu’s lawyers told the Central Elections Committee it was in the public interest that the premier’s planned speech to Congress be aired on television.
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Feb 11, 2015 15:11
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Feb 11, 2015 20:54
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 Well, that's how those highschoolers Xander translated look on Twitter, I suppose.
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Feb 11, 2015 21:04
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Its weird all the politics in school stuff really reminds me of the transition towards a single party system or something. Its like a cultural purge. E: do israeli kids really shout "death to arabs!" because that is some silly poo poo if so.
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Feb 11, 2015 21:48
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nopantsjack posted:Its weird all the politics in school stuff really reminds me of the transition towards a single party system or something. Its like a cultural purge. When I was in elementary school, some kid put up a sign on one of the billboards saying "no entrance to dogs and Arabs", clearly a throwback to the "no entrance to dogs and Jews" signs from Nazi Germany we had learned about in school earlier in the year.
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Feb 11, 2015 21:54
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nopantsjack posted:Its weird all the politics in school stuff really reminds me of the transition towards a single party system or something. Its like a cultural purge. Half of Israeli high schoolers believe that Arabs shouldn't be allowed to vote, so...
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Feb 11, 2015 22:23
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nopantsjack posted:E: do israeli kids really shout "death to arabs!" because that is some silly poo poo if so. Works the other way around too. I doubt children or teenagers in Gaza or South Lebanon don't have that mentality but maybe I'm too cynical.
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Feb 11, 2015 22:47
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HGH posted:Works the other way around too. I doubt children or teenagers in Gaza or South Lebanon don't have that mentality but maybe I'm too cynical. I think there is a difference between wanting people in other countries dead and wishing a (equally native) group in your own country which hasn't participated in violence against you should be also wiped out.
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Feb 11, 2015 22:56
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Absurd Alhazred posted:When I was in elementary school, some kid put up a sign on one of the billboards saying "no entrance to dogs and Arabs", clearly a throwback to the "no entrance to dogs and Jews" signs from Nazi Germany we had learned about in school earlier in the year. Israel being on of the last Fascist states in existence is proof God exists and he adores Irony. "Yeah here is this thing that happened to my people that was brutal and I hope never happens again, obviously we should do the exact same thing to other people"
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Feb 11, 2015 23:01
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Absurd Alhazred posted:When I was in elementary school, some kid put up a sign on one of the billboards saying "no entrance to dogs and Arabs", clearly a throwback to the "no entrance to dogs and Jews" signs from Nazi Germany we had learned about in school earlier in the year. Israeli Arabs need their own version of Bruce lee to kick signs like that in half.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:06
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DarkCrawler posted:I think there is a difference between wanting people in other countries dead and wishing a (equally native) group in your own country which hasn't participated in violence against you should be also wiped out. A lot of Palestinians wish for the death of all Israelis/Jews the same way a lot of Israelis wish for the death of all Palestinians/Muslims. They're both equally dumb and sad.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:08
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Doflamingo posted:A lot of Palestinians wish for the death of all Israelis/Jews the same way a lot of Israelis wish for the death of all Palestinians/Muslims. They're both equally dumb and sad. I think the principal difference is only one subset is capable of trying to make it happen.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:10
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And the other lives in a literal reenactment of the Warzaw ghetto and gets bombed every few years or is currently in the process of being ethnically cleansed while being derided as clearly genocidal in intent when appealing to the UN or ICC for help. By a state that insists on being referred to as the representative of a specific religious group.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:37
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Doflamingo posted:A lot of Palestinians wish for the death of all Israelis/Jews the same way a lot of Israelis wish for the death of all Palestinians/Muslims. They're both equally dumb and sad. We're talking about Arab citizens of Israel. Lot of them actually wouldn't want to move to independent Palestine if that happened, for example. I haven't heard of a single case of them wishing the death and oppression of their fellow citizens in anywhere close the same way Jewish citizens of Israel do, nor have they taken arms against their home country. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 00:02
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It all really reminds me of that research by I think it was a part of the UN that dealt with genocides? Where it lays out the stages of a genocide and what sort of intervention is needed. Israel and Palestine really sailed past the point at which the UN would advice sending in peacekeeping armies if it was in Africa. ah I think its from here http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/8stagesofgenocide.html not the UN i dont think. Yeah I'd put Israel and Palestine as somewhere in the late stages of Preparation.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:14
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Kajeesus posted:And the other lives in a literal reenactment of the Warzaw ghetto and gets bombed every few years or is currently in the process of being ethnically cleansed while being derided as clearly genocidal in intent when appealing to the UN or ICC for help. By a state that insists on being referred to as the representative of a specific religious group. Ah, yes. The ol', "let's sit back and let the population of the Occupied Territories more than double in a generation, so that we can be really evil and genocide twice as many!" It reminds me of Hitler's infamous call to make Europe judendoppelt. nopantsjack posted:Yeah I'd put Israel and Palestine as somewhere in the late stages of Preparation. Any day now. Those evil Zionists have been preparing ever since 1967, they're probably just minutes away from putting their plan to exterminate the Palestinians into effect.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:26
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DarkCrawler posted:I think there is a difference between wanting people in other countries dead and wishing a (equally native) group in your own country which hasn't participated in violence against you should be also wiped out. Ah, I misunderstood who you were referring to specifically, I lumped in Israeli Arabs with others, sorry about that.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:27
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The Insect Court posted:Ah, yes. The ol', "let's sit back and let the population of the Occupied Territories more than double in a generation, so that we can be really evil and genocide twice as many!" It reminds me of Hitler's infamous call to make Europe judendoppelt. Zionists are evil though, without genocide. It's an utterly morally bankrupt ideology that has not manifested in anything else but apartheid and colonialism when applied in real world. I rank it on the same level with Jim Crow and White Australia, for example. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 00:46
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The Insect Court posted:Ah, yes. The ol', "let's sit back and let the population of the Occupied Territories more than double in a generation, so that we can be really evil and genocide twice as many!" It reminds me of Hitler's infamous call to make Europe judendoppelt. How generous, that they be allowed to breed. Israel's magnanimity knows no bounds. Although I do fear what may happen if demographics slide against Israel. Previous apartheid governments have fallen when the oppressed significantly outnumber the oppressors, if things look to be heading that way it might lead to worrying proposals. I think we all remember the scandal with the Ethiopians and the depo-provera shots.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:01
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Venom Snake posted:Israel being on of the last Fascist states in existence is proof God exists and he adores Irony. Israel isn't a fascist state yet. Also, to be fair, I went to a mostly-Mizrahi elementary school, and many Mizrahis are sick of having a predominantly Ashkenazi historical moment shoved in their face all the time.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:19
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The Insect Court posted:
*The Insect Court lines up to sink one in the net. The crowd begins laughing. Oh god, his pants have fallen down. Oh god, there isn't even a net!*
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Feb 12, 2015 03:48
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nopantsjack posted:*The Insect Court lines up to sink one in the net. The crowd begins laughing. Oh god, his pants have fallen down. Oh god, there isn't even a net!* Jeez, I point out that words have meaning and some people just poo poo a brick. Maybe it's a good thing I also didn't discuss the rather troubling undertones of the "Jews are the new Nazis" rhetoric. Dolash posted:Although I do fear what may happen if demographics slide against Israel. Previous apartheid governments have fallen when the oppressed significantly outnumber the oppressors, if things look to be heading that way it might lead to worrying proposals. I think we all remember the scandal with the Ethiopians and the depo-provera shots. Yes, bizarre anti-Zionist conspiracy theories have a lot of currency within these threads. Previous thread, you had multiple posters dredging up stuff from crazy anti-semitic sites about the USS Liberty.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:39
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The Insect Court posted:Jeez, I point out that words have meaning and some people just poo poo a brick. Maybe it's a good thing I also didn't discuss the rather troubling undertones of the "Jews are the new Nazis" rhetoric. Out of curiosity, what's your take on demographic trends within Israel and Palestine? Can Israel continue to be the Jewish State if in the future the combined Palestinian and Israeli Arab populations outnumber the Jewish populations in areas administered by Israel? Is one of the side-effects of the failure of the two-state solution that the new single state would have to give up a specific religious or ethnic identity.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:45
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Dolash posted:Out of curiosity, what's your take on demographic trends within Israel and Palestine? Can Israel continue to be the Jewish State if in the future the combined Palestinian and Israeli Arab populations outnumber the Jewish populations in areas administered by Israel? Is one of the side-effects of the failure of the two-state solution that the new single state would have to give up a specific religious or ethnic identity. I'd say that the claim that the two state solution has "failed" and needs to be abandoned for some variety of one-state "solution" that is vastly less plausible than even a two-state solution is currently seems to be held exclusively by supremacists and fanatics on both sides who fantasize about a single state where their kind run everything and the other side gets what's coming to them. But I guess that's all moot because the death camps Israel has apparently been secretly building all these years are finally ready to go into operation. No doubt we'll wake up tomorrow to see footage on CNN of jackbooted IDF stormtroopers herding Palestinians by the millions into the killing chambers and all the nuts ranting about genocide will have been proven right.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:52
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The Jewish population is growing pretty fast. It's well above replacement rate. That's partly due to the ultra-Orthodox, who have 7-8 kids per household. The Ultra-Orthodox are the most fertile population in the area by a significant margin, actually. The Palestinian population is also growing but they aren't heading towards a majority within the current boundaries of Israel at all. Now if the entire West Bank were annexed that would change things. It wouldn't give the Palestinians a majority, but it would certainly make them a much bigger minority within Israel as far as citizens go. One of the big arguments the Israeli left uses to argue against the annexation of the West Bank is that there's too many Palestinians there.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:55
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I just did some fast adding and I'm getting ~6.3 million Jewish citizens to ~6 million Arab citizens(~2 and a half million in the West Bank, ~1.8 in Gaza and ~1.7 in Israel). If Im reading right, only the ~1.4 million Arabs living in non-Jerusalem Israel can even be eligible to vote in (Israeli)national elections. I don't think a one state solution is a good thing to try without a big cultural change 
treasured8elief fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 05:09
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Israel isn't Nazi Germany. Israel is Manifest Destiny America. Spoiler: Manifest Destiny America was loving monstrous.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:14
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