|
The Malthusian posted:It's hard to tell through all the marketing speak, but isn't this game just Neverwinter Nights?
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 19:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 09:15 |
|
|
Have we already forgotten Baldur's Gate was a thing? A good thing, even? Not saying this will be necessarily, but... you know, I wouldn't discount it prematurely. Edit: dwarf74 posted:There seems to be a required DM and no single-player campaign. Well, poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 19:27
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:There seems to be a required DM and no single-player campaign. There might be a single-player campaign? It doesn't really say one way or the other. But the majority of campaigns seem like they'll be player-written (by one person, without any play-testing or editors). What could possibly go wrong?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 19:36
|
|
|
Bendigeidfran posted:There might be a single-player campaign? It doesn't really say one way or the other. But the majority of campaigns seem like they'll be player-written (by one person, without any play-testing or editing). What could possibly go wrong?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 19:37
|
|
|
Ningyou posted:also speaking of changeling i guess i've got a Gat Out of Hell key for someone who comes up with a Changeling-themed pun that makes me giggle Fae nobles have a really insidheous influence. I know that's not how sidhe is pronounced, but I hope it's glamorous enough that you seelie what I did there anyway. It's not Halloween but it's still pretty s-pookie.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 19:37
|
|
|
e: gently caress, it isn't worth it
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 19:45
|
|
|
Evil Sagan posted:Why won't Wizards of the Coast fellate fans of my favored setting? ummmmm well when folks say 'corporations are people' i don't think they mean it in the 'can get their gently caress on' sense 
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 19:50
|
|
|
Error 404 posted:Generic so as to offend as few people as possible. (Note: for the purposes of D&D 5th Edition, all minorities are no longer considered to be "people" for any length greater than one paragraph.)
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 19:51
|
|
|
It's about ethics in hiring shitburd consultants.Ningyou posted:ummmmm well when folks say 'corporations are people' i don't think they mean it in the 'can get their gently caress on' sense Yep. Eberron D&D, best D&D
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 19:52
|
|
|
I don't know, I'm cautiously optimistic about that game. It seems pretty much like everything I've ever wanted from a CRPG since I started roleplaying, and provided the GM tools are robust enough it could actually be fun. Like, yeah, I get the fact that the setup of "multiplayer co-op game where one player takes over as GM" was already done by Neverwinter Nights, but that one was pretty terrible.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:04
|
|
|
Error 404 posted:Yep. It's like LA Noire, but you're an 8-foot magic robot who gets into sword-fights with people on trains.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:06
|
|
|
Didn't Mask of the Betrayer work out okay? Or was that in spite of the Neverwinter Nights engine instead of because of it?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:10
|
|
|
Ningyou posted:ummmmm well when folks say 'corporations are people' i don't think they mean it in the 'can get their gently caress on' sense That's a shame. If I could literally gently caress a corporation then there would be something to like about them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:12
|
|
|
Can Eberron be played like Shadowrun because if so I could definitely get behind that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:14
|
|
|
Nancy_Noxious posted:(Even here — the only place in the web where talk about Next isn't a circle jerk about how reverence to the D&D ~*tradition~* will save gaming from oblivion — we have user Libertad — a seemingly progressive individual whose posts I enjoyed reading here and elsewhere — who seems to be a Pathfinder/Paizo/regressive mechanics enthusiast.) One of Pathfinder's developers (Jessica Price) is a feminist who frequently talks about how it's important to move beyond all-white, all-skimpy women territory in fantasy gaming. James Jacobs several years ago flat-out told a very homophobic fan (complaining about gay NPCs) that Pathfinder wasn't for him. They were one of the first major tabletop companies to have a transgender woman NPC who wasn't comic relief or a sexual fantasy. Sean K Reynolds wrote an article describing (among other things) why certain behavior towards women gamers at the table is creepy and bad. When GamerGate started up a thread on Paizo boards, it was harshly rebuked and shut down by the mods. On the flip side, Frank Trollman views heavily houseruled 3rd Edition as the only true way of gaming. He's a Marxist who has criticized racist/sexist content in gaming and said that Anita Sarkeesian has good points. Pathfinder has a history of loving spellcasters out the wazoo. Frank Trollman is almost incapable of admitting he's wrong on most issues. None of these things are contradictory with the above political views. Back in the day I used to view Pathfinder's lack of fixing 3.X's flaws as a horrible crime. It's still a problem, but over the years I've warmed up to Paizo. I'd much rather play a game with dudes who think that fighters should be bound to the laws of real-world physics, than far-right conspiracy theorists screaming about Cultural Marxism forcing transgender people in their elf games. And I think that's what's really important in the grand scheme of things. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Feb 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:15
|
|
|
Davin Valkri posted:Didn't Mask of the Betrayer work out okay? Or was that in spite of the Neverwinter Nights engine instead of because of it?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:15
|
|
|
Error 404 posted:Eberron D&D, best D&D A really odd way of spelling Mystara. Davin Valkri posted:Didn't Mask of the Betrayer work out okay? Or was that in spite of the Neverwinter Nights engine instead of because of it? Very much in spite of, NWN2 is one of the clunkiest and most awkward games I've ever played. Ratpick posted:I don't know, I'm cautiously optimistic about that game. It seems pretty much like everything I've ever wanted from a CRPG since I started roleplaying, and provided the GM tools are robust enough it could actually be fun. I just think trying to exactly recreate D&D in a video game is a fruitless and dumb endeavor. The best D&D games don't feel like playing the game digitally, they feel like video games with the license. Give me a sandbox game where you run around the Moonsea or something. Use 5E spells and some rules adapted to that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:22
|
|
|
Evil Sagan posted:Can Eberron be played like Shadowrun because if so I could definitely get behind that. Incredibly easily. The dragonamrked houses are just high-fantasy megacorporations. e: aw man, the Eberron thread dropped off the forum.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:25
|
|
|
You can always tell when someone's posted something special when you wake up and there are 71 replies to an otherwise slow-moving thread. I will say that I'm the odd one out who doesn't actually like 13th Age or feel that Strike! is going to adequately sate my desire for further 4E-style gaming which means I'm stuck either waiting for something else that catches my fancy to come along or trying to convince people to run/play more 4E which has its own frustrations to deal with, but whatever. Libertad! posted:One of Pathfinder's developers (Jessica Price) is a feminist who frequently talks about how it's important to move beyond all-white, all-skimpy women territory in fantasy gaming. James Jacobs several years ago flat-out told a very homophobic fan (complaining about gay NPCs) that Pathfinder wasn't for him. They were one of the first major tabletop companies to have a transgender woman NPC who wasn't comic relief or a sexual fantasy. Sean K Reynolds wrote an article describing (among other things) why certain behavior towards women gamers at the table is creepy and bad. When GamerGate started up a thread on Paizo boards, it was harshly rebuked and shut down by the mods. Of course Pathfinder is also the game full of fantasy racist stereotypes like conniving, thieving Gypsies and spearchucking not-Africans, ridiculous romance subsystems, and hillbilly rape-ogres. Yes, I've heard the whole "they're moving past that now" thing but you take the bad with the good, and their "moving past that" doesn't seem to involve a lot of acknowledging and/or refuting the dumb poo poo they've done in the past so much as just quietly hoping people quit bringing it up. Libertad! posted:I'd much rather play a game with dudes who think that fighters should be bound to the laws of real-world physics, than far-right conspiracy theorists screaming about Cultural Marxism imposing transgender people in their elf games. Of course you don't have to play with either is the thing. Good on Paizo for including a respectful trans character and not namedropping toxic shitbirds as consultants. Their game still sucks though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:27
|
|
|
Lightning Lord posted:I just think trying to exactly recreate D&D in a video game is a fruitless and dumb endeavor. The best D&D games don't feel like playing the game digitally, they feel like video games with the license. Give me a sandbox game where you run around the Moonsea or something. Use 5E spells and some rules adapted to that. You may be right. Actually, what I'd like to see using the D&D license (instead of what seems to be essentially a more polished Neverwinter Nights) would basically be a 4-versus-1 dungeon brawler, sort of like a D&D Left 4 Dead with one player taking over for the AI director. Basically an asymmetric game where the GM is playing an RTS throwing mooks upon mooks at the other players while the other players try to complete the dungeon goals.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:29
|
|
|
Ningyou posted:also speaking of changeling i guess i've got a Gat Out of Hell key for someone who comes up with a Changeling-themed pun that makes me giggle I heard that CCP is trying to push White Wolf into developing again. Since they're Icelandic, they've got plans for Yngling: the Gleaning, to push the timeline for the World of Darkness back to the Migration Period. I think you're going to be playing as powerful but brooding and flawed heroes. Whatever it is, it beats White Wolf at the end of their independent days. White Wolf was pretty drat desperate near the end, especially after their commercial tie-in for Yuenling: the Gleaming fell through. A shame, at least it sounded like it was going to be a cool brewery sim, and it was definitely better than what came after. But the worst part was that they were desperate enough to move ahead with Changeling: the Reaming as part of their mature content line. Rockopolis fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Feb 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:31
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:Of course you don't have to play with either is the thing. Good on Paizo for including a respectful trans character and not namedropping toxic shitbirds as consultants. Their game still sucks though. Whether their game sucks or not is not an indication that everyone who plays it wants to mash LGBTQ people and other minorities into a paste to feed the rich though. Totally equating people's taste in games with their politics is garbage of the highest order. The fact that they like or dislike a certain game is mustard on a poo poo sandwich, not the entire disgusting dish. That's where the response comes from.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:47
|
|
|
Well it's a good thing that I, at least, wasn't trying to equate those two concepts. I think the post that spurred all this on is also ridiculous but it's also like two or three pages back now and already been thoroughly poked fun at so I didn't really have much to add to it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:51
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:Of course Pathfinder is also the game full of fantasy racist stereotypes like conniving, thieving Gypsies and spearchucking not-Africans, ridiculous romance subsystems, and hillbilly rape-ogres. Yes, I've heard the whole "they're moving past that now" thing but you take the bad with the good, and their "moving past that" doesn't seem to involve a lot of acknowledging and/or refuting the dumb poo poo they've done in the past so much as just quietly hoping people quit bringing it up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 21:01
|
|
|
Lightning Lord posted:A really odd way of spelling  But yeah, I'd rather see that, or some Ravenloft. FR is to fantasy what "Dr. Quinn: Medicine Woman" is to the Western genre.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 21:18
|
|
|
Simian_Prime posted:
I've never seen Dr. Quinn, but I'm guessing that's not a good thing. MadScientistWorking posted:I actually like one of their not-Africans because its pretty much a tacit admission that D&D is an imperialistic game which is a type of commentary I wouldn't have expected from a game that does everything in stereotypes. You mean in the sense that the stereotypical game pattern is "wandering killy people attack the locals and hijack all their things for someone else/themselves," or in a more overarching thematic sense? Honest question: if/when I make a game of my own, I'd like to avoid any imperialistic implications so I don't feel terrible.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 21:26
|
|
|
I'd rather this team keeps their hands off Ravenloft. Or licenses it out to a system that handles horror well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 21:34
|
|
|
MadScientistWorking posted:I actually like one of their not-Africans because its pretty much a tacit admission that D&D is an imperialistic game which is a type of commentary I wouldn't have expected from a game that does everything in stereotypes. It's only an admission if it's intentional.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 21:36
|
|
|
Davin there is nothing wrong with admitting that the StuG III is a funny little turtle that can spew 75mm tennis balls with the best of them. It's only if you start saying the Tiger II was invincible that we start the wehraboo intervention. More armored fighting vehicles should be judged on how much they looked like funny little turtles.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 21:38
|
|
|
Davin Valkri posted:I've never seen Dr. Quinn, but I'm guessing that's not a good thing. The whole narrative of "Theres orcs living in that dungeon, kill them and take their stuff because a guy in a bar told you" is kind of messed up when you think about it. Just roll with an evil empire or pirates or something and it'll be fine.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 21:38
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:Davin there is nothing wrong with admitting that the StuG III is a funny little turtle that can spew 75mm tennis balls with the best of them. It's only if you start saying the Tiger II was invincible that we start the wehraboo intervention. How about jerrycans? Do wehraboos gush over jerrycans? Please tell me no, they're too busy gushing over paper tigers like the Sturmtiger (hah!) to gush about the actually good stuff... 
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 21:45
|
|
|
chaos rhames posted:The whole narrative of "Theres orcs living in that dungeon, kill them and take their stuff because a guy in a bar told you" is kind of messed up when you think about it. Just roll with an evil empire or pirates or something and it'll be fine. It's really the fact that, in D&D-land, there are only two good Orcs. Orcs touched with the blessing of civilization or dead orcs. Casual observers will say "what's the big deal, they're just monsters" but anyone who puts even an ounce of thought into it will see a troubling pattern of murdering sapient beings because of their race and alleged savagery which is something that has happened in real life to human beings and which is still believed to be righteous by racists, even if they have toned down the overt nature of their rhetoric.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 21:50
|
|
|
Davin Valkri posted:You mean in the sense that the stereotypical game pattern is "wandering killy people attack the locals and hijack all their things for someone else/themselves," or in a more overarching thematic sense? Honest question: if/when I make a game of my own, I'd like to avoid any imperialistic implications so I don't feel terrible. EDIT: Also, I say used to because they completely ditched that mechanic because it didn't work gameplay wise. moths posted:I'd rather this team keeps their hands off Ravenloft. Or licenses it out to a system that handles horror well. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Feb 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 21:58
|
|
|
Davin Valkri posted:How about jerrycans? Do wehraboos gush over jerrycans? Please tell me no, they're too busy gushing over paper tigers like the Sturmtiger (hah!) to gush about the actually good stuff... Yeah, see, that's the same thing as thinking the StuG III was an efficient infantry support and assault gun. You'll never find a wehraboo jerking off to the StuG. It's always the charismatic feline megafauna.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 22:00
|
|
|
Evil Sagan posted:It's really the fact that, in D&D-land, there are only two good Orcs. Orcs touched with the blessing of civilization or dead orcs. Casual observers will say "what's the big deal, they're just monsters" but anyone who puts even an ounce of thought into it will see a troubling pattern of murdering sapient beings because of their race and alleged savagery which is something that has happened in real life to human beings and which is still believed to be righteous by racists, even if they have toned down the overt nature of their rhetoric. Keep calm and play Eberron. for reals though, in spite of being very D&D, a lot of that stuff is turned around in interesting ways in Eberron. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 22:03
|
|
|
Error 404 posted:Keep calm and play Eberron. Just to expand on this: orcs in Eberron founded one of the major druidic orders, swore ancient oaths to defend the world from anything that might come crawling out of the hellholes near their lands, and consider half-orcs to be favored sons/daughters because they're the "best of both worlds" as it were. It's amazing what you can do with orcs when you throw out the "orc == Chaotic Evil" concept. Eberrowns.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 22:11
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:Just to expand on this: orcs in Eberron founded one of the major druidic orders, swore ancient oaths to defend the world from anything that might come crawling out of the hellholes near their lands, and consider half-orcs to be favored sons/daughters because they're the "best of both worlds" as it were. Eberron also has elves as damaged, genetically engineered abductees from another dimension, who express the central concept of death-cult ancestor worship in multiple distinct ways, from lichifying Grandma to extreme In conclusion, Eberrowns.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 22:20
|
|
|
For me, this discussion is interesting, because it's always seemed like Orcs were more like a stand-in for the Mongol horde; the imperialists, not the victims, as it were.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 22:46
|
|
|
Evil Sagan posted:It's really the fact that, in D&D-land, there are only two good Orcs. Orcs touched with the blessing of civilization or dead orcs. Casual observers will say "what's the big deal, they're just monsters" but anyone who puts even an ounce of thought into it will see a troubling pattern of murdering sapient beings because of their race and alleged savagery which is something that has happened in real life to human beings and which is still believed to be righteous by racists, even if they have toned down the overt nature of their rhetoric. I don't know, it just seems to me that a complex and vibrant civilization isn't mutually exclusive with being an absolute goddamn terror to the other people around you. The Aztecs, the Mongolians & the Romans were all impressive civilizations with fascinating cultures and complex mythologies and all sorts of other great poo poo but that didn't mean that it didn't suck to be their neighbor. E;FB
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 22:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 09:15 |
|
|
MadScientistWorking posted:After learning more about Ravenloft it strikes me as pretty much what Forgotten Realms did except for horror. Not exactly. Ravenloft is basically Hammer film Arkham Asylum, where especially terrible vampires, Frankensteins, ghosts, and ghost vampires are shut off from the rest of D&D in a Technicolor demiplane. You have huge named NPCs, but they're stuck there and they're villains. And everything is compartmentalized and themed to the principal NPC. You have not-Transylvania where not-Dracula lives, but it doesn't overlap or generally interact with the ghosts of the not-Scottish moors. So while it's an anthology setting like Forgotten Realms, there's a lot stronger theming between a particular villain and their dedicated "punishment zone." The huge NPCs are a part of the setting, not Ed Greenwood's Mary Sues and Bob Salvatore's gaming group.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 22:52
|
|