PYF Dangerous Chemistry: Fluorine protecting Its Modesty...

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Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

Carbon dioxide posted:

Chemistry is really very simple. It works like this:

1) Tell chemists they can't possibly synthesize some structure.
2) A chemist will find a way to make it. The crazier the compound sounds, the harder they will try*.

*= Especially if they are German.

# ? Feb 10, 2015 19:28

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 19:09

DigitalRaven: Oct 9, 2012

Carbon dioxide posted:

Chemistry is really very simple. It works like this:

1) Tell chemists they can't possibly synthesize some structure.
2) A chemist will find a way to make it. The crazier the compound sounds, the harder they will try.

That chemist's successor publishes the results posthumously.

# ? Feb 10, 2015 19:58

A Festivus Miracle: Dec 19, 2012; I have come to discourse on the profound inequities of the American political system.

You'd be surprised the nutty poo poo you can do with molecular bonds once you get a substance hot enough/enough pressure.

# ? Feb 10, 2015 20:05

insta: Jan 28, 2009

So are explosives mostly just the chemical equivalents of Prince Rupert's drops?

# ? Feb 10, 2015 20:18

Collateral Damage: Jun 13, 2009

insta posted:

So are explosives mostly just the chemical equivalents of Prince Rupert's drops?

"Things That Suddenly Want To Turn Back Into Elemental Nitrogen"

# ? Feb 10, 2015 20:25

Gyro Zeppeli: Jul 19, 2012; sure hope no-one throws me off a bridge

Collateral Damage posted:

"Things That Suddenly Want To Turn Back Into Elemental Nitrogen"

I feel like your username is very appropriate right now, to describe the effects of things turning back into elemental nitrogen.

# ? Feb 10, 2015 20:40

DigitalRaven: Oct 9, 2012

Collateral Damage posted:

"Things That Suddenly Want To Turn Back Into Elemental Nitrogen"

"What are the most exciting things to watch someone else synthesize from a safe distance?"

# ? Feb 10, 2015 20:53

Rigged Death Trap: Feb 13, 2012; BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Collateral Damage posted:

"Things That Suddenly Want To Turn Back Into Elemental Nitrogen"

*things that really want to break down into gases.*
Peroxides can be explosive too.
Or even things that react and heat up so fast they expand the gases around them catastrophically.

But as for

OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH posted:

Would Fl₃ClO₂ burn a substance such as C₄N₂ hotter than pure O₂?

Because right know we can burn Carbon Subnitride in pure O₂ at around ~5000 C... I wonder if CTF or FOOF or Fl₃ClO₂ burn Carbon Subnitride even hotter than that?

Also that seems like it'd be the most horrific green house gas "event" in mankinds history if you fired a rocket engine in atmosphere that burned Fl₃ClO₂ with C₄N₂.

A flame so hot it melts tungsten, and smoke that's the most potent greenhouse gasses in existence and toxic and carcinogenic as all gently caress.

That'd be some crazy poo poo.

Energy released/taken in depends on energy diff between reactants and products.
Fl₃ClO₂

...Yup looks like more bond energy than O2.

The answer is most definitely, but I wouldn't want to be there for uhh... let's call it empirical testing.

# ? Feb 10, 2015 20:56

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

Rigged Death Trap posted:

*things that really want to break down into gases.*
Peroxides can be explosive too.
Or even things that react and heat up so fast they expand the gases around them catastrophically.

But as for

Energy released/taken in depends on energy diff between reactants and products.
Fl₃ClO₂

...Yup looks like more bond energy than O2.

The answer is most definitely, but I wouldn't want to be there for uhh... let's call it empirical testing.

This is clearly a job for a bomb calorimeter.

# ? Feb 10, 2015 21:46

Rigged Death Trap: Feb 13, 2012; BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Deteriorata posted:

This is clearly a job for a bomb calorimeter.

But that wont measure the energy given off from the reaction of pure Trifluoro terror oxidizer with Carbon subnitride. Since Bomb Calorimeters measure energy of combustion in oxygen.
Unless you are suggesting replacing Oxygen with one of the two. Which requires one of either to be in excess.

Yeah good luck I'll be in the Bahamas observing the mushroom cloud at a safe distance.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 00:14

Mikl: Nov 8, 2009; Vote shit sandwich or the shit sandwich gets it!

I'd expect nothing less from a bomb calorimeter.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 00:42

OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH: Sep 9, 2001

Any educated guesses on just how much hotter it would burn?

# ? Feb 11, 2015 01:01

A Festivus Miracle: Dec 19, 2012; I have come to discourse on the profound inequities of the American political system.

so, how exactly would you make an engine using that hellish concoction when it would melt loving tungsten?

# ? Feb 11, 2015 03:35

Fuck You And Diebold: Sep 15, 2004; by Athanatos

A White Guy posted:

so, how exactly would you make an engine using that hellish concoction when it would melt loving tungsten?

Well you see the engine itself is made of TNT which stabilizes the compounds, furthermore...

# ? Feb 11, 2015 03:54

jetz0r: May 10, 2003; Tomorrow, our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact. Tomorrow we will lead the world, Allah willing.

A White Guy posted:

so, how exactly would you make an engine using that hellish concoction when it would melt loving tungsten?

The engine itself burning and being ejected is part of the design.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 03:56

Phanatic: Mar 13, 2007; Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

A White Guy posted:

so, how exactly would you make an engine using that hellish concoction when it would melt loving tungsten?

Ablatively-cooled nozzle?

# ? Feb 11, 2015 04:05

kastein: Aug 31, 2011; Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.

New Things I Won't Work With! http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2014/10/10/things_i_wont_work_with_peroxide_peroxides.php

(unless I'm late and someone else already linked it. Regardless, HO3H and friends are things I want nothing to do with. He mentions an HOOOOO- anion that looks pretty malevolent as well.)

# ? Feb 11, 2015 04:05

Memento: Aug 25, 2009; Bleak Gremlin

jetz0r posted:

The engine itself burning and being ejected is part of the design.

Oh so it's just a component-rich-exhaust, no worries then. Will it have a lithobraking system to arrest forward movement as well?

# ? Feb 11, 2015 04:09

Collateral Damage: Jun 13, 2009

Memento posted:

Oh so it's just a component-rich-exhaust, no worries then. Will it have a lithobraking system to arrest forward movement as well?

It's just a hybrid engine. The engine bell is part of the fuel.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 04:18

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

Memento posted:

Oh so it's just a component-rich-exhaust, no worries then. Will it have a lithobraking system to arrest forward movement as well?

Lithobraking is always an option for experimental rockets. That and sudden midair disassembly, which sounds much more likely with this concept.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 04:27

TerryLennox: Oct 12, 2009; There is nothing tougher than a tough Mexican, just as there is nothing gentler than a gentle Mexican, nothing more honest than an honest Mexican, and above all nothing sadder than a sad Mexican. -R. Chandler.

Collateral Damage posted:

It's just a hybrid engine. The engine bell is part of the fuel.

It's part of the reaction mass. It's a ~~relief~~shame zip fuels never got anywhere.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 04:38

Memento: Aug 25, 2009; Bleak Gremlin

TerryLennox posted:

It's part of the reaction mass. It's a ~~relief~~shame zip fuels never got anywhere.

And just think about the places they would have gone. The water table, the food chain, the ozone layer - the sky's the limit!

# ? Feb 11, 2015 04:46

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

kastein posted:

He mentions an HOOOOO- anion that looks pretty malevolent as well.)

is that the sound you make when you realize you've synthesized it

# ? Feb 11, 2015 04:50

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

Tollymain posted:

is that the sound you make when you realize you've synthesized it

I would think that, or oh poo poo run.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 04:51

Kinetica: Aug 16, 2011

Collateral Damage posted:

"Things That Suddenly Want To Turn Back Into Elemental Nitrogen"

Nitrogen just wants to be freeeeeee!*

*violently and messily all over the place

# ? Feb 11, 2015 07:50

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

Kwyndig posted:

I would think that, or oh poo poo run.

Its about as far as you get into Holy poo poo, before it explodes in your face

# ? Feb 11, 2015 08:15

atomicthumbs: Dec 26, 2010; We're in the business of extending man's senses.

Kwyndig posted:

That and sudden midair disassembly, which sounds much more likely with this concept.

i prefer the term "impromptu lateral staging"

# ? Feb 11, 2015 09:04

jamal: Apr 15, 2003; I'll set the building on fire

So if you can go from HOOH to HOOOH, you can make FOOOF too, right?

# ? Feb 11, 2015 09:13

Mikl: Nov 8, 2009; Vote shit sandwich or the shit sandwich gets it!

Can: probably.
Should: most emphatically not.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 09:31

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Mikl posted:

Can: probably.
Should: most emphatically not.

coward talk

# ? Feb 11, 2015 11:32

kastein: Aug 31, 2011; Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.

jamal posted:

So if you can go from HOOH to HOOOH, you can make FOOOF too, right?

Glad I'm not the only one who immediately considered that.

I wouldn't recommend it, TBH. If you do, consider trying out the FOOOOO- ion, too.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 14:32

Computer viking: May 30, 2011; Now with less breakage.

insta posted:

So are explosives mostly just the chemical equivalents of Prince Rupert's drops?

That seems like a reasonable comparison for most of the "Now with even more Nitrogen"-compounds, yes ... apart from the part where the drops are fairly robust (except for the tail).

# ? Feb 11, 2015 14:51

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

I'd watch a tv show where people create crazy chemicals and test them

# ? Feb 11, 2015 14:55

Luneshot: Mar 10, 2014

I'm so glad I'm not a chemist. It's fascinating stuff (from a physics point of view) but the stuff you work with is nuts.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 16:50

Mikl: Nov 8, 2009; Vote shit sandwich or the shit sandwich gets it!

Tollymain posted:

coward talk

"Still has all ten fingers" talk, thank you very much :colbert:

# ? Feb 11, 2015 17:17

Hexyflexy: Sep 2, 2011; asymptotically approaching one

Luneshot posted:

I'm so glad I'm not a chemist. It's fascinating stuff (from a physics point of view) but the stuff you work with is nuts.

I really wanted to do chemistry as a college student, but realised that even conc HCL scared the poo poo out of me (I'm that guy that burned his nose hair accidentally getting a whiff of it), and went off to do physics and maths instead. This was an entirely good decision.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 17:44

GenericOverusedName: Nov 24, 2009; KUVA TEAM EPIC

Luneshot posted:

I'm so glad I'm not a chemist. It's fascinating stuff (from a physics point of view) but the stuff you work with is nuts.

The overwhelming majority of chemistry is fairly mundane. Its the weird experimental stuff where you start trying to see how many angry atoms you can shove together without dying.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 17:52

Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

I have a degree in chemical engineering. My internship consisted of working in a plant that could produce millions of gallons of oleum per day. I do not currently work in my field because of my cowardice with working with that kind of absolutely terrifying poo poo.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 18:34

Islam is the Lite Rock FM: Jul 27, 2007; by exmarx

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

I have a degree in chemical engineering. My internship consisted of working in a plant that could produce millions of gallons of oleum per day. I do not currently work in my field because of my cowardice with working with that kind of absolutely terrifying poo poo.

That's weak poo poo compared to a lot of chemical manufacturing reagents. Hell you can transport that stuff as a solid and be OK. The real nasty ones are produced and consumed inline on site. Vinyl chloride, the precursor for PVC, for example generally doesn't leave a facility.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 19:07

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 19:09

Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

We were working with tank cars full of the boiling version. I agree that many precursors make oleum seem like amateur hour though. It still scared the poo poo out of me, especially after we had a pressure fitting fail and the spill proceeded to dissolve part of the factory floor (Not set it on fire, note. Just turn the tile to sludge and corrode everything metallic). No deaths or injuries and the spill was contained, but it could have been so much much worse. While it was happening it was pretty loving intense.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 19:28

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